Computer fails to boot.

[redsnail]

This is a pretty new machine. (ie a couple of months old).
I didn't buy it as one unit, it is the result of a rebuild. It's the preverbial grandfather's axe though.
It was working fine after the rebuild then last week it had difficulty starting (ie booting up). Needed a few restarts (warm reboots). Then nothing.
Monitor is ok and working.
Only once has it managed to get to the BIOS page on the monitor.
Usually nothing.
Old bits.
HD. Seagate 20Gb U10 ST320423A. About 4 years old. Had no probs with it. Now partitioned into 3 drives. It's on IDE #1, master.
Monitor. Hitachi 17". 4 years old too. No dramas
DVD drive.
CD burner.
Both have worked just fine.

New bits. Bought in Oct last year. (Computer rebuilt because of a strange noise. Ended up being the power supply fan)
Mobo.
MSI KT4AV (FCC MS6712 Ver:10A) Had trouble with it before, already been to the shop once.
RAM. VM512Mb DDR PC133
Video card. MSI FX5200 128Mb (FCC 8907 Ver:2.00)
New case and power supply. Suntek 300W approved for AMD and Pentium CPU's.
CPU. AMD Athlon XP 2100+ 1.76Ghz. (slightly overclocked by the bios to 1.8Ghz) Mastercooler fan.
Crappy internal Intel modem. hate the thing, temporary measure.
OS. Windows XP Service pack 2.

Today I did some more trouble shooting. I disconnected the HD and the CD drives as well as the FD from the mobo. (ie, mobo, CPU, memory and graphics card only) I also removed the HD and tried to gently flex it to see if that would help.
Nothing appeared on the monitor. (Fans whirred away, LED's glowed etc)
I unseated the memory. No beeps.
I unseated the video card. No beeps.
In fact, no beeps (expect a single beep upon start) at all.
Reseated every thing, reconnected every thing. Nothing to the monitor at all. Occassionally, the monitor LED changes colour (as you'd expect if a signal was being sent) but that goes back to the standby colour in a short time.
When I turn it on, various fans whir and the FD (very old) seems to be trying to read something (nothing in the drive) and that's all that happens.

Now, I am not a computer genius but it's looking like either the HD has crashed or it's looking more likely the mobo has decided to die again.
Surfed the net for clues, bought mags with self help instructions too. Nothing has worked.

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

redsnail,

That is a lot of hardware for a 300W Power Supply. The GeForceFX alone will use 75W of power under load. (It looks like you have been running underpowered for a while now.)

You would want a Power Supply that has at least 28a on the 3.3v RAIL and 17a on the 12v RAIL (Since the GeForceFX uses the 12v RAIL which is plugged directly into the Video Card.) and a Max Combined Wattage of at least 200W.

Without figuring fans, network cards and any other hardware your computer has, the Power Supply Wattage Calculator (http://www.jscustompcs.com/power_supply/) says you need a minimum of 318W. (I would look for a good Antec Power Supply with at least 400W.)

The KT4AV has a Diagnostic LED what do the LED codes say is the problem?

http://www.msi.com.tw/images/product_img/accessories_img/dbracket2.gif

(You can find a picture of the D Bracket and a list of the LED codes on Page 1-6 of your Motherboard Manual.)

Take Care,

Richard

[redsnail]

Cheers Richard,
I had a squizz on the power suply. It's a Suntek model no. AM608B1-300WS. It has an AMD approved and Intel +12V sticker on it.
Voltage. 115Vac/230Vac.
Output. +12 -12V
16A 0.8A
Current. 6.3A/5A
-5v +5Vsb
0.5A 2A
Freq 47Hz~63Hz
+5V +3.3V
30A 22A (combined 180W)

Great tip regarding the diagnostic LED's. I have forgotten about them.
Any way, fired it up (minus the HD, FD, DVD and burner). I get a message on the monitor, "boot failure". Oooh goody, reattach the HD and FD. Restart. Back to the original fault. I peer at the LED's and I watch what was going on. On the first effort it goes all the way through the sequence and then goes back to the 3rd LED symbol. ie the "memory detection test". It says it will hang if the memory module is damaged or not installed properly. Bugga!!
I reseat the memory. Same result (although it just stops at the 3rd check. It doesn't go any further). I try all positions with the same result. It hangs at the memory check.

As far as I am aware I haven't had a power spike or any thing like that. Perhaps it just decided to fail. This computer has run previously as configured as above with the power supply. (Admittedly, it was still a bit buggy but I was working my way through them)

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

redsnail,

If you can get the computer to boot without all the hardware in it, try to get into the BIOS. (When the computer starts up, use the Delete Key to enter the BIOS.) One thing I always do is Disable the option Full Screen Logo Show. That will let you see what is going on while the computer posts. (It is on page 3-8 of the Motherboard Manual.)

If you can make it to the BIOS without all the hardware hooked up, then your problem is with one of the pieces of hardware you disconnected.

If you get it the BIOS, then shut down again and try this configuration:

Connect the Floppy Drive to the Floppy Controller

Set the Hard Drive jumper as Master and put it on the end of the ribbon on the Primary Controller.

