Bbc2 Thurs

[hairyclameater]

Heads up

BBC2 Thurs 29th "inventions that changed the world" , this week "the jet"

unfortunately its hosted by that pr@#k Clarkson.

[Airbedane]

I just know I'm going to regret this, but what's wrong with Clarkson? I thought he was a genuine guy with a mischievous sense of humour and a strong mind. He certainly stands up for what he believes in, and also admits when he's wrong and/or can't hack it - throwing up in the F16 got my vote, especially the aftermath on the tarmac.

A

[vintage ATCO]

F15, Airbedane, F15. Great bit of TV.

Yes, I think Clarkson is mostly harmless, I even read his column in the Sunday Times . . . . :eek:


VA :D

[You want it when?]

This new series of his is OK, it's certainly better than his chat show ever was.

Looking forward to the show as I'm sure to learn something new and I feel it will be a bit of Clarkson government bashing as they trade the design of the jet engine for er.. not a lot at the end of the WWII.

[AerBabe]

Clarkson has been referred to as "thinking woman's crumpet". Thing is, if you think about it too much, you realise whoever said that was wrong. He can be very funny though and I will be watching on Thursday!

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Did anyone see Clarkson last Thursday on Beeb 2? All about computers?

Having spent all my working life in the Computer industry, I was looking forward to it. He started well, with good insight of Babbage and the Difference Engine, then spent perhaps rather too long at Bletchley Park on code cracking machines (which were not true computers - more like electronic calculators). The action then moved immediately to the United States and the birth of modern computing.

He missed out what is IMHO the most important step in the development of the modern computer - the work done by Alan Turing, Kilburn, and Williamson and the brilliant team at Manchester University just after WW2 - mainly drawn from the brilliant scientists and technicians who had worked at Bletchley during the war.

This team constructed the world's very first stored program electronic computer - the 'Manchester Mk 1', or 'Baby', using cathode ray storage devices (Williamson Kilburn Tubes - licenced to IBM for use in their early computers). This is the first computer that actually works in the same way that modern general-purpose computers work using an internally stored interactive program rather than a static ‘pegboard’ or ‘program paper tape’ - it truly is the 'Baby' from which the modern computer industry grew. The British Computer Society have built a working replica of 'Baby', which can be seen at the Manchester Museum of Science and Industry. All electronic ‘brains’ prior to ‘Baby’ were task-dedicated by their fixed programs and were little more than purpose-built calculators.

When Williamson was invited to America by IBM in the early '50s, he noted that all around the IBM comlex in NY, on desks, doors etc was embazoned the word 'THINK!'

He gave a talk to assmbled IBMers about the 'Baby', and when asked how two men and a dog in Manchester England had managed to build a stored program computer while the likes of mighty IBM hadn't yet managed it he said:
"Well, we invented this storage device, then without THINKING about it we went ahead and built a computer around it to test it".

No IBM bosses were in the room, so it brought the house down :)


Aerbabe

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Clarkson has been referred to as "thinking woman's crumpet". Thing is, if you think about it too much, you realise whoever said that was wrong. He can be very funny though and I will be watching on Thursday.
------------------------------------------------------------

Aplogies if you knew this, Aerbabe (I'm an old fart so I was around back then), but it's a derivation of the 1960s term applied to Joan Bakewell - the 'thinking man's crumpet'.

Joan presented cerebral programs on BBC2, and was (still is) a very attractive lady. In those days, it was unusal for a woman to present a 'seriou' program. And attactive women on TV were usually expected to be a bit 'dumb'

SSD

[Airbedane]

VATCO,

When I said F16, what I really meant was............thanks for the correction, mate,

Airbedane :O :O

[sycamore]

VATCO, remember now, "A" was a Jaguar/Harrier pilot , and they all wore rose -tinted underwear......!!

[vintage ATCO]

Oh, are you watching the prog currently on Channel 5 - The History of Underwear? Very educational. ;) :D

[astir 8]

Any bets that the fact that the Germans were the first to fly a jet aircraft will be conveniently forgotten?

