Meat Bomber Antics

[Eurocap]

Witnessed yesterday, 2 Jan 04, at ROT at about 1.30pm, the most disgracful piece of aircraft handling while landing after a sortie.

EUD (turbine fletcher or cresco) joining base inside the airfield boundary to land on grass 36 (base turn aiming at the tarmac) and touching down just across the taxiway with the wingtip within 1 meter of the ground while turning onto final.

Passengers and crew disembarking from an ATR thought the aircraft was going to hit them.

What a disgraceful example for young inexperienced pilots to witness at a controlled airfield. Does it give them the right to do the same?

Its about time some-one pulled these pilots aside and told them what plonkers they are.

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[btr_nz]

surely its for the tower to decide what is appropiate at an aerodrome..maybe tower asked him to keep it short ?

....these pilots work very hard flying mulitple sorties ..as a ex jump pilot myself I often spent up to 12 hours a day in an aircraft..with no breaks and caa's approval..maybe your dissaproval would be better aimed at caa and the complete lack of regulations they provide.

Parachuting in New Zealand is private operations even though a jump pilot may have up to 100 paying passengers plus 200 staff
in his/her aircraft.

[nike]

I do not agree with your senitments btr_nz.

Basically you have come up with a multitude of reasons to try and blame everyone else.

Your comments do not do the jump pilot fraternity any justice at all, in fact they reinforce the perception of poor attitudes.

[Eurocap]

Keeping a landing approach short and what this idiot did are two different things.

Even if the towers instructions are for a short approach it is no excuse for blatant disregard of the rules.

No aircraft should be completing the roll out of his base turn as his wheels are about to touch down.

The example that this sort of manouvre gives to new pilots is that they can do it too. This guy may have the skill and experience to complete this manouvre successfully but the ab initio will not!

From the wording of your reply it sounds as if you may break a few rules as well?

How can a commercial operation be a private operation? The aircraft is being used for an operation which is receiving hire or reward.

You condone unsafe practices and then expect CAA to police them.

Surely it would be safer for you and the industry to operate safely in the first place. The cowboyish reputation parachuting is receiving should be a worry to all in the aviation sector. It is leaving many stable doors open and one day all your horses may bolt and boot hill may be your final resting place and unfortunately other people's as well.

[Mr Proachpoint]

There is the avenue of the ICARUS system within CAA or a plain old annoyed letter to the director. Chances are the skipper of the ATR has filed some sort of nastigram and the wheels may already be in motion. From what was written, it doesn't sound too clever...............

MAPt

[kiwipilot02]

Mr Proachpoint.. I think you'll find Eurocap was the skipper of the ATR.

[Jack Sprat]

Does the RO pilot mentioned above come from a Taupo company? I enjoy taking students into Taupo on X/C navex's. Everyone there sets an example, even if its a bad one. The radio calls from those pilots who do the same thing many times a day have become unintelligible. Circuit directions seem to be there for the jump pilots convenience. Taxiing in proximity to an aircraft back from a jump run makes visiting pilots feel like running some sort of juvenile gauntlet. I watched a piper cub I think it was doing low level circuits against the circuit pattern. Those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head. Even a seasoned operator from Taupo field shook his head when I mentioned some of the antics we had seen on one day alone. Time for a bit of CAA observation in my opinion.

[currawong]

Hmmmm....

Somewhere in the middle lies the truth.

Eurocap, check your regs, bombers are often private (or were)

Suggesting that newbies will try to emulate everything they see is a bit far fetched, methinks.

Have you caught any trying to emulate your last instrument approach?

Seen any doing barrell rolls at two hundred feet?

Water skiing?

It never ceases to amaze the howls of indignation heard (even from within the industry) when someone witnesses aerial work.

"the pilot was clearly drunk" (top - dressing)

"the pilot was attempting a jail break" (powerline inspection)

etc etc

All a bit sad, really.

[prospector]

A number of posts mention some sort of reaction from NZCAA.
It would appear that they now see their role as entirely reactive. Until such time as somebody catches a headline that demands some action from that quarter dont hold your breath waiting for any proactive action. After having some dealings lately with this organisation there are many reasons given for this policy. Lack of funds being the easiest to trot out regularly, hence lack of staff etc etc etc. Lack of motivation appeared to be the greatest lack.

Prospector

[Barbers Pole]

btr

I bet you never offered to share that 12 hr day with another young pilot who needed some hours in there log book??

Having done jump flying and supervised a multi a/c operation I'd have to drag the young guns out of the a/c to get them to take a break. "I'm Ok" being there fav line.

Cowboy antics have no place in jump flying which has a heighten risk level associated with it, scared first jumpers, dodgy AOD's,uncontained openings,etc

eurocap, ring CAA tomorrow and pot the git cos there will be some idiot out there who will try to copy it and come unstuck!!

currawong, I've seen rolls done at 200ft by a PPL (not alive anymore)

[cjam]

Hey Jack Sprat,
Thats not how I interpreted my visits to Taupo with students at all. I was quite impressed actually. Most of the time they were very busy with 3 or 4 a/c dropping and after one transmission that was difficult to hear I suggested my student ask them to say again and we are unfamiliar with the aerodrome. The jumppilots were more than helpful letting the student know that she was well clear of the chutes and if she continued her approach she would be number two to a cresco turning left base through 5000ft. That they had her visual and were well clear. I thought it was a good example to her to not be afraid to ask and make sure things are clear and that 99% of people are willing to make things easy if they can. There was also a cub doing non-standard circuits when I was there another time,this I thought to be very prudent as the chutes were opening on the circuit side due to a SW wind and it kept them well clear.
All in all I thought it was a great training exercise and quite an exciting airfield to be at, better than Ardmore where everyone just goes round and around trying to speak english.
My two cents worth there.
cjam

[currawong]

Good point Barbers Pole. Was your PPL emulating something they had seen? Or were they just plain stupid?

Were they copying something they saw in the circuit, or something they saw at an airshow?

We have all witnessed poor airmanship. Not all of us are inclined to copy it.

[btr_nz]

Me blame others..never

I was not trying to say that CAA are to blame or responsible for this pilots actions, however i do feel that CAA's lack of interest in an industry that generates alot of cashflow yet remains private operations is strange.

Me break the rules ..never

though if i hadn't on a few occasions i would'nt be here now. Not that i would want anyone to copy me

What has happened in the new zealand aviation where aerocap couldn't find the time to wander over ( telephone) and talk to the pilot involved but instead pasted it over the internet and people threaten to report this pilot..are they looking for his job?

I suggest that you only post a reply if you have never made a mistake..or a dumb decision while flying..

I know I have and one of the great things about aviation is that I continue to learn every day..

[max rate]

I'm surprised the ATR captain saw anything at all. Theyre all blind and deaf old bastards from what i've heard and if they craned their heads too far around they'd probably topple off their zimmer frames.:8

[Cypher]

There are grumblings within the NZPIA that parachuting might go Part 135...

Hard to say really.. wouldn't talking to the drop pilot involved be a good start?

"Hey mate, I was just wondering about that last circuit... it was a bit short don't you think? It caused a bit of alarm for my passengers and crew.."

If the said pilot then ignores you or plays it down.. yeah sure.. then they're a plonker.. at least give the bloke a chance..

And for operating near drop zones, if in doubt.. ASK..
Often the drop pilot would not have a problem explaining where they are dropping, or even offering suggestions as to how to join the circuit without doing an overhead rejoin. Even to as to how many canopies are in the air.

Most drop planes will give a 3 minute call and maybe a 1 min and 30 sec to drop call. Often though on the climbout they maybe on Control listening out, although 2 comm boxs are often the norm these days.

[Eurocap]

Read the original post and you will find no mention of the ATR captain. The post mentions ATR crew and passengers.

Secondly, if you condone the actions of the pilot concerned in the original post then you are no better than that person.

This forum is called the Professional Pilots Rumour Network.

Condoning these actions cannot be considered very professional.

That is only an opinion of course.

[Barbers Pole]

Hey Euro, did you ring the feds and have a quite word to them about it??
I'm sure the owner of the a/c would have kittens if they knew it was being operated in that manner.

[Cypher]

I dont' think you'll find anyone on the thread really condones the actions of the pilot mentioned..

What I don't consider professional is the fact that someone can't approach the pilot or operator in question and question him directly on his actions before running off to the feds. How do you know that there wasn't a (God forbid if there was) a good reason for his approach?

How do you know the pilot in question already regrets his actions?

You don't cause you haven't talked to him.

Sure if he doesn't change his ways and something will happen,
Why does it have to be the CAA that talks to the pilot first? Did you ever consider talking to the operator?

The term professional gets thrown around loosely these days I believe as a term to hide behind to justify some plain nasty behaviour...

[GW_04]

Eurocap

I happen to notice you said in your first post, "somebody should pull the plonker aside and give him a talking to!"

Did you think of doing this yourself? Or are you the type that likes to wait for every thing to happen for you?
The purpose of your post maybe.

I think trying to ruin someones career by calling in the feds is not necessary when something like this could be dealt with much more effectively by a bit of educational conversation with the person himself!

If you are an ATR cap (whether you are or not does not matter), would you crucify one of your co's for poor attitude or a mistake?
I hope not.

:confused: G

[Wheeler]

That's right guys - keep it under the table where it belongs.

Why do you think peer pressure is the answer? Or do you feel ' there but for the grace of god....'

CAIR report should be the minimum. Or do CASA read and act on this anyway?