Orlando Flight Training

[Poontang Luva]

Hi,

First of all before anyone tells me to do a search, I have, and have read quite a few opinions.

Some of those however have requested that ppl private msg them or email. I have done this for a number of users but have yet to get a response.

So now if anyone can provide me with some info on this place id greatly appreciate it - either here or through PM.

I want to do the CPL in a twin over there and was wondering how many twin aircraft the school has?

Is there any truth that the Cabair students get preferential treatment?

And finally what was your general opinion of the school, instruction, housing etc?

Thanks

PL

[Global Pilot]

Good to see you soing all you can to recieve information on an organisation before you commit to them. Sorry but my information on Orlando Flight training is a few years old and they hae changed quite radically in that time. My experience of them was of a really poor flight training organisation. I turned up in Orlando for 2 weeks to complete IMC training, one look at the school and I went looking elsewhere. This was just before Cabair involvment and since then things have changed. I don't have current information but applaud you for doing what you can to protect your investment. Whatever school you choose, it will not all be what it is advertised as. For what it is worth, I did multi IR at European Flight Training (based at Fort Pierce KFPR) and found them to be an excellent FTO. A bit expensive chargeing European rates for US aircraft; a/c that had done quite a few touch and gos.

Keep searching and don't sign anything before you go or indeed pay any money up front. In my opinion the best run FTO can afford to wait to get paid for flight training untill you actually fly the plane.

Good Luck and if i hear anything about Orlando in the meantime I will post it here.

rgds,

[maeshyfryd]

Bunch of money grabbing idiots as far as I'm concerned. Booked to go in April of 2003. The cab ride from the airport promised did'nt show. They had'nt scheduled me for aircraft as I was hour building. Charged me 175 dollars insurance - on top of the $4 per hour I think for some further bonus insurance surcharge. $98 per hour for a Warrior with GPS - cheaper than UK but expensive for US. Not sure how well the aircraft are looked after. I could go on.

So my advice and opinion is try Naples or EFT !

[Poontang Luva]

Global Pilot & maeshyfryd,

Thanks for the responses! ;) I've had 3 replies now (1 thru email), and all have been quite negative! Not lookin too good at the moment.............

EFT was my number 1 choice - heard good things about them and a friend was there in Dec and had no complaints.

Unfortunately they dont do a ME CPL which is a bit of a bummer. I really want a ME CPL only because my logbook has over 900hrs of SE time and id rather build up some more multi!

I didnt realise Naples were back up and running (DuH!). Any opinions of them anyone? Their website is the best i've seen so far but you never judge a book by the cover do ya??!

Thanks again for the replies :ok:

[Buter]

Did my multi at OFT, wouldn't reccomend it. None of my friends who have trained at OFT, even after the partnership with CABAIR, have anything good to say. Doing ATPL's with guys who have nothing bad to say about Naples. There are also some very cheap places in California, but I do not know aynone who has trained out there.

Best of luck,
Buter

[Poontang Luva]

Cheers for the info Buter! :ok:

Sheesh - 100% negative feedback so far....... OUCH!

Just got a very informative reply from my 'inquiry' email to Naples.

Looks quite promising......

[T O G A Boy]

Hi. dont know much about the orlando flying school, but if u are thinking about a good professional Faa school, then why not get in touch with flightsafety international, in vero beach florida. when i trained there they were faa and caa. dont know now. couldnt have studied in a better place.. Good luck and safe flying...;)

[Charlie Zulu]

Hi Poontang Luva,

I was one of those people you msg'd!!!

Although I read your PM several days ago I was busy at the time and thought I'd reply a little later in the day. However I forgot and was only reminded when I saw your post here!!!

Er, oops... memory like a fish here! Where would I be if paper and pens weren't invented to copy clearances, eh? ;)

I've sent you a PM now about OFT, but it is quite negative, along the same lines as the posts above.

As for NAC... I've only just read on this thread that you've only just realised they're back up and running.

I stayed with them for the duration of a month last July and obtained my FAA CPL/IR (Single Engine). Nothing bad to say, the instructors are good, friendly atmosphere, not the cheapest school but very very good. The planes (PA28 and PA28R) were in good nic, the Arrow IV had a Garmin 430 (not updated so VFR only) and they also have a 1999 C172 which was in prestine condition! Whilst I was at NAC their Seminole PA44 was in the hangar receiving a big maintenance so didn't get a go in that, unfortunately (it was back online on my last day in the USA!).