[No comment]

The German achievement was mentioned briefly. Not a bad programme in the end. Nice to have a presenter genuinely interested in aviation, even though a lot of people despise the guy!

[vintage ATCO]

I thought it was quite well done. Nice mention of Concorde too.


VA

[BLUE SKY THINKER]

vintage ATCO.....

I quite agree.

[Reichman]

Me Too.

Quite refreshing to see someone in the public eye not ashamed to champion British achievements.

If more people stood up to the PC crowd, like celebrating the fact that we WON two world wars - and didn't start them. And the fact we did invent the jet engine. And that we did give all the technology about supersonic flight to the Spams as payment for Lend Lease. And computers, telephones, TV, etc etc....:ok:

Reichman

[astir 8]

Apologies, they did mention Mr Heinkel's aircraft - and even showed a picture of an Me 262

But the Rover turbine car was totally out of context.

But I see quite enough of the inside of airliners without having to watch Clarkson sitting moaning in First Class.

But I'll watch him puking in an F15 any time :ok:

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

But I see quite enough of the inside of airliners without having to watch Clarkson sitting moaning in First Class.

Quite so. It would have ben more realistic if he'd gone economy, with occasional visits to the front of the aeroplane to show how the other half live, rather than the other way round.

I thought the program was a bit light on fact. Whittle's company was never named and there were no deatials of what they developed and what later came out of the likes of Rolls Royce, Bristol de Havilland etc. How did the government 'take his company and the jet engine off him'? The post-war Labour government's giving for free the technonlogy and the engine to both USA and Russia was only briefly touched on (I don't think giving it to Russia was even mentioned). And a little bit (not much - it's only entertainment after all) of explanation of the technology wouldn't have been out of place for the lay audience - especially the difference between early turbojets and modern fan engines (that's why that cowling looked so empty, Jeremy - it was just the fan casing).



SSD

[wub]

Clarkson cast a slur on the Tahitians when he said that they had murdered Captian Cook; it was in fact the Hawaiians who did the deed.

[hairyclameater]

Still dont like the man, pompous, sarcastic, self indulgent, racist, rude, untidy, tall, curly haired, ill informed (unless its thrashing the hell out of a family saloon to see what it can do), wears jeans with sports jacket, great easy job(s) and opprtunities but STILL f'#!"@@ing moans about how hard done to he is, thinks hes funny blah blah blah.

Script was pretty crap too "naming the comet after something that crashes to earth in a fireball" no Jezza, that is a meteorite, plus Im sure any relatives of anyone lost in the Comet crashes or indeed any other air crash appreciated that one!

I just think hes one of those spoiled brat presenters who just because they can wheel spin a ford fiesta in a cloud of smoke think they're entertaining presenters with something worthwhile to say.

(Sound of soap box being put back in cupboard)

[DamienB]

I'll have to with the nay-sayers on this one too, thought it was a load of crap, often highly misleading and seemed to have been put together purely in order for him to hear himself spouting various 'clever' remarks. The only good bits were the remarks bemoaning the loss of Concorde, and the lovely snidey bit in the A340 cockpit along the lines of "...but when you've left the USA and re-entered the free world...".

Don't know what to make of him really - occasionally he does something decent (the speed series, the VC programme) but piles out dross like this as well.

[BEagle]

Wel, you moaning lot, I thought it was a good programme. Jeremy Clarkson presented it in his own humorous way and it's refeshing to have someone who is non-PC, scruffy, a bit overweight and who isn't a media-luvvie presenting such programmes.

Airbedane - why not get JC over to Old W to do a programme about the Collection?

[Airbedane]

I'd love to Beags. In fact, there was talk within the Collection a year or so ago of getting him into the Boxkite for a hop or two, but I'm not sure why it fell through the net - I'll check.

On the subject of this weeks prog, I have to say, I wasn't too impressed. The recent progs have been good, informative and humorous, but the one on the jet was sadly lacking in substance. However, it'll not stop me liking the guy, or watching next week!

