Brazil Begins Fingerprinting U.S. Travelers

[Panama Jack]

Brazil Begins Fingerprinting U.S. Travelers


BRASILIA, Brazil (Reuters) - Brazil on Thursday began fingerprinting and photographing U.S. visitors on orders of a judge who compared planned U.S. security controls on travelers from Brazil and other nations to Nazi horrors.

Federal Judge Julier Sebastiao da Silva, furious at U.S. plans to fingerprint and photograph millions of visitors on entering the United States, ordered Brazil's authorities do the same to U.S. citizens starting on Thursday.

"We've begun doing this," said a Federal Police spokeswoman at Brazil's Guarulhos International Airport in Sao Paulo.

The judge's order came after a Brazilian government citizen rights agency filed a complaint in federal court over the U.S. measure.

The US-VISIT system is meant to identify people who have violated immigration controls, have a criminal record or belong to groups the U.S. government lists as terrorist organizations.

Starting on Monday, people who need visas to enter the United States will be fingerprinted and photographed when they pass through immigration at major U.S. airports and seaports.

The measure does not apply to citizens of 27, mainly European, nations who do not need a visa to enter the United States.

"I consider the act absolutely brutal, threatening human rights, violating human dignity, xenophobic and worthy of the worst horrors committed by the Nazis," said Sebastiao da Silva in the court order released on Tuesday.

Officials at the U.S. Embassy in Brazil were not immediately available to comment on Brazil's decision.

Brazil requires U.S. citizens to have a visa when entering the country.

[pzu]

As someone who actually supports our cousins in the US, but despairs over their 'parochial' attitude to the 'War on Terror', I can only applaud the Brazilian response;

A colleague who sailed under the 'Red Duster' years ago, comments on the cousins attitude to ' morals & public health' in that they used to allegedly line up ships crews on deck for 'short arm inspections' before allowing them ashore - he claims that this practice was finally stopped when our 'convict cousins' reciprocated down under;

Maybe's the Brazilians are getting it right!!!!

[Panama Jack]

PZU, I agree with you 100%. I am in admiration of the Brazilians.

I am a little offended about the "photo and fingerprint" thing-- when I go to Miami I look for the shopping, beach and possibly DisneyWorld experience-- not the jail warden-- mug shot and fingerprint one. For me, going to the US no longer is the enjoyable experience it used to be and our family's travel plans have changed accordingly.

It is also incredibly irritating since the US is a major transit point for international travel to and from Latin America. :* There just is no way around the humiliation! Even travel through Mexico City is not practical-- I wonder if Havana's status will ever change as a prospective international transit point that would provide an alternative to Miami and the increasingly paranoid US? It seems to me that the Miami had that status due to it's convenience and efficiency-- but all of that has changed.

So what's this . . . . US Congress proposing short-arm inspections next? :ugh:

[AeroBoero]

Travellers from South America have already changed their way to Asia. Before LAX was the way but now the flights to Europe are full of people that just want to avoid the humiliation that begins by asking a VISA in the US embassy and being treated as a criminal. :mad:

As for the fingerprinting, that’s a good start. I have seen on TV some US tourists complaining about it. Imagine if all countries that are affected by this measure do the same… :E

[Panama Jack]

"Y'all Brazilans can't do this to me . . . . I'm an American!" :D

[GlueBall]

Heretofore Brasil (and Chile) had also required U.S. citizens to get an expensive visitors Visa, for the sole reason because the USA had required visiting Brasilians (and Chileans) to get one.

More countries like Brasil and Chile should have the courage to stand up to the USA and reciprocate this xenophobia.

If enough travelling U.S. citizens are confronted with such extreme immigration indignities, then they will be sure to send Bush and his neoconservative toadies out of the White House in the November elections.

[Squawk7777]

GlueBall

most US citizens have no idea how xenophobic immigration can be to non US citizens. Every time I walk through as a pax, I have to prove that I am not a menance to society. I have reached the point where I am not letting myself intimidate by some bored bureaucrat. I wonder how much writing a complaint to the sup helps.

7 7 7 7

[crack up]

Right, wrong, fair or unfair, I'm sure the Brazilean tour industry is going to love seeing U.S. tourists being turned away.

[Bubbette]

I consider the act absolutely brutal, threatening human rights, violating human dignity, xenophobic and worthy of the worst horrors committed by the Nazis," said Sebastiao da Silva in the court order released on Tuesday.

Wow, fingerprinting comprares to mass gassing/torture/medical experimetation on prisoners? Who knew? With leaders like this, no wonder Brazil has a long way to go to prosperity. That being said, I would have no problem being fingerprinted by Brazil or any country. It does seem like a waste of their resources if it's done just to spite the US.

And since when does being asked for a visa equal being treated as a criminal? I guess your country's penal rules are a little different than ours. .

[Panama Jack]

I am sure, crack up, that the Florida tourist industry would identify with that sentiment also. In any case, nobody is getting turned away-- they are just walking out of Brazilian Immigration with stained fingertips.

Squak 7777, I read an article some years ago that some US businessman observed and was annoyed by the rude treatment US citizens received by their own Immigrations and Customs Officials upon re-entry to the United States. He promised himself that if he ever got into a position to do something about it, he would. A few years later he got into public office (Congress maybe???) and memo after memo sent out was received with staunch resistance. Well, not much has changed, has it?

I tend to treat US officials with extreme courtesy despite their occasional rudeness or crankiness-- they have complete authority to deny anyone entry to the United States and having been denied entry to the US is grounds for automatically being denied entry in the future. This is hardly appealable.

Having said that, having been widely travelled I have found US officials to be some of the rudest and discourteous anywhere. Even the most corrupt latin american officials tend to be more polite.

Bubbette, a few years ago, in the America that was, people would have been up in arms in "Big Brother" theory had such a plan been mentioned. I get the feeling, whenever I go through the US, that the government asks different questions about me to further build a database about me, my actual life and past. If that does not bother an American anymore, then the country certainly has changed from how I knew it when I lived there a few years ago. In that case, would it not be a good idea if the US did the same fingerprinting on it's own citizens also leaving and entering-- after all, it is a good way to catch "most wanted?" :hmm: Remember, Timothy McVey was the US's worst terrorist and the John Walker Lindt and Padilla were US citizen Al Qaeda members.


Prepare to be scanned-- The Economist (http://www.economist.com/science/tq/displayStory.cfm?story_id=2246191)


US Fingerprinting Foreign Air Travelers (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=1&u=/ap/20040105/ap_on_re_us/airport_security_14)

U.S. Fingerprinting Foreign Air Travelers

By MARK NIESSE, Associated Press Writer

ATLANTA - Authorities began scanning fingerprints and taking photographs of arriving foreigners Monday as part of a new program that Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge said will make borders "open to travelers but closed to terrorists."

The program, aimed at letting Customs officials instantly check an immigrant or visitor's criminal background, targets foreigners entering the 115 U.S. airports that handle international flights, as well as 14 major seaports. The only exceptions will be visitors from 27 countries — mostly European nations — whose citizens are allowed to come to the United States for up to 90 days without visas.

Ridge was at Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport to meet with some of the first foreign passengers to go through the new system.

He described the move as "part of a comprehensive program to make sure our borders remain open to travelers but closed to terrorists."

"It's easy for travelers to use but hard for terrorists to avoid," Ridge said Monday.

In a pilot program at Hartsfield-Jackson that preceded Monday's nationwide implementation, authorities turned up 21 people on the FBI (news - web sites)'s criminal watch list for such crimes as drug offenses, rape and visa fraud, Ridge said.

Foreigners also will be checked as they leave the country as an extra security measure and to ensure they complied with visa limitations.

Most passengers breezed through the fingerprinting and picture-taking Monday, spending only a few seconds more than they normally would at the Customs station where they're asked about their visits.

But one traveler doubted the program would deter terrorists because they could come from the 27 countries that are exempt from visa checking.

"It's easy, but I don't think it's going to be effective," said Carlos Thome, who flew in Monday from Sao Paulo, Brazil. "You can also have terrorists in Europe."

Some passengers said they supported the extra scrutiny.

"I don't have any real ethical problems with it, just the inconvenience of having to wait a little bit longer. But it's not a big deal," said Bradley Oakley-Brown, who was changing planes at Atlanta en route from South Africa to Wisconsin.

Called US-VISIT, or U.S. Visitor and Immigrant Status Indicator Technology, the program will check up to estimated 24 million foreigners each year, though some will be repeat visitors.

Inkless fingerprints will be taken and checked instantly against the national digital database for criminal backgrounds and any terrorist lists.

Homeland Security spokesman Bill Strassberger said that once screeners become proficient, the extra security will take only 10 to 15 seconds per person. Foreign travelers also will continue to pass through regular Customs points and answer questions.

Photographs will be used to help create a database for law enforcement. The travel data is supposed to be securely stored and made available only to authorized officials on a need-to-know basis.

A similar program is to be installed at 50 land border crossings by the end of next year, Strassberger said.


Brazil's Foreign Ministry has requested that Brazilians be removed from the U.S. list, and police started fingerprinting and photographing Americans arriving at Sao Paulo's airport last week in response to the new U.S. regulations.

"At first, most of the Americans were angered at having to go through all this, but they were usually more understanding once they learned that Brazilians are subjected to the same treatment in the U.S.," Brazilian (news - web sites) police spokesman Wagner Castilho said last week.

The U.S. system consists of a small box that digitally scans fingerprints and a spherical computer camera. It will gradually replace a paper-based system that Congress ordered to be modernized following the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

A person whose fingerprints or photos raise questions would not be turned away automatically. The visa holder would be sent to secondary inspection for further questions and checks. Officials have said false hits on the system have been less than 0.1 percent in trial runs.

The system was scheduled to begin operation New Year's Day but was delayed to avoid the busy holiday travel period.

[neil armstrong]

I travel a lot to the States and these days i only travel through DFW , even if this means a longer trip.
Its the only place where the Imigration people are friendly.
MIA ,worked there for a while and i hope never to fly there again

[Panama Jack]

I've found Atlanta to be OK, but it isn't normally a point of entry into the US for me. I've like Miami better-- at least faster and more efficient than Houston "George Bush International"-- (something they like to emphasize proudly [ :yuk: IMHO]) which is slow, inefficent, and rude. :ouch: Going through US Immigration and Customs is hands down the worst part of a 32 hour trip overseas.

[Captain Stable]

I've entered the USA via New York, New Jersey, Miami and San Juan, PR. In none of those places did I feel as if I was a valued visitor, coming to spend money in their country.

[crack up]

Brazil is targeting U.S. citizens only. That's what the kids do on the playground.

The U.S. gov is trying to protect law abiding citizens. Sometimes the right way, sometimes wrong. They try something new every day. If it upsets you or hurts your feelings, so what.

Alot of things changed after Sepember 11, 2001. Particularly in the U.S. If you haven't learned to deal with it by now, to bad.

[flufdriver]

good on you Brazil!

What's good for the Goose is good for the Gander!

As a Visitor to the USA I am required to pay Tax on everything that I purchase, rent or use otherwise, yet I have absolutely no voice.

There is however a silver lining to the kneejerk reactions of the Dept. of Homeland security.

MoBay and Havana may well benefit from additional Europe or Canada bound traffic! as do perhaps BA and other carriers that make it possible to avoid the USA.

Do not congregate around the Lavatory indeed!

[Squawk7777]

Bubbette,

the torturing of Jews did not start with atrocities such as gas chambers, medical experiements etc. I personally find your remark a bit off. Psychological torture can be worse at times. How do you think the Jews felt in the mid 30s when they read everywhere "Jews not premitted", their basic living rights disappeared day-by-day or they had to clean the streets in Berlin with toothbrushes? And mind you I was exposed to xenophobia in Germany as a young kid and I don't ever wish anyone to experience this cr@p that I had to!

I don't want to appear @n@l here, but US immigration is NOT a pleasure to deal with. Every time I have to literally prove that I am not a menance to society. Some officers are less worse than others. And I do call this xenophobic and violating my dignity in this "modern" ago we live in...

7 7 7 7

[Bubbette]

Squawk, I'm not really sure what your point is--no one is out to torture, murder, etc all foreigners in the US.

As a Visitor to the USA I am required to pay Tax on everything that I purchase, rent or use otherwise, yet I have absolutely no voice.

No, but you surely enjoy the benefits of what the US state and local governments (those are the ones that impose the majority of sales taxes, not the federal govt).

[Panama Jack]

Bubette, now I am not certain what you are driving at???

It appears that fundamental attitudes have really changed in the United States-- now that folks are coming out and voicing their support of taxation, photographing and fingerprinting and overall data-collection-- with no accountability to where this information will go. Next thing I am expecting to hear is "Big Government is our friend :) " or "Random stops and searches by the police is a great solution to catching subversives."

Is a tourist (a guest) supposed to pay directly for the plethora of wonderful services the State and local governments dispense? :ooh: I thought US citizens and businesses WANT tourism from abroad-- that provides income and jobs (and consequently, revenue procurement for your friendly government via income taxes). It is like you coming to visit your bank-- they want you to come-- they make money that way. You do all your banking there, but when you want to have a seat to talk to one of the bank's officers-- they say-- well, you're going to have to pay to use that chair-- because the chair cost us something to buy so that you have somewhere to sit. Huh????

Many other countries have come to recognize this and either do not tax foreign visitors or offer a tax rebate program. So I can appreciate flufdriver's sentiments. He is saying "No taxation without representation" . . . . I can't remember what country that saying comes from??? :confused:

[crack up]

What does this discussion have to do with local taxes? When I hear a Canadian complain about U.S. taxes, I laugh. I've taken many boxes of cigs and beer across the Montana, Alberta border because Canadian taxes forced Canadians to buy American.

All you experts sit back and criticize what the United States is trying to do to protect law abiding folks, since you must know a better way, why don't you tell someone of some importance.

Got interupted,

Most Americans have been photgraphed and finger printed by the time they're 25, it's nothing new.

Even with local taxes, things are still a better bargain in the United States.

Fluffy:
If it wasn't for the greed of alot of people, mostly Americans, the Caymans would be just another Carib place. Now, it's the home of the 1000 dollar cheeze burger. Only the very wealthy visit your little piece of earth.

[Squawk7777]

crack up,

I don't see that the new laws in the US are actually doing anything but create paranoia. There is mostly no sense in what is being done. Fingerprinting will not stop terrorism, it will only change their tactics. I dislike feeling like Mr. Smith in Orwell's 1984. I am a law abiding individual - why do I have to pay the consequences? Immigration makes me feel like a criminal...

The press has done an enormous job in misleading the public. I laughed when it was reported that Atta's visa got approved. I was under the same visa and all the flight school received was the copy of the I-20 that came back from the processing center after they had copied it on microfilm. Even USAToday and CNN/Fox got it wrong. How can I believe anything anymore? :uhoh:

I actually believe that the war on terrorism cannot be won. Look at Northern Ireland or Spain. Why are terrorists still active? Because they want to. They want to demonstrate their power. Their mission has mostly been forgotten or is completely unrealistic. The only terror group that gave up was the RAF (Rote Armee Fraktion) in Germany, I think.

About the US tax. You can get your VAT tax back on most items (clothes, eletronics etc.) in the US. You have to show that you are a non-resident.

Anyway, back to the topic. :uhoh:

[GlueBall]

Maybe the Brasilians won't upgrade anytime soon to high tech fingerprint scanners. Visiting U.S. citizens will not only be delayed at immigration, but will continue to get black ink on their fingers. Irritated citizens will be inclined to call their congressmen and senators to complain about the far reaching effects of this immigration reciprocity. The Bush administration's bullying immigration policy applied to selective countries is embarrassing.

[Bubbette]

No, they'll just stop visiting Brazil.

[crack up]

Sq7777:
If there is paranoia, it isn't appearent, U.S. flts are full. I have found the TSA, INS and others to be very courteous. I have seen the hassle the arrogant and "don't bother me" ones, that happens every were.

The U.S. media is well known for miss information, missleading and wrong information and sensationalizing, there are many spoofs on American TV on this. If you don't know this, you live under a rock.

