Low Plank in Lake District

[Vfrpilotpb]

Good frosty morning ,

As was yesterday, not exaclty gin clear but nearly, so combining business with pleasure I accompanied my pal in his Gazelle to view a site we are doing work on in the lake district, after a very cold on site meeting with the architect we ajourned to that well known hostlery of the Swan at Newby Bridge( which has a paddock able to support many helicopters plus windsock and fire equipment on standby, we had a nice snack and a couple of warming drinks of coffee, needing fuel it was decided to lift to EGNH to fuel up then back home.

All on board the heli, power on rotors running, nill wind conditions and a few degrees of frost indicated, seconds from lift to the hover, and whoosh! at a height of around 80/100ft we were supprised by a low winged single engine white aircraft, so low was this A/c we in the Gaz(three pilots) actually though the guy was in trouble for he decended even lower after clearing the trees, this jerk was on a beat up of the entrance to Lake windermere, but alarmingly I dont think he knew of the Heli park at the Swan or even saw the rotors running Gazelle, the P1 was going to implement a towering take of, but aborted that idea and used a conventional type so as to expose as much heli to others viz at the crital time, once airborne we were all on the lookout for this rogue A/c and finally picked him up in the Winster Valley still down at about 100/150 ft, despite the best attempts of three pilots on board looking out, because of the low height this A/c was flying at we had no chance to pick him up at the initial take off point,

Just imagine what you could all now be reading! :mad:

[md 600 driver]

why didnt you fly under him and attracted his attention lol steve

[Vfrpilotpb]

All I want to do is to have a little word in the Tw**s left or right ear, after that It would be back to peace and serenity in a happy world were nothing ever goes wrong!:E

[Thud_and_Blunder]

PB - Have you considered posting this in the "Private Flying" forum, perhaps with a change to the title so that the lesser mortals will be interested in reading it? You never know, someone there might know who your "ace" might be...

[BlenderPilot]

The other day a C172 was doing strange manuvers around the city problably doing an airshow for his girlfriend, which I really don't mind, except he had not let anyone his position on the CTAF, he was going up and down like crazy obviously not looking anywhere but below, buzzing a house and then climbing to do a chandelles, stuff like that,

I decided to chase him to give him a hard time, when he first saw me he did the straight and level thing for a minute, then tried to dive, turn tightly, slow down, run, etc. etc. for about 10 minutes to get rid of me, when he saw I was not going anywhere but right behind him, he finally decided to head straight an level, we pulled next to him and he wouldn't even turn around to see us.

It was the most fun I had in a long time.
(Bell 407)

[Steve76]

...fly above one and disapate a little bit of lift....gets attention every time :cool:

[Vfrpilotpb]

T&B,
Have posted also on Private flying, but seem to have ruffled feathers, or it could be my interpretation of their answers!

We could have chased after him/her/ but we needed to be elsewhere and also uplift fuel, so we just left the area pronto keeping a sharp lookout until we found him/her again fly amongst the pine needles in the Winster valley, by this time we were 2500ft and heading out to the Arndale point and on the EGNH, but it certainly impressed us as to the ability(or lack of) of F/w pilots!

We seem to have a pprune member who is admitting to being the one! but claims Qnh 700Ft, he may not realise this can alter, Nor possibly is he the one.
;)

[S-Works]

Or maybe it's the shocking arrogance we seem to display as helicopor pilots to the rest of the flying world that causes people to respond they way that they do?

I have a foot in both camps and does surprise me at how arrogant rotary wing pilots come over a lot of the time.

Blender, what did you achieve by chasing that guy, only made yourself feel better because YOU felt the need to punish someone else because you did not like what you saw. Who appointed you judge and jury?

Steve76, what would you have achieved by behaving like a hooligan?

Come on guys, or own houses are not in order so we have no right to criticise others. It is very regularily I sit in the crew room and listen to the stories of how a pair of wire cutters are more important than a map to our rotary collegues.

It is little wonder that the world at large sees us as spolit boys with expensive toys.

It's time we learnt to play together a little better we are all pilots and there is nothing special about flying either type.

[Vfrpilotpb]

Bose X,

Possibly I could be wrong in offering the physical assault on some soft fleshy bits, but I have never been one for putting up my hand and saying " Please Sir, Suchabody is a pratt"

In my world if you do something wrong, you answer the trouble it may cause, not hide behind all your braying mates, it is sadly obvious that the only way to achieve any result to this is to talk to more official people, sadly I find whilst not wanting too, I feel that will be the only way of getting any outcome, to what was a rank bad piece of airmanship!

