US UH-60 crash in Iraq, 8 dead

[TheStormyPetrel]

U.S. Helicopter Crashes in Iraq, Killing at Least 8
By JOHN F. BURNS and KIRK SEMPLE
Published: January 8, 2004

BAGHDAD, Iraq, Jan. 8 — An American military helicopter crashed in Iraq today killing all eight people on board, the American military said.

The helicopter, a UH-60 Black Hawk, came down south of Falluja, a city 35 miles west of Baghdad that has been the scene of heavy resistance to the American-led occupation.

"We do not have any information on the cause of the crash at this time," a military spokeswoman, Spc. Nicci Trent, said.

The helicopter, which was carrying four crew members and four passengers, was on a medical evacuation mission when it crashed, Specialist Trent said, though she provided no further details about the mission.

full report (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/08/international/middleeast/08CND-IRAQ.html?ex=1074229200&en=e65a7ed19a2e6f76&ei=5062&partner=GOOGLE)

Late edit to update the number dead. So very sad.

[NRDK]

Times update

'Rocket' brings down Black Hawk

Nine American troops have been killed when a Black Hawk helicopter on a medical mission went down in Iraq's violent Sunni Triangle. Brigadier General Mark Kimmitt the helicopter made an "emergency landing" near Fallujah, where rebels have forced down three helicopters since November. A witness said he heard the whoosh of a rocket, saw it hit the aircraft in the tail and watched the chopper crash in flames.

-------------------

Tragic loss..condolences

[rotornut]

it hit the aircraft in the tail

Picture in this morning's Globe & Mail (Toronto) tends to confirm that. TR appears to be missing but rest of the machine seems to be OK except for landing gear.

[SASless]

The evening news had an account of the crash. The really sad part of the story....one of the pilots had been an Army Ranger in Somalia during the big fight there that killed 18 Americans and resulted in the Book and film...."Blackhawk Down". His Humvee took a direct hit from an RPG during that fight in Mogadishu but he was not wounded. He went to flight school after that fight...has a brother in Iraq who is also a Blackhawk pilot. He was due to rotate home in a month....leaves a wife and a one year old child.

We bury another helicopter pilot in South Carolina tomorrow. She was killed in the OH-58 shootdown a short while ago. The paper ran a story about her....told of her Mother giving her a letter she had written in the Third Grade telling of her life's goal of becoming a pilot. Mom gave her the letter the day of her graduation from Army Flight School all those years later.

Think I will go watch the snow fall for a bit....maybe that will help.

[NickLappos]

Sasless,

May she rest in peace.

I thought we had collectively learned our lesson back in Nam. Guess not. Got a son heading over there next month. Now I know how my Dad felt when I told him I'd enlisted back in 1968.

No snow here, just bitter cold, dark skies with brittle stars glittering.

[Thomas coupling]

It is tragic. It seems to be a weekly event now, the death of another soldier over in Iraq.
This is going to be the cost incurred for policing the world, it seems.
The Americans have taken the lead here and I personally applaud their remit. I genuinely believe that by doing it this way (early interdiction), lives will be saved, long term. This is the new age. Old concepts have to be jettisoned. Welcome to a new era of trying to maintain world peace.

The question to all you doubters out there is:

What other way is there to prevent what would eventually result in nations going to war with each other and hundreds of thousands dying?

[I am not so naive as to believe the US are doing this out of the kindness of their heart! Far from it. There is most definitely an element of self preservation and self interest here. BUT (a) isn't that what every nation wants, and (b) let's thank our lucky stars it is the US and not some anarchical nation]

Rant over!

[RDRickster]

SASless, I've been following those stories, as well. Sad events; especially the twist of fate for the Ranger. The OH-58 story is tough, too.

Nick, our prayers with your son. Thank him for his service and sacrafice. You must be proud. I hope he has the most boring time of his life, followed by even more boredom. You know what I mean.

TC, what can I say? :ok: We completely agree on something! :D

[apollon]

Don't feel to bad for them...
The reason why they are there is to take human life.
Lets face reality !!!


Yes, let's.

The 'reality' is that, whether or not allied forces should ever have invaded Iraq or be occupying it now, politicians make such decisions, not servicemen.

The 'reality' is that some servicemen lose their lives whether or not they agree with the politicians' decisions.

The 'reality' is that one of our members has a son going there next month and, reading about others not coming home alive, expressed his entirely natural anxiety to his friends.

The 'reality' is that your response was callous and inappropriate and is unwelcome here. If you wish to argue politics, try Jetblast.

Heliport
Moderator

[SASless]

Apollon,

The last aircraft shot down by the Iraqi's bore large Red Crosses upon each side, carried no weapons, and was on a medical evacuation mission. That does not seem to be a group of people there to take lives....but rather people dedicated to saving life both friendly and enemy. Would you feel the same if it had been a load of Iraqi POW's being transported in that Air Ambulance?

Being a fixed wing pilot maybe you do not understand that concept.:mad:

[Hoss-Fly]

You all should have heard the tirade of curse words over the ICS of my UH-60 whenever I was picking up wounded Iraqi EPW's and there buddies would be shooting at me while ingressing/egressing the LZ. I once transported an Iraqi girl with a broken arm, including her family to a US hospital, so don't think we are over their just to kill. We are doing a lot of good over there, and I believe that when it all works out, the rest of the middle east will see how better off Iraq is with democracy and freedom, and will throw off the shackles of a dictatorship. I really believe that what we are doing now will make the world a little better off in the long run. And I will keep saying that mantra to myself as I board the plane for my second trip back - LOL!

