Naples Air Centre INC, Florida

[Sensible]

Last week I visited Naples Air Centre INC. in Florida. It was refreshing to see student pilots who were entirely content with the school. NAC have recently moved their operation a few yards and the whole set up is clean and modern. Richard, Nicky and Bea are the welcoming party on the front desk. Richard is something of an acknowledged expert with computers and can often be found posting advice to hapless computer illiterates like myself on the PPRuNe Computers and Internet forum. There are very adequate modern flight planning and study rooms and the whole operation is very efficiently and professionally run. The instructors all seemed to show up when they were due to (quite unusual in many flight schools) and were all smart and cheerful.

The aircraft including 172R’s and PA28’s are all in good clean condition and the ones that I looked into were IFR equipped. There are no hassles with refuelling the aircraft which is carried out by a fuel truck and operator, I personally find refuelling a bore and very time consuming so I was pleased to be relieved of that task. The airport itself has 5,000ft runways so no problems with these even for students landing long. The airport has a tower with Class D airspace around it and there is a choice on departure whether to go East, West or South into Class G airspace or go north into Class C airspace which makes it ideal for training PPLs who could keep within the Class D and G airspace to reduce RT workload.

There are many interesting places to visit locally, I visited several places, the more memorable being Everglade City to visit the National Park and a flight over the sea to Key West. Lifejackets were provided by NAC as a precaution since there is around 95 miles of water between Naples and Key West but I did fly at 8,500 ft and get flight following as a precaution. My return was made up the length of the Keys, a low level pass of Miami Beach and then a turn west to follow Aligator Alley back to Naples.

Many thanks to Richard and his team for making my visit very enjoyable and hassle free. I certainly have no hesitation in recommending NAC to anybody contemplating FAA or JAA training and certainly Richard and his team keep the stress to the minimum by sorting out the visa requirements for training in the USA. It’s always best to avoid the schools that tell you to “Just tell immigration that you are there for a holiday” that’s ok till you get deported then try to get back in years later, immigration guys have long memories! Richard and his team are very efficient in arranging hasle free visas!

[JABI]

Quite a blatant example of free advertising I would say..
Don't you think you got a bit of preferential treatment since
you're a senior Ppruner?
Did they mention you're not allowed to actually wear the lifejackets? We had to keep 'em in their pouches otherwise we
would be charged for them.

[G SXTY]

If we’re going to have heart-warming plugs like the above post, it’s only fair to mention the flip side as well.

As well organised and popular as NAC undoubtedly are, they are not invulnerable - as yours truly and several other punters found out around 11 months ago (February 20th 2003 to be precise).

Fact: one of the biggest and bestest flight schools in Florida was shut down at a few hours’ notice by the state authorities, leaving them in limbo, and many students’ plans in tatters. The fact that they had been recommended by just about anyone who had ever been there counted for absolutely nothing. If you want the full story, do a search – you’ll find chapter and verse on the subject.

My advice to anyone considering any form of flying training in the USA (or anywhere else for that matter) is not to be dazzled by a company’s reputation, and to make sure they have a very good plan ‘B’ in case said company falls over at the worst possible moment. Otherwise, you may find yourself sat in a hotel 5,000 miles from home, having incurred sizeable fixed costs just to get there, with no-one to fly with and nothing but American cable TV to keep you company. And you wouldn’t want that now, would you?

[Send Clowns]

Sounds like a perfectly normal, decent flying school to me. That is what I have heard of Naples. Plenty of them about, in the UK, all across the US, even a few in Florida who are not sharks. I think JABI is being a bit harsh though about advertising (although the lifejacket point is well made - they should be worn rather than carried).

Perhaps this should be moved to "private flying" rather than scrubbed as advertising, since the post appears to have nothing to do with professional flight training.

[CaptainFillosan]

Oh dear, oh dear JABI you have some sour grapes to sell?

Sensible is saying how it was when he went out there for some fun flying. Can't see how it is blatant advertising. Anyway, I think NAC pay a lot if I not mistaken to PPRuNe by way of advertising. If someone comes back feeling that they had a good time and it is a well run operation there is no reason they shouldn't say so.

You on the other hand................................................. :rolleyes:

[JABI]

OK CaptainFillosan and Send Clowns good points....
Agree 100%. Good experience/lotsa fun share it....
It's just very very convenient when you get a visit from a senior Ppruner (like G SXTY or Sensible)....you bend over backwards to pamper them in the hope of a (suggested?) good thread on this forum.
Now I'm not claiming in any way/shape/or form (:D ) that this occurred but it is very tempting ....to think so.
Anyway, good to hear Sensible had a good time in Florida (could have been at any other decent school though), just move it to Private Flying and I'll shut up about it.:ok:

[Sensible]

JABI, I suppose it is free advertising since I didn’t pay for it but then my post wasn’t solicited by the folks at NAC either.