If you think that it is funny that a killer of many innocent peoples name slipped through U.S. INS, you have a problem.

The war on terror may or may not be winnable, but we have to try.

No one goes to a country that has a VAT system looking for consumer goods, prices are already over inflated, especially the fun stuff.

Critics of the United States seem to forget that when in need, no matter who or were, the United States will be the first to offer and render assistance. Nothing is ever asked for in return.

Brazil can do what they want, I don't think to many Americans really give a s--t. They will need U.S. assistance and they will still get it.

[GlueBall]

crack up: The problem isn't in the States, as U.S. Immigration has high tech computerized finger printing scanners. The problem is for U.S. citizens arriving at GRU. Go there and stand in line an extra 2+ hours, waiting to get black ink on your fingers.

[Squawk7777]

...not so sure about the computerized system. When I arrived in SAT from MEX last week, it took 1:30 to clear immigration. The compurized system did not cooperate and then I had to wait to get a special stamp in my passport. :rolleyes:

It was actually a good Mexican friend who told me that the VAT is refundable. You should have seen this place before Christmas. Crazy!

crack up I don't think the whole issue is funny at all. The only fact is that future-criminals with no previous criminal history won't be detected by the system. Finally, I would think twice about "nothing is ever asked for in return". I have never seen this anywhere. Politics is not that simple...

7 7 7 7

[Doudou]

You're right, they won't detect people with no previous criminal history, but they will detect and fill up files with all "potential terrorists", read here any people from North Africa, Middle East, Pakistan, Malaysia.... I don't see why US citizens should get offended to be treated like everybody arriving in the US is treated.

OK US is trying to protect their people from terrorists threats... maybe not that much. Everybody knows that every airplanes are no-smoking airplane. So why matches and lighters are not on the list of the forbidden items in airplane, as the nail-cutter they took out from my pocket (very dangerous a nail-cutter!). What is the point to have matches, the last person who lighted fire in a airplane was Richard Reed... seems like the Tobacco lobbies wants you to be able to light your cigarets when you get out of your plane (cause you cannot wait more after 8-10h flights without cigaret)... security doesn't weight much in front of money-political interests.

By the way, I must have been lucky, but when I got in MIA with my visa to finish my flight training, I had a very nice person at the custom, and this was a little more than one year ago.

[B Sousa]

Well sometimes the U.S. asks for a little of their own Medicine. If they had their heads out of their collectives asses at Homeland Security they would profile the bad guys, stop this PC Bullsh1t and this would not happen...But the courts here have gone nuttso trying to appease everyone. They have Lawyers out to protect Lawyers who are protecting Lawyers..
Its no wonder the world is in a turmoil.
Yes the Brazilans have a bit of 'In your face" which is good for the media, but will cost them Tourist Dollars. Thats sad as I understand its very beautiful down there.

P.S. Do any of you really believe the bad guys have ever been fingerprinted?? If so who has the database for comparison...ha ha

[Time to Fly]

A friend I meet in America sent me this link:

http://members.cox.net/classicweb/email.htm

I think it covers the issue.

TTF

[B Sousa]

Pretty Heavy Stuff

[Squawk7777]

I have not forgotten 9/11 but I am not sure that it justifies all this massive fingerprinting paranoia. How do I know that my prints and data are not being misused?

I disagree with "The only way to be secure is never to be safe". That is a perfect excuse for a government to apply Orwell's 1984 methods.

[B Sousa]

Squawk writes: "I disagree with "The only way to be secure is never to be safe". That is a perfect excuse for a government to apply Orwell's 1984 methods."

Have to agree a bit with this and it can be said there is a lot of jumping through the hoop nowadays. Sort of the old saying "like a chicken running around with its head cut off." Nail clipper scare etc. New Rules, and the "Patriot Act" as if your not a Patriot if you disagree.
We have to watch the path we travel as we have asked for our problems here, by allowing them to get here in the first place.
Sort of a question as to how much to we want to give up to be secure. Me I dont want to give up anything, but I do want things secure. We wont get that by playing PC, only by playing hardball with the bad guys.