CPL and IR trg in USA

[MatthewG-H]

Ladies/Gents - I am hoping to go to the USA in March with the requiement to find a flying school who can take me through the Multi CPL(A) and IR......does anyone have a recommendation of a friendly professional school with good instructors aircraft and accomodation with a resident JAA examiner? It does not have to be florida and luckily (just back from 6 months in Baghdad) I have 9 weeks leave from the army to use.

Any advice gratefully received - cheers

[flying paddy]

As a fellow member of the OP TELIC club I must give you this advice, stay at home and do your Cpl and ATPL in the UK. I dont think the standards are high enough in the states to give you the best training. If you think it is cheaper think only this, you will need to be retrained when you back because you will not be up to UK airspace standard. Try Atlantic expensive but very good. All the best for the future.

Flying Paddy

[Gazeem]

You can do your CPL in the states and the standard is fine - they are standardised instructors and CAA examiners, - I did mine in the states and am now working with an airline (ex-mob too!) Don't think you can do a UK/JAA/IR at the mo, you could do Irish CAA/JAA IRs.

[whydididoit]

Flying Paddy...
Without starting a pi&&ing match here.. do you care to qualify your statement about the standards in the US not being high enough to give you the best training?
Is that to say that because I did my training in the US, I am not trained to as high a standard as someone who was trained elsewhere?

[VFE]

Not wishing to add to the puddle of pi55 but Flying Paddies advice does have a ring of truth to it but is perhaps not the most practical route for most. The CPL training and test can be conducted in the States but when it comes to the IR you must take the test in UK airspace. The most common plan is to return and do the remaining 10 hours of training in the UK.

Having experienced about the worst disruption the UK weather could throw I must say that if you want to get a CPL done in minimum hours and time then look for sunnier climes. The CPL is even more of a glorified PPL now as the start of the new year saw the IMC part of the test abolished. You will want good visibility and ideally a cloud base of +2000FT AGL when training for your CPL. You have more chance of pi55ing in the Queens handbag than getting a good run like that during the UK winter depending on where you are!

The RT may be more challenging and ultimately more rewarding in the UK but this is something you can get the hang of within a few hours of flying here. The US is more relaxed in every aspect of flying but to state a CPL trained for in US is somehow less credible than a UK one is slightly naive. I don't think employers will be too fussed one way or t'other but who knows what they want these days.....

VFE.

[skyman68]

lower standards than in the US? hi hi.
training in europe is based on the FAA PTS.
all my friends who have both license, told me the EU license is easier to pass.I mean the pratical part!.

I went to the US recently, and was not able to fly for 6 month due to this JAA ATP conversion.When on board with a CFII, damn he kicked my butt so hard ...he told me, is that the way they teach you to fly a plane in EU. through books?

[FlyingForFun]

There are some good schools in the US, and there are some bad ones. There are also some good schools in the UK, and some bad ones. Anyone who says otherwise is talking crap. Anyone who claims that all schools in the US are bad has probably had one bad experience.

There are only a handful of schools in the US which offer modular CPL and IR training, so the best thing to do is get the complete list from the CAA website (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/175/srg_fcl_ApprovedFTOs.pdf) and contact all of them. I can give you a personal recommendation for EFT.

Good luck!

FFF
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[Fly_Girl_44]

Throttle back boys! No one really answered the question. I sugguest The Pilot Training Academy Florida It is a very professional academy that is run by pilots for pilots. There fleet is very nice, the instructors are top notch and there location is pristine. I went out there in November and did some time building in there seneca's and King Airs and I plan to return in the spring for spring break. Check them out! Blue Skies;)

[BillieBob]

I sugguest The Pilot Training Academy Florida Which Pilot Training Academy would that be? There's one in Daytona Beach and one at Vero Beach. Since neither of them are approved for JAA training, which Matthew G-H clearly requires, it's pretty pointless to consider either of them.

There's always Cabair at Kissimmee, who pose as the 'European' Pilot Training Academy. I suggest you do a search for previous threads on that particular organisation before parting with a penny.

You will not find any school with a resident examiner for the CPL(A) or the IR(A). JAR-FCL1 requires that the examiner for the CPL(A) must be completely independent from the school providing the training. The IR(A) Skill Test can be conducted only by a CAA staff examiner and must be completed in UK (or other JAA) airspace.

[carbonfibre]

OK firstly to answer the question!!

As I have flown in both countries i can only emphasise what someone has already said! If you are looking for a multiple of ratings say PPL, IMC,Night and CPL with hours building i would certainly suggest warmer climates, just for the continuity.

I have been to EFT, IFTA and a few american schools.

EFT have a good rep, IFTA have a less to be happy about, I cant speak for the others except that the HOT at Delta connection for the JAA is Ex Cabair examiner.

I would not do my IR there unless the continuity of seamless training, ie. standards, planes, and intergration with the UK school is firstly considered.

