JET2 Where2 next??

[LBAir]

Does anyone know if JET2 plan to operate any new services from LBA to UK points other than just BELFAST INTERNATIONAL? The rumour of a NEWQUAY service appears to have died a death and the rumour of a BELFAST INTERNATIONAL second base appears to have died a death. Can anyone shed any light on this?

Services operating from LEEDS BRADFORD INTERNATIONAL this summer by JET2 bellow.

LEEDS - MALAGA (Twice daily)
LEEDS - AMSTERDAM (Twice daily)
LEEDS - BELFAST INT (Twice daily)
LEEDS - PALMA (Daily)
LEEDS - BARCELONA (Daily)
LEEDS - ALICANTE (Daily)
LEEDS - NICE (Daily)
LEEDS - PRAGUE (Daily)
LEEDS - MURCIA
LEEDS - VENICE
LEEDS - ALGARVE

from YORHSHIRE:ok: the place to be is the City of Leeds.

[Lite]

My best bet would probably to add a base at Bournemouth, as this is the base I believe of parent company Channel Express and also beside the Dublin and Girona flights by Ryanair, it is one of the few remaining airports in the South West without a significant low fares airline presence.

Out of Leeds-Bradford, I would presume the airline might try to add one or two new business cities, perhaps Paris and Frankfurt with two flights a day and one or two more leisure cities with one flight a day like Naples, Madrid or Mahon.

[KAT TOO]

For a low cost airline their aircraft seem to spend a lot of time parked up at Leeds, i drove by there today (SAT) and there was five parked up at mid day and only two of them seemed to be open. Not much really for a Saturday.Still i guess they can park em for nowt at Leeds? :ok:

[Mark Lewis]

There was some mention of an LGW service a while back. Is that still on the cards?

[HOODED]

Don't think they actually applied for LGW slots, but either way they dont have any. I'd have thought Paris would be a good bet but they'd have trouble getting slots no doubt, same goes for Frankfurt.

[bearkeeper]

Keep your eyes on BFS, BRS, EXT and, maybe, BOH !!!!!!!
Who knows for certain ?

[carlos vandango]

Apparently there's a big channex truck at BFS to be used for the re-roll between pax/ night mail. Plenty of Pilots have been interviewed for a BFS base and they're recruiting cabin crew for BFS this month. Having said that, I havn't heard if anyone has actually been offered a BFS contract yet.

[baps]

Can't see Jet2 doing Paris. bmi already does CDG and bmibaby has threatened to flood leeds with bmibaby if jet2 competes with them. I think jet2 would have a hard time competeing with them. That said flown jet2 a few times and excellent service. Good luck to them i say.

[KAT TOO]

Are they making any money? thro Leeds again this morning and at least four parked up on the ramp, funny way to run an airline, still it makes Leeds look like an airport.:O

[HOODED]

I think they said they did'nt expect to make money over winter but overall for a first year I think they'll end up in the right area. 2004 will be an interesting year as they will have 6 based ac so to turn a profit would be a great achievement. I hope they do but my main worry is them being gobbled up by one of the major loco's a bit like Go/Buzz were.
LBA with an established set of loco routes would be tempting for both Easy and Ryanair but with BMI mainline and Regional operating I believe Baby would be thrown in if that were to happen as, as Baps says, Jet2 haven't gone head to head on any BMI routes yet. You'd bet the majors would though.
Having their ac parked at LBA for next to nowt during winter is better than running routes at a loss and ensures the winter schedule runs on time, this is something Jet2 are very good at and partly why they are doing well in their first year.

[14 loop]

Seeing alot of metal on the ground on a Sunday morning isn't unique to either Jet 2 or LBA! Alot of UK airlines operate 'slack schedules' on Sundays - particularly in winter.

I have to admit though that Jet2 have, up to press, always kept alot of capacity in reserve. Their first full Winter was always going to be an unknown and prudence seemed to be the name of the game. This summer should see that change, however it appears that slot availability has put a block on some 'nice to have destinations' - there appears to be some spare capacity in the programme.

