Teesside Expansion

[mmeteesside]

What do you think about Teesside's proposed expansion? and any rumours about new flights?

The runway is getting extended at the 23 end (they are moving the road and the rail line)
The terminal is getting extended (a lot)

mmeteesside

[10 DME ARC]

I think you'll find 'proposed' being the optimum word!

[mmeteesside]

Anyone heard anything about Germania Express or anyone else starting new flights?

Also, any ideas about the new bmibaby destinations?

mmeteesside

[10 DME ARC]

Nasty rumour going around that BMi are to drop the LHR and Baby replace them with a STN!

[mmeman]

I heard that it was in the local press that bmibaby are waiting to announce the new routes at the same time as the airport officially announces the 'rebranding' to Durham Tees Valley.

I also saw an advert for bmibaby on the side of a bus in Sunderland which said something like 'new year, new destinations' so hopefully that means something happening soon.

[mmeteesside]

I have seen an advert exactly the same as that, on a double-decker bus in Stockton! and a billboard in Stockton as well.

mmeteesside

[Silkman]

bmi baby routes to go on sale this week.

AGP,PMI,PRG,BFS,JER & ALC. One based aircraft with three rotations per day.

10DME - LHR is staying at three daily with A319 introduced this summer (MME based crews already doing their conversion courses).
'Proposed' extension and refurb starts on Monday with the construction of the new approach road and changes to the roadway outside the current terminal building. I think you'll find
'actual' being the optimum word ! :)

[LBAir]

Is the airport finally getting rid of those portacabins??????????

Like Doncaster Finningley vs Leeds or Manchester, Teesside will never, no matter what they do be able to compete with the likes of Newcastle International (a propper airport)

It does not matter how long the runway is or what they call it (Newcastle Durham International er or whatever). The airport needs to follow a different route to achieve anything. ie. forget the passengers, consentrate on a CARGO ONLY hub.

You may not agree, but BMI Baby have proved this by the number of flights they have (NOT) operated. Newcastle have had several based EASYJET aircraft, Leeds have six JET2 based this summer. This just shows BMI Baby don't have a lot of faith in Teesside and they're using it because it looks good on paper.:rolleyes:

[johnwalton]

This just shows BMI Baby don't have a lot of faith in Teesside and they're using it because it looks good on paper.

Which is arguably echoed in the fact that (unlike MAN, CWL, EMA) they haven't released any seats for Summer 04 out of MME yet?

[Andy_S]

Oh for gods sake LBAir, give it a break. The only thing more tiresome then your endless gushing tributes to Leeds Bradford Airport and it's home city is your mission to denigrate it's nearest competitors. You've had a go at Manchester, sneered almost non stop at Finningley, and now it seems that Teesside is the latest target for your nasty playground insults. I really wish that from time to time, when I look at this forum I could do so without having to read one of your daily pro LBA / anti everywhere else within 100 miles posts. Do you not have anything better to do?

For the record, I agree that Teesside will never rival Newcastle (or indeed LBA). These are airports that serve big cities, so perhaps it's no surprise that that they have more passengers and more flights to more destinations. Does that make Teesside a failure? Does that stop it being a valuable asset to the region it serves? I think not, but then again unlike yourself I don't regard comparison of regional airports as some sort of willy waving competition.

[HOODED]

AndyS I could'nt agree more, I am an LBA fan also, but wouldn't knock MME. Good luck to em I say. What I do find strange though is why all the investement going into MME if there isn't something big over the horizon. Maybe it's freight who knows, but why would you want a runway longer than 7500ft for a regional airport unless you have transatlantic aspirations? Runway extensions and even terminal extensions are expensive.The money won't be going in without some expected return, and I can't see that being just Baby having one based 737!

[Andy_S]

Hooded,

In all honesty, I don't think a runway extension is on the cards. I think the story arose because the recent government white paper on aviation noted there was space to extend the runway, but I can't realistically see this being needed. Peel Holdings are spot on IMO in identifying the road layout and terminal as the immediate priorities.

