Alternate Fuels for modern TDi

[Jinkster]

What does anyone recommend?

I have been told Vegetable oil, paraffin - any others?

Would anyone recommend running a modern TDi on just vegetable oil or a mixture with diesel?

Jinkster

[rotornut]

The short answer is no. I read an article in The Western Producer, an agricultural weekly, on this subject a while ago. I'll try and find it and post a copy. Can't remember all the details but there can be problems with veg oil in a diesel engine.

The Western Producer

Experts advise against heated veggie oil as fuel
this document web posted: Thursday April 10, 2003 20030410p10
By Sean Pratt
Saskatoon newsroom

Inventor Rudolph Diesel used peanut oil to run the diesel engine he unveiled to the public at the 1900 Paris Exposition.

More than a century later, vegetable oil should again be considered a viable fuel for diesels, said Edward Beggs, president of Neoteric Biofuels Inc.

His company, located in British Columbia's Okanagan Valley, makes kits that transform vegetable oil into a workable fuel for diesel-powered motors by heating the oil before pumping it through the engine.

Beggs said with a small-scale processing plant and one of these kits, farmers can use the canola they harvest each year to run their tractors and combines.

But two leading biofuels experts advise producers to steer clear of using vegetable oil in their vehicles.

"That's almost a guaranteed way to wreck an engine," said Agriculture Canada researcher Martin Reaney.

He said the engine that Diesel showcased in Paris was a simple machine compared to modern diesels, which have sophisticated pumps, injectors and pistons that can be damaged by vegetable oil.

"Even if their system works 99 times out of 100, it's the hundredth time that's going to cost you a $20,000 engine," said Reaney.

Barry Hertz, professor of mechanical engineering at the University of Saskatchewan, has examined engines that have used 100 percent canola oil as a fuel.

"The results have been disastrous. The pistons basically seize. And I don't think heating the oil would be of much benefit."

Beggs disagrees. He admits that using untreated oil off the grocery store shelf will eventually create numerous problems — coated fuel injector tips, sticky piston rings and glazed cylinder walls with goo left over from incomplete combustion.

But he and his colleagues say they have devised a way to overcome those problems. They sell a kit that includes a "pre-heater" that heats pure vegetable oil to 70 C before it is pumped through an engine. The heat decreases the viscosity of the biofuel, creating a lighter liquid that won't gum things up.

The Neoteric kit requires a two tank system that uses standard diesel during start-up and shut down.

"This is the key really to the whole thing, is starting and stopping on diesel fuel and running hot vegetable oil through the injectors the rest of the time while you're operating," said Beggs.

Reaney insists heating the oil is not enough to overcome the problems.

"The life of the engine would be significantly decreased if you put hot oil into it," said the scientist.

Direct inject engines are particularly vulnerable but he also cautions farmers not to use hot or cold vegetable oil to fire the more forgiving indirect engines.

Roy Button, executive director of the Saskatchewan Canola Development Commission, said it experimented with a system similar to what Beggs is selling.

He said the fuel burned fine, but over time it led to soot in the oil and increased engine wear.

Instead of promoting the use of pure canola as a diesel fuel, his group is backing the biodiesel industry, which uses a chemical process to convert canola into fuel, said Button.

Beggs said farmers who want to create their own diesel fuel can buy a small-scale cold press for $15,000 to $30,000.

The Neoteric kit that includes everything a producer would need to run a diesel on homegrown canola oil (except the extra fuel tank) costs $1,000.

Beggs said the process is still more expensive than buying regular diesel but as fuel prices rise the economics are getting closer.

http://www.producer.com/articles/20030410/news/20030410news08.html

[Jinkster]

living in the UK we pay 78.9p a liter for diesel - so the alternates are worth looking at - thanks for the post :ok:

[rotornut]

Wow, that's not cheap. Anyway, I'm always interested in any possibilities for cheaper fuel and if I come across any more articles I will post them.:8

[sevenforeseven]

Jet A1 works just fine

[TURIN]

As long as you mix it at about 5% with shock strut fluid or similar!:O

[rotornut]

VOLKSWAGEN AG AND ARCHER DANIELS MIDLAND ANNOUNCE BIODIESEL RESEARCH AGREEMENT

1/5/2004
DETROIT, Mich. — Volkswagen AG and Archer Daniels Midland Company today announced the creation of a joint research agreement aimed at further developing and utilizing biodiesel fuels for the automotive industry. This Agreement marks the first time that one of the world’s leading automakers has joined forces with a major global agricultural company to cooperate on the development of next-generation clean renewable fuels.