Tonight though (Sunday) for Jet2 sees at least 4 of the 5 units earning their keep with arrivals at LBA as follows;

LS266 MALAGA 2010
LS294 BELFAST INTL 2050
LS206 AMSTERDAM 2130
LS198 PRAGUE 2155

...and I'd reckon that with the exception of possibly the BFS those flights would be fairly full.

[trainer too 2]

Having too many aircraft (if such thing exists) is not a problem here I guess. As they were able to buy a lot of aircraft out of Ansett when they went belly up they have some time to get them through maintenance, train crew etc.. If you buy them at a good rate having too many is not a problem for a straong company like Channel Express.:ok:

Maybe an idea for NOW to lease aircraft of them :p :p :p :p

But to answer the question BOH should be a good base I guess.

[king dee]

Ok

Jet 2 have not gone head to head with BD however they have with KLM on the Ams Route .

Yes i know KLM offer connections .

I have flown both airlines LBA - AMS in the past months and both seem to have a good load factor .

I say sack BD on the BRU route and bring in SNBRUSSELS ......

[HOODED]

Not just Brussels how about Paris? Also they do go head to head with FlyBE on Belfast even if FlyBE go to City. I'm surprised FlyBE are still getting reasonable loads as they have an awful on time record from LBA unlike Jet2. They also are not CAT3 unlike Jet2 and they operate a turboprop on the route. Still there's no accounting for taste. Good luck to all these airlines and long may there be choice ex LBA for a change.

[baps]

I doubt jet2 will take many passengers off flybe as they haven't off klm. At the end of the day flybe offers 4 flights a day to Belfast and that means flexibilty to business passengers for basically the same price and they end up close to the city centre. i know which I'd prefer. KLM's loads have not gone down at all since Jet2 started because again they have more flights a day with AMS connections and god knows they're better than LHR. Plus once again the price isn't that different apart from when Jet2 have their £1 specials. Perhaps they should concentrate on providing new destinations rather than competing with established carriers and that way everyone will have somewhere to go for their holidays.

[682ft AMSL]

Whilst its inevitable that slot restrictions at some of the major airports will mean that Jet2 might struggle in practice to fly the schedule they would like, I can't really think of too many instances where this would be much of an issue for Jet2.

CDG is one good example though - I don't think there is much argument that the capacity offered on LBA-CDG at the moment is below a level which the local market could support. It's not that there's anything wrong with bmir's 3 x daily ERJ145 service as such, but as neither a feeder service for Air France or a particularly cheap alternative to Easyjet ex-LPL, it has become something of a niche operation. Passenger throughout is currently 60k per annum and heading south and is well below LBA-AMS and LBA-DUB which now run at about 250k per annum each. Given the markets are roughly about the same, that gives you an idea of the size of the opportunity. I'm sure Jet2 would love to have a crack should they manage to obtain the slots. Whatever hypothesising there is about how bmi might react, its worth bearing in mind that they would struggle to find the aircraft and the crew to 'flood' LBA with bmi babies, even if that is what they wished to do (which I doubt).

As for the other slot restricted airports on the continent, I'm not really convinced by the case for 2 x daily 737-300s to places like FRA, CPH, MUC etc. Ironically enough, these are much better suited to bmi and their Embraers, especially with the added traffic the Star Alliance feeds.

Therefore if Jet2 do try and move into higher frequency, shorter runs, it will interesting to see how they do it. The domestic market is an option, but is difficult to judge the potential given the fairly central geographic position of the LBA market. The overall volumes of travel to/from West Yorks to places like Edinburgh, Glasgow and Bristol are significant, but the question is how much of that market would switch from road/rail to air and what fares would trigger them to do so. Certainly the way passengers have responded to lo-co services on EMA to GLA/EDI and NCL to STN show that it can be done, one presumes at a profit.

Jet2 might of course choose not to move into the shorter sector runs - afterall the financial success of the venture (at least so far) does not seem to be dependant upon working the aircraft particularly hard. That said, there is still a level of unutilised capacity in the summer 04 schedule that I'd be surprised if they didn't find a use for.. From what I can tell, the aircraft that goes to Murcia each weekday morning at 11:00 is free beforehand, the FAO and VCE services only operate on a part-week basis and so are free on the other days, whilst Saturdays and Sundays seem to have plenty of windows to fit some additional sectors in. Therefore there's the opportunity to fit in some additional weekend flights to the main 'sun' runs and dabble with a new destination or two in the week, so long as it suits a Mon, Wed, Fri type operation.

On a wider note, I have been a bit surprised that Je2 / Channex haven't found a way (or aren't interested in finding a way) to use their surplus LBA capacity in the package holiday market. For all the talk about CDG etc, some of the thickest routes in the summer out of MAN are to places like IBZ, MAH, CFU, MLA etc which must be heavily subscribed to by the Yorkshire market given the token offerings from Tui / First Choice / Thomas Cook etc. It's somewhat ironic that whilst significant numbers head over the hill to catch these services, there's a fleet of 737s sat doing nothing overnight and at certain times in the day. A case of supply and demand not quite meeting it seems. I'd be particualrly interested in running shared services to places like IBZ, MAH etc with Jet2 block-selling a % of the capacity to a tour operator and selling the rest themselves on a scheduled basis. Would seem to be fairly low-risk to both parites and for Jet2 a good way of opening up sun routes that are still evolving as seat-only destinations and that otherwise wouldn't stack up on a stand-alone basis.

682

[Dan319]

MLA is crying out for low cost airlines from UK. Channel Express had a 737 land there before Xmas. I emailed Jet2 but they denied planning ops to MLA this year.:sad:

[PTH needs tarmac]

Slot availablility seems to be the perenial problem of most airlines, especially newcomers. I would consider CDG to be a prime target for Jet2 given the mix of year-round leisure and business passengers going to Paris.

LBA is underserved for routes/capacity to Paris as shown by the routine 20,000+ per month LPL-CDG, 10,000+ EMA-CDG, 40,000+ MAN-CDG and NCL-CDG has recently surged up to 15,000+. LBA-CDG rattles around at 4-5,000 pasengers per month, and as 682ft points out is showing a decrease on corresponding months for 2002.

With LoCo services ringing the Yorkshire area you can bet many Yorkshire punters are heading West, South or now North to take flights to Paris.

It's worth noting that the addition of Jet2 services to AMS has ADDED 10,000 pax per month to the route. KLM load factors have stayed close to or sometimes above those of 2002. Of course load factor does not always correlate to profitability but empty seats earn even less. While demand for sand and sun routes vary across the year Jet2 LBA-AMS has been very consistent. For long term stability and growth a couple more such routes must be a good thing. The Jet2 pax may lack onward connections but I know that many business travellers appreciate the later evening return than offered by KLM which can avoid the need for an overnight hotel stay.

That last point was always the strength of the Sabena/DAT service to BRU (as raised by King Dee) with an early morning departure and late final return service allowing single day business trips. bmi regional's BRU service has barely attracted 30% of the peak monthly totals of Sabena (10,000+) shortly before their demise, frequently even less.

682ft raises an interesting suggestion of Jet2 using overnight aircraft downtime to run services to resorts in the Med and part selling seat blocks to package holiday companies, boosting ex-LBA IT capacity while not lumbering the IT company with the cost of basing/operating etc its own aircraft. This would probably require a significant increase in crews though. Do any other UK LoCos run anything similar?

PTH

[ILS 119.5]

I see now Flybe is "Yorkshire's Low Cost Airline" according to the adverts!!!!

[eurostar builder]

The hottest rumour is that jet 2 are comming to the south at Bournemouth

[glynn-kayes]

I just had a look at FLYBE,s loads over the last few days on the LBA-BHD route and they aint too impressive,most flights with 40-50 seats empty.I think JET2 are seriously hurting them on this one......................................................... .....................................

[ALLMCC]

Glynn, if its not a rude question, how do you have access to Flybe's load information? - do you have access to Jet2's? - if so, are they any better? - doubtful considering they're still actively flogging seats at £1 - anyway LBA is not a high yield route - certainly not high enough for 2 carriers!

[glynn-kayes]

ALLMCC I always have full access to FLYBE because,unlike yourself,I work in the industry and FLYBE are a full AMADEUS participant so that means each airline who subscribes to the system have access to each others seatmaps for interlining etc.At flight closeout any seats not taken are released back into the system so they will show as:a: meaning available.But with 3.95 million pax in 2003 at BIA versus 1.9 at BHD I would think that BHD has more :a: seats,dont you.I hope youre not confused by airline terminology,If you like i.ll draw it for you with crayons<coloured of course>...........................................................

[ALLMCC]

Glynn- Kayes

Thanks for your response although the sarcasm wasn't really necessary - the point I was trying to make was that on weekdays there are now technically over 1000 seats available between Belfast & Leeds - in other words supply vastly exceeds demand - as you say I don't work in the industry but someone who does (in the travel agency trade) tended to agree with me when I discussed with him - in the end there simply isn't enough demand to support 2 carriers in the long term.

[Going loco]

ALLMCC, with respect;

1) you can't possibly know what the level of demand is between LBA and the Belfast airports unless you've access to some sort of expensive market research analysis. To say that "supply vastly exceeds demand" is a bit presumptious

2) in the long term, what makes you think the LBA - BHD/BFS market will be any different to the NCL-BHD/BFS or BRS-BHD/BFS markets? Both these airports seem to support links to both Belfast airports and have catchment areas that are quite similar to LBA

Maybe a sensible approach for someone who doesn't work in the industry is to reserve any sort of comment until the routes have had chance to settle down and we see a more normal trading pattern begin to emerge?

loco

[ALLMCC]

Going loco

Accept what you say - however, in his post Glynn Kayes quoted Flybe's poor loads and tactfully made no comment about Jet2's - where there are 2 carriers involved surely it is foolhardy to assume that one is seriously hurting the other without the benefit of figures to support this? - a classic case of misinformation!

In Jet2's initial blaze of publicity when the route commenced in November last, the "introductory" £1 fare was to last until the end of that month - we are now midway through January and the fare is still being offered - a sure sign that Jet 2 are far from making the killing they (and others) predicted - also their summer schedule shows no increase in frequency despite forecasts from some that it would double!

Perhaps it is too early to make a definitive judgement but I believe that in the long term Flybe will be the winners in this battle!

[Chillwinston]

ALLMCC

But isnt Flybe the established carrier, with I presume, an established customer base and Jet2 being the "new boy on the block", the introductory pricing is surely to generate traffic for future pax?


And I for one took advantage of the new service, 1st class from booking in to arrival and if they had'nt of been offering the offer then i'm sure I would of gone elsewhere, so its hats off to Jet2.

I wish both Jet2 & Flybe all the luck

[BEST L/CONTROLLER]

Noticed your posts regarding Jet2 a/c on ground alot at LBA, you've obiousley passed the airport at the wrong times,

The following is an example of a typical Thursday schedule at LBA for Jet2:

0625 LBA-ALC returning at 1250
0650 LBA-GVA returning at 1130
0700 LBA-AMS returning at 1030
0715 LBA-BFS returning at 0935
0910 LBA-FAO returning at 1610
1200 LBA-PRG returning at 1655
1255 LBA-BCN returning at 1930
1330 LBA-AGP returning at 2010
1820 LBA-AMS returning at 2130
1830 LBA-BFS returning at 2050

That is a normal Thursday for Jet2 at LBA all their a/c that they have are all operating on Thurs and it's gonna get bussier come 28th March 2004.

Jet2's 6th a/c arrives at LBA early March04 G-CELD

CHEERS!!!

[LBAir]

So Best L/Controller

What's a typical summer thursday going to look like then??????:cool:

[JobsaGoodun]

I think we need to appreciate that Jet2 are trying to establish themselves on the LBABFS route and it is inevitable that loads on Flybe's flights will drop following the introduction of Jet2's new services.

