Converting UK JAA license to Australian

[PeteB]

Hi there,

In a few months I'm going to be moving to Oz to 'start a new life' as it were. I already hold a basic JAA multi engine CPL IR, and I've been trying to find out what I need to do to convert it to the Australian equivalent. I've looked at the CASA website and I've done some research here, but I still have a few unanswered questions which I'm hoping someone may be able to help me with. I have the general idea that all I need to do is a single exam and flight test for each qualification (ie one each for the CPL, the IR and the Multi), however:

1: Where can I do these exams/flight tests - can I do them at any flight school qualified to train for the CPL/IR/Multi or do I need to go to an official CASA approved school?

2: I understand these exams are multi choice, but how can I find out what I need to study for each exam? Does anybody have any good books, or possibly sample questions, or practise papers?

3: How much do these exams cost, and how long after taking them do I have to pass the flight test?

4: How much do the flight tests cost?

5: Could somebody run through what's required of each flight test, just in case they are hugely different from UK standards?

Sorry if I'm overcomplicating things, but I did all my training in the land of red tape and pointless regulations!

Also, I'm going to be in Oz on a 'Spouse' visa (assuming all goes well) - has anybody else done this? I'm slightly worried about the fact that I'll be on a 'temporary residents visa' for the first two years. Will this affect my employment prospects, bearing in mind that in no way do I expect to be applying for airlines in that time, just small operators.

Cheers,

Pete.

[Tinstaafl]

1. All flying schools are CASA approved. It's illegal to train someone unless under the auspices of an organisation that holds an Air Operator's Certificate that authorises flying school operations. The Flying School part of the AOC, in turn, specifies to what level the school can teach ie PPL, CPL, IR, multi, instructor, Night VFR et al

You'll find that just about ALL flying schools are at least CPL. Many of them are also IR &/or multi.

2. CASA publishes the syllabus for the CPL. It's available at most pilot shops. The same shops will have a range of texts for the various licences & ratings. There's usually at least one in each major city. Most flying schools will have something organised about their preferred theory source. The foreign licence conversion exams are principally Air Law items + a smattering of syllabus stuff for that particular licence. You will need to obtain the use of a - generally unmarked - copy of the Regulations, Orders & AIP.

3. Don't know the current price. Exams are valid indefinitely. Unless that's changed in the last few years?

4. The test can be with any approved testing officer (ATO) for that test. It will rarely be with a CASA person. Schools will have a list of local ATOs. Cost can vary a bit but ~A$100-A$250 or so? Plus aircraft hire. Some places with in-house ATOs can have an inclusive cost.

5. CPL can be in a single or a twin. S/e must have a flight planned crz TAS of at least 120 kts + CSU prop. Expect ~2.5 hr navex inc. circuits, stalls, steep turns, IF (hood. Screens are rare!). The navex often goes to an Authorised Landing Area (eqiv. of a farm strip, in UK language), a low level leg @ ~500' AGL (Flight below 500' is legal no-no), CTA and a diversion. You can use whatever navaids you have but expect them to 'fail' (examiner or just not in range), forcing you to navigate using VFR clock & compass techniques. You will be expected to do all flight prep/planning including arranging clearances, use of airstrips etc.

Command Instrument Rating: Broadly similar test items as the UK IR. You'll have to arrange clearances, plan the route etc. You will have to do at least an NDB approach. You can also do VOR, ILS, GPS & DME/GPS Arrival if you wish to be allowed to do use those navaids.

Multi: an endorsement with any multi-instructor: Circuits/upper air handling/asymmetrics. Each type of multi is a separate endorsement. CASA will normally recognise any foreign equivalents so you won't have to go for an endorsement flight for each & every type on which you're already qualified.


A note about all Oz flight tests: Similarly to the USA there is a ground questioning portion concerning the desired licence/rating privileges & limitations. If you don't pass this ground oral you won't pass the test.

[PeteB]

Wow! Thanks for such a quick and informed reply. I'm particularly pleased to read that the cost of flight tests is significantly lower than the £600 I had to pay for each flight test over here!

I think you've answered most of my questions, but could you clarify a couple of points for me:

1: You say that there are foreign license conversion exams. I assume that these are condensed versions of the full exams that a student would normally sit, so, rather than having to sit 14 separate exams such as you have to do in the UK, I can just sit three, one for each 'subject' CPL/IR/Multi?

2: Might have misread your reply, but you seem to imply that during the IR, you can choose which approach aids you would like to use, and if you aren't tested on them, then you cannot use them in flight. So if I wanted to have a completely unrestricted IR I would have to fly several different approaches, ie one each for ndb, vor, ils, gps, dme etc?

3: In the UK there are essentially two different IR's: a single engine IR and a multi engine IR. To gain a multi engine IR you have to sit the test in a Multi Engine aircraft. From your reply this doesn't seem to be the case in Australia - does this mean that I can sit both the CPL and the IR in a single engine aircraft (although at least with CSU etc as you stated) and use those qualifications on a multi engine aircraft as long as I have a separate Multi Engine Rating?

4: Possibly linked to #3 above, you state that each type of multi engine aircraft is a separate endorsement. In the UK, I flew my multi engine rating on a Seneca. This allows me to fly any unpressurised piston multi. From what you're saying, am I right in thinking that if I did the same in Australia, I would only be qualified to fly a Seneca, and if I wanted to fly say, a Beech Baron, I would have to do a separate endorsement for it?

Phew, seem to have asked more that time than the first time! Thanks so much for your help.

I'm already worrying about that oral test...

Thanks again,

Pete.

[Tinstaafl]

1. The licence conversion exams are just that: A licence conversion exam ie they're only available for licence conversions - PPL, CPL, ATPL. There's one for each licence. The content is principally Air Law appropriate to the licence.

For the IR you'd have to sit the IR exam.

There isn't (wasn't?) really a multi-exam, apart from a fairly detailed open book exam for the a/c type. The same open book exam gets used for each type. NB This for <5700 kg.

You must pass the theory before you can do the relevent flight test. Recommend that you pass the theory before getting stuck into any prep. training.

2. Correct. The bare minimum IR must include NDB. Anything after that is 'extra'. You will have to do an approach for each type of navaid that you want endorsed with your rating: NDB (required), VOR, ILS, LLZ (automatically covered by the ILS but still listed separately), GPS (not used in the UK) & DME/GPS Arrival (a simple type of step-down circling approach. Not used in the UK). You are authorised to plan to use only those aids on which you're endorsed for navigation. You're not allowed to do an approach using an aid on which you're not endorsed.

3. The CPL doesn't require or involve an IR, unlike the UK CPL system seemed to. You're choice to do the CPL test on s/e or m/e. S/e means PFLs, multi means asymmetrics during the test. All else is the same. The CPL test is VFR only. The licence is valid for ALL a/c on which you are, or subsequently become, endorsed.



3b. A multi IR covers you for single IR. A single IR doesn't cover multi IR except for the special case of non-asymmetric multis eg C337. As long as you have the C337 endorsement then your s/e only IR authorises IFR/IMC in the C337.

Note that in Oz you **MUST** have an IR in order to fly IFR. Makes no difference how good the Wx is. ONLY an IR will give you access to flight using the Instrument Flight Rules.

4. Correct. A Seneca endorsement will only cover Senecas, A Baron endorsement covers Barons & Travellairs, BN2 covers Islander etc. The range broadens with each design feature endorsement you add ie CSU (get that via the CPL test), retractable, tailwheel, floating hull, floats, pressurisation.Often similar models get grouped eg C401/402/404/411/414/421. If you got endorsed on a C402 but didn't hold Pressurisation then you wouldn't be authorised to fly the C414/421 until you subsequently gained the Pressurisation endorsement.


Those design features endorsements will cover variants on other types on which you get endorsed eg have Baron, get pressurisation = automically get Pressurised Baron

Most singles are covered by a general <5700 kg single engine group endorsement plus whatever design feature endorsement is appropriate for a variant.

[PeteB]

Thank you SO much!

Thats really cleared up the whole thing for me - I feel much better prepared to get into it now.

Hopefully we'll meet in Australia and I can buy you a beer or two to say thanks!

Pete.

[slice]

PeteB - Tinstaafl seems to have more current/detailed info than me, but

Q1. The conversion exam for the CPL (there is only one) for foreign licences focuses mainly on Australian Air Law and regulations (ie stuff unique to Aus). For the IR you will also have to sit the IREX exam. These are the only two exams you will have to sit.

2. You nominate which AIDS you want be endorsed on but in all practicality I have never known anyone not to do the lot except if they are being tested at a location that does not have an ILS nearby. You will have to demonstrate an approach for each Aid, but only one has to be demonstrated in the Aircraft - the rest can be perfomed in a Synthetic trainer (ATC810 etc.)

3. The same applies here - a multi-engine command instrument rating requires the test be conducted in a multi-engine aircraft. There will be an asymetric component in the IR test in a multi-engine aircraft. The commercial and instrument flight tests are separate. Most here do the commercial training/test in a single (Archer/Mooney/172RG) and then do instrument training/test in a light twin (with alot done in a synthetic trainer).

4. Yes you have to do separate endorsements for each type as it currently stands, but a raft of proposed new FAA style regulations is supposed to introduce a common sub 5700 kg multi-piston type rating. These are planned for introduction sometime in 2004 as far as I know.

Don't worry too much about the oral test. I have found it generally tests your ability to put theoretical rules into practical flying situations.


Good luck!:}

[Tinstaafl]

The flight test for the initial issue of an IR requires all items to be tested in the aircraft. The synthetic trainer test allowances only applies to renewals.

I could have said more about the oral section of flight tests: You will be questioned on any knowledge areas from the relevent theory exam that you got wrong in the exam. A 'Knowledge Deficiency Report' is sent to you as part of the exam result advice and you'll have to bring it to the flight test. You'll also be given scenarios pertaining to the level of licence/rating the flight test is for and asked to solve/apply the relevent rules to the situation. Knowledge about the test a/c limits etc can also be asked.

[PeteB]

Thanks guys, that's really given me everything I needed to know. Now I just need to work on the fastest way out of this cold, miserable country.....:ok:

Pete.

[Meeb]

Just a small correction to whats already been said. The "CPL conversion" exam is no more, you just have to sit the CPL Air Law exam to convert your UK or JAR CPL to a CASA CPL. (If you want to convert an ATPL you must sit both CPL & ATPL Air Law exams.)

Pete, good luck with the move, you will love Aussieland, but you have probably been before and know that already. :p

On the temp visa, shouldn't think that would be a problem, your biggest problem will be even finding a job! As soon as you get married I believe you will get permanent status anyway. Last but not least, you are a brave man marrying a shiela... ;)

[Tinstaafl]

Oh. That's news to me. Suppose it saves CASA the exorbitant cost of pressing 'select CPL conversion exam' on their computerised exam compiler...

[thegirth]

Sorry to hijack the thread, but does anyone know what the score is for transferring type ratings from a UK ATPL....? Would ATPL Air Law just be required, or a combination of tests and flight tests?

I'm current as an FO on the A320 and have 1500 hrs on B737 EFIS. Working for large UK airline but want to keep options open in case it implodes or I fancy a lifestyle change.

Getting married to a Sheila in Brisbane next month, so assume that residency would be OK after that.

Any chance of getting hired by Virgin Blue or the Qantas lo cost (is it Jet Star) with +4000 hours, 3000 on B737/A320?

Thanks in advance.

[AppleMacster]

As the CASA website continues to be down, can anyone confirm that it is *only* Licenses that are convertable from JAA?

I'm currently doing the JAA ATPL groundschool which I plan to finish by the time we move to Australia. I was hoping the ATPL theory passes would be transferable (and I'd do the CPL/ME/CIR in Oz), but it looks like they won't be, so I would have to retake them all again as the Australian ATPL. :uhoh:

PC

[Tinstaafl]

CASA will only transfer the ICAO licence you hold. Doesn't matter how many of what other exams you have. Hold a PPL, irrespective of any other exam passes for anything? Get a PPL (after passing the relevent conversion exam). Got a CPL? Get a CPL (ditto conversion exam). ATPL? Get an ATPL (after the conversion exam).

CASA will also transfer endorsements/type ratings IF the type is already on the Australian register ie you can't have a type endorsement added to your Oz licence if that type doesn't 'exist' in Oz rules & regs.

Still a damn sight better system than UK/JAR bullsh!t. :mad:

[AppleMacster]

Thanks Tinstaafl for confirming that.

Looks like the best thing is to get the exams and CPL done here (we won't be going until the end of the year), then do the conversion exams in Australia. It feels like overkill, but none of the ATPL groundschool will be wasted, I suppose, and I'm too far along to stop!:ugh:

[MAX]

Been searching for info and dragged this one up. Can someone help?

Can the flight test for the conversion be done on the sim for the a/c you are rated on? eg: 767. Or would it be easier/cheaper to hire an actual light twin with a school?

Also can any of these exams for conversion be done correspondence? If so can anyone recommend a school.

Thanks.

MAX:cool:

[redsnail]

thegirth,
What you may need to be aware of is Virgin Blue's requirement (in their ops manual apparently) to have 500 hours multi eninge in command time. They may waiver that one or they may not. With A320 time you'd be looking good for JetStar.

Max, I would say so. The sim is easier and cheaper to get hold of.
Again best talk to the CASA guys who may know. The UK accept it.

Oh and PeteB, you won't find Tinny in Australia, you'll have to look to the States. :D he likes Guinness too.

[Bird Strike]

CASA exam fees:
http://www.casa.gov.au/avreg/business/fees/sched.htm

Overseas License Conversion:
http://www.casa.gov.au/avreg/fcl_lic/overbr.htm

Overseas License Conversion - Exams
http://www.casa.gov.au/avreg/fcl_lic/fcl_exam/cyber/convexam.htm