BTW HCE, the attributes of:

'pompous, sarcastic, self indulgent, racist, rude, untidy, tall, curly haired, ill informed, wears jeans with sports jacket, great easy job(s) and opprtunities but STILL f'#!"@@ing moans about how hard done to he is, thinks hes funny blah blah blah.'

were an asset on all the fighter Squadrons I've served on, so he can't be that bad.....can he..?

Airbedane.

[hairyclameater]

Mmmmm, so they are the attributes that made the RAF the great fighting force it once was eh A ??
I presume you were a single seater - should have expected that from you lot!!

If he went to OW he would probably bemoan the lack of leg room in the box kite or the fact that the wren does 0-60 in only, well it doesnt actually do 60 but either way he'd probably throw up.

Nah, leave him on the ground in his leggy sports cars squealing round corners and queue jumping to get a Ford GT40!!

Just realised his initials are the same as my favourite expletive when I see his ugly mug on the box!

[Airbedane]

Too right it was single seat - would you share a cockpit with anyone like that.........?

;) :D ;)

A

[Reichman]

I'm with Beags on this one.

I think a lot of you are missing the point. He's giving out a bit bit of historty that someone with no idea will understand and find interesting, hence a bit of humour. Can you imagine how dull and mind blowingly boring a programme about the development of the jet engine would be? I can because I had to sit through lectures about it during Basic Flying Training.

I thought the bit about the naming of the Comet was hilarious - but then, I am warped.

I also think it's unfair to label him racist. That's what PC idiots mistake for patriotism and pride in being English.

Reichman

[BLUE SKY THINKER]

Reichman..... Quite!

And let's all not forget (dare I say it) that there is supposed to be an element of entertainment in such programmes, which I think was provided.

[BEagle]

Jeremy Clarkson also showed how to make the best 'Mess Cannon' I've ever seen on an earlier programme in the series.

Spolied brat presenter? No - just someone with a wicked, nay 'aircrew' sense of humour and genuine enthusiasm for the subjects he reports on. His 'Meet the neighbours' series was excellent - the piece in the replica East German hotel was hilarious.

His 'comment' in the Sunday Times is a weekend highspot.

And what did you expect in a TV programme about the jet engine? A programme about thermodynamics?

Dress him up in period leather flying coat, gauntlets and goggles and take him for a hop in the Boxkite, Airbedane! But perhaps the BBC luvvies might worry about his insurance...??

[AerBabe]

Why oh why oh why did he have to walk round New York in damp clothes? :yuk:

Apart from that, I really enjoyed it. Yes he played to the cameras, yes he sat up the front (wouldn't you if you had 5 days on an aircraft, were that tall and someone else was paying for it?) and yes he whinged and moaned. But more people are likely to watch that than some dry, fact-packed lecture on jet engines. That has to be a Good Thing.

[JDK]

May I make a few remarks?

OK then.

I don't have a TV (to the amamazement of the Licencing bods) and it's interesting that though there are more aviation progs apearing on it, none of the comments posted on this forum (and others) have so far made me feel I'm missing anything much.

I don't like Clarkson, but I can't comment on the prog or his (specific) performance, so I won't. However, from the other occasions I have been exposed to his 'skills' he is clearly someone who has a reputation for being a wit by being rude. Very easy, very good TV, very light, worth missing (IMHO).

However, Airbedane saying he's like a fighter pilot is interesting, as while that may be true, that don't make him any good with words. I find many drivers, airframe like artists (or indeed footballers) - fun to see what they do, but frankly unable to articulate anything worthwhile about it. There are, of course, exceptions, but pilots generally are bad pundits, as are artists and footballers in my experience. (Perhaps a good teddy containing debate from some drivers here?)

Bad lectures don't excuse TV light. I'm intelligent enough to expect to be streched as well as entertained, and frankly it rarely happens. When I eat, I don't want baby pap or fast food because it's 'what most people will like' and I expect, but don't often get the same from the entertainment media.

Just my 2d!

BTW, when are you pommy xenophobes going to decide if you are British or English? And If English, I'll leave it to your celtic fringe to point out what they've achieved aeronautically!

Comments?:p

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

However, Airbedane saying he's like a fighter pilot is interesting, as while that may be true, that don't make him any good with words. I find many drivers, airframe like artists (or indeed footballers) - fun to see what they do, but frankly unable to articulate anything worthwhile about it.

Oh, come now. There's loads of superb aviation literature from the pens of pilots. Not just top writers like Gann, Bach, and Lecomber, but lots and lots of others in books and magazines. Not many glider pilots in there, though. Too obsessed with competition to notice the beauty, perhaps?

Footballers I wouldn't know about. But I suspect, in UK at least, thatmost are not very highly educated and therefore not particularly articulate.

SSD

[JDK]

OK, I was being controversial. :cool:

Footballers. Hmmm. Insert sportsperson of taste. As an Aussie, I admire many Aussie Ashes players. The number that can write or speak well of the game? Few, very few. A special palm to Steve Waugh for for taking a lot of books to say nothing. Artists? Oh dear.

Perhaps it makes more sense put the other way around. If I want good authoratative comment, I wouldn't naturally go for an RAF Squirt driver (sorry) but someone like Gunston (or indeed our own Aerohack...)

Looking for more incoming teddies. Isn't that OK if Clarkson does it?

;)

[Airbedane]

Beags,

You've certainly hit on an interesting anomalie with the BBC and insurance. At Old Warden's 17th December show, a presenter from the World Service interviewed me and others. The plan was to take her up in the Tiger Moth and make it part of the presentation - she had a PPL and flew a permit arcraft as a hobby, so there shouldn't have been any problems.

Hooooweveeeeerrrrrr, the BBC wouldn't accept any of the Shutleworth pilots as fit persons to fly one of their staff. It seems that being a test pilot for a major UK Company, a commercial pilot, an instructor pilot, or ex-RAF aircrew is just not good enough anymore. As some of the Shutleworth pilot's work for the airlines, how do they reconcile that? In fact, the same pilot's may have flown JC.......

And before everyone gets too verbal about my 'fighter pilot' comments above, they were meant as a light hearted input to a light hearted thread, lets keep it at that level, please.

A

[TD&H]

Airbedane's Fighter pilots' assets....

Thinks?... Now if I can show all those assets too (not difficult, most pilots I know can manage most of them) then will Airbedane be willing to take me up in the Boxkite? Can't promise an hour's entertaining programme on the Beeb, but might manage half a page in local parish magazine.

NO! I hear! Ah well. I enjoyed the programme, especially as it showed the misery that so much of modern day travel can be, even when slumming it in first class. And yes his comment about Concorde rings true, we have gone backwards since October. Have the cufflinks too.

[JDK]

Oh, I'd never take a pilot seriously, not even Pontious!:p

[witchdoctor]

Well, I know Clarkson isn't everybody's cup of tea, and he did perhaps hijack the programme a little for some Government and Yank bashing thereby skimping on some of the historical detail, but if it were a choice of JC or an aviating anorak like Alain de Cadanet presenting a very dry, uncharismatic and uninteresting programme I'll take JC anyday.

Aviation is an exciting business in all it's forms and it needs someone woth a bit of personality (and main stream appeal - so out go any council house TV presenters that nobody knows) to make people sit up and take notice. Even if it is just to have a good bloody moan about the guy.

How did that jammy b*stard get on the flight deck?!?!?!?!?:*

More please.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

I've got the cufflinks too. And some amazing memories of a jumpseat supersonic flight on G-BOAD:)

SSD

[Man-on-the-fence]

Hooooweveeeeerrrrrr, the BBC wouldn't accept any of the Shutleworth pilots as fit persons to fly one of their staff. It seems that being a test pilot for a major UK Company, a commercial pilot, an instructor pilot, or ex-RAF aircrew is just not good enough anymore. As some of the Shutleworth pilot's work for the airlines, how do they reconcile that? In fact, the same pilot's may have flown JC.......

I was there at the time. I did, (rather sportingly I thought) offer to take the nice lady from the beeb's place in the Tiger. I even offered to take her camera instead of mine. Sadly she declined.

Oh well, I had to offer :E