Travellers are going to want to try the new service to establish it's benefits over Flybe's. I think that due to this it would be too early to start implying that Flybe loads have dropped off for any other reason than there being a 'new kid on the block'.

I think you also have to weigh in the fact that the majority of Flybe's passengers are not paying £1 for their fares. It is easy to fill an aircraft if you only charge £1 but you need to make it pay over a longer period.

I suggest we wait a few more months before we start to question who is getting the lion share of the business on this route.

[BEST L/CONTROLLER]

I agree, Flybe's figures have dropped of but only ever so slightly, there is still a big market for the traveler who want to go to Belfast to use the City airport (BHD) such as bussiness travelers, they don't want to the journey from Aldergrove (BFS) into the City,

Jet2 have not affected KLM AMS figures one bit, granted KLM are mostly connecting flts but still, it shows there is a number of people using that route,

I personally think some sort of German route would do quite well out of LBA, but someone mentioned earlier that noone can fly to FRA or MUC coz they're not in the Star Alliance, I'm not sure i can't really comment, but I do know that Jet2 applied for slots to go to FRA and the only they could get was going to make the flt arrive back at LBA at 0030am which obviously for a scheduled carrier is very late,

I'd like to see something like TXL, SXB, DUS, STR it's always possible, I really hope they do very well, coz they havn't half put LBA on the map.

BRGDS

CHEERS!!!!!

[ILS32]

Speaking purely as a selfish individual I would like Jet2 to fly to Rome.Last time I flew there it was on a day trip.Much cheaper if it was £1 or taxes only.Then I could afford to buy an icecream at the Trevi Fountain.

[BEST L/CONTROLLER]

There was a rumour, and only a roumour now, when a jet2 crew member was over heard saying there may be a route to Rome CIA that would be cool??

CHEERS!!!

[ILS32]

Rumours have to start somewhere otherwise there would be no need for this forum.I hope that it is true and that Jet2 can get the required slots.I think Rome would be a better prospect than Bergamo.

Fingers crossed.

[BEST L/CONTROLLER]

Milan Bergamo was a bit of a droop, they filled most of the flights really, but I suppose if they're giving the tickets away they won't make money,

I have to admit, it makes me giggle when Low cost airlines decide to operate to airports 2hrs out of city, such as Milan Bergamo, its about 1hr from Milan, also where ryanair go, Frakfurt HAHN, what a joke that one is, and this is no word of a lie, I flew with Ryanai to PARIS Beuvaise or how ever you spell it, it took me 3 and half hrs to get into the centre of Paris on public Transport,

You know why they do it, its because they probably land for free or at a great discount, but peaople still fly to these places, it hasn't really put too many off there is obviously still a market.

CHEERS!!!!!!!

[Fandango71]

I wouldn't be too surprised if JET2 looked at Lisbon - due to two reasons, a good city break destination that is underserved by low cost carriers, or main line carriers from the north. In addition, there will be great demand this year due to the Euro 2004 football event.

Naples would also be a good choice if they were to look at Italy, further south than the usual Italian routes and would attract the Amalfi coast brigade.

Personally, I'm hoping for Frankfurt and Budapest - although the latter is fairly unlikely.

[c.r.m what is it]

the new route that i want is to london-gatwick, please, please, please!!!!!!!!

[LBAir]

To the best of my knowledge, JET2 have already looked at Lisbon (not public though, obviously) I guess they'll have to anounce it shortly if they're thinking of the football. Wether or not Lisbon would work after the football, I'm not sure.

I do know that the airline is frantically looking for new destinations and i'm sure more will be anounced soon.

from YORKSHIRE:ok: the place to be is the City of Leeds.

[BEST L/CONTROLLER]

Watch this space!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[eurostar builder]

There was a Jet 2 737 sat at Bournemouth yesterday next to a 777.