Best wishes,

Charlie Zulu.

[pipergirl]

hi there poontang!

i went 2 OFT about two years ago and I was very lucky in some respects. I met the nicest bunch of people(students that is) and made some great mates, and if we had not developed this little support structure, things could have been different.

I was messed around a lot at the start getting aircraft slots etc.. and if I hadn't put my foot down, this would have continued. I thought the ground instruction led a lot to be desired. It was non-existant and as i said earlier, if there hadn't been for the fact a bunch of us got together and mucked in, we would have been bugg@red!

I could go on all day about my expereinces there, but basically I found-

1.They were always trying to pull a fast one were money was concerned.

2.The cessnas were in an apalling state of dis-repair, so much so that I changed my PPL course to the warrior as I didn't want to head home in a wooden box.

3.Generally, they just didn't give a f@ck about any of the students standard of learning, they wanted to take ur money and push u out the door.

4.loads of hidden little charges that they never told me about. No taxi appeared at the airport for me. I had to make my own way and pay for it too.

Too much to say, too little time...
In a nutshell, don't bother your arse.
Loads of guys I work with (and who are now professional pilots) went to EFT and it has a good rep.
I heard good praise for Naples too.
Generally, what ur doing is correct, ask around, get some feedback about a few different schools and take it from there.
Best of Luck with the CPL and ur future career :D
PG

[Flying Felix]

Just come back from OFT. Better than some schools I have been to. Yes problems with aircraft going tech and delays due to weather, but it is what you expect with aviation. As for being ripped off - not me I knew what I was going to be charged from day one and looked at my propossed bill from the start. I had very good instructors. The $175.00 insurance charge is to remove the excess and is voluntary. No bad comments on OFT.

[maeshyfryd]

They would'nt allow me to rent an aircraft unless I paid the "voluntary" $175. So did'nt have a choice. And I already had my own insurance anyway which I was told was not ok !

[Jinkster]

OFT - great students out there, instructors were good (the one's I had anyway), management was a bag of :mad:

However Cabair I have found to be totally different so dont get the bad opinion about Cabair as OFT has.

Jinkster

[zickler]

Unfortunately, not a lot of nice things to say about the place. Was there in summer 03, and the place was a complete mess. From the moment you arrive, hidden charges start popping up everywhere, the $175 insurance surcharge and on top of that you pay $4 an hour surcharge on every hour you fly. The way their charge their students is quite dodgy as well. Almost every week, while going through my accounts I used to find the odd flight in there which I never flew etc.

The fleet at OFT ... well it speaks for itself really, at least when I was there.. A decent 172 & a couple of ok warriors. Most of the 152's were in a really bad state to say the least. Leaking fuel tanks, dented wing leading edges, u/s transponders, no night lights for instruments, no working vor's, are just a few of the things I've seen myself. The recent crashes they've had recently say it all. When I was flying the PA44 there it was all the time going tech, and I've heard that the 2 BE76's they've got now are not much better either.

Management totally unconcerned about student progress. Never bothered coming out of their office to face the complaints; just to try and get a few more quid off you.

Wouldn't bother with them again, plenty of decent & cheaper flying schools in FL.

[busz]

Well, certainly a lot of negative comments.

Ok, so OFT may have a few problems with their operation, but i found it to be satisfactory overall. However, i achieved what i set out to do when i went over there, namely come home with a JAR ppl, so i cant fault them in that respect.

Within the school, there are a couple of really good points, one of them being the instructors (mine was excellent - you know who you are), and the friendlyness of the place. All of the students there were extremely friendly, and i certainnly met a few characters. My standard of instruction was excellent, and i never heard any complaints off any of the other students when i was there.

I agree about the planes though, certainly the cessna 152s had seen better days, but they flew. At first, i thought that the management were unfriendly and did not care. Later however, when i had problems with my accommodation, they were very apologetic and reasonable about the situation. If you do go there, i would reccommend staying in the Sheraton/ Best Western, or even the Days Inn, which is where i stayed for most of my trip. (It is further down than the Best Western, opposite the 7-11.)