[S-Works]

VFR

This was my point, there is a system there and people who are qualified to assess if anything wrong was done. File an Airprox and leave it to them. They are pretty handy at tracking down offenders!

By doing this you can walk away as being the professional aviator and not a back street bouncer.

[Bright-Ling]

As I said in the other forum, submit an airprox.

If you look at the summarys that are published you will see that most of the UK is covered by radar of some extent. OK - they may not have seen the offender, but he may be the only one that pops up from that area.

You owe it to yourself and others.

[BlenderPilot]

I didn't want to punish anybody, I just wanted to have fun, you ever chased a C172 in a 407? There is no way he's going anywhere no matter how hard he tries!

I just think he should have used a radio before beginning the aerial display.

[S-Works]

It's little wonder rotary pilots have developed such a bad reputation. Great show of airmanship chasing the 172, having fun at another pilots expense just because you did not like what he did......

[Say again s l o w l y]

Apart from bose and Bright-Ling I have never read such an enormous amount of drivel in my life.

Chase another a/c? Possibly the most idiotic suggestion possible.
As for you offering the other pilot out for a fight behind the bike sheds Vfrpilotpb, pathetic. If that's your mentality, then PM me next time you decide to go flying so I can make sure I'm at least 100 miles away.

Fill out an airprox/MRO but forget about the macho, egotistical bulls*it. It only make other decent Heli pilots seem like a bunch of prats and I resent being tarred by that brush.

[Crashondeck]

I agree, AIRPROX them and let the CAA decide on whether an arse kicking is needed.

As for everyone else, isn't there something more important to glean from this thread....?

The importance of checking above and behind prior to departure (10/10 vfrpilot - there are loads of pilots out there who wouldn't have been so diligent)

And keeping a sharp lookout and careful planning prior to and during low level flight.

We have all seen GA traffic blundering about oblivious to what is going on outside, SEE AND AVOID.

Personally I see the Lake District and avoid it - Too much of a fast jet play ground!

[Head Turner]

Vfrpilotpb ; So you got buzzed by a low flying fixed wing. That's dangerous but it happened and you saw it. But it annoyed you so you thought of chasing after it. That's a pretty stupid thing to think of. One, that's dangerous and two, you could infringe the rule on formation flying. So two wrong never make a right.
An Airprox is the correct procedure - use it.
Nobody should contemplate chasing after and formating alongside a wrongdoer. Just get the facts and submit to the appropriate authority. This is know as 'Captaincy'

vfrpilotpb - a short question. Do you have every helicopter landing site marked on your map?

[Vfrpilotpb]

HT,

You are slightly misled, I have not stated or written that I wanted to chase after the aircraft, others have said as much , but I havn't.

On my map nearly every Heli landing pad Iknow about in the North where I predominantly fly is marked in Permanant red, but then where ever I fly it is alway with sufficiant air beneath my backside to avoid causing any problems even if i do overfly any private sites that I don't know about.

However it seems that he airprox way is not really that easy, I am being asked to give positive ID to the A/c type and number if available, I can quiet easily ID any Heli or pre fifties A/c, but all the A/c that are flown by Fwingers are not in my learning curve, and look rather like all cars do: IE like Ford Mundanos.

[Flytest]

VFRPB

I have just taken the time and much streched patience to read through the drivel replies on the private flyers forum.

I'm not a pilot, but an R/W FTE. For my sins, and for my bar time I indulge in a bit of prop balancing for our F/W chums.

My point is that I am pretty disgusted with the "constructive replies" on the other thread, in particular the moderators condemnation of your approach, whilst failing to question the antics of the plank driver to any great degree.

Ok, so you maybe do sound a bit OTT by your threats, keep that kind of thing for face to face, but all the same I sympathise with you. I have flown with private flyers, who on occasion like to portray themselves as some kind of Top Gun star, instead of an office boy with too much money and too much imagination.

Not all f/w private boys are in this category, I have had the priviledge of accompanying a lot of very professional and competent pilots, and BNC's to boot (Bloody Nice Chaps). Sadly the "closing ranks" and "Innocent unless several dozen witnesses, or half decent wreckage" makes me puke. If you ever catch up with C-I-M then only you two know the truth, and I trust the two of you will settle your differences over it. As for all the rest of the people who rounded on you, whilst failing to focus on the real issue.. take a long hard look at your posts folks, glad I don't have to fly with you.

[S-Works]

Flytest,

You are full of crap to be frank. As has been stated by a number of the posters on this thread the behaviour demonstarted by wanting to "fight it out" is unaccaptable in aviation. The f/w pilots did not condemn the ALLEGED infringer as they did not have enough evidence. What next internment?

Get your self a licence and some experiance before you start commenting on how people should behave.

Encouraging people to violence is not a solution. The solution that was made in these posts was the correct one file a report not go around punching people out.

[Flytest]

Oh god here we go again, somebody else who just cannot bring himself to question the "alleged" antics of a fellow aviator.

Look pal, read my post again, sure VFRPB was a bit over agressive, my gripe is that all you perfect aviators seem to be skipping the original point, indeed you were as quick and confrontational with your responses as vfrpb, what makes you better? There weren't too many of you asking questions of the "alleged" offender Mr C-I-M?

And a licence doesn't make you bright or competent either, remember you can train a chimp to ride a bike, ever seen one trained to fix a puncture? Go figure.

My apologies to all the genuine aviators with a sense of perspective and ability to make/admit/learn from mistakes. This is not a swipe at pilots in general, just a couple who have their heads up each others a**es.

PS. With EXPERIENCE comes the ability to spell, didn't they teach that at flight school brainbox?

[Say again s l o w l y]

Flytest, sorry mate but what a load of old tosh.

All we have is the statement of an over excitable individual. There is no F/w Vs. Rotary problem but there is a laid down method for how to deal with incidences such as these. The guilt of any party is not for anyone on this forum to judge. We weren't there and have no evidence of any problem.

CIM has stated that he was NOT low flying. Who are we to doubt him, in the same vein we cannot discount VFRPilotPB's commments either.

There is no room in aviation for petty minded 'mavericks.' Procedures have been laid down and as "genuine aviators " we should know and follow these whan the time comes. Not resort to school yard idiocy.

[S-Works]

Actually I tried to calm things down, it is people like you that stirred it all up again.

As one of the "chimps" that has a foot in both of these camps I was shocked by the behaviour. The F/W guys did not close ranks they were rather more pragmatic on the grounds that they were not there and only knew one side of the story.

It is people like me who have the sense of perspective and realise that attempting a witch hunt on the word of one pilot is not appropriate. As we said to VFRPB, if he did not like it follow the process not kick the crap out of someone.

I am frequently shamed by the actions of both rotary and FW but I do not go out and condone violence.

And as for the reason that CIM was not "questioned" or better still interogated with thumbscrews, he was taking the piss because he realised how stupid the post was. Even a chimp could work that one out. Go figure........

My aplogies to the genuine aviators with a REAL sense of perspective.............

BX

[Flytest]

I'm not stirring anything, just pointing out that vfrpb's "crime" whilst a little draconian and a bit Charles Bronson, was a little irrelevant...

Didn't read one single post which said "calm down mate, and by the way chaps, unrestricted area or not, low flying can bring unforseen hazards.. take care".

That is not a condemnation of the alleged perp, merely a recognition that even if you do not consider yourself to be doing anything dangerous, others may still be affected (Flight safety.. everyones responsibility???).

None of you good old boys felt the need to point that out did you? More interested in the agressive tone of the poster.

As for C-I-M, whether it was him or not, who cares? the point was rather than run to teacher telling tales, in the form of an airprox, perhaps highlighting how certain circumstances can be interperated as dangerous on an annonymous forum is better.

Once more, I did not condone violence.

Glad to see you got the hang of the spelling thing, so you can learn from your mistakes.. I take back my previous comment

:E

As for say again s l o w l y

I think you missed my point mate, but then again it happens with the written word, I'm sure if VFRPB and "Maverick" have a chat face to face, they will SETTLE THEIR DIFFERENCES without actually knocking ten bells out of each other.. two sides to a story and all that eh?

[Heliport]

What a big fuss about very little.

A useful reminder of the importance of thoroughly checking above/behind prior to and during departure especially from private sites, careful pre flight planning prior and keeping a good lookout at all times especially at low level.

Mountains and molehills come to mind. ;)

[Hughesy]

Low Plank, How about a High Kite!

I was doing a scenic flight with two pax recently, and as we were flying along the coast, at 1100ft ASL, I pointed out to my passengers that someone was flying a kite at the beach, It didn't take long to notice this kite was quite high, say around 800 ft ASL, with the nylon glinting in the sun as we passed overhead. :ooh: