Lear Jet at 40...

[treadigraph]

Just got around to reading the latest copy of "General Aviation" (got it a while back, then got buried on my desk).

The Nostalgia page at the back, written by our favourite aviation journalist, celebrates forty years of Lear Jetting. I can't believe it! 40! Like Concorde, it still looks so modern a design and just keeps getting better (though am I alone in thinking those delta fins detract from its looks?).

So any memories and stories out there?

I remember standing on the top of Car Park 2 at Heathrow and watching the ex-demo Lear 25, G-BBEE, taking off from 28L in 197something. The crew cleaned it up quickly and held it low... somewhere abeam the fuel farm, they hauled it into a near vertical climb - or at least it appeared so from where we were standing - before pushing out into a more genteel rate of ascent at 1500' or so...

I also recall an American Lear, a 24 or 25, absolutely shoehorned into one of those blister hangars on the NE side of Biggin Hill. How they got it in I'll never know... It was called "The Bare Foot Princess" and I hope it wasn't in there when the hangar collapsed under the weight of snow.

Oh, and I'm pleased to see that Lear's daughter, Shanda, still uses her maiden name!

[Aerohack]

Treadders:

Well, blush, blush and thanks for the compliment!

I have one personal Lear reminiscence that I wasn’t able to squeeze into my GA page. It was 1960, and this then 14-year-old had taken the train from Portsmouth to Shoreham for a day’s aircraft spotting. I was sheltering from the light drizzle under one of the mouldering Miles Marathons when an American-registered, dayglo-bedecked Beech Super 18 landed and parked near the Miles enclave. Up I stepped, box camera in hand, and asked one of the occupants if I might photograph the aeroplane. This stocky, bespectacled gent readily agreed, but to my horror offered to pose in front of it. Somehow (I must have been more diplomatic then) I persuaded him that all I really wanted was a shot of the Twin Beech, and we went our separate ways. It was more than 30 years later that by chance I discovered that the inscription L.I.F.E. on the side of the Beech had had nothing to do with Life magazine, as I and many others supposed, but stood for Lear Integrated Flight Equipment. And the bespectacled gent whose portrait I had rejected was none other than Bill Lear, come to Shoreham to discuss with the Miles brothers some work on what was then still the SAAC-23 Execujet, later to become the Lear Jet 23.

As for looks, I’m with you Treadders. Whilst Lears have improved in every other area, to my eye none has ever looked as good as the original 23/24 with the bullet fairing at the fin/tailplane junction.

[No comment]

Still the best bizjet around, the older ones have a lot more character though, the later ones just look like everything else (although interiorwise theres no contest!)

Do I recall correctly there is/was a Lear on the display circuit in the US? Seen pictures of it inverted - red and black I think with smoke pods etc.

[treadigraph]

Correct, flown by Bobby Younkin (sp?). I'm looking forward to seeing that at the next US show I go to... I bet he doesn't do Bob Hoover-style energy management though!

Reminds me - I have heard that Bill Lear hired three pilots to demonstrate a Learjet formation at a US show (Reading?) and they rolled during one fly past... much to the crowd's delight and the Feds' fury!

[hjc]

Bobby Younkin's web site can be found here:
http://www.younkinair.com/

[Aerohack]

I bet he doesn't do Bob Hoover-style energy-management though!

Did you ever see Hoover's Sabreliner 65 demonstration? He didn't shut the engines down, but it was very 'spirited'. Rockwell brass put a stop to it, arguing that it wasn't the way to sell a serious business transport to captains of industry.

You're right about the Lear Jet 23 formation roll. It was at the Reading Air Show, 1965 I think. Bill Lear put them up to it of course, and promised to pay any fines imposed on the pilots by the FAA. Can't remember if he actually had to shell out.

[JDK]

Ah, Learjet.

Amazingly, I have been aboard one!

Got a 'lift' from Essendon to Morrabbin in a Lear, thanks to Mike Falls Snr over my old home of Melbourne in 1992. Bless the chap, he offered me a ride as I was being nosy and he had to reposition the Lear for a job. We got a lift in a 172, bumped accross the city, then got into the Lear. Mike offered me the co-pilot's seat (well, I accepted of course) and we shot back to Morrabbin in double quick time. I was initially -ah- concerned that my not-short legs (I'm 6'4" in old money) would restrict the controls and Mike certainly moved my feet about! The contrast in journeys was amazing, and it's the closest I've come to a fast jet flight (but MUCH more comfortable and classy).

One of my top aviation 10 minutes!

