Ryan Air: Where do you put your paper?

[Gouabafla]

I flew back from Tampere to Stanstead with RyanAir last week on a brand new, shiney and far too yellow 737. The strange thing was that there was no seat back pocket where I could stick my newspaper or my paperback.

Just a minor irritation - but an irritation all the same. Why couldn't they have paid a few quid extra and given us somewhere to stash our reading material?

[expedite_climb]

Beacause it is much quicker and cheaper to clean the a/c without them.

[newswatcher]

:confused: Where do they have the safety instructions then? I thought they were mandated to be available to each passenger. Are they somehow "stuck" to the back of the seat in front?

There were seat pockets in my recent Ryanair flight Stn-Reus!

[expedite_climb]

newswatcher - on the flight I went to DUB on last year - yes on the back of the seat, although I dont remember them being that comprehensive!

[eng123]

All the required mandatory information is printed on the seat back in front,so no need for the old fashioned safety cards,and the reason there is no seat pocket is so that you can't leave your old rubbish/melted chocolate/sticky sweets/banana skins etc...
You failed to mention you were obviously travelling in a brand new 737-800 though!!
Oh almost forgot,you also for got to mention the leather seats,which,contrary to what you said cost more!

[Jinkster]

You could also store a map in their and find out the airport you will be landing at is 100miles from the nearest city :}

[eng123]

Oh how we laughed!!?..........There is not a single airport we fly to that is 100 miles from the advertised destination.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Jinkster]

well......may have exaggerated a little :ok:

[Final 3 Greens]

Well I got a little 'freebie' on my last Ryanair flight - a lump of chewing gum on the inside of the seatbelt that transferred across on to my suit trousers ... and fortunately could be removed by dry cleaning.

Pretty disgusting experience though and it does make you wonder if the crew check the belts for safety before each flight ... you would ten to notice a very large lump of gum.

[Gouabafla]

Sorry Eng, you are right I didn't mention the leather seats - truth is I didn't notice them. Could be because I was sitting on my newspaper rather than the seat itself - no where else to stash my paper you see.

Truth is, I'd rather have cloth seats and somewhere to put my reading material than leather seats and no pocket - sorry if I'm just being difficult.

The safety card was stuck on the seat in front, along with an advert for the catering service.

However, though this wasn't the point of my thread, I will say for Eng123's benefit that the crew were uniformly friendly and polite and both my outward and inbound flights were on time. Flying to and from Tampere wasn't a problem because I was going to Tampere - I could actually have flown to Helsinki cheaper with a full cost airline - but I didn't want to go to Helsinki. Mind you, getting to Stanstead was a pain in the backside.

[Captain Airclues]

Are the seats actually leather? I flew on one today and it seemed more like some form of plastic/man-made material. No complaints though, it was very comfortable. The lack of pockets actually gives you more legroom.

Airclues

ps. I've never seen anyone read the safety card anyway. :)

[BEagle]

Perhaps not 100 miles, but Autoroute reckons that the quickest route from Flughafen Hahn to Frankfurt is 75.8 miles..... Whereas from 'real' Frankfurt airport to Frankfurt it's 11.3 miles by road or only about 10 minutes on the S-bahn, not 1 hour and 45 minutes on the bus from Hahn!

Take your choice - low cost and a longer road journey (€12 per head one-way), or normal fare and a quick journey. Horses for courses.

But with buzz you used to have low cost AND a quick journey. M o'L admitted that they couldn't continue to operate STN-FRA due to the impossibility of obtaining the quick turn round time which the RyanAir operation needs in order to keep its prices low. Honest enough statement.

[Coconuts]

I've never seen anyone read the safety card anyway.

Well then dear sir, you have obviously never had the pleasure of being on the same flight as me, since I always no matter how often I fly study them meticulously. None of this trying to look like a cool nonchanlant, well seasoned traveller for me, so there!! :p

Coco

[Boss Raptor]

Quite right Coco...in the last 8 years I have delivered 3 different new types to 5 different airline customers...on each type the cabin and emergency exit config is different...

Anyone too arrogant or stupid to read the safety instructions on each flight...well there are various terms in my mind to describe them...the choice is up to them...dont get your relatives to complain when you are a statistic :hmm:

[Coconuts]

dont get your relatives to complain when you are a statistic
My relations would probably be delighted if I was a statistic! :rolleyes:

BTW I even count the seats to the nearest exit, must put me in the paranoid freak category altogether.

BTW Boss my apologies for not getting back to yet, I've been very busy, will do in due course mate, hope all's going well!

[TemporaryCrepello]

Aww Coconuts, you can't be all that bad?! ;)

I'm no compliment-fisher but I'll share this in case it's ever useful: Couple of years ago, I boarded an LGW-AMS, checked my seat (oil company training), lo and behold - no life jacket.

Reported it to an FA and another was brought aboard after a short delay. To my slight mortification, the skipper acknowledged my efforts on the PA. Got the feeling his radiance wasn't shared by my fellow pax, who prob'ly just wanted to get home.

Granted, a life jacket's not going to help you much in a cold North Sea, but I'd love to have a 'word' with the ****'s who think it's funny to souvenir-hunt... :mad:

[Final 3 Greens]

Anyone too arrogant or stupid to read the safety instructions on each flight...

I quite agree and furthermore one should watch the briefing too, since (a) the types of lifejacket differ and so do the fastening methods and (b) the CC are professionals who deserve to be treated with respect and courtesy - if it all goes pear shaped, we will be relying on them.

[Captain Airclues]

Despite all this sanctimonious talk, the fact remains that the vast majority of SLF do not take out, and read, the safety instruction card. (Perhaps a cabin crew member could tell me if I am wrong). My point is that if the safety instructions are on the seatback, as they are on the new Ryanair aircraft, then the passenger has no choice but to look at them, even if they don't read them.

Airclues

ps. I suppose that the safety card collectors will now have to take the whole seat with them. :)

[Final 3 Greens]

My point is that if the safety instructions are on the seatback, as they are on the new Ryanair aircraft, then the passenger has no choice but to look at them, even if they don't read them.

Your point being?

[Captain Airclues]

Final 3 Greens

My point is that, although there are people such as yourself and Coconuts, who read the safety card, the vast majority do not. I believe that putting the safety instructions on the seatback as on the latest Ryanair aircraft is an excellent idea as it ensures that the passenger has at least seen the information. It also ensures that the information is readily available in an emergency.

Airclues

[Final 3 Greens]

I see your point now Capt, but IMHO (sadly) seeing is to reading/comprehending as hearing is to listening. At the least the info is in full sight as you say.

Strangely enough, I think that the airline industry is a victim of its own success in normalising the air travel experience to a degree that makes the average punter feel its no different to, say, sitting in their living room .... complacency results.

Probably the reason that I read with such diligence is that I travel regularly enough to be aware of the differing a/c, sub fleets. configs and kit.

And my own small (PPL) efforts have taught me that the air is an environment to be respected ;)

[Coconuts]

sanctimonious talk???? Eh! A bit below the belt don't you think!

Though I admit our esteemed captains comments re: having the information on the back of the seats so people cannot ignore it, is very valid. Far too many pax treat the safety demonstration in far too lax a manner, not to mention some of the FA's (I had to issue a complaint to BMI in the recent past regarding this issue & suggest the steward in question be taken aside & be given further training) not to mention that I feel much of the safety preparation is wholly inadequate should a real emergency break out & panic ensue.

What can I say. You can take the gal out of the training, but you can't take the training out of the gal.

I suppose that the safety card collectors will now have to take the whole seat with them.

My Gawd, are there really people out there who collect that stuff, never read the things but collect them anyway. Yar pulling our leg captain eh! Besides captain what are you doing fraternising with the competition anyway ;)

[Globaliser]

Coconuts: My Gawd, are there really people out there who collect that stuff, never read the things but collect them anyway. Yar pulling our leg captain eh!The Captain jesteth not, trust me.

I have acquaintances who collect safety cards as well as other things off aircraft. I absolutely refuse to take safety cards off aircraft so they don't get any from me (although I will happily oblige with copies of inflight magazines and other things obviously intended to be taken away.)

[BEST L/CONTROLLER]

Weather anybody reads saftey cards or not, it's the airlines resposability to legally inform pax with the saftey cards of the emergancy situation, so there is always a saftey card on every flt, there has to be, in what ever format it is, it's there????


CHEERS!!!!!!!!;)

[Captain Airclues]

A bit below the belt don't you think?

Sorry coconuts. I got a new dictionary for Christmas and am trying some of the long words.

what are you doing fraternising with the competition anyway?

No competitor of ours. Our Freight is not Self Loading.

Airclues

[Coconuts]

You have another very valid pint eh I meant point there captain ;)

Hope all's well with you :)

[radeng]

And I thought that I was the only paranoid who felt under the seat for a lifejacket! And who is almost word pefect on the BA safety briefing.

Although would anyone like to suggest what the chances are that a jet with engines under the wings will make a successful water landing?

[BEST L/CONTROLLER]

It has been done!!!!!!!:ok:

[PAXboy]

I read the card (so I make sure that it is there and would ask if it is not but it always has been there).
I watch 'the dance' because some life jackets are tied at the side and some in front (Velcro anyone?)
I check under my seat for the jacket.
I count the rows to my exit.
I look at the pax around me and try to guess who will 'freeze' and who might panic and who will simply block my route due to the sheer bulk of their personality. ;)

Just another bloke who has been self loading for 38 years and reckons he would like to continue doing so a bit longer, even though he has never experienced anything so much as an RTO or go round ... :p

[Coconuts]

Hope you sit in an aisle seat too mate. I risk my life everytime I get on a plane cause I always insist on a seat with a view, not to easiest to escape from, having to clamour over other people, in the unlikely event of an accident.