Regarding the “pamper” and “preferential treatment” I suppose that I did - if you consider getting a reprimand for returning the airplane 1 hour late on one occasion as “pamper” and “preferential treatment”! As I said in my post, I flew at 8,500ft over the ocean so would have had plenty of time in the event of engine failure to do all the restart checks, send mayday, write will and don lifejacket etc etc. The lifejacket didn’t appeal to me as a fashion accessory so I wasn’t keen to get it out of it’s pack anyway! I’m puzzled why somebody should want to get the lifejacket out of it’s protective pouch when the engine is still running?? Personally I would prefer a pristine lifejacket in a pack than an old chaffed thing thrust at me! The neat pack only reinforces my view that the school is well managed. Good schools are hard to find that is for sure and this one is worthy of mention because in my view it is extremely good!

JABI, I think you need the smell of aviation fuel, blue skys, sunshine and a warm climate to flush away those sour grapes!

For what it’s worth, my posting is about NAC which is a JAA training establishment and I consider that I have posted in the correct forum – only my opinion again mind!

So far as disappointments are concerned, many punters are ready to blame the school and/or others when they have forgotten the seven P’s which are essential to observe in life and especially aviation – Proper Planning and Preparation Prevents P!ss Poor Performance.

I can only speak as I find and I have done exactly that! ;)

[G SXTY]

Senior? Moi? I don’t know whether to blush or just fall about laughing! I’m not a moderator, and I don’t speak for them or for Danny (although I do have a Pprune sweatshirt – very nice it is too). I certainly didn’t visit Naples as a ‘senior ppruner’ and I don’t think it would have made much difference in any case.

Personally, I don’t have any problem with satisfied customers posting about their positive experiences. What constitutes advertising isn’t my call, it’s up to Danny and his team. However, as I said before, it’s only fair that people are equipped with all the available information before they commit to something as expensive as flight training, and if we’re going to sing the praises of any particular establishment, then those whose experience there wasn’t so good should also have their say.

[Sensible]

Ahh, me, I have to confess to being a Senior prune since I have grey hair and wrinkles! - or was that Senior PPRuNer? well I suppose I might have to confess to that as well having been posting for some time! and so far as good/bad postings are concerned, I have posted some pretty unpopular stuff on these forums in the past. I speak as I find and to hell with it, good or bad.

[Send Clowns]

Not nagging because I confess that I have not always done so over water (my excuse is I have never flown single-engine out of range of land) but advice is to wear a lifejacket, not just carry one. I can understand why NAC want them to be kept well, but they are discouraging good practice, according to the CAA and many others.

P.S. My father did a similar trip, also hiring from NAC, and loved it, so no criticsim of their overall operation is intended.

[Ninety-Nines]

Hi all - this is the evil reprimander!

Life jackets in the US have to be certified every 5 years. Each life jacket is sealed in a somewhat clear bag where you can see the Serviceable tickets with:

1. Date inspected
2. Date reinspection required by
3. Model Number
4. Serial Number
5. FAA Approved Inspection Facility
6. Faciliy approval number

In the US, if you open the seal the jacket needs to be reinspected which normally totals most of the jacket worth. So there are two options: a) wear the jacket and be ready, although it may be damaged from the constant wear, or b) you are not ready with the jacket on, but you know that the jacket works as should!

As with everything......two trains of thought.

We point the "do not wear the life jacket scenario" to everyone as it is so different!

Sensible - thanks for the kind words even after your reprimand!:D

Jabi - what can I say........

Happy Flying

Nikki

[Send Clowns]

Those I have used here, both civvy and military, have been robustly built for everyday wear. They are packed and certified, but in a wearable form. Tell-tale threads indicate that the jacket has not been opened since last service and professional packing, and these are checked by each user (or should be) and should only ever be tied by certified servicing personnel.

With regular servicing they seem to last well, even under trying conditions. I understand NAC working under the US system, but surely safety requires that the jacket be worn. Who wants to struggle into a jacket while trying to make the best attempt to glide to land, or as close as possible?

[Ninety-Nines]

I'll let you start that discussion with the FAA ;)

[Keygrip]

'Fraid she's right, Clowns.

FAA regs - freek'n ludicrous - but "dem's da rules".