I think Peel are a pretty shrewd crowd who know what they're doing. As I said, Teesside will always be the junior airport of the region, but it's still the de-facto airport for several hundred thousand people in the immediate area plus large parts of County Durham and North Yorkshire. I think Peel recognise that MME has underperformed for a long time, and that with better marketing and some investment in the airport itself, there's scope to exploit this potential market more effectively.

[dwlpl]

why all the investement going into MME if there isn't something big over the horizon

You have something there. Peel Airports are not the kind of company to speculate large sums of money without 'promises' of a return sooner rather than later.

Peel Airports at Liverpool have been given permission to raise the planning restrictions on its passenger throughput ceiling from 3million to 4.5million. They are now in the planning stages to expand facilities to reach a throughput of 6million.

Liverpool Airport is due to open a new apron and associated passenger lounges big enough to accomodate 757/767 aircraft more easily than before. The reason behind the decision to build the apron etc has yet to be made known but there are a number of well founded rumours. :ok:

[symphonyangel]

Andy_S

Spot on with your posting. I think many of us see that behind LBAirs anti-Finningley postings must lie an insecurity that Finningley is what others say it is - an airport with a long runway, in a large catchment area the majority of who traverse the Pennines for their flights and very few of who trapes up to LBA for their flights. Live and let live does not seem to be LBAirs philosophy.

[10 DME ARC]

Silkman

I think you'll find Peel is investing £10 million over 5 years which is not a lot in the old airport business. For example the extension of Newcastle’s terminal 2 years ago cost £27million, the present further extension this winter is costing another £7 million. Yes I now about the extension of Teesside’s terminal this winter, but its not any thing massive! As for the runway extension and moving of both the road and railway line well this came out of the white paper and is very much on the wish list rather than happening!
Forget the runway extension lets have a taxiway to both ends which is usable for any aircraft!!!

[Andy_S]

10 DME ARC,

Peels investment is actually £20m over 5 years. Certainly enough to rebuild the terminal and more besides. I totally agree with your remarks about the runway; I think people have read more into the White Paper than was intended, and I don't believe for one moment that Peel are seriously considering this (especially since it's already a decent length). As you say, a taxiway to R23 would be a more appropriate investment.

[LBAir]

Andy..... Calm down!!!

Point taken, perhaps I was a little harsh on Teesside, but the point I was trying to make is not that Teesside is unsuccessful, quite the opposite.I am sure Teesside could develop a regional cargo hub covering Newcastle to the North and Leeds to the South. A runway extension would help them achieve this.

I do honestly believe though that Teesside is not in a possition to compete with its rival to the North when it comes to passengers.
This is basically down to market forces (where the punters want to fly from) and this is why Newcastle can attract so many extra services.

Not a mension of LBA!!! Its good to live in a democracy:ouch:

from YORKSHIRE:ok: the place to be is the City of Leeds.

[onion]

LBAir you are aware that Teesside is a far better airfield than Leeds aren't you? The fact is if it does anymore than rain at Leeds the airfield is closed! Secondly neither did easy or Jet2 start their operations with all the aircraft they have based at Newcastle and Leeds now. Everyone has to start somewhere.

Teesside don't need the extention to the runway for even transatlantic stuff. eg two 747 and a 767 went out as part of the Bush visit direct to the eastern seaboard. Plus C17s went direct with loads to Pheonix Arisona, a bloody long way.
Infact alot of the long range stuff the comes out of Newcastle goes via Teesside because they can't make it out of Newcastle. This probably means the Newcastle-South Africa and the Newcastle-Dubai will go out via Teesside.

Runway if they wanted could be extended at the road/rail end without moving either.

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

Hello Onion

I think you may find that the AV8 will go via Manchester as I believe they are supposed to be do Manchester Dubai as well

Golf India Bravo

[HOODED]

Onion, Teeside 7516 ft Newcastle 7614 ft so going via Teeside is not due runway length. As for Mr Bush and his 747/767s they're hardly full are they? maybe 20 pax plus bags on the 747s! Not exactly 400+ pax with bags or tons of freight when the 7500ft would not be enough! A C17 is a military ac that is designed for short feild ops and as such is overpowered and can go transatlantic from far less than 7500ft.
As for MME being a better Airfield than LBA thats a matter of opinion, yes LBA has local terain problems that MME does not. To say any more than a bit of rain and it's closed however is way off the mark! For your info LBA is 7382 ft so perhahps they'll send their long range stuff via MME too!:ok:

[BEST L/CONTROLLER]

ONION

Thats exactly what you are obviousley an ONION, you MME guys have the gaul to call LBAir using playground antics, thats just what your doing , so sit back and listen to the proffesionals!