Fly Army,

Vince Rodgers

[sycamore]

At the risk of stating the obvious, and I hope it will not offend any participants , but; were any of the helos that have been shot down equipped with RWR/ IRCM/ Chaff/flares autonomous/ automatic systems ; were they flying in areas over known unfriendlies; were they flying in such areas with / or without gunship escort, or even fast-mover escort; where were/are all the Apaches ?.
It seems as though no-one knows how some of the a/c were shot down until a local is asked by someone in the media-- if the a/c were escorted , then it should be obvious that any rag-head will think twice about facing a gun-ship?
I agree with Nick. lessons seem to be forgotten from the experience of past conflicts-- the " Wheel" has to be reinvented
at the expense of those who work the front-line...

:sad:

[SASless]

Blender Pilot was nice enough to post the photos for me...John Eacott also tried but notwithstanding his fine effort to educate me upon this....Technology beat me.

Capt. Kimberly Hampton, US Army, Killed In Action while flying an OH-58 helicopter a short while ago.

http://homepage.mac.com/helipilot/PPRuNe/Kim1.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/helipilot/PPRuNe/Kim2.jpg

The reason for the photos is to put a face to one of the people we are discussing here.

The sad part of war is that young people on both sides are being harmed...and when we talk about their loss....on either side...we should remember what we are talking about. They are sons, daughters, fathers, mothers, and will be missed by their families no matter which side they they were on. Political arguments fail to include the real costs of war...and that is the loss the families have to endure.

Several PPruners have children there, or are headed there themselves. I am just glad I do not have to carry that burden.

Nick, my prayers will include your son and his well being....and Vince...keep your head down and remember lots of us are thinking about you while you are in harm's way....come home safe too.

[OFBSLF]

When will this madness (sadness) stop?Never.

While this particular war/occupation may end, there will always be war somewhere. How many wars are currently underway across the world? 30? 100?

[Decks]

Sincere condolences from Ireland to all who have lost their lives... And my heart goes out to anyone worrying over a loved one at this time... I sit at shannon and watch those ATA planes roll by and cant help but feel for those on board.
Nonetheless, as with everything in life I will always feel that those who question things and take a stand are the most brave and I feel very strongly that in this war we have all been misled and it is wrong. Misled by someone who to most of the world, is looking like a mirror image of the worst of dictators.... The U.S. presence in Somalia Bosnia and many other conflicts have been of course a great thing. But clearly there is no more reason to be Iraq than half the rest of the countries on this planet.
If I had a relative in Iraq I would be proud of them, but gunning for Mr. Bush.
PS I am a U.S. citizen.

[SASless]

Decks,

Gunning for Bush? Saddam murdered hundreds of thousands of his own countrymen...had tongues cut out of protesters mouths...tortured people. Should the world sit back and ignore this kind of behaviour? It was okay to go into Somalia...Bosnia...Kosovo...why not Iraq? Your logic loses me? Care to explain your position and support your statement with facts and data or some documented evidence that would suggest the United Nations Resolutions were improper or illegal. I am missing something here...what is it? How many Billions of dollars did his regime steal from the Iraqi people...how many Billions were spent on Palaces for Saddam? How many of his people died fighting his wars of aggression?

I would suggest it was time to clean up a very dirty neighborhood...and the European nations that were his patrons turned their back on a moral duty to end such evil conduct.

[Heliport]

OK guys .....

A thread purely about the human side of the war is no problem - the loss of helicopter crews in particular being very close to our hearts for obvious reasons - but a political debate will end badly.

I must accept some of the blame. Looking back, I should have edited the political parts of TC's post, and probably the political one-liner at the end of Rick's post.

Appolon took the brunt of my criticism because of his insensitive timing and callous remarks - just after Nick had mentioned his son was going to Iraq - but if the pro-invasion lobby makes political comments, I can't and won't stop others responding with counter-arguments. Opinions are divided on both sides of the Atlantic, and both bodies of opinion are entirely respectable.

Confining comments to the human aspects is all well and good in theory, but it's obviously not working in practice - and I seriously doubt if it can.

We have a 'No Politics' rule. If people think that should be changed, we can discuss it and see what the majority of Rotorheads want.

In the meantime .....

No more political comments by either side.


Heliport

[Helipolarbear]

Heliport, - I think political comments are a natural part of an opinion in the first instance. South West Asia is a very emotive point in the humane and political sense. It would be wrong for Helipilots as a collective group to have to constantly move back and forth from the Jet Blast forum to give an opinion on what are essentially our own peers comments and influences. Of course manners and respect is expected at all times. Is it not your position to moderate (censor) those individuals who don't respect the laws of the forum? With that in mind there should be no reason why Helipilots from all countries can not have a healthy discussion about their professional or personal opinions...especially where it concerns the lives of Helipilots and all the wonderful people that help us do our jobs with helicopters.
Military or Civilian, Iraq or Iceland. At the end of the day it's the shared learning experiance that counts, otherwise what other use would this particular forum be for?
Just my thoughts.:cool:

[Heliport]

By "We have a 'No Politics' rule", I meant PPRuNe has a 'No Politics on the forums' rule.
JetBlast allows limited political discussion but it's closely monitored to make sure it doesn't get out of hand. Experience shows that people frequently confuse attacking arguments with attacking the people who put the argument forward. A specific forum for political/current affairs discussions was recently closed as an experiment that didn't work - creating very bad feeling between members was one of the respects it didn't work.

We discussed allowing political threads on Rotorheads a couple of years ago, but the general consensus amongst the regulars then was that this is a helicopter forum and discussing politics/religion isn't a good idea.