Deaf passengers to sue easyJet

[brabazon]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/3408667.stm

Seems like the pilot involved needs some disability awareness training - at minimum.

[iwannabeapilot]

why would they be made to leave the plane? theres no logic in it. this is the reason you have SAFETY CARDS in the seat pocket - so deaf people can read what to do in an emergency, even if theycant hear the announcements.

makes you wonder how they thought of the name 'EASYjet' - anyone remember some of those episodes of AIRLINE on ITV? i remember a lot of dissatisfied customers

[dwlpl]

The reason why the people were asked to leave the aircraft was that the captain said that the people had no 'carers' with them (and no easyJet staff on the aircraft could sign) to aid them in an emergency evacuation of the aircraft in 90 seconds. The people went to Amsterdam on another easyJet flight a few hours later.

EasyJet apologised and have admitted that the actions of the captain went against company policy. They have also offered to all the people involved a free return flight to any destination served by them from Liverpool.

[Wing Commander Fowler]

Errm...... at risk of sounding confrontational I have to say I think the Captain was WELL within my understanding of the regulations here.....

The point regarding

"this is the reason you have SAFETY CARDS in the seat pocket - so deaf people can read what to do in an emergency, even if theycant hear the announcements"

is entirely incorrect!

The safety briefing covers the subjects which it is deemed are best demonstrated physically and covers the absolute minimum information which needs to be conveyed to passengers. The safety card you will note covers a variety of other things such as how to open doors etc. It is most certainly NOT meant to be a tool to provide a safety briefing to deaf people.

Consider situations like a catastrophic failure has occured necessitating an evacuation from one side only..... The "Brace brace brace" call and any other of a number of aural commands that have to be used at a time of imminent danger. Who is going to sign this to someone who is profoundly deaf? Think also of how disorientating it can be for someone who is of normal hearing in a smoke filled and panic riven environment - how would it be if you lost one vital sense?

No, I think this smacks of another situation whereby a Captain who follows the rules is about to become a scapegoat. I do hope I'm wrong!

[brabazon]

WC Fowler

In that case easyJet need to make that clear when you book, even their "carrier's regulations" make no mention of that:

blind, and deaf passengers

Passengers travelling with any or all of the above disabilities are requested to arrive at check-in a minimum of 90 minutes prior to the departure of their flight. Arrangements will be made for passengers to be pre-boarded in advance so that the cabin crew can explain the safety requirements onboard the aircraft.

[Wing Commander Fowler]

Yep Brabazon can't deny that - additionally IMHO the problem (If I can be forgiven for using such a term, maybe predicament would be better) should never have got as far as the aeroplane anyhow. In an ideal world check in staff or supervisors would be trained to spot these situations and head them off at the pass so to speak. In reality it's not likely to happen, though sometimes it does get spotted.

There are generally limitations on the number of PRM's too - how and indeed how often is this spotted?

The problem of UM's and YP's is another which occasionally gets through to the aircraft although in EZ's defence it's been recorded by the televisuals that they have spotted a minor attempting to travel with no parent. Had just such a situation myself with another company where we got a ten year old on the aircraft looking rather lonely and the poor blighter had to get off and wait or his Dad to return to collect him.....

As an aside here I notice that on another thread in a different forum the Pax concerned were listed as being Dumb Mute bless them.

Can only hope the situation gets resolved amicably but I actively hope the Skipper concerned doesn't get unfairly treated!

[unwiseowl]

So a pax unable to speak the language of the carrier should be off loaded too?

[brabazon]

Unwise owl - you have a point.

WC Fowler - it was the passengers who were "unfairly treated" by the Captain who did not follow the rules - you may not agree, but he was not following company guidelines and therefore should not get off scot free.

[Wing Commander Fowler]

brabazon - do you know that for a fact (like are you employed by EZ or do you have access to EZ's FOM's)? I doubt that, with respect....

Unwiseowl - That is another issue but a an individual with hearing can still have their attention summoned by an aural alert even if they do not understand what is being said. A profoundly deaf person does not have this advantage sadly.

[redsnail]

I have flown often on the easyJet Paris to Luton flights. Yes, they do give the brief in english but they also repeat it in french. Now, I am no expert in french but I do hear 'anglais BRACE BRACE BRACE". So I reckon it's fair to say that they are alerting the french speaking pax if they hear Brace three times to do just that. :ok:

[Divergent Phugoid!]

Wing Co,

Although I totally agree with your comments so far, Please can you refer to our friends, with out the ability to speak, as Deaf with out speech... I have met many a deaf person who hasnt got the ability to speak, apart from sign, and they most definately are not Dumb!!

And to any one without the power of speach please correct me if my terminology is incorrect... We can all become a little rusty.... :ok: :ok:

[Wing Commander Fowler]

Jeeeeeezus!

Divergent Phugoid (last edited after I got back from the pub - probably)....

PC gone mad that is - I'm was born in the fifties and it was deaf and then and remains so now!! Anyone with the other half of YOUR brain should know I meant no offence by it so try to concentrate on the issue here please.... don't have a dictionary to hand but last time I looked "dumb" meant something like the inability to speak - the context I think you are applying is a slang term......

And of course I mean no offence to you either.......

:ok :ok: :ok: :ok: :ok:

EDITED TO INCORPORATE THE FOLLOWING:

Spekesoftly states on another thread that this is an extract from EZ's web site......

" blind, dumb and deaf passengers

Passengers travelling with any or all of the above disabilities are requested to arrive at check-in a minimum of 90 minutes prior to the departure of their flight. Arrangements will be made for passengers to be pre-boarded in advance so that the cabin crew can explain the safety requirements onboard the aircraft."

So do you think they have a problem with "Thickies" then??? :{

Wing Commander...the word "dumb" is not used in context with the profoundly deaf. The reason they cannot speak is because they cannot hear. PC has nothing to do with it.

[spekesoftly]

Wing Commander Fowler wrote:

So do you think they have a problem with "Thickies" then???

I'm not entirely clear as to whom your question is addressed, but I fear you may have mistaken my reason for posting the quote from the EZY website, or taken it out of context. On the Passenger & SLF (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=115665) thread, some mention was made of the necessity for the pax to be accompanied by ABPs. I'm not convinced that EZY's regulations (http://www.easyjet.co.uk/EN/book/regulations.html#specialneeds) make that sufficiently clear, under the specific heading 'blind, dumb and deaf passengers'. Hence my quote.

I also wish to distance myself from any reference to the term 'Thickies', or the slang use of the word 'dumb'.

[Wing Commander Fowler]

Oh I give up......

:(

Actually, I shan't give up now as I've just read the edit from Hawke who appears to have completely gone off the rails.

Firstly let me make it clear that I have no wish to cause offence in the use of the term "Dumb" and let's let that statement stand alone here....

Now Hawke, I should ask you to read this thread carefully and see the way it has developed (in particular Divergent Phugoids post).

Deafness - the inability to hear normally

Profound deafness - the total inability to hear

Dumb - the inability to speak (FOR WHATEVER REASON)

These afflictions need not be related in any way at all.

Now it is possible to be dumb (or mute if you prefer) without being deaf at all so why you have to state:

"Wing Commander...the word "dumb" is not used in context with the profoundly deaf. The reason they cannot speak is because they cannot hear. PC has nothing to do with it."

is completely beyond me???

PC has everything to do with it since Divergent Phugoid appears to object to the use of the term "dumb" in relation to people who cannot speak. QED

[Wing Commander Fowler]

In support of my defence your honour I present the following direct extract from Webster's revised unabridged dictionary 1913


Dumb \Dumb\, a. [AS. dumb; akin to D. dom stupid, dumb, Sw. dumb, Goth. dumbs; cf. Gr. ? blind. See {Deaf}, and cf. {Dummy}.] 1. Destitute of the power of speech; unable; to utter articulate sounds; as, the dumb brutes.

To unloose the very tongues even of dumb creatures. --Hooker.

2. Not willing to speak; mute; silent; not speaking; not accompanied by words; as, dumb show.

This spirit, dumb to us, will speak to him. --Shak.

