Surfers Jumping from Hovering Helicopter

[dzeroplus]

Just been watching the news and witnessed a couple of surfers jumping from a hovering AS350 in Southern California for what I believe to be Billabong surfing competition.

In good, old Oz this practice (with the exception of obtaining a dispensation or being the police airwing), especially if beamed around the world, would encounter the wrath of our local "friendly" CASA Flying Operations Inspector.

I was wondering if some of our American comrades could enlighten me as to the legality of the above practice.

[diethelm]

I can find nothing in the FAR's that would prohibit this operation assuming you do not have airspace violations.


91.119 (d) Helicopters. Helicopters may be operated at less than the minimums prescribed in paragraph (b) or (c) of this section if the operation is conducted without hazard to persons or property on the surface. In addition, each person operating a helicopter shall comply with any routes or altitudes specifically prescribed for helicopters by the Administrator.

Unless shamu was under the helicopter and assuming they were not violating route or airspace minimums, this is perfectly legal. :ok:

[rotorcraig]

The following from the UK Air Navigation Order & Regulations relates:

Dropping of persons

57 (1) A person shall not drop, be dropped or permitted to drop to the surface or jump from an aircraft flying over the United Kingdom except under and in accordance with the terms of either a police air operator’s certificate or a written permission granted by the CAA under this article.

Don't know enough abour FAR's to know whether they incorporate the equivalent?

RC

[vaqueroaero]

In the US if you were to be busted as the pilot you would probably fall under FAR 91.13 or 91.15.
91.13 states:
"Careless or Reckless Operation"
(a) No person may operate an aircraftin a carelessor reckless manner so as to endanger the life or property of another
(b) No person may operate an aircraft, other than than for the purpose of air navigation, on any part of the surface of an airport used by aircraft for air commerce (including areas used by those aircraft for receiving or discharging persons or cargo) in a careless or reckless manner so as to endanger the life or property of another.

91.15 states:
"Dropping Objects"
No pilot in command of a civic aircraft may allow any object to be dropped from that aircraft in flight that creates a hazard to persons or property. However, this section does not prohibit the dropping of any object if reasonable precautions are taken to avoid injury or damage to persons or property.

As with many things it is a bit of a grey area, basically it would be your word against the FAA. One mans perception of danger is different from anothers. In short if you the pilot decide that it is OK then there is no problem.
We have a rather good photo of a guy on a skateboard jumping out of one our Jet Rangers. I also know of case when some folks were water skiing behind a 500. The FAA actually ended up busting the pilot for illegal long lining (Part 133), because the skier was attached to the belly hook.

I also saw the other night a programme called 'Fear Factor', whereby contestants do stupid stuff, with the end prize being $1 million. One of the stunts involved two people hanging by their arms of the skids of an Astar. They then had to fall into the water and swim, while the helicopter hovered overhead deliberatly blasting them with downwash to add to their misery.

[John Eacott]

I've had to do some of the flying for these types of programmes, and CASA has generally been more than helpful. Obvious safety issues have to be addressed, but otherwise they are quite understanding and co operative (at least here in Vic., not sure about other states).

Even the PAW has to obtain permissions from CASA and address the same issues as a commercial operator; unfortunately the CASA lawyers are getting more and more involved, and I suspect that common sense & operational experience is counting for less and less, these days:(

[Nigel Osborn]

We have never dropped a surfer but we regularly drop surf rescue crewmen from an AS350 in Queensland.

[md 600 driver]

rotorcraig
quoteDropping of persons

57 (1) A person shall not drop, be dropped or permitted to drop to the surface or jump from an aircraft flying over the United Kingdom except under and in accordance with the terms of either a police air operator’s certificate or a written permission granted by the CAA under this article.

how do you do parachuting is this under a different rule if so do they have to get permission for every jump

steve

[Floppy Link]

http://www.mikebasich.com/additional_images/selfportraits/HeliDrop.jpg

Quote:

"I was roped in on the side of the heli and when I gave the thumbs up they unhooked me and I took a leap forward with a view that I have never seen in my 16 years of snowboarding, and probably will never see again.
I have to say it was the most exciting thing I have ever done in snowboarding. I was a little worried about the downdraft from the heli blades, but when I saw the landing my mind was clear and ready. From my view it looked about 50-60 feet. I hit the snow pretty hard and rode down the hill to have the heli pick me up asking if I wanted to do a second. Once was enough
.......
.......
Three weeks later I got the photos back. As soon as I saw the photo I started getting the shakes. I was more scared looking at the photo than I was doing it. The heli drop was supposed to be about 50 feet"

(From interview with Mike Basich, Snowboard UK magazine, Dec 2003)

Photo courtesy of
http://www.mikebasich.com/

[Helipolarbear]

Floppy Link -- Wow, what a photo! But Mike Basich needs to see a shrink.....and soon! Thats not about the fear factor...more about stupidity...........all gonads and no brain!:p

[Aesir]

In the US the rules are simple.. If its not prohibited,, then its allowed! Very easy.

In Europe and sometimes in Oz it seems.. If its not alloweed,, then it is prohibited.

Give me FAR´s any day rather than JAR´s.

[rotorcraig]

md 600 driver

how do you do parachuting is this under a different rule if so do they have to get permission for every jump
No idea, my quote was a cut & paste from the ANO text (found here (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP393.PDF) as a 1.8Mb PDF file).

The reason I knew to go looking for it goes back to my first heli flight was as a passenger to my wedding with the best man. We originally asked whether we could abseil into the venue from the hover, but were told that this rule prohibits without explicit permission which we were unlikely to be granted.

Not familiar with parachuting regs, but a good question.



Edit: I've just gone back and searched the document for references to parachuting, and it seems to me that flights for the purpose of parachuting do need such permission.

I can only assume that means blanket permission for operators, rather than individual permission per flight?

Rule 57 dropping of persons continues...

(5) (a) Every applicant for and every holder of a permission shall make available to the CAA if requested to do so a parachuting manual and shall make such amendments or additions to such manual as the CAA may require.
Maybe someone involved in parachuting can clarify?

RC

[John Eacott]

Why doesn't this, from a snowboarder, surprise me?

Why do I hope my 18 year old feral snowboarding son doesn't get to see this................:rolleyes: ;)

[PPRuNe Towers]

Parachuting from helos? Lot's but 20 years ago. Simple process for permissions which was identical to fixed wing operations away from a drop zone - displays etc. 90% of displays/demos were fixed wing once we'd quoted helo costs but paperwork was identical. Os map ref and copy required. Assessment of ground hazards and so on. Liason with local ATC watch.

Very busy doing it for a while: some may remember the Barrattts A109 dumping it's contents with monotonous regularity over housing developments:} :} Much more muddy than even the worst UK DZ. The semi-glam divorcees Barratt's employed at each site showhome/office were most welcoming:E :E

Rob

[Hughes500]

Parachuting in the UK is ironically controlled by The British Parachute Assocation.
I regularly drop people from 1 of my 500's. You need the following

CAA flight manual supplement for the ac to be approved
You have to do a course with a qualified parachute pilot or Drop team leader, plus have 100 hrs PIC and do a test with a live drop team.
All other permissions for dropping are done by the Display team leader or the Chief instructor of the parachute school.

This is not verbatum, I can't type that quick !!!!!