Pity the safety demos are so hypothetical & leave out so much, they are placate rather than really educate pax IMHO.

[Tudor]

I don't wish to appear thick but could someone please enlighten me as to what IMHO stands for?! I keep seeing it used on the forums and can't for the life in me work out what it means!

[Coconuts]

In my humble opinion! (Not that I'd ever be that humble) :E ;)

[sixmilehighclub]

As a rough guide I would say that about 5 % of pax on flights I used to operate would remove the safety card and browse over it. Most are complacent as 'it would never happen to them'.

The small percentage who would talk over the top of the demo would be kindly asked to zip it (to allow their neighbours a chance to save themselves if the brown stuff hit the spinny thing).

One guy unravelled his lifejacket to have a closer look, on top of being a little disruptive, and so was blacklisted from uk airlines for his return flight, and his friend disowned him! Luckily CAA regulations ensure many spare lifejackets and safety cards are carried onboard each flight. It is an offence to tamper with any safety equipment.

On Italian routes, we used to discover seat belts missing (they were taken as a fashion item as a belt). Unfortunately it resulted in offloading passengers for the return journey as the seats were unusable.

I have to say I much prefer seatpockets. As much as they are a pain to clean and ensure security, they also ensure that no loose papers and drinks cans are laying around the cabin, which is all it would take for someone to slip over when evacuating and block everyones escape.

Safety Demos? I used to read them and although not comprehensive, we had only a few mins to get everyone seated, secure the cabin and do the demo before we hit the runway. Sometimes it was like an SAS operation!!

[Tudor]

Cheers Coconuts, it's all making far more sense now!

[PAXboy]

Tudor - some people intend it to mean: In My Honest Opinion!

You may also encounter:
IIRC = If I Recall Correctly
LOL = Laugh Out Loud
ROFLMAO = Rolling On The Floor Laughing My A$$ Off

If you search for Netiquette, you will find some very long lists of these kind of acronyms. That were use din the early days of e-mail (berfore the web) when transmission speeds were very slow and they wanted to save time. In the same way that telegram and telex developed a short form code to save money. Now it is the turn of the Mobile [cell] phone users to shorten everything. CU8R. :rolleyes:

[ChrisVJ]

I think we have to start some kind of AA organisation for those of us who read the card, listen to the demo, count the rows, check the location and colour of the emergency aisle lights, have a gander at the people sitting next to the emergency exit, (if we wern't lucky enough to get that seat after arriving early specially,) watch the crew arm the chute's, look out and see there is no ice on the wing, check the flaps are down...........

I don't want therapy for doing it, I just want to be assured a load of other people do it too!

[Crepello]

According to the old chestnut, "This plane floats as well as a boat flies"... :uhoh:

ChrisVJ, I'm with you up to the emergency exit bit, but enough of my sanctimonious talk, eh AC? ;)

Lifejackets: Granted, even in a survivable water landing, you'd probably die of cold before you'd drown. I suppose the paranoid could take immersion suits.

Safety briefings: Problem is, if you put too much in people really nod off. In my North Sea days, we'd to sit through a 13 min video before every flight. Important information but it never seemed to hit home for everyone.

Incidentally, if a 737 (say) tried a water landing, what would happen when the engines touched the drink? Would the acft pitch down/flip, or would they just shear off?

[Gouabafla]

It's interesting to watch how threads drift from one subject to another. From the lack of seat pockets to safety briefings...

I'm another find-the-liefjacket-look-for-the-nearest-exit-and-watch-the-briefing type. But, I have to admit that I get fed up with some of the trite videos that international airlines use for their safety briefings. The current Air France video is particularly irritating. Can anyone identify where the male voice over on that video comes from? He doesn't sound French and he certainly doesn't come from anywhere where English is a first language.

[christep]

As I understand it there has never been a single survivable ditching by a commercial jet aircraft with underwing engines, although there have been a few attempts. Looked at rationally there is really no case for carrying lifejackets on such planes.

Even with tailmount engines there have been precious few (is it one or two?) ditchings of large commercial aircraft which anyone at all survived.

[PAXboy]

ChrisVJ, "I think we have to start some kind of AA organisation for those of us who read the card, listen to the demo, count the rows, check ..."

I really have no idea what you're talking about.:rolleyes: but I think I can go one better, "My name is PAXboy and I have been carrying a smoke hood on all flights for nearly ten years. I started with the simply 'bag' model but have now upgraded to the more sophisticated unit with a proper filter. It's about the size of a 330ml can of drink and goes through all the scanners without question."

