Pacific Blue closer to NZ

[Wirraway]

Sat "Sydney Morning Herald"

Pacific Blue closer to NZ
By Scott Rochfort
January 24, 2004

Virgin Blue's international offshoot Pacific Blue on Friday cleared a hurdle in its quest for regulatory approval to fly across the Tasman, securing a New Zealand Air Operators Certificate.

The airline still has to conduct a "proving flight" on Tuesday to get the final tick from the NZ Civil Aviation Authority, ahead of its first Brisbane-Christchurch service on Thursday.

Pending NZ approval, Pacific Blue has yet to be granted its International Air Operators Certificate by Australian regulators.

With four Virgin Boeing 737s now in the Pacific Blue livery, Virgin Blue's head of strategy, David Huttner, said the NZ AOC included the right to fly extended-range twin-engine operations (ETOPS) across the Tasman.

Last month, Virgin Blue "suspended" its right to fly ETOPS services in Australia, citing problems with its maintenance records.

Under ETOPS, a twin-engined aircraft (in this case a B737) does not need to remain within one hour's flight of an airport.

After hitting a mid-week high of $2.61, Virgin Blue shares closed 2c higher at $2.54 on Friday.

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[DDG]

Strange how Virgin Blue`s ETOPS is still "suspended" until further notice but Pacific Blue now has ETOPS approval!
I guess there are differing requirements across the Tasman!

[HGW]

Pacific Blue has got it's own ETOPS. Nothing to do with VB.

Airlines do help each other.

:ok: :ok:

[DDG]

I was under the impression that Pacific Blues Engineering was run by VB in Brisbane to save duplication of departments/positions.
The actual maintaining of the the aircraft contracted to ANZES in NZ(sub-contracted to VTech & Jetcare in OZ)

[Going Boeing]

HGW

To obtain an ETOPS approval an airline must operate a number of sectors, conduct maintainenance to ETOPS standard, keep the required maintenance record trail etc. For Pacific Blue to obtain an ETOPS approval without operating a single sector means that they are using Virgin Blue operations as the basis for the approval and therefore the query in DDG's first post on this thread is valid.

[HGW]

Going Boeing

You are 100% right which means it can not be VB's ETOPS as they don't have one. It would have to be another airlines ETOPS.

[DDG]

Found out that as the aircraft are maintained under the Air NZ paper work system.As such i must assume that they used Air NZ`s relibility and systems to achieve their 180 minute ETOPS approval!

[Next Generation]

Or maybe, just maybe, the aircraft that Pacific Blue are using have had ETOPS approval from the moment they left the Boeing factory.

Just a thought.

NG

[404 Titan]

Next Generation

Just because an aircraft is certified for 180 minutes ETOPS doesn’t mean that every operator in the world will be granted it. ETOPS is granted to an airline based on an airframe, engine and operator reliability in service formula. For Pacific Blue to be granted ETOPS on their aircraft they would, I suggest, have to have their aircraft maintained under someone else system of maintenance. In this case Air New Zealand.

[Clive]

Quite correct NG.

The airframe/engine combination for the 737-800 does indeed come out of the factory with ETOPS approval.

The old "12 months of operation" to prove reliability prior to approval has been replaced with accelerated programs that only require paperwork and systems to be adequate and in place. Boeing provides plenty of literature and assistance to make it possible.

It is therefore indeed possible to gain approval without even "turning a prop". Not usual.... but certainly possible. Congrats to those involved for obviously getting it right from the start.

:ok:

[Next Generation]

404 Titan

Just because an aircraft is certified for 180 minutes ETOPS doesn’t mean that every operator in the world will be granted it.

Pure genius!!..

That's correct.

And just because Virgin Blue does not have ETOPS, does not mean that Pacific Blue should not be granted ETOPS approval.

[404 Titan]

Next Generation

No need for the sarcastic response. As a matter of clarification I have no idea whether Pacific Blue have ETOPS approval or not. From my experience in using it though, it isn’t given to an airline by the national regulator on an open slather. Usually an airline has to prove their systems of maintenance and control are up to speed to be granted it. To keep the approval they have to keep accurate records of every flight, not just ETOPS flights and be regularly audited. Now "Clive" has mentioned an accelerated process in gaining ETOPS approval, which is true, but it is still up to the national regulator to impose what requirements they deem necessary. What the New Zealand CAA requires, I have no idea. Maybe you could tell us, as you seem so informed on the matter.

[nzer]

NZCAA no different from anywhere else - the aircraft has to be a "proven" engine/airframe combination (ie, data gathered by the manufacturer/other states is acceptable) and have any required additional items fitted; there has to be an engineering tracking/monitoring program; there has to be flight planning, flight watch, and crew training and checking programs for ETOPs. See NZCAA document AC121.1 (on the web)