Set the CD Burner jumper as Master and put it on the end of the ribbon on the Secondary Controller.

Leave all PCI Cards out of the computer.

Let me know what happens with FrankenComp. ;)

Take Care,

Richard

[redsnail]

G'day Richard,
Got to the BIOS (using Delete key pressed).
The LED's showed "Decompressing BIOS image to RAM for fast booting."

Then reattached every thing as you described. (I had already had the Burner as Master on IDE 2, the DVD is the slave on IDE 2). I removed the DVD for the test though.
No joy. No booting. The LED's show "Memory detection test. -testing onboard memory size. The D-LED will hang if the memory module is damaged or not installed properly."
I removed the IDE 2 cable, same result. :(

Cheers.
Fortunately the computer store is just up the road and I have a credit card :D

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

redsnail,

I am leaning to FrankenComp not getting enough juice from the Power Supply.

Back to another test:

Try disconnecting the Hard Drive and the CD Burner. See if you make it to the BIOS with just the Floppy connected. If you do, then hook up the Hard Drive and try to get to the BIOS again. If you do, then try the CD Burner again. (If the CD Burner does not let you make it to the BIOS, then switch it for the DVD Drive.)

If you cannot get to the BIOS with the Hard Drive Connected, try with just the CD Burner or the DVD Drive.

I am trying to see what is making your FrankenComp fail.

Take Care,

Richard

P.S. With the DLED Lights, sometimes they show the process prior to the fail point. (They are not 100% accurate.)

[redsnail]

G'day Richard,
Done every thing you said.
results.
Floppy only. Boot to BIOS.
HD with FD. No joy.
Burner with FD. No joy.
DVD with FD. No joy.
Then tried the original FD only.
Couldn't get to the BIOS. Tried a few times. No joy.

Why would the power supply fail now? It had been running before? (just curious before I spend cash) :D

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

redsnail,

It could be something as simple as one of the RAILs in the Power Supply has failed. It could be the Power Supply failed due to the computer being under powered.

You might end up replacing the Power Supply and the computer will still have the same problems. That just means your system has more than one problem.

When people are running under powered, I tell them that their Power Supply is a problem, but it might not be the ONLY problem.

Take Care,

Richard

P.S. Lets hope the second problem is not the motherboard itself. :eek:

[redsnail]

Cheers for your help Richard.
I might have to put it on the back burner for a few days. My car's brakes have decided to play up and I need to attend to that. I'll make the effort to cart the box up the road to the shop where I bought the bits from. I'll tell them exactly what I have done and get them to test the components.
I will report back. :)

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

redsnail,

Forget the car, just use the Ducati. ;)

Richard

[Memetic]

Why would the power supply fail now? It had been running before? (just curious before I spend cash)


Well you did say:
Computer rebuilt because of a strange noise. Ended up being the power supply fan

If the fan was working below speed or intermittently components in the power supply could have been running over temperature. That will reduce thier life span.

One other thing are you wearing an antistatic strap doing all this insertion / removal work? One good zap = a factor of 10 decrease in life for a sensitive component like a processor:eek:

[redsnail]

Memetic,
Thanks for your input, it is a new case and fan. It was the old fan on the PSU that caused grief.
I was grounded before touching any thing.
Computer now at the shop as I and others had run out of ideas to sort it out. :D

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

redsnail,

New Power Supplies do fail, even ones from the top brands. When you run under powered anything can happen.

I still hope it is only the Power Supply and not your motherboard or your Hard Drive.

Take Care,

Richard

P.S. Thinking about it, might not be such a bad thing if it is the Hard Drive. You could end up with a new 80Gb to 120Gb Drive. Make sure they use a 7,200rpm Drive with an 8Mb Cache. (Windows is all about Disk Access and the faster the Hard Drive, the better.)

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

redsnail,

Just a little food for thought. This is a pair of threads I came across at the Forums I moderate for MSI's (Micro-Star International) Headquarters in Taiwan:

Computer runs slow (http://forum.msi.com.tw/thread.php?threadid=38008&sid=)
(Talks about performance with old Hard Drives.)

And

Geforce 5600Xt 128mb Crashes And Low Fps (http://forum.msi.com.tw/thread.php?threadid=37714&sid=)
(Talks about running under powered Power Supply.)

Take Care,

Richard

[redsnail]

Just got the call from the shop. It was the HDD.
So shouted myself a nice Samsung 160Gb number.7200 rpm, UDMA 133 and 8Mb cache with a 8.9ms thingo. On special for 82 quid. :D

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

redsnail,

Nice going. :ok:

Take Care,

Richard

P.S. See if they have a good 400W Antec Power Supply while they are at it. ;)

[redsnail]

Computer now happily munching through formatting the 160Gb HDD. (I have partitioned it)
It seems the FRED was sicker than previously thought. The memory and the CPU was crook and replaced under warranty.
Thanks Richard :t

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

redsnail,

Ouch!!! But at least you are set now. ;)

Enjoy,

Richard

[Blacksheep]

"Now, I am not a computer genius ..."

...come on Reddo, give yourself some credit. There's plenty of avionics techies that couldn't have got that far, or even dared to try...

**************************
Through difficulties to the cinema