Not sure what this was doing there,,,

[stevobeevo]

I've been told that the Jet2 737 at BOH yesterday was bringing a football team down to play Southampton. No more than that, at this time anyway. Fingers crossed for the future though.:ok:

[LBAir]

:) JET2 where in BOH picking up Leeds Utd who had played Southampton and lost!!!!:ouch:

[BEST L/CONTROLLER]

NEVERMIND LEEDS!!!!HA HA HA HA;)

CHEERS!!!1;)

[eurostar builder]

A report on the Local Southampton news said the Leeds football team flew into Bournemouth in Jet 2 plane because it was cheaper than flying to southampton.

No thats a good point.

[Tower Ranger]

Glynn , trust you enjoyed NY, can you post the load factors/ a; figures for Jet 2 for fair comparison............

[eastern wiseguy]

Tower wrote



can you post the load factors/ a; figures for Jet 2 for fair comparison............


surely commercial and in confidence old boy....but keep posting Jerseys':E :E

[glynn-kayes]

Hi Tower,been very busy recently since coming back from new year hols and ended up in AMS instead of NYC.Bit of a difference but its a long story,anyway LOADS,well according to me mate RHONDA,who works for TBI,JET2 loads are averaging 75 to 85 percent full and are close to taking the majority share of the route within the next few weeks.I have looked at the caa figures and by now its about 53percent JET2,47percent FLYBE so it looks like they have the majority already so RHONDA.S a bit behind by a few weeks....................................................... .........................

[ALLMCC]

Glynn, and RHONDA would say that, of course, after all she works for TBI doesn't she? - still waiting for official JET2 loads - yawn yawn!

[glynn-kayes]

ALLMCC.CAA figures actually,oh.but you wouldent know. I forgot you dont work in the industry.

[brabazon]

you could try looking here:

http://www.caa.co.uk/erg/erg_stats/sgl.asp?sglid=3

in a couple of months time they will have the traffic figures for Jet2's service (they are usually 3 months behind)

[ALLMCC]

Latest statistics on CAA website are for Oct 2003 - how then can Jet 2's loads from BFS be available especially when the service only commenced on the 17 Nov?

[flapsout]

Provisional Data for November and December Available in the provisional stats section of the CAA website :ok:

[Frankfurt_Cowboy]

Did I dream it or did someone post on here that LBA-BRS was rumoured? I know it's got nothing to do with Belfast but nevermind.

[MerchantVenturer]

Frankfurt_Cowboy,

I have not heard that rumour around here.

As I am sure you know, the route has been tried in the past but, for various reasons, it did not last.

A decade or more ago Brown Air/Capital Air tried it, then more recently BACx found themselves with some J 41s available and operated LBA-BRS twice a day until they pulled out of LBA altogether. I don't know how the route did in the short time BACx operated it, but it was never really given a chance IMO.

I am sure there is a market (after all NCL-BRS runs to three easyJet 737s each day) but as always price, good scheduling and sensible marketing will be the key.

Air Southwest is starting PLH-BRS-MAN this spring. In theory there should be a market for that route. If it goes well they might be encouraged to try BRS-LBA if no-one else steps in first.

[LBAir]

Ref domestic flights at LBA......

It would be great to see JET2 move in on domestic services Gatwick, Bournemouth, Newquay and Bristol have all had a wink and a mension on various posts.

One problem the LBA has at the moment though is the lack of domestic arrivals facilities. It only has one very small belt catering for small flights of upto around 50 passengers, however I am reasonably informed that the extension of this facility is due to commence very shortly. I can only presume that there is a good reason for this to take place.

from:ok: YORKSHIRE the plave to be is the City of Leeds.

[jetfour]

Dubya is looking for somebody to go to MARS!

Just a thought.:D

[Frankfurt_Cowboy]

Yeah, it'd be a quid to get there and eighteen billion to get back.

[BEST L/CONTROLLER]

The problem with the BRS routes in the past when BACX and GILL AIR before them operated, the fares were inbetween £150 - £250 each way, that's why it never did well, the flts never went in to double figures, if someone like JET2 offer low cost fares to BRS then I personally think it would work,

But that's my opinion.

CHEERS!!!!!!!!!!:ok: