View Full Version : Virgin 744 EGFF Today

7th Jun 2001, 13:02
Anyone know why there was a Virgin 744 at Cardiff this morning?

7th Jun 2001, 13:11
yes, because it landed there .....

7th Jun 2001, 13:30
Hassel this is a professional pilot's network. If you had anything to do with the profession you would know what VS was doing there.

This is not a spotters information network

Sorry guys but I have had just about had enough of PPRUNE. There is so much uneducated garbage it is becoming unpaletable. Either we clean it up or this PP is retiring from this medium.

7th Jun 2001, 13:44
Captain Magplug
1. I hold a UK ATPL
2. Have I touched a nerve.
3. Not being an frequency I asked here.
4. Chill Out.

7th Jun 2001, 14:03
Oh Please, I'm a professional pilot; i fly a 744; and I'm not aware of why? Or am I supposed to be monitoring my scanner at home!!! Your post will keep me laughing all week..............

PG :)

7th Jun 2001, 14:15
Popgun glad to see I have made a Real Pilot happy.
As another thread earlier,why is everyone so touchy. Let there be a private forum for pilots and I will gladly supply (better get spelling right or that will be picked up) my licence number, copy of my medical etc etc.
And the only scanner I have got is on my dashboard.

7th Jun 2001, 14:20
british Airways Maintenance (Cardiff) is an overhaul facility for 747 aircraft, amongst others, so it is very possible that is the reason for the visit.

BAMC is a wholly owned subsidary of BA and (if my understanding is correct) independant of BA, therefore they contract to all airlines. I believe they also have a very good reputation and manage to turn aircraft round fairly promptly.

Hope this answers the question.

7th Jun 2001, 14:26

You're not only a Professional Pilot but also aPolite Pilot.

7th Jun 2001, 15:58
Just checked out Magplug's profile........

For Occupation he has written: Captain

Just about say's it all doesn't it.....

Bye Bye Magplug (hopefully)

7th Jun 2001, 16:07
Maybe going slightly off thread, but I have seen this issue of Professional Pilots only on PPrune before.

Its obviously up to Danny how he plays with his own train set but I for one would welcome a public forum solely for Professional Pilots. (There is an awfully high ratio of chaff to wheat on it at the moment and has been for a long time. This problem is getting worse.) Failing that, perhaps we could rename PPRUNE as something that more accurately reflects the background of its contributors.

7th Jun 2001, 17:49
Magplug, he asked a question, whats your problem??, yourself by the sounds of it. Tosser.

gul dukat
7th Jun 2001, 22:50
ok thin! would you ask this lot to leave or do we not fall into the chaff class?
(opening page of pprune)

Air Traffic Controllers, Engineers, Cabin Crew, Operations, Crewing and Rostering staff are also welcome as well as anybody else with a connection or interest in professional aviation.

I am an atco with some 23 years in the business...I ask the occassional dumb question ..surely you don't begrudge someone that ..and it is a "Rumours" page after all ...might have been something juicy there no?

7th Jun 2001, 23:05
A PProFFessional PPRuNe would certainly be well informed. It would probably be authoritative.

It would sure as hell be dull.

Dan Winterland
7th Jun 2001, 23:24
I concur. One of the nice things about pprune is the ability for people to chip in regardless of perceived status. One can ignore the spotter/banal topics if one doesn't like reading them.

7th Jun 2001, 23:24
Hassel you snookered MagPlug beautifully.

You ask a perfectly sensible question, of interest to a professional airline pilot on a professional pilot's forum, and what does he do?

Leap to a conclusion and jump on the opportunity to demonstrate his "superiority".

And then your second post was a peach. Marvellous entertainment. Bet he goes quiet for a while.

7th Jun 2001, 23:36

As I said earlier it is inconceivable that a ProfP on the UK circuit does not know about the (enormous) BA maintenance facility at CWL. If you truly hold a UK ATPL then you have my profound apologies but judging by some of the posts thereafter it would seem I am not alone in my conclusion.


For your amusement I have changed my profile to Estate Agent / Joe Bloggs / Spotter etc. As it is clearly unacceptable to you to quote your position or have anything to do with real aviation. You don’t seem to like skippers ? That must be a barrel of laughs on a five day trip.


Nice to see we are keeping the IQ level of the forum up

gul dukat

Input from aviation professionals is always welcome on this forum and I will vociferously defend you against anyone who maintains otherwise.


You are spot-on correct the wheat / chaff ratio has reached the point where we have more spotters that informed opinion. I realise it is Danny’s train set but something needs to be done. I have talked to a number of colleagues who have totally lost interest in this medium because there is literally so much chaff to sort through before getting to the real meat of any debate.

Regards, Magplug - Estate agent, scanner jockey and all round anorak

(Waiting to be corrected by a real pilot on my spelling)

Penn Doff
8th Jun 2001, 01:56
Magplug do you work for VS? If you did you may know that the B744's are maintained in AMS. Although rumour has it that VS & SQ may build a maintenance facility at Cardiff in a deal with QnetQ or what ever the new name for DERA is.

"please report further"

8th Jun 2001, 02:06
I wasn't really aware of the extent of the maintenance base at cardiff, and nor did it seem obvious to me when I saw the post. After a good half page of mud slinging (instigated by magplug), I finally learnt the very simple answer to the question.
The problem with pprune has nothing to do with 'wheat' and everything to do with people flying off the handle for the smallest reason, and the ensueing arguement. It spoils the thread, and makes it diverge from the original topic. Much like this thread in fact. Like i've said before, we should have an 'arrogant @$$holes' forum for any idiots who want to slug it out.
Nothing wrong with a good debate but some people take this way too personally!

Capt PPRuNe
8th Jun 2001, 02:09
Drop the slagging or lose the thread. No need to perpetuate infantile comments with more of the same. :mad:

Capt PPRuNe
aka Danny Fyne
The Professional Pilots RUmour NEtwork

9th Jun 2001, 01:37
Try the engineers and techs forum a few of them work at Taffs Garage (BAMC). I guess one of the guys there will give you a straight answer.

9th Jun 2001, 02:00
For chrissakes lets just perm the options:-

1) It was on a publicity stunt for the bearded one.
2)It diverted.
3)It was in for a service.
4)It was on a training detail.

Any more suggestions??

Penn Doff
9th Jun 2001, 02:17
My money would be on option 4

"please report further"

9th Jun 2001, 02:28
So what was the VS 744 doing at Cardiff?
Sorry to cut in on the pilots are better that spotters bitchin' session.

PS did anyone get the registration?

9th Jun 2001, 03:25

9th Jun 2001, 04:04

9th Jun 2001, 04:18

9th Jun 2001, 05:34
First, as a courtesy to allow MagPlug to stop reading immediately, I am not a pilot. I don't pretend to be in my profile. I am not employed in the aviation industry, but I do work contractually in the industry from time to time.

I want to make two comments on MagPlug's position on the nature of PPRune and those who lurk here.

1. I have been participating in electronic asynchronous discussion forums such as PPRune sine 1987 - that is, since before there was a public access Internet. Every one I have ever stayed in for any length of time has had its MagPlugs (in the pre public access days they were usually university faculty complaining about the vapid contributions of undergraduates, or military officers complaining about the vapidity of enlisted men).

What typically happens is that the MagPlugs eventually pick up their ball and go and play by themselves, using some form of screening to cut out the silly people that they don't want to play with. What has ALWAYS happened then in my experience (and I've seen this dozens of times)is that to their surprise and horror they find that their selective playground turns out to be even more beset by the petty and the 'irrelevant' than the one they left. The final stage of the life cycle of the breakaway forum is that its members slowly creep back into the original forum, or else they disappear from the electronic community completely.

My second observation is by way of a suggestion as to why this may be so. In fact diverse open systems are much more robust, lively and full of interesting ideas than are unitary closed ones. TSadly it transpires that single groups of 'professionals' don't have a lot to say to each other, and do not stimulate each other very much (just go and listen to doctors on a golf course!). This is a truism demonstrated empirically in the psychological research which is MY playground. In groups of highly trained technical professionals new ideas tend to be generated from crossing the boundaries into other groups rather than from within. Left to themsleves highly skilled and trained professionals tend to CLOSE DOWN the discussion space rather than open it up.

It is the very presence of others with different perspectives that creates the life of these forums. Of course MagPlug is correct to the extent that it is ALSO true that it generates a lot of the irritating, the ill-informed and the petty. Bu the experience is clear. You can't have the interesting and lively without the slag.

9th Jun 2001, 08:19
Nice post. One question. How can you claim that an HS748 operator in UK (for example) is in exactly the same group as an SIA 744 operator. I have nothing whatsoever against the spotters, but this is a PROFESSIONAL PILOTS RUMOUR NETWORK and with all due respect to the spotters I am far more interested in comparing terms, conditions, routes, technical advances etc with my fellow professionals than trying to find out the tail letters of an aircraft doing circuits and bumps.

Time to make some changes Danny. At the moment PPRUNE is false advertising.

PS. If closed forums dont work, why do we have so many airline specific forums then?

Edited for PS.

[This message has been edited by THINALBERT (edited 09 June 2001).]

9th Jun 2001, 08:47
Who the hell cares why the VS 744 was at Cardiff? I can't believe this question generated two pages of comment. Why did the deviate cross the road? Because he couldn't pull his d**k out of the chicken's ar*e! So there is your answer. Cheers, HD.

Niaga Dessip
9th Jun 2001, 16:47
Pprune provides a valuable service in allowing professional pilots relieve the stress many of them seem to be suffering, judging by some of the jaded comments on these threads. Good luck, and be safe.

9th Jun 2001, 19:52
Those of us on this side of the pond where 'spotters' are virtually unknown, watch with bemusement these wars which erupt from time to time. Hard to understand pros getting so upset about something so utterly inconsequential.
But I do have a suggestion - move the Questions forum so that it appears immediately under R&N on the summary page. Perhaps then the reggie hunters among us will post there, since they seem not to have grasped the concept of scrolling down.

(Of course I would hope the CP washes out the immature and banal in short order.)

Jurassic Jet Man
9th Jun 2001, 20:18
Look you - how come so many heavy aircraft and maint facilities in Wales? Do the Taffs work for less? Do they leave a golden leek after they finish their work? Do they sing together in beautiful baritones and tenors as they do heavy checks?

Wot is the secret about Wales? Last time I visited the place (admittedly years ago) the pubs were closed on Sunday! aaaaggghhhhh

JJM :)

9th Jun 2001, 20:20

Actually I read you posting with interest and I think what you say is very true. It is postings such as yours that make interesting reading and generate intelligent debate - As opposed to why is X landing at Y?

My moment of frustration has generated debate from both camps and no small amount of vitreol toward me from one or two of my more vocal colleagues.

The broad spectrum of professional experience that contributes to this forum is for the most part a joy to read - and as I have already suggested above those contributions are not confined to aviation professionals but include folk such as yourself

I do however strongly support THINALBERT's view that we must somehow filter out more of the chaff but frankly I am at a bit of a loss to know how.

Magplug - Flamed Medium/Rare

9th Jun 2001, 20:48
I believe the specific private forums were designed to alleviate some of the anguish and anxiety some people have over mere mortals participating in this forum.
Personnally I prefer a mix of experience and tastes to keep life interesting, nothing worse than a 15 hour duty with a flight deck member whose only reason for living is flying, ´blah,blah,blah!! ´-Yawn mind you it does help me get that much needed sleep. Wake me at TOD!

9th Jun 2001, 20:53
What was VS doing in Cardiff? What on earth is wrong with that question? A little bit of lateral thinking here guys, not everybody knows what goes on in the UK. Mind you does anyone...I digress....personally I found it an interesting point that VS sends its aircraft to Cardiff. That's the whole point about this site, we can actually learn something from each other. I can only assume from the previous posts that someone has a maintenance facility there as well as some good singers and a rugby ground.

In a similar vein VS had three B744's all in a row, basking in the winter sunshine outside ANZ's engineering facility in Auckland the other day....anyone want the rego's.....

9th Jun 2001, 21:51
Mag and Thin,

For 2 "professionals" who claim to want this forum for themselves (I didn't see anyone else supporting your viewpoint) to compare terms, conditions, etc with their fellow "professionals", you 2 seem to have very little to share from your sides of the fence, judging from your registration dates and limited numbers of posts.

What's up with that?

9th Jun 2001, 22:55
In answer to the original question - I think it was the VIR3 inbound to LL but didnt have enough petrol to hold. Not very exiting was it?

Chirpy Pilot
9th Jun 2001, 23:21
I also saw a Virgin 744 at Heathrow today
Brilliant sight in the hold over Wescott

10th Jun 2001, 00:15
Wescott's 40th birthday party today.

10th Jun 2001, 00:57
Well I have just seen the posts.
Realistic http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/cheering.gif

Twisted http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/Gif/bart-moon.gif

And would the crew who diverted own up.

[This message has been edited by hassel (edited 09 June 2001).]

10th Jun 2001, 01:05
This thread is great. To see so many grown men (/women...being PC) biting when the p**s is being taken is better than Emmerdale. I don't work in aviation although I've been associated with it for 20 years. If you can't laugh at yourself then who can you laugh at?

10th Jun 2001, 05:41

From a yank, I have to disagree. Eastenders is far superior to Emmerdale, and you can watch it on BBC at THE AULD DUBLIN every night it's on if you are ever stuck in Malaga. (go to Torremolinos and ask for George or Chris)

10th Jun 2001, 07:54
Down in3

The whole thrust of my point was quality v quantity, I,m not interested in how many posts are on PPRUNE, just how many are PROFESSIONAL, relevant to PILOTS and contribute to the RUMOUR NETWORK.

Nobody has anything against honest discussion relevant to that, but I,m getting fed up with the amount of anoraks on the site who would be better served by their own separate forum.

Personally, I think the battle has already been lost, and that is perhaps why you dont see too many posts from me. After all, I,m only a PROFESSIONAL PILOT, so I do feel a bit outnumbered on PPRUNE.

Office Update
10th Jun 2001, 08:46
God almighty! I thought the D&G zone was bad but you Pom's leave it foe dead when it comes to sniping!!

10th Jun 2001, 20:15
I know which plane it was, where it came from, why it went there. But I'm only a Licensed Aircraft Engineer so maybe I shouldn't respond to this thread or even be able to read PPRUNE as in some peoples arrogant view I'm not professional enough!!!

10th Jun 2001, 23:49
Hey Snap Off why not tell some of your VC10 war stories over on the military pilots forum, oh sorry we are not welcome there either!!!!!

"Noted With Thanks"

11th Jun 2001, 00:42
Snap Off,

If you want to contribute to this public forum then go ahead. It certainly appears there are some seriously misguided people out there that consider they have an exclusive franchise on posting rights. I'd like to hear what you've got to say.

11th Jun 2001, 02:20
Actually it was a courtesy flight, laid on specially by RB for Graham Henry's wife.

The aircraft was provided for her so that she could join Henry on his birthday in Australia on the Lions tour.

Quite obvious really.

How do I know?

Well I could tell you but then I'd have to kill you; sworn to secrecy see, boyos!

Capt PPRuNe
11th Jun 2001, 03:58
About time to put this one to bed methinks!

Magplug, in response to your question: "I do however strongly support THINALBERT's view that we must somehow filter out more of the chaff but frankly I am at a bit of a loss to know how." It is quite simple really, I have to stay logged on 24 hours a day and check every forum every few minutes and as soon as I see something that I 'suspect' is not worthy of discussion or 'suspect' is not posted by a fully licenced, employed, professional pilot then I either delete it or move it to the 'Non Professional' forum.

It is not possible unless large sums of money are invested and I employ shifts of monitors who have editorial integrity and that is just not going to happen. So, we are left with a thread that would have been moved to the 'Questions' forum as soon as I had noticed it but because you chose to question the posters 'rights' it has developed into a different discussion which is about to be closed.

It has been my experience over the years of running this web site that you can't keep all of the readers happy all of the time. You may not be able to keep all of the readers happy some of the time or some of the readers happy all of the time. It is a no win situation and the vast majority are able to get what they want out of it.

If you do not like something it is often much easier to just move on to a different thread or forum than to voice your opinion, I know I do but then again it is my experience that these forums wouldn't be half as entertaining some of the time!

Trust me, the private forums are nowhere nearly as interesting as these public ones and as it says on the opeing page on PPRuNe, this is a Professional Pilots Website open to anyone associated with our profession and that even includes the cutomers we serve, spotters or not! I have no hesitation moving what appears to be a spotters question to a more appropriate forum... I may not do so immediately though... I may be asleep when it is actually posted.

Capt PPRuNe
aka Danny Fyne
The Professional Pilots RUmour NEtwork

11th Jun 2001, 12:38
No Question in Aviation is a stupid one (well, most anyways)
I fly passenger aircraft from Cardiff nearly everyday.
Maybe the Virgin a/c was either:
A) On a charter or
B) Visiting the BA maintenance hangar on the North Side of the airport. or
C) it was lost.