As i said, i was happy with the service they provided, and didnt see any hidden extras, i too knew exactly how much i was being charged and why.

Hope this helps.

Alex:ok:

PS, seems like some people on this thread spent too much time at the winghouse and not enough studying. Remember, it is up to you to do the studying. As far as i am aware, the groundschool was a bonus, not included in the price. The ground school when i was there (Jun-Jul 2003) was very good.

[mazzy1026]

If you want to return to the UK after you have completed your license then I would advise you not to go at all.

I was considering going to OFT myself until I did some research.

A cousin of mine is an ATPL flying instructor and he has had students that got screwed when coming back to the UK for licensing. The standard is completley different in the US (ATC, aircraft, regulations, weather etc) and the CAA do take note of this.

If you want to be a commercial pilot in the UK then the best thing you can do is train here.

Obviously its not impossible but a major risk.

[Oneday78]

Mazzy,

take your point, but are you refering to the FAA PPL which you then convert to start gaining your APTL?. As surely if you complete the JAA PPL in the US you have to pass the same exams etc as you would over here and the training should not be so different (?).

TC

[mazzy1026]

Yes thats what I thought originally for the JAA, but according to the advice I have received (and my own opinion) due to the fact that you are spending your money in the USA, the CAA dont like this as your not in their'back yard' and would rather you be spending it over here. I thikn thats why they make it difficult to get the license. Like I say, I do know of people who have been and done JAA approved courses and been refused a license upon return for one reason or another.

Also when a potential employer looks at where you trained, surely they would rather you have been tought in the UK (presuming a UK job)?

Regards

Lee :)

[pipergirl]

Busz-

I agree with you that studying is the responsibility of the individual. But it is a different story when somebody pays for a course which stipulates that ground school is included, it is annoying, to say the least.(Ground school was included in the price when I attended)

A number of ground school classes were offered and when we turned up they had been cancelled because the instructor couldn't be arsed. If the instructor did not have a flight with a student on the 2-3 hour run up to the scheduled groundschool, they went home and did not return. We were never told of the cancellation until we turned up for the class. It was very annoying and a waste of time. Complaints about this fell on deaf ears.

A few of us got together and organised a study group and helped each other out. Afterall, you can get stuck when studying alone.

I do not see the relevance of your parting comment. I cannot see any evidence from any of the previous posts which suggests people spent too much time in "the winghouse"...:hmm:

[FlyingForFun]

I do know of people who have been and done JAA approved courses and been refused a license upon return for one reason or anotherI've never heard of that before. Could you give some examples of the reasons which were given?

FFF
-----------

[mazzy1026]

FFF - I too had never heard this before, and when I did I was shocked because I was quite looking forward to going to Florida, however, this news was given to me by a proffessional who has had experience of his students being denied. Thats all I can say really so it's a risk i'm not willing to take !

Lee :ok:

[BillieBob]

I do know of people who have been and done JAA approved courses and been refused a license upon return for one reason or another By law, the CAA cannot refuse to issue a licence or rating if someone has done an approved course of training. Anyone who is refused is entitled to appeal under Regulation 6 and have the whole thing investigated by an independent panel.

In the unlikely event that someone has been refused it is probably because they have been lied to by the school, which does not hold the approval it says it does, or because the training has not been completed in accordance with the approval.

I do recall talking to a young lass in the bar at our local flying club who had been refused an IMC rating after a course at a well known Florida school because the training she had done there bore no resemblance to the course that had been approved by the CAA.

It is no skin off the CAA's nose where you do your training, if they were that bothered about it, they wouldn't issue the approvals to overseas schools in the first place - or would make it impossible for them to operate. Thousands of people have trained for JAA licences in the USA and elsewhere and have had those licences issued by the CAA with no problems at all. What's more, plenty of those now fly for UK and other European operators who don't give a toss where the training was done, so long as you have the licence and can pass the sim check. After all, BA used to send its cadets to the USA and Australia for training before it closed down the scheme.

With the USD at its present level, there is every reason for training in the USA. Even if you have to fly a few hours dual back here before a club will hire you an aircraft, it'll still be much cheaper overall and a darned sight quicker.

[Arrowhead]

What a load of rubbish has been written here.