The IR in JAA land is significantly more demanding, not easier, but different, while FL offers the weather it does not offer the variance in conditions which im my estimation would take you an extra 5 - 6 hours depending on the time of year if you are of a good standard and thats at 350 an hour.

Consider the costs also, the flight to FL, the cost of accomadation, training, food, and of course beer not withstanding the visa situation and costs associated with getting that although minimal, you may find that there is nothing in the cost.

With a UK based school you can always visit and confirm what you like about it, it is normally too late when you have travelled so far and start training.

Skyman68 i think i know what you mean, flying training in US is based around flying skills , control of the aircraft etc where as the JAA are more technical and expect a higher level of knowledge before commencing professional training, whereas you add them with the rating, which i have to say i prefer, the standards however are the same so to bin one off against another is false, they just have been tuned to the requiements of an agency thats all.

As for instructors i have not found a bad one yet in the US or EU!! so guess I am lucky, anyhow good flying everyone!!:ok:

[bailey]

One simple answer..... www.naples-air-center.com

Been there, done that, got the teeshirt and very happy with the outfit. Can't go wrong really,

Bailey

[BillieBob]

Can't go wrong really .......except that they are not approved for either the CPL(A) or the IR(A). So, not a lot of use, really.

[Sensible]

Ahhh but watch this space!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[clear prop!!!]

The standard of training in the States is excellent…if,… you want to complete the final stages of your training to FAA standards. Training is first class and as good, and in some areas better than here. We don’t have loads of US reg aircraft falling out the sky, so this must be the case!!

Fact is that you CAN’T complete a JAA IR in the States so,…end of debate.

PLEASE…, do not decry the quality of US training, it is excellent and fine for those who whish to obtain an FAA ATPL. It is also VERY useful for those of us from the UK who wished to learn basics, build hours, complete ratings etc. It stops there however. NOT because training standards are in ANY way inferior, but because they are geared to, and carried out in US airspace and FAA regs.( The reverse would apply to US pilots training over here…who wouldn’t because of cost, pathetic attitudes to GA and,… the CAA!)

Your CPL should be done where you intend to do your IR, FAA or JAA The two ratings go hand in hand, your CPL training gives you loads of experience which you will fall back on in your IR training.

Go into your flight training with an open mind and some knowledge and you can combine US and UK training to your financial adventage Paddy!

Good luck

[AndyDRHuddleston]

BillieBob,

I just noticed this morning that NAC is not approved by the CAA for the JAA CPL(A). Out of interest, is this CAA approval just a recommendation or would this have a consequence on future employment??


Sensible,

I'm interested in your statement, do you have something you want to tell me/us???

.... Or maybe a question for NAC, is this approval in the pipeline???? I am looking at coming out for 12 months in Sept, are you hopefull you'll have it by then??

Thanks folks

Andy

[Sensible]

Andy, First of all I have to make it clear that I am not connected with NAC. That is very very important for me to make that clear since I may be giving you innacurate information. As I understand it, NAC are likely to be approved for CPL training in the very near future. Again, as I understand it, IR tests can only be conducted within JAA airspace at the moment and therefore the JAA IR cannot be completed in the USA.

The best thing is to contact Richard at NAC, he is a very helpful guy and will be able to give you an authorative answer which I cannot.

Contact Richard at www.naples-air-center.com

[FlyingForFun]

Andy,

CAA approval is not "just a recommendation" - as far as I know, it's not actually possible to get a CPL unless the school has approval.



Sensible,

Nit-picking, I know, but it's not technically correct to say that "IR tests can only be conducted within JAA airspace". As I understand it, the story is that initial IR tests can only be conducted by CAA examiners, and there are no CAA examiners based outside the UK. If a CAA examiner were to re-locate to Florida (and assuming he was still employed as an examiner by the CAA) then you could do your test there.

FFF
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[BillieBob]

FFF - Not only nit-picking but also wrong.

Appendix 1b to JAR-FCL 1.055 -

(c) The skill test for the instrument rating is to be taken in any JAA Member State at the discretion of the Authority that approves the training. A FTO providing approved training for the instrument rating outside JAA Member States will need to make arrangements for the approved course to include acclimatisation flying in the JAA Member State of the approving Authority or in the airspace of any JAA Member State at the discretion of the approving Authority prior to any student taking the instrument rating skill test.

Andy - A JAA CPL(A) will not be issued unless the required training has been completed at a FTO approved to provide that training by a JAA member state.

Sensible - NAC may well gain approval for the CPL(A) and, even, the IR(A) at some time in the future. However, the original question (remember that?) concerned training in a 9-week window commencing in in March. Unless NAC is guaranteed to gain approval in the next 5 weeks, it's not really a contender.

[FlyingForFun]

BillieBob - I stand corrected, thanks.

FFF
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[Sensible]

BillieBob, other than a certain death, nothing is guaranteed but I hear jungle drums beating!;)