Sad News - Aviation can be Deadly

[AA SLF]

Another commercial aviator has lost their life performing their job. See this LINK HERE (http://kevxml2adsl.verizon.net/_1_3S4TO104RY3B7P_16770182_vzn.dsl/apnws/story.htm?kcfg=apart&sin=D7VMGFH80&qcat=usnews&ran=20982&passqi=&feed=ap&top=1) .........

May his Soul rest in Peace - - - - -

[GlueBall]

Running an airplane out of fuel 300 miles from shore is not commensurate with "performing their job," it's dumb and stupefying.

[FWA NATCA]

Harsh but true, running out of fuel is just plain STUPID.

Mike

[weasil]

This article from the NZ Herald says he might have been having fuel transfer problems,



Weasil
Moderator


NZ Herald

New Zealand pilot killed on delivery flight to California

27.12.2003
1.20pm - By MARTIN JOHNSTON
A New Zealand pilot died today when the plane he was delivering to the United States crashed into the sea, about 480km off the California coast.

Kelvin Stark, 58, of Tauranga, was ferrying one of the new Pacific Aviation Corporation 750XL planes, made in Hamilton, to the US.

His wife, April, said she was told of the tragedy at about 3am by a US radio operator who had been in contact with her husband and had telephoned her.

Mr Stark's brother-in-law, Mike Fletcher, said Mr Stark was alone in the plane, which had apparently ditched in the sea and flipped after a fuel problem.

He was to have left from Hamilton Airport on December 19, but was delayed until Tuesday and made several stops on the delivery flight, the last in Hawaii.

"The Coastguard have confirmed Kelvin is still inside the aircraft but the seas are very heavy."

Divers had jumped into the water from a helicopter, but had so far been unable to retrieve Mr Stark's body as the seas were too rough, Mr Fletcher said.

US reports said Air Force parajumpers found the lifeless man strapped in the cockpit of the plane.

Mr Fletcher understood that Mr Stark's plane was either low on fuel or developed a fuel-transfer problem involving one of the fuel tanks inside the plane.

Mrs Stark said she hoped the plane would remain floating until the seas calmed enough for her husband's body to be removed.

"It's pretty tough. I've already been down this track before." Her first husband, who was also a pilot, died in a plane crash more than a decade ago.

She said Mr Stark specialised in ferry flying. "Ferry flying is a risky job. We always knew that. I'm a pilot as well so I know what's involved in it, but when it's in your blood that's what you do."

Pacific Aviation has sold 18 of its PAC 750XL planes, a short take-off and landing aircraft originally based on a topdresser.

[topman999]

Really, the utter stupidity of running out of fuel :rolleyes: Makes one think of the nature of people running the skys these days to be perfectly honest

[the wizard of auz]

And if it was a transfer problem it makes your statement look pretty friggen stupid.......... Idiot!!!!!:mad:

[flyingkiwi]

You Pricks!!!##$@#s

I have flow with this person on a ferry flight in the past and found him to be very safety conscious. From memory he had near 10K hours on fixed wing and something close in helicopters too.

He also went out of his way to help young people get ahead in aviation. Which is more than you vultures probably ever did

If you think about it for more than 1 second, do you really think a highly experienced ferry pilot would run out of fuel over 4 hours out from his destination, sounds pretty much like a transfer problem to me.

May K.S. RIP

[tinpis]

RIP Kelvin.

Had a lot of fun with Kelvin around the old Ardmore "Skyroamers"many years ago.
He was a wag , his flying school motto was"Fly Stark naked"

http://www.utilityaircraft.com/images/750xl703sm.jpg

[Jim Morehead]

That was my feeling too. To condemn somebody when there is no report in....is sad.....There could be plenty of reasons why the fuel he had or planned for was not available......

I am sad to hear how this situation turned out.

[cribble]

Given that the guy had adequate reserves for the leg then some of the previous posts leave me cold. I hesitate to tell some of those previous posters to "get some time in, son..." for, perhaps, they know not what they say.

Suffice for me to recall that
a. sometimes the weatherguessers on the Hawaii/CONUS routes couldn't find their arses with both hands;

b. sometimes a duely certified (but new) aeroplane does not perform to spec and ;

c. sometimes ****e happens in our industry, even to people that do an awful lot of single-engine ferry flights.