OFT uses CAA approved examiners (sometimes flown over from UK schools such as Atlantic in Coventry, sometimes resident British examiners in Florida) who then take the tests in N registered aircraft checking you are observing the local rules and regulations of the US. Your exam form is signed by the examiner, and OFT has its own CAA authorisation for PPLs and IMCs (except CPLs which is done under Cabair authorisation). The CAA receives tens of these US-derived applications every month and is not "biased" at all.

And no, I am a happy ex-OFT student, not an OFT employee. PL I will send you a private message, but check my Flying in Florida post.

The continual problem seems to be PPL students go to Florida not checking out all the fees in advance (ask if there are any hidden or extra charges), expecting luxury accomodation for £20/night, and expecting aircraft that cost less than half of the UK price but have similar or better condition. WAKE UP EVERYBODY. Florida is cheap and cheerful (as opposed to cheap and nasty).

--->

[mazzy1026]

I never said training at OFT was a bad idea, I only suggested it can be a risk in Florida, like BB said, if you dont check out that they are CAA approved first. :cool:

[spitfire747]

bunch of money grabbing sharks....

no interest in student welfare, safety, availability, just make sure your account is in credit and F**k anything else
always difficult going to another country to spend alot of money on something without knowing the company
i certainly would NOT go back there.. ever

try Naples instead there Warriors at $73/hour and well maintained

[mazzy1026]

Spitfire - I would really love to think of OFT as a great school but I cant due to the shear amount of negative posts in pprune about it. Everybody always says the same - I think ive seen 1 positive comment out of about 20.

Lee

[Poontang Luva]

Wow! Thanks for all the responses everyone. It has been very helpful.

Mazzy your concern about CAA not recognising approved JAA training sounds a little odd (there probably are a few cases)..... If it was commonplace I have no doubt this board would be filled by people saying not to go to the US for training. Maybe the instructor was feeding you some fluff so that the school gets the business?? Thats commonplace! i'm not trying to bag your friend btw!;) Anyway a handful of bad experiences out of hundreds is not really much cause for concern.

I'm still planning on going to the US. To be quite frank the wx here is complete rubbish for CPL training. I have friends who had started their CPL stuff here and in the same time i've got my IR and MCC and had a good 5 weeks off in the meantime too. (I'm converting ICAO licences so any order is the go). I really cant be bothered wasting any time, and having to go through intermittant training trying to get the CPL.

Well after the majority of negative feedback concerning OFT i've decided on EFT. I know some guys that have gone there and had no major complaints. Naples are still waiting on the CAA to send their approval papers for CPL training so at this point in time they are a no go. Hopefully they will be able to start shortly.

Another reason to not go to OFT was that they never replied to my 3 inquiry emails....... so I guess they are doing great business and dont need any more from the likes of me........

Thanks again to everyone who has replied here and PM me!:ok: Very much appreciated! (keep posting too if you have anything to contribute, i've made my decision but theres probably a few people who havn't that are reading this thread so any more opinions wouldnt hurt!)

I'll let u all know how it goes over there and what I thought of EFT.

All the best
PL

[mazzy1026]

I would agree on not going to OFT. The instructor who gave me this info is family so doubt he would tell me lies, and he's not in this country anyway.

When I emailed OFT they were quick to reply and got a few emails off them, they kept reminding me to book early so they must be desperate.

How did you contact them ? Was it using the query form on the website? If so then yes they dont reply, I used the form that is used for making bookings - that must catch their eye quicker !

Best of luck poontang !

Lee

[RealWonder]

PL,

I was at OFT very recently and I have to agree with many of the posts here. OFT are crap.

OFT are interested in one thing and one thing only - that is your cash.

Some interesing observations:

The planes are in a terrible state.

When I was there many of the guys ended up leaving without gaining a PPL as they ran out of time, 3 weeks is not usually enough time to get a PPL at OFT.

There was a crash a couple of months ago in which the engine just packed up straight after take-off at 300ft - He was a lucky boy.

The owner drives a porche.

In answer to your question regarding if the Cabair students get preferential treatment - No. They were treated just as crap as everyone else as far as I could see.

Good points:

Kissimee is a good airport to train out of.

The Wings bar has some quite fit birds so when you've run out of cash and time you can have a crack at some of them!!

I obviously would not go back to OFT, however, some people had good experiences.

Good luck..