Even though an approach to runway 05 ( at the airfield in question) can have you vectored 10 miles off the coast in your Cessna 150 - if you unpack the jacket, it's history.

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

Send Clowns,

Each country has their own regulations. Every school must comply with the rules of the country in which they are based.

The FAA require any opened life jacket to be recertified. For that reason, in the U.S., life jackets are not worn unless there is an actual emergency. From the Eastern Aero Marine (http://www.theraft.com/) Website: (SIL-25-104)

3. Maintenance Inspection - Manufacturer Recommended Frequency
NOTE: A unit is considered "in service" the first time it is installed or placed on board an aircraft. "In service" status shall remain in effect even if the unit is later removed from the aircraft.
Therefore, time towards the next scheduled maintenance inspection shall continue to accrue from the first "in service" date regardless of whether or not the unit is physically on board the
aircraft.

A. First Maintenance Inspection
(1) Perform first maintenance inspection when the time period specified in Table 1 has elapsed from the date a unit has been entered in service. However, first maintenance inspection must be performed no later than the period specified in the same table from the unit's date of manufacture (marked on unit and/or its accompanying new manufacture tag).

NOTE: Scheduling of first maintenance inspection with respect to the unit's date of placement in service is intended to account for time elapsed during storage, transportation, distributor warehousing, etc.

(2) If a unit is not yet entered in service, perform first maintenance inspection at the end of the period specified in Table 1 from the unit's date of manufacture (marked on unit
and/or its accompanying new manufacture tag).

(3) Units removed from their packaging, functionally tested, inflated or deployed for an actual emergency, demonstration or training purposes must undergo maintenance inspection before being returned to service regardless of their date of manufacture or "in service" status.

(4) After a unit has passed first maintenance inspection, return it either to service or to storage.

When flying over water, you want to fly as high a pratical. If you figure you are at 8,500 like Sensible was, you would have 17 minutes to setup best glide, declare an emergency, and then put on the life vest.

If a pilot would want to wear a life vest, then an option would be to buy a life vest while in the U.S. (Since bringing your own on an Airline is out of the question - considered hazmat.) and wear it, while keeping the sealed life vest to meet the FAA regulations.

Happy Flying,

Capt. Richard J. Gentil, Pres.
Naples Air Center, Inc.

[InFinRetirement]

So now you know. But it is not that much different over here. If you wear a life jacket over to Le Touquet for example you are required to inform the approved maintenance organisation that it has been worn. They then inflate them and leave them on the shelf for 24 hours to be checked. Then comes shelf life itself. All done in the best interests of safety. What use is a vest that doesn't inflate?

Remember all kinds of things can happen to a vest after it is removed from it's pouch. Might get punctured and such......I am sure you see the point :ok:

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

Sensible,

I am afraid your thread has been hopelessly hijacked now. It was a pleasure having you over. Nikki, Bea, and myself do appreciate all the kind words you said. We hope we will see you back at NAC soon.

JABI,

Quite a blatant example of free advertising I would say..

If you call satisfied customers "Blatant Free Advertising", then I hope we continue to get plenty of "Blatant Free Advertising". :ok:

Happy Flying,

Richard

P.S. Sensible did get "preferential treatment" as do all our customers. ;)

[Charlie Zulu]

But it is not that much different over here. If you wear a life jacket over to Le Touquet for example you are required to inform the approved maintenance organisation that it has been worn.

Er, I'm sure the flying club I borrow ours from don't do this and they are definately "worn uninflated" whilst over water. Hmmmm....

Anyway I'm also a very satisfied NAC customer from a month with them last July...

...and will hopefully will be again in June and July of this year when I return for the Multi Addon to the CPL/IR. Already got the I20M form, just waiting for my new passport then it'll be a quick application to the Embassy.

I also know other people who are very satisfied with NAC, in fact they are out there right now doing a bit of flying! ;)

Best wishes,

Charlie Zulu.

[InFinRetirement]

Charlie Zulu, where do I say that a life jacket it is worn inflated? Perhaps you would care to read my post again.

As a matter of fact it would be pretty stupid to fly an aircraft with an inflated vest around your neck! Never mind, it is easy to mis-read something. Do it myself! :O

[Charlie Zulu]

Hi InFinRetirement,

Oh dear, I didn't imply that you wore life jackets inflated whilst within the aircraft, that, as you say, would you a silly thing to do.

Why I put quotes around "worn uninflated" I don't know now, I was tired when I posted that!

Sorry if you got the wrong end of the stick.

:O

Best wishes,

Charlie Zulu.