A lead to some more info is at http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydisplay.cfm?thesection=news&thesubsection=&storyID=3541428

which includes

"Kelvin had more than sufficient fuel on board - 20 hours for a 15 1/2- hour flight - so they are not sure what happened. It might have been a leak ... "


**edit for sp**

[FWA NATCA]

Though the running out of fuel comments may have been premature, harsh, and/or wrong, it is always tragic whenever someone like this crashes. A friend of mine (also a very experienced pilot) crashed in an L-39 several years ago over Lake Michigan, the difference is they never found the wreckage, or the pilots, and yes they had plenty of fuel.

Having worked as a controller for over 18 years I have seen more than my share of accidents due to fuel starvation, pilot experience usually didn't make a difference.

Hopefully they will be able to recover the wreckage so that they have a chance to discover the cause.

Mike

[weasil]

Was that L39 out of North American Aviation in Rockford? They do L39 refits and training there.

As for the earlier posts, it always saddens me to hear about a pilot dying for any reason. I can understand pilots getting angry to hear about other pilots being stupid but come on guys, wait til the facts are in! Otherwise you are no worse then the mainstream media.

flying kiwi we are all sorry to hear about your friend.



Weasil

[jib]

GlueBall,
As someone who ferries aircraft for a living I find your comment both extraordinary and insulting, Two minutes of research would have led you to the information that Mr Stark may have had a transfer problem, and prevented you from making comments that can seriously effect the family and friends of those concerned. Did you consider for one minute the number of people who read these forums and the effect your comments could make? To make a blanket statement that the aircraft ran out of fuel simply proves how narrow your own little corner of aviation must be. When was the last time you crossed the Pacific Ocean in a light aircraft?
The aircraft had already done longer sectors than the one where the ditching occurred and still had roughly eleven hours of fuel on board. However with no autopilot you can’t get to the back to try to fix a transfer problem and are limited to the wing endurance of the aircraft with nowhere to go and a heavy weight ditching.
It’s not pretty, in fact it’s bloody frightening.
My condolences to those concerned.
jib

[brockenspectre]

RIP Kelvin Stark - I hope that wherever your spirit roams in the skies above your demise will permit others not to encounter a similar situation.. :ok:

[NoseGear]

Topman, leave this discussion to the pilots! Your comment "running the skies"and "utter stupidity"make you look like a sorry Walter Mitty wannabe!!!

To the others, I hardly think Kelvin, a very nice bloke and very experienced pilot, would have taken off with less than the required fuel. The Mayday call came in when he realised his predicament. It sounds very much like a transfer problem to me. These comments, condeming a man and leaping to such conclusions is hurtful to his family and those who knew and respected him. :(

Nosegear

[Jim Morehead]

FWA Mike
I wanted to comment on your message. I used to enjoy layovers in FWA before UAL retirement. Of course FWA would get the 737/727s way back in the 1970s/1980s. I ahve flown other airplanes into there as FWA was a good stop from a place where I would pick up or take airplanes from the GRB area to Florida.

You comment about pilot hours/experience and you are right on this one. Probably there are a few reasons. As one gets more ratings and hours,people often take more risks or should I say more challenging assignments. (I am not suggesting that the guy from NZ was,so don't misread me). But as one gains hours, people tend to be more comfortable in themselves and their equipment.

In older years, when the weather got bad, those with lower time would park the airplanes and wait for better improvement even if it meant days. More often today, people have GPSs and advanced equipment and can navigate and communicate easier. As pilots skills go up, people are less reluctant to file IFR and encounter worse weather.

While I certainly don't consider myself a daredevil at all, I was flying a single engine airplane last month through the Florida panhandle headed to my destination in South Florida. I was 90% sure I needed to make one fuel stop. I had one line of TRW to go above, around, or through and it was twilight. I had flown in FLroida for the last 35+ years and knew most of the airports and knew Florida had low terrain. That was a factor to continue.

There were some bumps and some light rain in above freezing weather even though in clouds for about an hour. WHen I got to MCO APP, the guy asked what my destination was and I told him Boca Raton. I told him I wasn't sure whether I needed to make a fuel stop or not at MLB or VRB,but would consider it. I could tell he was uncomfortable with my answer. He asked the remaining flight time and the remaining fuel. I told him. Just a few minutes later, he said, Now don't you go running out of fuel on me!" I promised him I wouldn't.

I did land at MLB because it was too tight for me to stretch it. It would have worked out o.k,,but at night even in VFR conditions anything can happen.

Also when landing at MLB, the landing light went out and I landed on the big runway. We refueld and the controller was nice enough to let me backtaxi down the smaller one (5000 , I believe) because I had no landing light. Nice guy. He had little traffic.

But I just wanted to pass that one story on about the controller worried about me. He had no idea about my background nor the airplane other than it is was a single engine and he had no idea of my ratings and hours. They are ATP and almost 22,000 hours. He didn't know if I was a private and a few hundred.

Anyway,thanks to you and the many controllers around the world that care. I have many controlelr friends,but they won't admit it!

[aviator]

http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/169-full.html#186394

Fellow Pilots Tried To Help Doomed Aviator
When New Zealand pilot Kelvin Stark, 58, found himself alone above the Pacific Ocean last week, with fuel-flow problems in the new PAC 750XL single-engine skydiving plane he was ferrying to California, other pilots tried to help, the New Zealand Herald reported Monday. In the dark, overcast night, Stark reached out on 121.5 and found Capt. Steve Jacques, flying a United 767 from Honolulu to Denver, who talked with him for about three hours as Stark tried to troubleshoot the problem. "He had no co-pilot, but at a push of his microphone switch he was getting the support of many others," Jacques told the Herald.

Stark also heard from other cockpit crews who offered advice, and the Coast Guard responded with plans for a rescue operation, and coached him through the ditching procedures early in the morning. "He never seemed worried. There was no distress, he was upbeat and accepting the information," said Jacques. "He was not alone out there. A lot of people were trying to help." USCG Lt. Brust Roethler told the Herald that Stark faltered only once -- when an airline pilot asked if he had a message for his wife. "We then all realized this would not necessarily come off ... Mr. Stark choked up a little bit ... We all did," said Roethler. Stark made what appeared to be a gentle water landing about 310 miles southwest of Monterey, as the USCG C-130 flew nearby, but the fixed-gear airplane flipped over on its back. The Coast Guard crew dropped a liferaft, but Stark never emerged from the cockpit, and it was several hours before divers were able to reach the site. They were unable to retrieve the body, and the aircraft later sunk below the waves. A PAC spokesman told the Herald that the airplane probably didn't have any mechanical problem but just ran out of fuel. The NTSB is investigating.

[FWA NATCA]

Jim,

Thanks for the compliment, and you are correct, with the advent of GPS and all the other bells and whistles many pilots are all too willing to push the envelope and risk flying during marginal conditions.

I wish that more GA pilots would use the "I would rather be stuck in a hotel than stuck in the ground", test, before they decide to depart into marginal weather conditions, or continue on when stopping would be wiser.

Mike

[Jim Morehead]

Mike...Any time!

You are right. It is better to be parked in a motel somewhere than fighting it. Most of the controllers are sincere people trying to help. In fact, I think FSS people often are overly conservative though.

Often one checks on the wx and they read sigmets and airmets which are general. Most people with experience want to go as far as they can SAFELY and not rely on something vague as above. A lot of the FSS people do put their personal viewpoints to things unnecessarily. They don;t realize(like I said in the previous posting) about the background anyone has. They CAN'T know about some local yokel on the other end of a mike.

I think too, some are worried about liability.

But you have to study the situation,get updates, and never hestitate to park when it is not good.

[juba]

And some people wonder where avaition is going??? What a bunch of complete idiots - look back at this post and you see just how quick some are to condem the dead - yeap, they are the perfect pilot - sure they are. So fast to jump on the fuel issue, when an experinced pilot is dead - I just hope that the dedicated, professional pilot and decent human being waits for the facts to be given and then we can all learn - Happy 2004 and think before you lauch into blame - it could be you next - I have only edited this reply as I read again the satement from topman999 and I wanted to make sure this total ***** was named.
Cheers

[NoseGear]

Juba, you can read more of Topmans enlightening posts over on the Rumors and News forum under the 747 crash at Lagos thread (page 6). You will soon see he has no idea of what he speaks.:yuk: :suspect:

And I am still waiting on an answer Topman???????


Nosey

[noflow]

It's bad enough when the media jumps to conclusions. Please lighten up and quit the armchair quarterbacking. There are a myriad of issues that could have lead to fuel starvation. Aside from transfer issues there could have been abnormal consumption due to other mechanical problems. If the plane went down in deep water we'll probably never know.
For now can't we just say godspeed Kelvin and express our condolences to his friends and loved ones?

[tedstriker]

Nosegear,
I have also been following Titman's distasteful and uneducated ramblings with great amusement.
As a discussion forum, all posts are welcome - although it is sad to see blame being so quickly assigned to those who can't defend themselves...