Radio failure Q in CTA (kinda)

[GA Driver]

Was flying out OCTA the other day and as I approached a control step, requested a clearance from radar. I was given a clearance to track inbound from present position direct, then handed over to departures. The inbound point was a good 10nm away from the CTA step.

Still OCTA by this stage but as per the clearence tracking direct from inbound call position.

As I dial up approach, the radio decides to go nigh nighs, bearly readable strength 1-2 on transmission although I can hear approach 5/5. Several attempts to rectify to no avail. 'Oh no' I start thinking, because I am inbound to a class C airport.

I hear the controller saying "unless you can do something about that radio you'll have to descent OCTA and continue that way" (not a dig at the controller whatsoever 'cause the guy was very helpfull in organising a direct clearence in the end) BUT... kinda was of the belief that I should really follow the last clearance and remain in CTA?
A bit of a mystery to me this one, because I was following the clearance however I was still yet to enter CTA:ugh:

Any thought appreciated

Cheers
Ga Driver:ugh:

[Capt Fathom]

Ahh..that familiar Aussie saying...
'Clearance not available, remain outside control airspace'
Don't you just love it!!!!!!!:ouch:

[Adamastor]

A couple of thoughts on this scenario, GA, but I stand to be howled down by those more "in the know."

If your radio had packed up completely then I would suggest you were entitled to squawk the appropriate code and continue as per the clearance, in accordance with radio fail procedures in the documents.

However, you mentioned that it wasn't a total failure and that you were still readable, so commonsense suggests that the controller was probably entitled (and even required) to cancel the clearance (which it sounds like they were trying to do in a roundabout way).

Interesting one.

[swh]

Ga Driver,

Not enough info in your post ....

AIP requires a servicable VHF com to enter CTA, radio failure OCTA, remain OCTA.

Would be very surprised if radar actually gave you a clearance into CTA, its not their airspace, some options that may have happened ...

The radar controller was also the departure controller.... (shared freq)
The radar controller was also the SMC at the primary airport...and was clearance delivery for the primary airport

If the primary airport clearance delivery, which is also shared by radar around the place says "XYZ you are identified track present position to LLL 5500 contact departures xxx.x" this is not a clearance, does not require a readback, sounds like it "XYZ clearance track present position to LLL, maintain 5500, QNH 1013" is a clearance, requires a readback.

The term "present position" implies some for of track/height adjustment against a filed plan, or you did not have a plan in the system and they had to make it up on the fly.....

Either way did radar actually give you a clearance or "expect clearance", or a transponder code and a direction to contact departures?
Did you have a flight plan in the system ?
Were you off track or higher altitude for whatever reason from a lodged plan ?

"unless you can do something about that radio you'll have to descent OCTA and continue that way"

Were you going to the primary airport, or clipping the CTA step into a GAAP or other secondary airport ?, sounds like you were clipping the airspace so they would prefer you to remain OCTA away from high performance traffic.

If they had given you a clearance, they always can cancel the clearance if you can receive them. ie "XYZ if you can hear me squark MMMM"
"CODE MMMM"
Transpoder STBY, CODE MMMM, Transponder ALT
"XYZ descend 3500 proceed OCTA monitor radar xxx.x"

[GA Driver]

Thanks for the replies so far, just to further my original post:

When we called for the clearance we were given a discrete code then identified. Once we were identified then we were given our clearance. Handed over to approach, definately two different guys.

swh, from memory (deadly I know!) we were "cleared." We did have a plan in the system, however the point where we called was not the original inbound point as planned (due diversion.)
To you last q, yes we were inbound to the primary airport. not clipping any airspace otherwise it would make sense to me.

The part where you said they can cancel clearance if you can recieve, I was not aware of.

GA Driver

[swh]

Cancellation of clearances is something that was discussed at length as part of the NAS education road show.

You are required to have a serviceable VHF/transpoder for radar CTA, so the controller would be saving himself some grief by keeping you octa, your aircraft was not meeting the requirements, so by rights you should not even request a clearance.

Don’t forget that being VFR, you are a fair way down on the food chain in terms of flow priority.

That being said don’t be scared of CTA if you are VFR, due wx, emerg, fuel, light etc you always can use the term require, and the controller will divert the IFR aircraft to get you down safely. The controllers sometimes are sitting on the other side of the country, so you will need to articulate in-flight conditions, and your requirements. By being assertive, you promote yourself up the flow priority.

Where did it happen ?

[GA Driver]

about 30nm west of Melbourne, enroute to YMEN.

[Chapi]

GA Driver ...

Your message suggests that it was not really a radio fail 'cause there was still two-way comms ... just not good comms.

The ATC clearance cancellation was probably a balanced decision considering they could still copy your tx and at least get an acknowledgement from you (maybe a scratchy ack)

However ... if it was a complete TX fail ... they would have tried other radio-fail options like "squawk ident if reading" and then provided instructions accordingly.

If your radio had packed up completely then I would suggest you were entitled to squawk the appropriate code and continue as per the clearance, in accordance with radio fail procedures in the documents. True.

don’t be scared of CTA Something all VFR pilots should remember ... ATC provides services to all users ... sometimes they have to apply priorities ... but an emergency (even if its minor) will always push you up the priority list.

BTW: around Melb, low-level, ML Radar identifies aircraft, issues clearance, coordinates with APP/DEP as required, then transfers aircraft to appropriate APP/DEP controller.