censorship

[proplever]

Sorry Woomera. But some things really need saying here.

Yesterday I posted a thread regarding VB and a couple incidents they were rumoured as having. And this is a rumour network, corect?

You decided to lock the thread, and make some churlish comments about me knowing better?

Well, you just gotta wonder there, if the VB was replaced by QF, just how long and hard the thread would have lasted. A great deal longer, I would think.

To be quite frank, I'm sick and tired of your partisan attitude, Woomera. You jump on the band wagon every time a QF bashing session comes about, yet, as soon as VB looks suspect what happens?

"Click"

Pathetic censorship. I'm outa here.

[OneDotLow]

Yeah, bring back the VB thread!!!! It was an entertaining read.

As ppRune suggests, its a rumour network, and if those rumours just happen to be true... then so be it!!!

Surely then, if these incidents ACTUALLY HAPPENED then it is in the best interest of everyone if they are reported here...

Woomera???????

VB dont need YOUR help to get their little business going...

[tobzalp]

I wonder how long till this thread gets deleted too. Don't know how many people saw the thread about the crap admin by woomera that was deleted within an hour and never came back.

[Buster Hyman]

I think Woomera does a sterling job, especially as this forum (Dunnunda) is probably the most volatile of all on Pprune!

I don't always agree with some of the editing and I've had my fair share of "arguments", but if you are truly a professional, you accept judgements as they come, especially if your thread is about a "landing safely with wheels up story"!:rolleyes: You can always PM someone about your differences rather than resort to a slanging match on every thread. I've done that with someone here & we've come to an amicable agreement about our differing opinions. Try it, makes the whole experience rather more pleasant!;)

[proplever]

Buster, I'm not going to entertain your comments seriously. If you return to the thread in question and reread it you will understand that "landing with the wheels up" was not a part of it.

By making such comments you are displaying your intellect or lack therof and denigrating your own argument. That goes for the other clowns who responded in turn with quite ridiculous comments. But I can't reply to their stupidity, can I, Woomera?

This thread is about censorship by Woomera. Not about professionalism, or accepting judgements, or even about "landing with the wheels up" (for God's sake Buster!).

This is about partisan censorship. Have a think about it....

[DJ737]

Pathetic censorship. I'm outa here.

Still here?

DJ737

The Roo Rooter:E :ok:

[Buster Hyman]

Ooops! My mistake then...how did it go? "737 made a safe landing after the tower told them their wheels were still up with about 100ft to go" or something like that...I'll concede to your semantics then!:rolleyes:

Partisan censorship eh? All depends on where you are coming from I suppose, but hey, why denigrate my intellect any further? Oh, and thanks for getting personal & demeaning yourself!:hmm:

[proplever]

No guessing what sorta censorship you'd like then, is there DJ?

And Buster...? You still don't get it do you? I was asking for more info. Not telling the whole story..... RTFQ.

Woomera??? Woooommmera???

[Buster Hyman]

So there!:p

Yes, I'm well aware that you were asking a question, but why would a "pilot" ask such a stoopid question?...GAFLWY!

[Tarkeeth]

Woomera handels the lists with a guiding hand which is why I stay,
his postings of industry info and updates is a godsend.

When some one lists his homepage as"airdisaster.com.au"and Dawf tossing as his intrest you have to wonder,eh proplever.
Humour-maybe but mature? No

[Woomera]

Proplever. Whilst I agree PPRuNe is a rumour and news network, unsubstantiated, potentially malicious, somewhat sensationalistic bar talk "rumours" against any carrier – Qantas, Virgin or your local charter operator - are not acceptable.

Your post lacked substantiation and integrity, as suggested by everyone who responded to the thread.

As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, to elicit certain reactions.

Yes, you may post rumours on PPRuNe, but ensure they have credibility and integrity.

“Chinese whispers” are not acceptable.

Woomera

[proplever]

Thanks for your reply Woomera, but it really doesn't address the centre issue.

That is: Why does it seem that your censorship is always partisan in favour of Virgin?

I should add here, despite the peanut gallery's comments, the source of the information was reliable, and these "rumours" (not "chinese whispers") seem to have been circulating through my carrier for a while now. But the problem is; you closed the topic before anyone had any chance of substantiating them.

Given that this is the case; I would ask you politely to reopen that thread....

[Whiskery]

You still here proplever ! ;)

[404 Titan]

proplever

As a general rule ask yourself if you are prepared to put you real name to the thread. If you aren’t, please don’t ask Pprune to wear the legal responsibility if the thread should go all pear shaped. You can be a real hero when you hide behind a fictitious name, but when you use your real identity, I am sure you would watch carefully what you say. You also say that Woomera is “always partisan in favour of Virgin”. I have to totally disagree with your comment there as I have seen him delete just as many posts on Qantas and other operators on a fairly regular basis if the accusations aren’t substantiated with hard evidence.

[HotDog]

proplever,
But the problem is; you closed the topic before anyone had any chance of substantiating them.
If there is anybody here who can substatiate your rumours, I'm sure they will do so by opening a separate thread.

[proplever]

Thanks for your reply 404, and I'll take in the spirit in which it is meant.

But isn't that the idea of this forum? Anonimity? Rumours? There are no hero's here. If there are, perhaps they are self proclaimed...?

This is about a thread which was locked prior to running it's full course, thereby creating what I would term partisan censorship.

Let me rephase the point that I am trying to make here. Is there some reason that Woomera (read Pprune, Danny et al) would have to censor the information that I posted? I had heard a rumour (It was put to me as fact though...), and I posted a thread here in an attempt to confirm or deny this.

Before it ran it's full course, the twilight fringe made their humerous additions, and Woomera closed the thread.

Please explain to me why (especially if these incidents ARE true), why they need to be censored?

[404 Titan]

proplever

If Woomera thought there was a potential for Pprune and Danny to be sued for something that has been written here, he as an obligation being the moderator of this forum to delete it. If you put your name to it then the legal responsibility could be passed to you. Before doing this though I would strongly suggest having a lot more hard evidence than just what someone has said to you as being fact as I can assure you that you would find yourself in court faster than you can say “I’m innocent”.

[Woomera]

proplever. You just aren't getting the message! :*

Firstly, let me assure you that neither I, nor any other Woomera (nor any other PPRuNe Moderator) has any bias for (or against) Virgin, Qantas or any other carrier, operator or person. Your allegation is simply totally unfounded. Moderating PPRuNe is based solely on the spirit and letter of the rules to which you agreed when you joined PPRuNe.

Secondly, in our society - whether in PPRuNe or in the wider community - you can't make the type of serious, malicious, irresponsible, unsubstantiated allegations you made, without being called to account. I note you prefer a cloak of anonymity, however at law the PPRuNe site owners and publishers are solely responsibility for your statements.

You stated: "you closed the topic before anyone had any chance of substantiating them." I suggest that had you posted your substantiating evidence in your first post, you may have received a far better response from others who posted and the thread may not have been closed.

Woomera

[Buster Hyman]

If it was a defamatory post about your piloting skills, or lack of & named you personally, would you be happy for it to be discussed here?

BTW, I'm happy to be in the peanut gallery, because if you haven't got a sense of humour in the Australasian airline industry, then you just don't get it!;)

[Next Generation]

proplever

Anyone care to shed any light?

Yes. You are a entitled to your own opinion, I guess. (Unsubstantiated, of course !)

[proplever]

Jeez. All these semantics.

Woomera, you have just made my point for me. I made NO allegations! Indeed, YOU seem to be alleging that I did....??? I simply passed on a rumour, and asked for verification.

YOU passed judgement summarily that I said something improper.

If as you state that PPrune is legally liable, then why was the thread locked, and not deleted entirely..? It's defamatory statement is still there for all to see. Surely you can see that this defeats logic, and I believe YOU don't get it!

And Buster, please mate, spare me the paranoia. I made no suggestions regarding your individual piloting skills. Or do you know something I don't?

Additionally Buster, my company has been discussed on this forum in a defamatory light a zillion times over, and yet Woomera hasn't moved a finger to stop it. So why now?

And finally Woomera. Are you going to censor me, and let NG get away with his last comment towards me? Because, I might just hold pprune liable for it.

Christ, thats how stupid this is getting, and it goes to prove my original point - that is that censorship on this forum is totally partisan.

[HotDog]

Proplever, take a Bex and have a nice lie down.:suspect:

[tobzalp]

I think that propleveller has a point however.

[Wizofoz]

Woomera,

I think you guys do a great job generally, but may I suggest you try to take critisism a little less personally and perhaps use it to do some self analysis? Your reaction to suggestions of bias is usually just a blanket "No we aren't!!". Well, I'm sorry, but even I percieve some inconsistencies in the way the boards are moderated.

I'll give you an example:-

On another thread QFandlovinIT made an absolutley stupid comment calling VB pilots "Rejects" basically because they didn't work for QF. Absolute toss obviously, and the responses we're appropriatley anti this idiot.

However, the ever lovable Kap M couldn't resist and put in this little gem:-

Good point, QFandlovinIT, Australian examples of "garbage in = garbage out (ie. people who had previously been rejects, but were taken on in desperation) causing failure of the airlines that employed them, are Ansett, East-West, Australian aka TAA, and IPEC...... RIP the lot of them.

Saying that me and all my compatriots were similarly "Rejects" and responsible for our company going broke!! Insulting and ridiculous.

The result? You (I'm refering to Woomera as an entity!) deleted the anti VB QFandlovinIT post, but left the Anti AnyoneKapMdoesn'tlike post alone. Consistant? Also, the responses to the original post got pretty anti QF, but went unmolested.

I'm not suggesting intentional bias. But are you beeing pro-activley analytical in ensuring you do remain fair and even in your adjudication?

[Buster Hyman]

Or do you know something I don't?
Yes, my piloting skills are abysmal, I wouldn't even get on an aircraft I was scheduled to fly, they're that bad!

Paranoia? I don't think so, just a hypothetical question you avoided answering...or...are you censoring your own answers?:rolleyes:

Start looking at the threads from a legal perspective if that helps. Perhaps you should PM Woomera about the defamatory threads that have upset you or put your company in a bad light & see how Woomera answers them.

[PPRuNe Towers]

No member of the Woomera team works for either of the companies being tossed around. I heard it myself from the Townsville refueller.

I'm sorry: That last sentence should have read. I recruited them myself from here in the UK by inviting those with a sound, profound and wise posting history to join.

As we did with all our 50 plus moderators on the site.

Other than that, splendid thread - do carry on with the banter:p :p :p

Regards
Rob Lloyd
(Real name even if lacking time for a real life)

[proplever]

S'Ok Buster, Mine aren't that flash either. Especially the day after the night before!

But I think I did answer your question... That is, my company has been discussed here in a derogatory and defamatory light a zillion times over. Allegations have been consistently made about us as pilots. Yes, we have defended ourselves, but my point still is - the bias in censorship that exists on this forum.

I acknowledge the legal problem, but how 'bout a level playing field here...?

[Buster Hyman]

Ok then proplever, I don't think I can contribute any more to this. I think you understand my point &, whilst I don't quite think you're correct, I understand where you are coming from. I have no problem with one defending one's company, strewth mine copped a beating just prior to going under, but in relation to the initial thread it just struck me like a piece of sensationalist journalism. The landing bit I mean, hence my "peanut gallery" response.

I'll leave you to it.:ok:

Besides, I now know why I've never been asked to be a Moderator!:{

[GA Driver]

On a similar note of censorship, I was reading through the forums the other morning to find some information on a be76 that had lost it's nose wheel (rego and operating company were listed) also seen some piccies of the whole thing on the news. Definately was fact, no rumour.

Now the post seems to have disappeared?

[Woomera]

No Woomera is infallible. We can but try, often in a very trying environment........

I too, like all Woomeri, have to work for a living and don't have hours to spare every day, reading every post of every thread. Some posts which arguably could or should be moderated, get missed.

Wizofoz, I never take criticism personally. Hide of a Rhino! I'm here solely to moderate according to the rules of PPRuNe.

GA Driver. Which thread are you talking about? You can click on the "Report this post" link and it'll come thru to me so I can investigate.

Buster. You wouldn't be happy with the Woomera Award rate of pay......... Can't even buy a cold beer on a hot day on the pay given to Danny's little helpers!

On the subject of alleged bias, no Woomera works for either Qantas or Virgin.

There have been instances where a particular Woomeri may hold a strong view on a subject and post under their own user name - as I have occasionally done. In those few cases, that Woomeri will leave the moderation of that specific thread, to another Woomeri who may hold more "neutral views". I believe this guarantees PPRuNe's impartiality.

Yes, please carry on the banter. It's entertaining!

http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0903/spezial/Fool/duel.gif

Woomera


"You can please some of the people, some of the time. You can never please all the people, all the time"

Manual of the Order of Woomeri

[Planned Root]

What's wrong with dwarf tossing? :O

[Hudson]

Yes - I too wondered why the accident to the Duchess at Essendon vanished from the Pprune radar seemingly within hours of being posted. Yet a similar accident to a PA 28 at Bankstown under the GA forum, is left in. Maybe the EN operator has a Woomera on his staff!! ;)

[compressor stall]

Or the person who posted it in the first place removed it.

It would be a lot better place if everyone took the attitude that they would only type on here what they would say to anyone else in person.

Keep up the good work Woomeri. Without it, there will be no PPRune when danny gets another law suit!

CS

[Wizofoz]

Comp stall et al,

I totally agree. But, is it just me, or can you be as insulting to people or groups here as you want, as long as they are not likely to sue Dany?

[Kaptin M]

PL, if I may wade in here...as much as this is a Rumour Network, before ALL of that, it is a Professional Pilots website, and quite honestly the stuff you posted eg., "jet upset", "lost 5,000' due to turbulence" and, "{a B737 was) told to "go around" by the tower at 100ft because their gear wasn't down." is quite frankly, not plausible.
Okay, the loss of 5,000' IS - but it would have made headlines nationwide had it REALLY been as dramatic as you attempted to portray it.

The gear not down scenario is totally unrealistic, as there are MULTIPLE systems incorporated into the B737 that would simply not allow the aircraft's crew to proceed to such an altitude without being aware.

Anyone can spruke what appears to be a good "rumour", but unless it contains some reasonable backbone of credibility, it may well qualify only as amateurish, malicious gossip - a LEGALLY indictable, costly charge - not ONLY for Danny, but for YOU.

We ALL love a good, juicy, tale, but honestly - from a PROFESSIONAL PILOT'S point of view - that one was too "over the top".

Best Regards,
K.M.

p.s. I agree - the Woomera's playing field ALWAYS seems in an upward tilt to many of my posts!!

[Spad]

Hmmm... I see that the 2nd thread on the Aerostar crash off Byron Bay has disappeared. Something I said perhaps, Big W?