To pierce into the dumb past. -- J. C. Shairp.

3. Lacking brightness or clearness, as a color. [R.]

Her stern was painted of a dumb white or dun color. --De Foe.

{Deaf and dumb}. See {Deaf-mute}.

{Dumb ague}, or {Dumb chill}, a form of intermittent fever which has no well-defined ``chill.'' [U.S.]

{Dumb animal}, any animal except man; -- usually restricted to a domestic quadruped; -- so called in contradistinction to man, who is a ``speaking animal.''

{Dumb cake}, a cake made in silence by girls on St. Mark's eve, with certain mystic ceremonies, to discover their future husbands. --Halliwell.

{Dumb cane} (Bot.), a west Indian plant of the Arum family ({Dieffenbachia seguina}), which, when chewed, causes the tongue to swell, and destroys temporarily the power of speech.

{Dumb crambo}. See under {crambo}.

{Dumb show}. (a) Formerly, a part of a dramatic representation, shown in pantomime. ``Inexplicable dumb shows and noise.'' --Shak. (b) Signs and gestures without words; as, to tell a story in dumb show.

{To strike dumb}, to confound; to astonish; to render silent by astonishment; or, it may be, to deprive of the power of speech.

Syn: Silent; speechless; noiseless. See {Mute}.

Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913)

You left out "Dumb and Dumber" with Jim Carrey and Jeff Daniels.. you can chase it up on DVD. :ok:

Another message for Hawk:

Brabazon's posting above now makes reference to Ez Jet's regulations as

"blind and deaf passengers"

and yet I note that this posting has been edited by you..... Since it is no longer possible to see what the original posting says could it be that it used to quote the ACTUAL title of the paragraph in the carrier's regulations which is:

blind, dumb and deaf passengers

???

Interestingly enough I don't see you editing any of my earlier posts on this thread and also don't see the word "dumb" in them either!

Would appear to me that I am being slated and castigated for someone elses offence?

Methinks your moderating on this thread is most unwelcome and innapropriate and you abuse your meek powers!

Now do with me what you will hehe.....

[Basil]

Have to agree with most of WCF's comments.

It's all PC - bit like actresses wanting to be known as actors. Perfectly serviceable words pass out of our language because some namby-pamby suddenly takes offence at them.

Resist I tell you! Man the lexical barricades :}

Let the cries of ****, ****, ******* yea and even ****** resound :D :ok: :D

[kick the tires]

The Captain in question is a thoroughly nice chap, excellent aviator and a very level head on his shoulders.

Rumour today is that he did, as I would (and have done) in such a situation of uncertainess, he telephoned easy ops and sought advice/clarification - the result of which was to off load said pax.

Further, some of the deaf passengers were very aggressive in their gesticulations and physical contact with some crew members.

None of this has been reported thus far..........

[Divergent Phugoid!]

Wing co...

I cant believe that a little correction to your posting could cause such an out burst from you. After all I was in total agreement with your postings on this subject except the use of the term now under discussion.

I don't know what time you got back from the pub but my post was updated due to a duplication of text, on the same page, caused by a server error. My post was made after I returned home from work near Lincoln.

As a man born in the fifties I am surprised that you had to consult a dictionary printed in 1913, if my reading of your post is correct, to obtain the definitions of the word 'Dumb'.
I have a recent edition of the OED and definitions for the word dumb are plentiful and include the term which could be used in a derogatory manner, to describe persons with out speech.

You must agree that times change and what was once perfectly acceptable can now be seen to cause offence. One perfect example is the re-naming of Guy Gibsons dog in the Dambusters film, that is totally absurd as it is a historical fact that his dog was named ****** but I do understand that to use the term in modern times will cause offence. Thats what happens when you live in a cosmopolitan society.

I do have friends who are deaf without speech and after relaying the contents of your posts they stated that they too have a term in BSL which would describe your responce... What a shame it cant be relayed on here...

Anyone remember the Gold Blend advert??


;) ;) ;) ;) ;) :ok: :ok: :ok: :ok: :ok:

[Frankfurt_Cowboy]

Are you suggesting that he's a "Gareth Hunt"?