HOODED!

I'm an LBA fan also, Ive worked there for many years now, why not MME get a longer rwy, they maybe 7500ft, but we at LBA are 7382ft and at times we can't get an A320/321 direct to the canaries let alone on a transatlantic route from rwy 32, if they use 14 they have no probs with either canaries or USA its when they use 32 the rwy length shortens due to the Otley Chevin terrain, I still think even with an extention it wouldn't make much differance at LBA, there is hardley anywhere to extend to there,

I think a taxiway linking both end of 32/14 at LBA would be a better option at the moment, but this is MME's thread so I'll stop going on about LBA.

I'd like to see it all when they have the plans,

Peace guys!!!!

CHEERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!;)

[10 DME ARC]

Onion

You will find the only Newcastle tech stops were for My Travel (nee Airtours) who had a strange ops manual with regard long distance departures off runway 25 with the A320. Other operators with same type/engine and same destinations having no problems!
As for other long distance routes well Newcastle has had no problem with direct Orlando with the A330 –200 OR 300 series. Even the 767’s make it mostly direct 90% of the time.
At least Newcastle can fill 2 or 3 Orlando’s a week, Teesside if I remember, when you had Orlando’s, always routed via another destination to pick up more pax’s!

[generallee]

A few points about Teesside folks (including information from the other thread):

1) Tees Valley population - 640,000. Tyneside - 790,000. Considering North Yorkshire, Sunderland and County Durham figures as well and the drivetime statistics (one hour from MME - 2.6m and NCL - 2.2m), one can see that there is great potential for the airport.

2) LBAir wrote: 'regional cargo hub covering Newcastle to the North and Leeds to the South' - do me a favour. No airport could sustain itself on the above market and nor will Teesside (I'm sure) follow your suggestion.

3) Teesside has a strong catchment area, a good product (dated but being updated and heavily invested in) and an operationally superior runway (lack of obstructions etc - hence NCL charters ocassionally having to stop at MME on the way).

4i) As others have pointed out, Easy did not start with 4/5 aircraft at NCL ('it' started with GO doing STN and then grew from there 2 based a/c?). bmibaby have more issues to contend with unlike FR and Easy. i.e. mainline, regional and ownership structure of the parent (lufthansa, SAS etc). I think the fact that baby have based an aircraft shows good sense. One aircraft, sell it hard and then grow from there. I can't think of any airline that would commence a new base because 'it looks good on paper'. How much do you think it costs an airline to open a base?

5) Teesside does compete with NCL. It will never be as big as Newcastle but it will see its fair share of growth I am sure. NCL has its obvious attractions (Airport and City) and will therefore always have a strong business.

The whole point seems to have been missed by some on this forum. The White Paper does not necessarily define what will happen, it suggests what might. What is clearly evident however, is that given the right opportunites and some solid investment from the private sector and development agencies, regional airports can not only survive, but grow and become sustainable business centres for the regions and catchment areas they serve and are served by.

Oh and by the way, regional airport growth (any regional) should be supported. The development of regional airports (NCL, LBA, MME, LPL, Finningley etc) is to the benefit of everyone. The success of a 'competing' airport will not herald the demise of another. IMO, Finningley will be a success and LBA etc will also continue to be a success as will NCL/MME, LPL/MAN even PIK/GLA.

PS - some sensible notable good points on this thread from (amongst others) Andy_S and Silkman.

[expedite_climb]

At the danger of being of topic, and hijacking this thread....

Of all my years at Teesside, the one thing I rememeber about the Terminal is turning up there with other instructors one day when it was too wet and windy to fly, to obtain an "all day breakfast".

We we turned away and told "Sorry, but the all day breakfast finishes at 11 am"........:confused: