Have you been fingerprinted ?

[Cris L]

http://biz.yahoo.com/rc/040105/airlines_security_1.html

On Monday the U.S. began fingerprinting and photographing certain foreign travellers arriving at more than 100 U.S. airports.

Where's the announcement of this ? I do not like this at all.

It's making me reconsider my forthcoming trip to the US, scheduled for 2 weeks time.

I certainly don't want to be fingerprinted everytime I land at an airport, just to visit the USA.

I'm sorry but I think this step is ridiculous.

The 27 fingerprint exempt countries are:

Andorra, Australia, Austria, Belgium, Brunei, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Japan, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Monaco, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, San Marino, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, United Kingdom, Portugal and Singapore.

"I think there's going to be lots of changes as time goes on,'' said Nat Aycox, head of U.S. Customs and Border Protection in San Francisco. He noted that by Oct. 26, all 27 countries exempted from the new program would be required to have citizens' fingerprints encoded in new passports.

[Techman]

They also wanted your creditcard number, and a whole lot of other information about you, before departing to the US.

It's just part of what a Department of State Security does.

[ukeng]

Lets wait for the backlash from this one, they'll be asking for a DNA sample next...
Seems ridiculous to me to have exempt countries if your going for something as extreme as this, surely the bad guys will just use passports from those countries to enter the US - not that hard to get hold of.
Seem to me Mr Bush is trying to make his countrymen afraid to get out of their beds these days - once again it's the travelling public that takes a hammering and the terrrorists just have another simple to bypass hurdle to overcome.

[JJflyer]

Thats not the worst...

For a foreigner to do training in US one has to sign a "Release of information" form and thats a load of c.rap as well.

Link here http://www.flightsafety.com/securityreq/authorization.pdf

I just wont go to US anymore, will take my money elsewhere.

JJ

[mad_dog]

That form reads like a farce, even the spelling in the last paragraph is incorrect. Is this suppose to be a USA legal document. My word they are very dumb then if they don't know there 'form' from there 'from'.

MD

[DamienB]

Did I read that right? The USA want 27 countries to alter their passports to include a fingerprint?!

[The Ticketor]

Without taking any sides, there has been quite a lot of publicity around this new program, the US-VISIT program. VISIT is of course a cool acronym, and stands for "Visitor and Immigration Status Indicator Technology."

Here are some "highlights" from the papers I got at work on this thing:

* It applies (for now) only to pax with a VISA (including foreign aircrew on crew visa). Visa Waiver pax (from those countries you mentioned) are exempt. For now, I'd like to add (It's my personal belief that the VWP exemption will dissapear after the system has been tested for some time, but I don't know this for sure, just a guess).

* Entry process is launched 05JAN04 at 113 airports. Exit process will be launched when some technical issues has been solved.

* Entry process consists of, in addition to normal checks, scanning of fingerprints on left and right index finger on an inkless digital "fingerscanner" and a digital photo will also be taken of the person.

* When the Exit process is phased in (sometime during 2004), the same persons will have to register their departure from the US in self-service kiosks where they will again scan the fingerprints as well as their travel documents. Failure to do so might result in problems in obtaining a new visa or entering the US at a later date. There will be attendants available to help with this process.

* They will start with airports and seaports, and will add the US-VISIT system at land borders throughout 2004 and 2005.

Hope it helps.

[compressor stall]

Businessmen, and people on a visa longer than 3 months and students from the "exempt" countries will have to submit to fingerpriniting and photgraphing

[Feather #3]

Yes, and photographed. Takes about one minute and no hassles.

As to the overall effectiveness, the jury is OUT.

G'day ;)

[MAN777]

What on earth is going on, it seems to me that you (USA) are heading down a slipppery slope that is going to cripple your tourist industry, ruin your airlines and generally wreck what is left of any good will that us "foreigners" have for your country. Still all is not lost, Disneyland will be a lot less busy for you all, as we all choose "more friendly" destinations. This is not a generalisation, I personally know 4 families that have decided against holidays in Florida, they are not frightened of terrorism (we have lived with it for years in the UK) they just dont want to be pushed around by even more knee jerk reactions of a scared nation !

[The Ticketor]

Damien B,

On the passport thing, VWP-pax must have a biometric passport to travel under the VWP, if the passport is issued after 26OCT04.

I believe there has been talk about changing this to that ALL VWP-pax entering from 26OCT04 must have a biometric passport, regardless of when it is issued, but AFAIK, that is just a rumor.

Many countries are lagging behind in the development of biometric passports, and I think many VWP-countries will have a tough time offering biometric pspts to their citizen that early.

Heck, here in Norway, we started with the MRP's for real as late as this fall (before that, you could only get them in three police districts in the country)!!

But even after that date, with the current rules, you can still apply for a visa, even if you have the old type of PSPT. However, that may change as well. Time will tell...

[Crepello]

I'll let the wider concerns go for now, as it's a helluva can of worms.

I was fingerprinted on Saturday (2 days before US-VISIT went live, maybe they were testing the system?). As Feather says, the fingerprinting and photos takes seconds; no trouble at all.

Certain sections of the European media are having a field day, implying delays of hours and full on pad-and-ink 'printing, and neglecting the bit about VWP exeption. IMHO, it's another excuse for US-bashing - and I'm a cynical Brit.

Final point: If the biometric rule goes ahead from Oct 2004, I'll be amazed. The US tried to ban VWP for non machine-readable passports from Oct 2003, then realised they'd be turning back millions of tourist dollars. Result: Deadline extended.

[The Ticketor]

Another interesting thing regarding biometric passports, is that the US wants fingerprints stored, but the ICAO has selected facial recognition as standard for biometric passports.

But I guess they will simply have both.

This will be stored on a small IC-chip in the passport.

[eastern wiseguy]

Max he was quoting word for word the previous poster....guys stay with the subject which is fingerprinting and a general invasion of human rights.The US as they have said many times are at "war" and in wartime there is by definition a general decline in normal standards .I have nothing to fear...I don't like it but if that is the price I have to pay so be it. I am at a loss to understand the fingerprinting on exit :confused:

[604guy]

Missing from the "exempt" list in the initial post are Canada and Mexico.

[MasterBates]

I´m looking forward to giving them my fresh sperm sample.


MB
:8

[bealine]

My guess is that, when the dollar goes into free-fall as it is right now, maybe the US will have a rethink.

[SPIT]

Talk about OVER-REACTION. I did not see the yanks fingerprinting any Citzens when not ONE BUILDING (which was shocking) but 20 Years of terrorism and a few Hundred Buildings were being blown up in N Ireland. Or am I being to sarcastic when I mention that the funding for a lot of this came via NORAID in the good old USA.:mad: :mad: :mad:

Further to my previous post, I was in NY for Paddys Day Last Year and even though they are supposed to be banned there were still collections going on for them in a LOT of American/Irish Pub's.:mad: :mad: :mad:

[AtlPax]

But this is the wave of the future anyway, people - electronic finger/palmprints and digital iris scans. It's just another form of id - not much different than a photograph and description - but much more accurate and foolproof.

I see the day coming where people won't even have things like plastic credit cards/id/etc. You'll go to pay for your dinner and place your hand on the pad, get positive id, and the charge will show up on your account. Same thing with passports and visas - just a palm scan and in iris scan and the green light comes on and the door opens - Welcome to the United Kingdom, Mr. Bond. ;)

[The Ticketor]

Eastern wiseguy,

Fingerprinting on exit is to match the person exiting with the "travel record" of the person that entered.

[bealine]

SPIT is right - despite NORAID being a proscribed organisation, the giant McDonalds organisation is believed to still yield 1% of its massive turnover to NORAID - hence why British members of the armed forces were forbidden to use McDonalds restaurants. If the Provos need to re-arm, I don't think it would have too much difficulty!

Mrs Bealine was publicly humiliated by the "Bank of America" by being fingerprinted in full view of the public just because she wanted to cash Travellers Cheques. Apparently, this is now "standard" procedure because Osama Bin Liner and his not-so-merry men used Travellers Cheques to transfer cash.

Poor old Thomas Cook and American Express have lost out - all our forex deals are done on plastic now! If we have to suffer the same humiliation at US airports, then I'm afraid we will go elsewhere for holidays. I suspect many other Brits and Europeans will feel the same way and the mighty dollar will only be fit for toilet paper!!! :O

Who needs that stupid Mouse anyway!!!:yuk:

[London Lass]

From 24th Oct the US has demanded that to stay eligable for the VWP all current VWP country must start issuing passports containing biometrics.
Currently, the UK and france have publically said they will not make this date. This has forced the US to set up a group in the Dept Homeland Security to address the problem. Should we be removed from the VWP, anyone who wishes to travel to the US will have to obtain a visa (containing biometrics?) from the US embassy. Belfast and London currently have the set up to issue Visas but would not be able to cope with the demand should all US bound travellers require one.
US law will not allow the 24th date to be changed, so now they hae to start thinhking about how to change the law or as previously pointed out kiss goodbye to millions of tourists $$$$!!!!

[Bealzebub]

bealine, you are brave making such accusations of the giant and notoriously litigious hamburger corporation ! Many years ago a popular myth was conceived that employees were made to donate a percentage of their salaries as an IRA deduction. Except of course in the USA an IRA is an individual retirement account, a pension fund, not a contribution to a terrorist organisation !

The British armed forces are "forbidden" to use this companies restaurants ? Do you honestly believe this rubbish ? :*

[bealine]

bealine, you are brave making such accusations of the giant and notoriously litigious hamburger corporation !

It was indeed true. Like many American multinationals, McDonalds paid into NORAID in the belief that they were helping Irish countrymen achieve a United Ireland. Unfortunately, NORAID forgot? to mention that its funds went directly to support the Provisional IRA. Unfortunately, after this was brought to the attention of the US authorities, McDonalds continued to fund NORAID and it is widely believed that they still do.

They also paid protection money at their branches in Northern Ireland to the IRA in return for "exemption from bombing.".......indeed, other well-known companies did too and they all appeared on a list of "forbidden" outlets published by the Ministry of Defence.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jainlist/message/541

http://www.mcspotlight.org/cgi-bin/zv/debate/mcds/messages/5244.html


The British armed forces are "forbidden" to use this companies restaurants ? Do you honestly believe this rubbish ?

Sorry, for "are" forbidden read "were" forbidden. The British Armed Forces certainly were forbidden in Standing Orders, along with other "household" company names listed by the MoD, when I served in the Royal Corps of transport between 1974 and 1980, purely because of their CEO's stmpathies with Noraid!!!

[OFBSLF]

Have you been fingerprinted ?Yes, in fact.

Every four years I have to go to the local police station to be finger printed and photographed for my concealed carry permit. The finger printing that I under go is all 10 fingers of each hand individually, then four fingers of the left hand together, then four fingers of the right hand together. The police officer controls your hand and slowly rolls each finger across the card.

The fingerprint card is then put through a machine that heats up and fixes the ink. That takes a few minutes. At that point, the police officer checks the fingerprint card to make sure they haven't been smudged -- if they have been, we start over again. This whole process takes a good 10-15 minutes.

In contrast, the US Visit system uses an inkless scanner and only the two index fingers are scanned -- it is complete in a few seconds.

[Crepello]

:mad: :mad: :mad:

I can't believe this one's still doing the rounds. The McDonalds - Noraid allegations originated in the tabloid press of the late 1980s, substantiated by a McDonalds US payslip with the line 'IRA contributions'. As Bealzebub said, this has a rather different meaning west of the Atlantic.

McDonalds hotly denied the connection, all the way to court IIRC, but the muckraking continued. There was never a proven link but it's a hardy hobbyhorse of the anti-globalisation lobby. No point in letting the facts obstruct a good story... :mad:

Edit: Bealine, I've just re-read your last posting. If you can substantiate your claims, I'll willingly back down. But activist sites and talking shops aren't exactly reliable sources.

Sorry for the tangent!

[maxman]

Bealine. I too have been fingerprinted while changing travellers cheques at a bank in Michigan. But was explained to me, that it was to stop people cashing stolen cheques (you put your thumb print on the back of each cheque).

This was two weeks before Sept 11th, so things may have changed somewhat, still thought it was a good idea though.

[bealine]

Crepello - I can't substantiate the McDonalds story beyond the fact that, as a serving soldier I was banned, by official MoD Standing Order, from using Mc Donalds, as well as a number of other companies, known to be bankrolling the Provisional IRA through NORAID. (this was well before the 80's - this was 1974) Perhaps any other Servicemen/women who served during this period would care to confirm this?

It may, or it may not, have been innocence on the part of McDonalds, as NORAID were at that time marketing themselves as a "charity" bringing "relief" to Irish people and appealing to Americans with "Irish roots"......there was no mention of their sinister links.

Don't forget, the military intelligence network gathers a lot of reliable information of financial networks which it may not be able to prove in court (indeed, bringing such knowledge before the courtsmay jeopardise other investigative work).