View Full Version : Life with Freedomair

14th Jan 2004, 15:11
Hi guys. I was thinking about coming over from the dark side to take one of the freedomair commands which will soon be available to us from the mother Airline.
How is life there how many days a roster do you work. Nights away Hours a month? Most important how much do you end up with in your paypacket!!

yellow rocket
16th Jan 2004, 04:04
We'll send you postcards from Pacific Blue.

Barbers Pole
19th Jan 2004, 05:26
Convict, guess you must be australian.....:)

Kaptin M
19th Jan 2004, 06:54
Is Stevo (Stefanovski) still with Freedom?

19th Jan 2004, 10:09
Barbers pole not "roge" if thats what u mean

Pencil Pilot
20th Jan 2004, 06:09
Hi Convict,
Guess you will be eligable to bid for a command vacancy soon @ SJ.
Will depend on movement of current Captains to other Airlines or expansion of SJ. Current movement will use pretty much all the eligable SJ F/O's by April.
Our current SOP is changing to similar to Air NZ. (Some ares have taken a step backwards, but we will get used to a new SOP eventually). You should enquire @ NZALPA for a copy of our Current employement Contract if your really serious. Were negeotiating a new agreement at present but its taking alot of effort and I would suggest that you would be best to wait for that to be in place before you consider bidding.
How hard you work will depend on staff levels but you can expect to work 700-880 hrs a year. alot of 5 day trips away from home but good rest time while away. Expect about 8-11 overnights per roster. Pay if you a first year Captain which is what you would be under our contract that you would have to sign is base 102,000 plus about 12,000 - 15,000 non taxable allowances plus productivity.
Productivity for 700 hrs/year = $0
Productivity for 880 hrs/year = $26000.
If you worked your ass off you would get about 140,000-145,000NZ.
You would probably work about 800 hours.
Hope this all helps.
Also come with an open mind and dont spend all your time running SJ down and telling us how great Air NZ is cause you might get a frosty reception as Air NZ pilots have done little to help us over the years. However we would love to work with ya if you come and enjoy yourself with no baggage.

20th Jan 2004, 11:17

Air NZ pilots have done little to help us over the years.

Pencil ....... thats a bit/lot Rich!...... Unless your a member of ALPA why should they? Seems you now have access to the Air NZ Seniority list and the Benefits that brings,negotiated for you in large by Air NZ Pilots (before you answer I have read the SJ contract)

please remind me exactly what the SJ Pilot group and Airline have done in return for Air NZ Pilots, except take their flying/promotion and undermine their barganing position.
Oh! I can answer that "Absolutely nothing"

Frosty receptions..Hmmmmm... if anyone should be talking frosty receptions it should be the Air NZ people.

As for SOP's, hope they dont slow you down too much, ultimately they are their for your own good! I understand its hard to believe
Air NZ knows what it's doing with SOP's when compared to the vast pool of knowledge and years of operating experiance at Freedom. In time you will come to realize there are many ways to skin the Cat in the end the Cats still skinned!


PS; would be interested to know if your name is on the GOP list?

Jet Man
20th Jan 2004, 11:30
slamer get off your high horse. We're all pilots working for the 'same company'. It's your sort of arrogant attitude, which filters through the whole of Air New Zealand, that will probably end up taking all of us to the dole queue.

Austin Holed
20th Jan 2004, 13:08
Maybe Pencil Man & Jet Man should get off their low horses?

20th Jan 2004, 15:49
Pencil ....... thats a bit/lot Rich!...... Unless your a member of ALPA why should they?

Unless you're a member of ALPA and have high seniority at Air NZ I wouildn't expect sh*t from those thieves. ALPA have done nothing for about 90% of it's members except line it's own pockets with their subscriptions.

20th Jan 2004, 16:05
Good on ya pencil thats the attitude those other no hopers should empty their walletts out and think about the zoo class punters down the back and maybe we that are left can get back on track

22nd Jan 2004, 03:52
Thanks for the info Pencil.
I can assure you slammer speaks with the rabid talk of a few of our brothers but not the majority.
I am looking forward to a change and a break from our sometimes clastrophobic fortress mentality some of us have.

23rd Jan 2004, 06:24
Good grief....... this is great..."A ...my D$ck's smaller that yours competition", Unions a bunch of thieves eh! In that case Albatross you may like to explain why Air NZ B733 Capt's are paid considerably more that their SJ counterparts (please dont say its the goodwill of the company) and you say it's the Unions that are thieves %$^)*<!!!!!!

. Jet Man if we all subscribed to your innocuous politics/attitude
then we would be making a better living off the Dole.

Sandow's the best of all...Didnt know we were "off track" do you have some reason to want Air NZ de-railed? Sound's like you would have Pilots donating their Salarys to the Passengers as they Board. "News-flash!" YOUR pay cut, lines the Corporate pockets only, sit down some time and work out what a 10% payrise does to a longhaul ticket price. Suggest you adjust your attitude to the travelling Public, you discribe them as "Punters"
in "Zoo Class" they pay your Salary show some respect! and you call us "No hopers",stick to the "Wanna-be" page.

Pencil, You start poking the Borax at Air NZ,expect some back. And stay where you are.

Convict, Your asking these People for Career advice!!..HELLO..Put some "Lead" you know where, too bad you find ANZ so un-suitable, I look fwd to seeing who takes those SJ cmmds.

The Companies have the $$$$, you have the Labour, they need us, we need them...think of it as a game....but please have some confidence in yourselves and your ability!

23rd Jan 2004, 07:07
Slammer, It's because they have been at Air NZ and in the senior part of the Union for ages. Know anyone who is flying GA or Regional that the union has helped out? Me neither. But I know plentry that have joined the union early on and paid subs in the hope that it would help out during any legal or contractual issues.

Standard fare for the union is "gimmie your money, thanks, now it's our money. And if you need our help, best you go screw yourself."

I suppose it's all about what's important - trips abroad, parties, lavish spending, redecorating the office or the welfare of members and accountability.

How long would one need to be in the Union to get the benefits you mention Air NZ Captains getting? 10, 20, 30 years.....

23rd Jan 2004, 10:13

Know anyone who is flying GA or Regional that the union has helped out?

Do you know anyone that has asked the union for help and been turned away?

How many GA/Regional guys have actually put themselves forward to help run the union?

I've been a member for many years and any bias the union might have shown at any point in time tends to reflect the distribution of the people doing the work.

23rd Jan 2004, 14:08
Slammer i didn't say I found Air NZ unsuitable Just a few of the over the top variety, possibly like yourself, who think that everyone is out to get them and if they don't have your point of view they must be an idiot. Furthermore I wasn't asking for career advice simply some idea of the conditions they work under.
Why don't you lighten up a bit you might find life a bit more pleasant.

23rd Jan 2004, 15:16
Do you know anyone that has asked the union for help and been turned away?

Company a few years back made drastic changes to contract with regard to F/Os. We elected to contact the Union (who helped draft said contract) to ascertain legalities of changes. Union said "we can't help go fight it yourself" Took time off work to patiently sit at the union office and wait until someone would give us the time of day. A week later gave up and contacted a lawyer with no aviation background who, $700 later, informed us that company was in breach of contract. But by now the union was advising members to bend over and take it because ALPA weren't going to help. This in turn meant that most resigned instead and looked for work elsewhere.

Tell me, if you had a problem with your contract and your Union advised you to fight it individually would you?

I couldn't believe what a bunch of lowlifes ALPA turned out to be.

If you're not going to do a thing for your members then what about returning subs?

One of the most spineless, selfish acts I have witnessed in my aviation career.

TAY 611
24th Jan 2004, 01:17
They didn't exactly come out smelling like roses after the AN debarcle either.

24th Jan 2004, 07:04

I have sent you a private message with my contact details if you want to give me a ring for some of the info you require.

Thankfully the ridiculous, not to mention largely inaccurate, statements by slamer, seem to represent the minority. Sadly though they leave quite a sour taste in the mouths of those of us just trying to make a living as an integral part of the whole Group. Anyway, enough breath wasting.


25th Jan 2004, 19:22
Albatross, you have almost hijacked the thread, and at the risk of allowing you to succeed in that, your comments require an answer. Your fight is not with the union, it is with those crooks who were running it at that time, and two in particular. One is now retired, but the other is still causing problems, even though he and his mob were finally pushed from office in 1997.

To personalise the union in the way you have in order to attack it is understandable, but misguided and a waste of energy. I know, I resigned from the union in 1990 over what happened, (no, I didn't sign the contract, and I wasn't made redundant, and NO, I didn't join the newly-created other lot, either!) but decided that those bastards who crapped on 73 of my colleagues should not be allowed to get away with that. So I rejoined in 1994 and fought the cancer from within.

I can assure everyone here that the current executive is very GA minded, there have been a lot of GA court cases going down, some have been won, the odd one has been lost. But they have been fought, and are still being fought. A very interesting case involving a Partenavia pilot is helping to make some in CAA, including the Director, look like right monkeys ... oopsy, going off topic...

Senior Air NZers do not run the union, and with the odd exception, haven't done so for years. The current president is a brand spanking new 737 Captain, the president before him was a ATR72 captain with Mt Cook. Before that there was an F/O, and an F/O is currently the AirNZ Admin Head of the Council. Not only that, but when he took on that job he was an S/O! In fact the current principal officers are made up of two new 737 captains, a new 767 captain, a F/O, a S/O, and a regional turboprop captain, with two ATCs making up the number.
Hardly 'senior.' In fact it is very unusual to see anyone very senior anywhere near the place - unless they are approaching age 60 and don't have a life outside of their jobs.

The days are long gone when the union was an AirNZ/NAC/MtCook/Safe (and cosy!) bed-mate with whoever happened to be running the said respective companies.

I have racked my brains as to why MT and PHB behaved the way they did, and I have suspicions but no proof.

I suspect you don't either. But don't blame the union all your life, it is the people running it that breathe life, or in this case, death, into it, not the union itself.

27th Jan 2004, 10:57
Deadhead - it almost sounds like a novel could be written about the recent history of the Union. We mere mortals on the outside only glean the occasional insight into NZALPA - such as the LA toilet punch up. :cool:

28th Jan 2004, 00:03
Deadhead, it is good to know that the union has decided to once again support its members. At the time I thought the lack of accountability and desire to do as little as possible was tanamount to fraud. Agreed, the fact that part of the union management were rotten shouldn't blight the union as a whole but we are talking about a fundamental lack of service to it's members and a desire to leave them hanging rather than get involved.

Many are in the union for the legal advice it supposedly will offer when things don't go as planned during a day at the office. That requires trust which on past form only a fool would unquestionably expect from ALPA.

Hopefully, in time this will all change.