Biodiesel is a fuel mixture made by combining diesel petroleum with natural or renewable resources such as rapeseed oil (commonly known as “canola”) or soybean oil. The use of such cleaner burning biodiesel, which can power conventional diesel engines, is environmentally friendly and substantially reduces emissions of carbon monoxide and particulate matter. As an alternative and renewable fuel, biodiesel of a special quality level can also reduce overall global dependence on fossil fuels.

“Given the tremendous environmental, economic and quality-related benefits of increased biodiesel usage, we believe this Joint Research Agreement will go a long way toward advancing and furthering the development of this vital renewable fuel choice,” said Dr. Bernd Pischetsrieder, Chairman of the Board of Management of Volkswagen AG. He added that, “Volkswagen has been a leader in the development of advanced clean diesel engines and this Agreement represents Volkswagen’s commitment to introducing clean burning and renewable fuels into the automotive industry.”

Mr. G. Allen Andreas, Chairman and Chief Executive of Archer Daniels Midland Company, said, “Biodiesel is one of the most promising renewable fuels on the horizon. This Agreement clearly demonstrates the shared commitment of both our companies to developing environmentally friendly next-generation alternative fuels that address global energy needs. We are proud to enter into this agreement together with Volkswagen and believe that advances in biodiesel will benefit the automotive industry, the driving public, farmers and the environment as a whole.”

Headquartered in Wolfsburg, Germany, Volkswagen AG is one of the world’s largest producers of passenger cars and Europe’s largest automaker. Volkswagen AG employs over 300,000 people worldwide and had total sales in excess of €64 billion for the first three quarters of 2003. Founded in 1955, Volkswagen of America, Inc. is headquartered in Auburn Hills, Michigan and is a subsidiary of Volkswagen AG. Volkswagen of America and its affiliates employ approximately 3,000 people in the United States and are responsible for the sale and service of Audi, Bentley, Lamborghini and Volkswagen products.

[Compass Call]

Jinkster

Just remember, it doesn't matter wether you use veggie oil or Jet - A1 in your car you still have to pay our Illustrious Chancellor and his government the required duty! Ask our local chip shop owner as well as several farmers in deepest darkest Wales. They all got done last year by the revenue men. Apparently the exhaust fumes are a dead giveaway to the highly trained noses of the revenue men who then proceed to extract back duty and fines from their hapless victims. These guys make the Gestapo look like angels!!

Good luck and watch yer 6!

CC

[JetFixer]

I know some engineers in northern Europe who have run their cars on jet A1 for years without any ill effects.

Go to the forum at www.andyspares.co.uk for more info on running Peugeot/Citroen diesels on veggie oil.

[Jinkster]

Jet A1 - petrol or diesel engine?

[AUTOGLIDE]

FYI...Customs were dipping vehicle fuel tanks at Manchester Airport, entrance to Western maintenance Area last week...

[mono]

They can't be checking for Jet A1. This has no dye or identifying colourant.

More than likely they are checking for red diesel. Some vehicles which never go land side are allowed to use the airside pumps. These have a dye included in the fuel to prevent misuse. (they are tax exempt/reduced)
Allowed exceptions include baggage trucks, beltloaders, etc.

Interestingly during the fuel strike a few years back an exemption was introduced to allow essential workers (which included airport staff, engineers, flight crew, etc) to legally use the stuff.

[MikeGodsell]

There are one or two of us in darkest West Wales with experience of running a diesel car on veg oil.
Dan, the main culprit is promoting the idea at various exhibitions and shows during the summer holiday season. He did a Lands End / John o Groats run last year to prove the viability. His prefered fuel is 5 litre bottles of the stuff from Tescos, and although he is honest and pays the customs duty, it would appear to be cheaper than pump diesel. Don't know how the long term life of the engines will be affected, but no problems at the moment with cars being used every day.
See www.vegoilmotoring.com
Mike Godsell