Sits down and takes a deep breath as I reveal my level of uncertainty and the hope that such a device may help in an emergency. Providing I don't get knocked out before I can put it on. Looks around carefully to see if others have smoke hoods hidden in their jacket or are laughing in a cavalier fashion.


"I tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.

[Memetic]

Christep,

Take a look at:

http://aviation-safety.net/database/1996/961123-0.htm

Ethiopian Airlines ditching in 1996 following a hijack.

There is also a book by two of the British survivors of this flight, "Hijack". And at the bottom of the linked page a link to some truely frightening video captured from the beach.

This shows that on ditching - survival odds, not good, but survivable - yes.

Never give up!

[Globaliser]

I've heard it said that the hijackers of that ET aircraft were attempting to interfere with the controls all the way down to the surface, so the result of the ditching may not be representative of what could have been achieved had it been entirely controlled.

[Pax Vobiscum]

I'm also a fully paid up member of "Safe Flyers Anonymous", but my background in statistical analysis leads me to suspect that it's unlikely to do me any good. Scrutiny of the 24 fatal incidents since 9/11 listed on AirSafe (http://www.airsafe.com) reveals that (apart from one depressurisation in Brazil with just a single fatality) your chances of surviving any such accident are slim - only 105 survivors compared with 2,141 fatalities.

Hope this isn't too depressing - remember that, even for the most frequent flyers, the chances of being involved in an aviation accident during your lifetime are much smaller than the chance of a single ticket winning the lottery!

[Gouabafla]

I wonder how much the region of the world you do your flying in affects your chances of getting the jackpot on the lottery - as it were!

I do much of my flying around West Africa and I can't help but feel that my chances of being in an accident are higher than if I only flew around the US.

[Coconuts]

Gouabafla

Well judging by the story a pax told me on an aircraft once about when he was flying as a pax somewhere in darkest Africa you might just about be right mate.

As the plane was landing an obviously very noticeable part fell off the plane.

The captains voice eventually came over the PA "Well, it's just as well it didn't fall off midflight. :oh:

[EasyBaby]

Redarding ditchings, there have been several ditchings made by large under wing jets, 707 landed on lake victoria (or a lake in Africa) all the crew survuived, Nimrod ditched into the north sea after an engine fire, all survived and the plant took ages to sink, and the numerous over runs by jets ending up in the water. Have a hunt around on airdisaster.com and im sure you'll find a lot more. One more ditching not by a jet but still large was a Boeing Statsicrusier that ditched in the pacific, all on board again survived, there's a book about it ill try find the photos of and post a link.

[EasyBaby]

TAAT 707 reg ST APY crashed ditched near Mwanza Airport Check the photos on airsaftey.net:ok:

[PAXboy]

I know that this thread has drifted right off course but it's our cabin back here and we can do what the heck we like. (I'm sure that Xenia is keeping a look out for where we're going!)

As for West Africa ... my nephew operated a contract for the UN in Angola a few years ago and was VERY glad to return to South Africa. He even reckoned that getting malaria had the advantage of getting him out a couple of weeks early. :eek:

As for surviving a major incident ... my presumption is that I will not survive it. This does not worry me. Like most folks you just want it to be quick and a plane crash tends to be so. The classic line of Woody Allen comes to mind, "I'm not frightened of dying. I just don't want to be there when it happens."

[radeng]

Easybaby,

The Nimrod doesn't have underslung engines. They're in the wing roots. According to the reports I came across they were extremely lucky that it was a calm day and that they got down before the fire took the main spar out. I suspect that there was probably some damn good airmanship involved, too.

What would happen with your average airliner coming down in any reasonable swell is open to some conjecture, though.

[SkySista]

LOL - this is funny..... interesting how topics change....

so now im going off on a tangent again.... sorry to the mod....

ChrisVJ, I think I need to be in that group too. I too count the seat rows to the emergency exits, and also to the front/rear exit (whichever is closest :) ) I also do the "who is going to hinder me in an evac" look round the cabin, and all that.

Coconuts, I have that battle every time I fly - sit near the window and have a great view, or get an aisle & possibly save my life. Though, you may just get a good view of what's happening to not save your life.... :E

So if any of you CC here are on a PER-SYD or MEL, and you get a pax doing all that *and* paying attn to the demo, it's probably me!!!

Sky

[Gouabafla]

Paxboy, I wasn't complaining about the topic change - I was appreciating it. Pushing things even further....

Aisle seats don't just make you feel safer - they also allow you to get to the loo more easily. There's nothing worse than being stuck in a window seat and desperate for a pee, while the passenger in the aisle seat gently snores and resists all of your tactful attempts to get their attention.