Cheers
James

[treadigraph]

They obviously made an impression as I can think of two rock music tracks from the 70s that mention Lear Jets...

A point for each band/artiste and the names of the tracks...

(The only other rock song I can think of that mentions a particular aeroplane is Tiger Moth by Steve Hackett).

No, I never saw Bob fly anything other than the Shrike, his last appearance at Reno in 1999 - awesome! I'd love to have seen his Mustang act.

James, you lucky...

[Aerohack]

Carly Simon, ‘You’re so vain’?

Flew with Bob in the Shrike at Reno in ’85. Effortless, but took a bit of getting used to seeing those big Hartzells both feathered. Had previously ridden with him during his Commander 114 routine at the Hanover Show in ’78 I think it was. Not such fun because I was in the back (to get a better viewpoint for fisheye lens pictures of him at work) and had only a lapstrap, so the inverted sequences weren’t too comfortable… That night or the next attended a barbeque at a hunting lodge where the cook was Adolf Galland and Hoover was drinking Tanqueray’s gin in straight-up glasses, neat (no, he wasn’t flying next day). Happy days (or daze).

[treadigraph]

Correct Aerohack!

Phew, I think I'd be a bit uncomfortable even with a diagonal!

Anyone recommend a Bob Hoover video, there must be something out there.

Anyone know the other song?

[Mr_Grubby]

Lear Jet Climb.

The rate of climb of the Lear has always been quite phenomenal. Back in the early ‘80s I worked one out of Heathrow going to Frankfurt. Straight off the deck it climbed like a Saturn 5. I ‘phoned the Dover sector and asked for further climb to prevent him from levelling off whilst he changed to their frequency. They gave me FL270 level by the boundary. That was the London / Maastrict UIR boundary about half way between DVR and KOK. I cleared the aircraft up telling him to be level by the boundary and he said he would have a go but it might be a bit tight. I thought this a bit strange given that he had not yet passed abeam Biggin and was still climbing like his life depended on it. I monitored his climb and as he passed Detling he levelled at FL270. Reporting level he said how it was a close run thing but he had made FL270 by the boundary. It was then that I realised that he was talking about the London TMA boundary, which in those days ran through Detling, not the UIR boundary. I hadn’t the heart to tell him. Incredible performance.

Clint.

[Kolibear]

Pink Floyd's 'Money' - is one I can think of that mentions a mention of Lear Jet, but there's a Kate Bush song that contains the line 'dropped from my black Spitfire to my funeral pyre'.

Then there's Neil Young's song 'You are like a Hurricane', not forgetting 'Mustang Sally' of course. Heart sang 'White Lightning & Wine'

Perhaps this needs a new thread

[JDK]

Heh, heh, heh.:p

Many, many thanks to Mike Falls (also operates with gusto a T6 racer and DC-3.) The T6 I've seen beind demoed at the RAAF Museum in 2002 to bring the museum and flight alive for the visitors. After doing an aerobatic sequence, talking over the PA at the time, he then landed and took questions from the (small) crowd. Points to that man for encouraging air mindedness. It would be good if the RAF Museum could do similar.:rolleyes:

C'mon, there's loads of a/c references if you look!

Dunno the other Learjet reference. There were several on covers of albums of various 'we want to look sickeningly rich' rock groups.

'Enola Gay' by OMD? Once partnered on a radio station with 'Atomic' by Blondie and then 'Who's Sorry Now.' Tasteful.
James

[Georgeablelovehowindia]

Yes, Mr_Grubby, an often told tale, except after a few beers down the pub it's the London Zone boundary not the TMA boundary! Even for a Learjet, that's just a tad hard to swallow, so I'm glad you've set the record straight.

[treadigraph]

Well done Kolibear, 2 points also...

Dunno that Kate Bush song! But real aircraft references as oppose to words that happen to be aircraft names...?

[airgage]

"Five miles out" by Mike Oldfield relating to an engine failure in inhospitable climes must get in there in terms of aviation in music?

[treadigraph]

"Eight Miles High" by the Byrds could possibly be related to Lear Jet travel, but I think they were thinking of a different travel dimension!

[simon niceguy]

When I first saw the start of this thread I thought great this has much potential for some interesting posts. Shame that apart from a few sensible posts it has now degenerated into something that would be more suitable on Jetblast.

Simon.

[Big Pistons Forever]

My two Lear Jet moments.

1. At CYVR. twr: Lear XXX how fast can you give to
ROSS (the FAF [ 3.3 mi end of runway ])

Lear XXX: 350 Kts ?

twr : Go for It !

2. Also at YVR at about 0300 local

twr: Lear XXX cleared for takeoff 08, right turn at pilots
discretion direct the YVR VOR ( about 9 nm S of
airport )

Lear XXX : You realise we will probably be going
through about FL 240 at the VOR

twr : I would expect nothing less from a Lear Jet !

[411A]

LearJet...phoooy!
A 'proper bizjet and...the first dedicated bizjet, the Lockheed 1329 JetStar.

A distinctive four engine design....nothing like it since either.
A proper "captains of industry" walk around design, something a Lear owner can only dream about.
Lear...enter on all fours, and feel like a sardine.

Later models are better tho....:E

[Aerohack]

The JetStar, like the Sabreliner, was designed to a military requirement and adapted to commercial use. And unlike derivatives of the original LJ, neither has been in production for many years. If you want to be really pedantic (and I usually do) the first business jet wasn't the Lear Jet either, but the Morane Saulnier M.S. 760 Paris, with which Beech had a brief flirtation.

[411A]

Actually Aerohack,
the L1329 was originally not a military design (unlike the NA-265)...according to the guys at Lockheed, and would expect them to know.... :ooh:, as they actually designed same.
We are considering the purchase of same...and a nice one it is too:ok:

[Aerohack]

Well, I too have talked to 'the guys at Lockheed'. Design of the CL-329 (not L-1329 then) was launched in January 1957 (under 'Kelly' Johnson's leadership) to meet the USAF's UCX (Utility Transport Experimental) requirement for an off-the-shelf aircraft. It was designed specifically to meet the UCX spec, 14 seats/5,000 lb cargo, then with two engines — Bristol Orhpeuses that in production form would have been licence-built by Wright. Whilst Lockheed always had had an eye on the commercial market, it was the subsequent cuts in military budgets and hold on USAF UTX (which became the T-39) and UCX acquisition that really drove development of the JetStar as a business jet. Without the prospect of a big military order it is unlikely there ever would have been a JetStar.

But what has all this to do with the original point of this thread? My article in 'General Aviation' and Treadders' reference to it was about the 40th anniversary of the Lear Jet 23's first flight, not which was the biggest or best business jet. And however you argue it, the Lear became an icon way beyond the business aviation community; the JetStar didn't.

[411A]

Suspect you have some duf gen about the L1329, Aerohack, but don't allow facts to get in the way of a good story. Fact is, you have your story slightly disjointed.
Lear as an icon?
Certainly not in the bizjet community 'round this part of the world.
For spotters in the UK, maybe so....:hmm:

[JDK]

Hey, 411A,
Thanks for contributing, but I think you're been' a bit too clever. Aerohacks given some facts, you've called 'em wrong, without providing counter facts. Not on really eh?

The thread was just about Lear memories, and you are entitled to prefer the Jetstar, however, if you do a vox pop among pop stars, 'captains of industry' etc, you'll find, I'm afraid, that all bizjets are 'Learjets' in the same way as all single engined prop fighters are Spitfires in the UK or Mustangs in the US...

Learjet memories here, ta, new thread on the wondrs of the Jetstar if you wih, by all means!

PS I'm an Aussie, living in Britain, married to a Canadian, with some US Family, and I've just retured from a visit to the Low counties - wide enough net for you? Call me a spotter, and it's drawn binnies at 20 paces btw...

Cheers!
James

[Aerohack]

Know better than 'Kelly' Johnson do you, 411A? I repeat, this thread is about the 40th anniversary of the Lear Jet which — like it or not — is an icon. The provenance of the JetStar doesn't come into it, but if you really do know better, show me a Lockheed design study for the CL-329 dated 1956 or earlier which is not in any way related to the USAF's UCX requirement. Do that and I'll concede, otherwise let's either close it or get back on thread.

[treadigraph]

Really 411A old chap, seems to be pretty iconic elsewhere.

I've also always been under the firm impression that the JetStar was designed to the USAF requirement referred to by Aerohack (and if I remember correctly, the McDonnell 119 was also a contender - remember that one, looked like a mini DC-8, with a bit of B-58 thrown in).

But how many were actually built? 250? Not a bad figure at all, but I would imagine that Lear Jets must number well over 1000 or more by now, and still going strong!

I concede your point about the size: I was shown around a 35A many years ago - they didn't give me ride as I was about 15 and quite clearly impecunious - and I do recall it seeming quite cramped, but it was very comfortable and, hey, are you going to spend the whole flight standing?

And I doubt that a JetStar could go vertical out of EGLL either!

I wish you luck with your acquisition: I suspect quite a few JetStars (and early Lear Jets) have heard the siren song and been lured into the axeman's smelter, so it's good to hear of one that will be kept flying and obviously cherished...:ok:

[Tim Mills]

I appreciate this should all be about the Lear Jet, but no one has mentioned the best, and best looking, of the bunch, the Falcon 20! But I have to admit I am prejudiced, and when people used to ask me what I flew, I tended to have to explain that it is 'like a Lear jet but bigger, and better looking!'

[Aerohack]

Treadders: I've probably got this wrong again ;) but yes, the McDonnell 119 was indeed the other final contender for the USAF’s UCX requirement. It took part in a 50-hour fly-off against the JetStar at Edwards AFB and lost out to the Lockheed design, even though McDonnell had reportedly been ‘given the nod’ by Air Force brass that theirs was the favoured contender — possibly before Lockheed switched to four engines. The 119 was later redesignated Model 220 for McD’s 40th anniversary (2 X 20, geddit?), and was used by Jim McDonnell as his personal transport. It still exists. I believe it's at El Paso, Texas.

[Iron City]

The first Jetstar is still around also. Until a few years ago it was owned by the U.S. FAA (Spent some time as N-1 on the register). Believe it is now owned by or bailed to a museum in New Jersey. Was always a pain to maintain because all the neat modifications, improvements, etc were always for ser no. 2 and on. Turns out that S/N 1 was/is unique structurally, systems, and control layout. Sabreliners somewhat like that to with CT-39 and T-39s one commercial off the shelf and the other "MIL-SPEC" (can't remember which is which) so none of the parts are interchangable.

[Ethel the Aardvark]

I heard of an australian target tow lear which had a partially deployed drone jammed under the wing and all attempts to cut the cable failed. I think they had to xfer fuel away from the drone side so as to lighten weight on the oleo, I think there was very little room for error and the pilot did a great job.
Also aparently they flip on their backs in a stall condition, Anyone know of more information.

PS does anyone know if Daniel flew in a lear, if so then Elton John sung about them. Do they have red tail lights or was it a cloud in my eye.

[Aerohack]

Iron City: So far as I know N1-as-was is at Pratt Community College in Kansas. It was the first production JetStar, later upgraded to JetStar 731, but the two-engined prototype also is still around, with a vocational school in Vancouver. I've heard that the second prototype, which started out as a twin but was converted to four JT12DA-6s following collapse of the Wright Orpheus licence production deal, is preserved at Andrews AFB, masquerading as a Presidential VC-140B (or 'Air Force One-and-a-Half', as LBJ is said to have called it).

[411A]

Well congrats Aerohack, you indeed got at least one bit right, the 220 is indeed in ELP, parked not far from an old Ports 'o Call CV990, another classic design. Believe there was a program to get it flying again, but nothing seems to have been done.
Unfortunate that these older aircraft cannot find a home, where they will be properly looked after, and flown occasionally...to the delight of many, I suspect.

Elvis Presleys red JetStar is parked out in Roswell, not all that far from Hangar 84, or at least it was last year.
Notice that an RVSM kit has been approved for the early Lears, so indeed many may still be around for awhine...if airports are selected that are not too noise sensitive.

Another classic that is still around is the G159 Gulfstream, the 'proper' Gulfstream, straight wings and RR Dart engines.
A nice old design that is a delight to fly.
Imagine it sitting on the ramp, nice and shiney, captains of industry entering, ordering up gin and tonics from the hostie, as it gracefully takes to the skies.

And, in this design, you can actually stand up to use the lav....:ok:

Yes, the LearJet may be an 'icon' (someplaces anyway), but heard a CEO refer to one of the earlier -20's as a 'kids wagon without the handle'.
Maybe he was just being kind.:E

[Aerohack]

<<congrats Aerohack, you indeed got at least one bit right>>

Oh, thanks, 411A! It's so nice to know that my past 30+ years as a professional aviation journalist, author and historian haven't been entirely wasted. Maybe the 20+ years as a member of the 'Jane's All the World's Aircraft' editorial team have been though, because they included time spent compiling the final entries for the JetStar...

Now, did you know that what became the Gulfstream started out as an adaption of a military aircraft, and...no, the Grumman design team and I are bound to have got it wrong.:rolleyes:

[treadigraph]

Well it says here... surely not... the original concept was a design based on the Grumman Tracker... I never knew that!

Aerohack, if ever you are visiting Jane's, it's only just down the road - stop by for a pint!

And Tharg - are you receiving, chap?