BMI Baby at Teesside.

[gcayman]

BMI Baby website shows the following new routes from MME for Summer 2004:
Alicante,Jersey,Nice,Palma,Prague with Belfast and Malaga continuing from the current winter schedule.
I guess Geneva will come back next winter?
Well done MME!

[serko]

From the MME website

From To Frequency
Teesside Malaga Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday & Sunday
Teesside Prague Tuesday & Sunday
Teesside Jersey Saturday
Teesside Nice Saturday
Teesside Alicante Monday, Wednesday & Friday
Teesside Palma Monday, Wednesday & Friday
Teesside Belfast daily

[ALLMCC]

Assuming the website is correct, Belfast now appears to be reduced from one daily rotation down to one weekly (Sat) from the 03/04 - am reliably informed that this route is a consistently poor performer with load factors regularly less than 20% (unless those that claim to be in the know can tell me any different).

If demand cannot even support a daily service during the busiest period of the year then for how much longer will the route be sustainable?

[mcdonnellluke]

Hello
I have heard that BMI Baby are to start a daily Manchester-Knock servicer commencing 28th March is this correct?
Luke

[EGCC]

Yes, its been announced on MAN's website today, daily service to Knock commencing sunday 28th March, seats go on sale tomorrow (16th Jan).
Departs Manchester 0700
Arrives Knock 0755

[mmeman]

ALLMCC

I think the one a week flight is just until the new summer flights go on sale on Friday. You have been able to book this one Saturday morning flight for sometime. Just looking at the latest CAA figures, in the first 5 days of operation 628 people flew betweeen MME and BFS making about 62 people on every flight, which if I have worked it out right makes about a 47% load factor on a 737-500. Still not brilliant but there you go, it was the first few days!

Anyway the new routes are great news for Teesside, lets hope the flights do well:D :ok:

[BEST L/CONTROLLER]

It's always great when airlines or tour operaters decide to do more routes from airports, it's a positive look at things to come, coome on JET2 build up our LBA

CHEERS!!!

[Tom the Tenor]

Sadly, Cork did not quite make it this time out as a new WW service from Teesside - here is hoping for a better outcome for 2005!

[ALLMCC]

mmeman

Thanks for your comments - I do hope that loads will improve in the long term as Teesside has lived in Newcastle's shadow for too long - however, at the risk of upsetting BFS supporters, I still maintain that if this service (and all Baby routes) operated from BHD it would stand a much better chance of success (after all the mainline BMI to LHR route successfully operates from BHD) - ok Baby would be up against Flybe to NCL but Flybe generally use a 36 seater Q200 on this route whereas Easyjet use a 733 with 130+ seats.

In addition, Manchester would be better served by Baby from BHD and give BACX some real competition - lets hope the powers that be at Baby will see that they would flourish by operating from BHD rather than staying in the "orange" shadow at BFS!

[10 DME ARC]

The schedules are a bit of a laugh aren’t they?

Prague - Tuesday or Sunday! Two nights or five?

Nice Saturday only!

Only Belfast daily!

Malaga four times a week!

Alicante, Palma three times a week!

Jersey Saturday only replacing the Bmi flight?

With Nice about to be lunched from Newcastle apart from Jersey all these destinations are available daily from there. I have also checked some fares, Palma in July, one I couldn’t get the dates I wanted and then dates around them were still £70 more expensive than Easy and Easy’s been on sale two weeks!

I am disappointed I thought Baby would be decent competition to Easy helping keep some fares down but……
:(

[glynn-kayes]

ALLMCC,BFS from MME WILL BE SERVED DAILY EXCEPT SAT FOR THE SUMMER.And the powers that be at BMI have already learned the error of their ways by moving from BFS to BHD.The chief operating officer <MR HOGAN>was sacked and the chief airbus captain resigned.Then AIRBUS recommended non A321 ops to BHD and all because they have a ****e runway.and a proper low cost airline could never operate from BHD as the hours are too restricted and lo cos maximise flying hours till late into the night.As the government white paper has stated,the majority of air expansion in NORTHERN IRELAND must be done at ALDERGROVE and it must remain the main airfield for the province I think you should get used to it..................................................

[BombardierCR7]

I thought there was going to be 2 73's at Teesside. It seems there is only 1.

Cold feet maybe - Easy to the north, Jet2 to the south - all on the same routes.

So the future for Teesside is???

[HOODED]

CR7,the point is that both those operators north and south operate from airports which serve a large city/cities. Teeside, yes good infrastructure and money being spent but it's not exactly got a huge population on it's doorstep compared to the other two.

[BombardierCR7]

Hooded, my point was that Baby orignally announced 2 aircraft would be based summer04. Now there is only 1. There must be a reason why.

[witchdoctor]

Size is only one factor. The fact that Teesside is still a relatively poor area compared to Leeds and Newcastle is bound to reflect on the destinations and the frequency.

After all, the burglars and junkies don't generate much demand for 'glamorous' destinations and as far as I know, most airlines don't accept stolen tins of chocolate from Woolies as valid payment.:}

God, I loved the place.;)

[onion]

I think you will find teessides catchment area is bigger than newcastle's. Remember people in Sunderland use Teesside as well as the whole of Teesside (middlesbourgh, stockton billingham, redcar,saltburn,hartlepool etc.), darlington, all the way down as far as York and all the way over to Carlise as it is closer to Teesside than Newcastle. Alot bigger than Newcastles catchment me thinks.

Also has anybody heard that Air Southwest is doing Jersy this year once a week from Teesside, so not all bad news on that route.

People need to read the timetable better as well Belfast is still daily but Prague is actually 3 times a week not twice as the airports own website said.

[johnwalton]

Newcastle is closer to Carlisle than Teesside is. Ditto for Sunderland.

York is closer to Leeds/Bradford and Humberside, and York-Teesside is probably not much less of a journey than York-Manchester.

In reality, the bulk of Teesside's catchment is south of Ferryhill and North of Scarborough/Ripon. With Durham/Peterlee etc shared somewhat with Newcastle.

For the record, Newcastle also benefits from a large number of Scottish travellers, particularly on Charter flights.

Nice is only a weekly service, meaning that if you want to go MME-NIC-MME, then you have to stay for a week, bit unfortunate if you want to go for a short break? Surely this will suffer with EZY daily from NCL and JET2 daily from LBA.

[Andy_S]

johnwalton,

I think York is closer to Teesside than you realise. It's certainly a bit closer to Teesside than it is to Humberside (with better roads to boot) although I agree that LBA would be the obvious choice for anyone living in the York area.

As for suggesting that York - Manchester is a similar journey to York - Teesside, look at a map!! It's twice the distance, with the added hazard of the M62 to negotiate.

[mmeman]

Onion maybe right. Teesside's catchment area includes Newcastle and Leeds as it is in the middle of both. Very feasible for someone living in either place to travel to Teesside to catch a flight, as people living in Teesside/Darlington have had to travel to NCL or LBA in the past. I also hope bmibaby are going to advertise in Newcastle and Leeds as Easyjet and Jet 2 have advertised in Darlington/Stockton, etc. Even saw a Jet2 poster in Sunderland, so they must think that people might travel to Leeds.

[BombardierCR7]

People from Leeds generally go west down the M62, not up the A1.

BMIbaby did not, or do not advertise ther Manchester operation in Leeds, so why would they advertise the Teesside operation?
BMI seen keen to keep the BMI - Main/Reg. full fare presence in Leeds.

As I have said before - with the daily flights from LBA and NCL to all destinations served by BMIbaby out of MME, let's not hope too much about the success of this operation.

[mattfalcus]

The argument in favour of Teesside's passengers is that it has a larger "1 hour catchment area", meaning more people live within 1 hour's drive of Teesside than they do at either Newcastle or Leeds.

I think Teesside's is just over 2 million (including Newcastle, Carlisle, Sunderland, Middlesbrough, Hartlepool, Darlington, York, Leeds, Bradford etc etc.)

Newcastle and LBA both have just under 2 million I believe.

Now, this does count for something and shows potential. I know NCL and LBA are larger and have better terminal facilities. But Teesside is getting its upgraded terminal, runway/taxiway, access road and business park. It'll all help.

Anyways, my 2p's worth.

Matt

[DEH]

Just booked my folks on MAN-NOC in June. £44.20 each round trip incl tax, which I thought was brilliant.

BA want £88 per person. Looked at Ryanair from STN just to compare prices. wanted £159 each return!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Low cost, mmmmmmmmmmmmmm.......






Long Live The Dog::D

[mmeteesside]

The schedule is:

Alicante 1645 2325 1-3-5-- WW4113/4114
Belfast 1400 1615 12345-7 WW5717/5718
Belfast 0820 1050 -----6- WW5717/5718
Jersey 1400 1650 -----6- WW4009/4010
Malaga 1645 2330 -2-4--- WW4003/4004
Malaga 1720 0005+1 -----6- WW4003/4004
Malaga 1815 0100+1 ------7 WW4003/4004
Nice 0755 1245 -----6- WW4109/4110
Palma 0715 1310 1-3-5-- WW4307/4308
Prague 0835 1325 -2-4--7 WW4007/4008

Aircraft 1

MONDAY
0715 1310 Palma
1400 1615 Belfast
1645 2325 Alicante
TUESDAY
0835 1325 Prague
1400 1615 Belfast
1645 2330 Malaga
WEDNESDAY
0715 1310 Palma
1400 1615 Belfast
1645 2325 Alicante
THURSDAY
0835 1325 Prague
1400 1615 Belfast
1645 2330 Malaga
FRIDAY
0715 1310 Palma
1400 1615 Belfast
1645 2325 Alicante
SATURDAY
0755 1255 Nice
1400 1650 Jersey
1720 0005+1 Malaga
SUNDAY
0835 1325 Prague
1400 1615 Belfast
1815 0100+1 Malaga

with the Saturday Belfast operated by another aircraft:

BFS 0820 - MME 0920
MME 0950 - BFS 1050

Cheers
mmeteesside
MME Movements (http://www.mmemovements.tk)

[Frankfurt_Cowboy]

Mattfalcus, what car do you drive? Carlisle, Bradford and Leeds within an hour of Teesside, I should coco. Even York is marginal depending on the time of day. 2p badly spent.

[Andy_S]

Frankfurt Cowboy,

Carlisle and Bradford - agreed, totally unfeasible within 1 hour. However, York is comfortably less than an hours drive, and parts of Southern and Eastern Leeds should also only be about an hours drive away. If you're going to introduce the time of day as a factor, I don't see that it should disadvantage travel to Teesside any more than any other airport in the region.

[johnwalton]

Andy_S said:
As for suggesting that York - Manchester is a similar journey to York - Teesside, look at a map!! It's twice the distance, with the added hazard of the M62 to negotiate.


Check the RAC route planner, which accounts for speed variations based on type of road and busyness of roads when it calculates its journey times.

I do not think that an extra 17 minutes (on average) added to a journey is going to make people think "woopee, lets go from teesside". Even if the M62 caused an additional 20 minutes, say, I still think the sheer difference in choice between MME and MAN would be a major deciding factor. On top of which, there is a 24-hour-a-day direct train service from York to Manchester Airport.

Data from RAC.co.uk:

YORK-TEESSIDE AIRPORT
Total distance: 59.8 miles (96.2 km )
Total estimated time: 1 hours and 24 min
Don't drive tired. Plan a 15-minute break into your journey for every two hours you'll be on the road.
If you feel tired whilst driving stop at a service station for a coffee and take a short nap before continuing.
Average speed of 30 Miles/h on national and country roads.
Average speed of 60 Miles/h on motorways

YORK-MANCHESTER AIRPORT (TERMINAL 3)
Total distance: 86.2 miles (138.8 km )
Total estimated time: 1 hours and 41 min
Don't drive tired. Plan a 15-minute break into your journey for every two hours you'll be on the road.
If you feel tired whilst driving stop at a service station for a coffee and take a short nap before continuing.
Average speed of 30 Miles/h on national and country roads.
Average speed of 60 Miles/h on motorways.

[Andy_S]

John,

This is a bit of a silly conversation, since you're hardly comparing like with like when you talk about Manchester and Teesside.

Of course, Manchester will always have an enormous number of flights and variety of destinations which Teesside could never hope to offer - in that respect I entirely agree with you.

However, assuming you're driving from York to Manchester, you've got to fight your way round Leeds, Bradford, Halifax, Huddersfield and half of Greater Manchester with all the scope for congestion and jams that entails. Teesside, by comparison, is a straightforward uncongested drive up the A1 with no urban traffic to worry about. Plus you can park right outside the terminal. If someone from York was simply looking for international connections via Amsterdam or Heathrow or a charter or budget flight to one of the more popular tourist destinations, I'd still say Teesside was a more attractive proposition than Manchester.

[Going loco]

Don't know whether this helps:

from “The future development of air transport in the UK: North of England”

Page 42, Table 2.2 ‘Population Catchment’

1 hour road catchement population

MAN 5-7 million
LPL 5-7 million
LBA 3-5 million
MME 2-3 million
NCL 2-3 million
HUY 0.6 – 1 million

2 hour road catchment population

LBA 16-18 million
MAN 15-17 million
LPL 13-15 million
HUY 10-11 million
MME 6-7 million
NCL 3-4 million


data per DLTR NAAM model.

[onion]

Andy you can go quicker from York to Teesside up the A19 rather than the A1.

Excuse me Mr Walton but if you take into account that the A1, A19 and A66 aren't motorways but all are good for 50 then i think the time is alot nearer to the 1hr 10mins than the hour and a half you suggest.

So then Going Loco has the figures and as i said Teesside has a bigger catchment than Newcastle. So oneday Newcastle will be the little brother! Enjoy it while it lasts lads The Smog Monster has awoken.

[serko]

Release Date: 20 January 2004


bmibaby fuels boom in the North East of England - over ten percent of all summer capacity booked in one weekend of sales


bmibaby, the award winning airline with tiny fares, is celebrating after receiving a tremendous response to its services from the North East of England.

The airline went on sale last Friday (16 January) with its summer 2004 schedule from Teesside International Airport and, after just four days on sale, thousands bookings have already been made - almost ten percent of all available capacity for the summer months.

David Hodge, marketing director for bmibaby, said:
"We've been overwhelmed with the response to our summer services. We're confident that we are offering the right mix of leisure and business destinations and this has been echoed in the response we have received. Three times weekly services to Prague, Alicante and Palma, as well as daily direct links to Belfast mean that all of our new and existing routes are proving very popular. Our advice to passengers is to book early to obtain the best deal."

Hugh Lang, managing director, Teesside International Airport, said:

"This is excellent news to see that local travellers and businesses are taking the opportunity to use the bmibaby services. Current services to Malaga, Geneva and Belfast have been well supported and we are pleased to see their summer programme is proving popular. bmibaby services will be of great benefit to S.M.E's to travel and develop their businesses."

bmibaby are flying to seven destinations throughout the summer with over 20 outbound flights per week to: Alicante, Belfast (International), Jersey, Malaga, Nice, Palma and Prague. To book flights log on to bmibaby.com or call reservations on 0870 264 2229.