Bmi And M.o.d. Flights On A330

[flymeagain]

BMI Have just been given an MOD contract to opperate flights from BZZ to ASI and MPN They are asking Cabin crew to temporary base in ASI. the contract starts on 20th jan to 2nd April, when BMI start a new route (MAN-YYZ) Can't see many crew wanting to base on a rock for 3months !!!!!!

[Electric Sky]

Air Canada already operate MAN-YYZ so as a Star Alliance partner, I can only see bmi getting the route if AC hand it over. Nothing about it on their website.

ES ;)

[Carlos20]

This is true about the MOD contract, however there is no official line on the toronto service as of yet, althought this would make sense as nobody operates it direct at the moment, AC only offer it via LHR or IAD

[bmiboyz]

All true about the Mod contract for successful LHR based cabin crew their conversion course will be on 5th JAN. Contract starts towards the end of JAN.

[Little Blue]

...Wonder if they want any Ops staff on the rock?
Off u go Bob !!! :)

[Caslance]

Air Canada already operate MAN-YYZ Actually, Electric Sky, the Air Canada MAN-YYZ flight is seasonal at present.

[rampman]

hmmmmmmm ...... don't TCX and MYT fly to YYZ from MAN ... i think so ....... I know they are only charter but they do fly to Toronto :ok:

[Electric Sky]

Caslance, I was basing my information on a booking enquiry on the bmi website for April which is when the stated bmi MAN-YYZ flights were due to be operating. The only direct service offered was an Air Canada 767 flight.

ES ;)

[Wycombe]

....suggest you all pop over to Mil Aircrew where the chaps who've flown and passengered on this route for years will be able to replete you with stories of mid- and south Atlantic derring-do.

ASI is at about 8 deg S, so at least the weather's nearly always nice....it's a blinkin' long way from anywhere else though (which can present a few operational challenges :D )

[Jordan D]

Probably a stupid Question, but which locations are ASI & MPN?

Jordan

[sharpshot]

Ascension and Mt. Pleasant.

[Wycombe]

One of the original sites assessed for the construction of what is now the Mount Pleasant Airfield (MPA) complex lies a few miles along the 30 mile road that now links it to Port Stanley.

The name of this location is Mt. Miserable!! - would have been very apt I can tell you.

[Electric Sky]

I guess this is to replace an RAF Tristar? Have commercial airlines operated this before and, if so, is the A330 likely to be reconfigured into all economy seating?

ES ;)

[BA777]

Hey Guys,

As a BZZ local man this is cool :). Just wondering if there was any info on times available? Hopefully they wont leave/depart in the dark!

Happy new year to all!

Henry

[Georgeablelovehowindia]

Electric Sky: My British Airways 747 (Classic) captain friend remembers landing at Mount Pleasant in a raging crosswind i.e. normal operation. As a souvenir he has framed in his study the landmine chart which was presented to him at the foot of the steps!

[scroggs]

BA, Virgin and, I believe, Britannia have all held contracts to operate BZN-ASI-MPN at various times over the last 20 years, usually when the Tristar fleet has been too busy with tasking elsewhere.

While ASI is a bit isolated, it's not a serious operational problem to hold Dakar, Banjul or Freetown as diversions in an aircraft such as the 747, A330 or Tristar. Smaller aircraft with more limited fuel capacity, such as the C130, would normally arrive with what's known as 'Island Holding Fuel' which gives a greater than normal holding capability in the event of temporary bad weather or runway unavailability.

[Electric Sky]

George .... great story, that should encourage some volunteers to fly the A330 :D

ES ;)

[Wycombe]

Hi Scroggs,

Yep, Britannia did operate the "South Atlantic Schedule" during Gulf War 1 (early 1991), with 767-200ER.

[MarkD]

I seem to remember BEagle saying A330 could make BZZ-MPA non-stop, maybe that was assuming tanker config. A stop in ASI might mean more frequent but longer trips as it would also supply ASI.

[Wycombe]

George (meant to respond to your comments aswell!),

AFAIK it's long been a subject of debate as to why the MPN main runway (there is a cross runway, but it's only about 5000') was built with E-W orientation.

The FI's are a windy place, but on my visits the worst gales I remember were from the S (an icy blast straight from Antartica).

When winds are from the North, rotors have been known to develop as the wind passes over the high ground to the N of the field (a met study was carried out at MPN into this by a UK University a couple of years ago)

Let's hope it doesn't blow so bad that they need to hangar the 330, as I think they'll find it doesn't fit in the "Tristar" hangar (it's not unknown for the L1011's to have been loaded/off-loaded inside when it's really rough out :D )

BTW, one more civilian operator to add to the list - during the most recent Iraq War, the schedule was operated for a while by Air Luxor - think this was with L1011-500 aswell though.

[scroggs]

The reason the runway was built east-west was mainly because the wind profile taken over an extended period (years) showed the prevailing winds to be mainly westerly. A secondary reason is that there is nowhere within reasonable distance of Stanley where a 2500m+ runway could have been built with any other orientation and still had decent obstacle clearance within the approach/departure lanes.

I'm sure an A330-200(K) could fly the 8000nm to the Falklands non-stop. I doubt it would carry much useful payload, however, and its diversion prospects once at MPN would be zero.

[BA777]

http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gcmap?PATH=BZZ-MPN&PATH-UNITS=nm&PATH-COLOR=red&ETOPS=138

As long as they have 138min ETOPS, they'll be fine. GC distance is 6823nm/7852miles.

Henry

[scroggs]

I don't think ETOPS is an issue; there are plenty of diversions on the way down, especially if the route is slightly adjusted to be closer to South America. My guess is, though, that they might be a tad pushed to hold a politically-acceptable mainland alternate having arrived at the MPN final approach fix. Bear in mind that alternates in Argentina may not be available!

I'm not familiar with the A330-200 figures (perhaps BEagle could enlighten us), but I'm doubtful that a particularly useful payload could be carried on a 16 hour flight with fuel for a Brazil or Chile diversion. I'd guess that the fuel required would be in the region of 115 tonnes, but I'll defer to anyone who is more familiar with the aircraft.

[Electric Sky]

For the record, bmi have had 180 min ETOPS with the A330 from day one.

The range of the A330-200 is approx 6500nm with a full payload of passengers and baggage, so I would imagine it may well be payload restricted on some days, if not most, to go direct. This will particularly be the case if diversion airfield distance is an issue.

A good guide can be found here:

http://www.airbus.com/product/a330_a200_performance.asp

ES ;)

[scroggs]

Another point worth bearing in mind is that military passengers travelling to or from a four or six-month detachment to the Falklands have somewhat more baggage than the average holidaymaker. I don't know what standard pax weight figure the RAF uses for this flight, but I bet it's more than your average bucket-and-spade trip.

Similarly, a great deal of freight is currently moved by the RAF's Tristars (about half of which are 'combi' configuration). The Airbus widebodies have good freight capability and it would be expected to be used. I can't see this route going non-stop!

[DOVER UG1]

I think you will find that this is a schedule service operation that always routes through Ascension Island as this was the original Airbridge. In the good old days a ship used to run from Ascension to Port Stanley......it also provides a joining point for passengers to/from St Helena (another GB outpost)

[Wycombe]

Indeed so Dover,

On the SA Scheds I took, there were on average a couple of dozen folks from St Helena - either travelling to/from ASI to connect with the ship (St Helena doesn't yet have an airport),
or travelling to the FI to work (many are employed in various
contractor roles at MPA).

There is no other scheduled service to ASI - another reason why this is an RAF Service for which you can buy a fare-paying ticket.

[fesc]

ASI is okay, but not much to do, as for MPA............... do not go tech!!! I would swim home.

I guess the brave RAF Tristar mates are going to be flying the Iraq trips now that the insurance has gone F430 and climbing after the DHL bad luck.