The Aviation White Paper those key points in full NOT

[Bagso]

With due apologies to the makers of FUDGE !

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Force millions of potential passengers from The North Of England into driving down to an airport 4 hours away Stansted.

Subsidise this from Heathrow and Gatwick through airlines who do not want it in the first place.

Jeopardise the low cost market at Stansted by increasing the landing fees to then pay for it...

Don't bother exploring exactly who is going to actually pay for it ?

Don't bother creating and forming any kind of additional infrastructure at any of the proposed airports due for expansion. This is tactically brilliant and is particularly true at Birmingham where expansion of the access dual carriageway that runs past the airport has just been turned down. (see also Stansted)

Create a new short runway at Birmingham which is neither use nor ornament to man nor beast. (Shouldn't this be 100 mile North ?)

Don't mention anything about whether the ATC system can actually handle this (because it cannot) and don't then bother consulting ATC in case they don't agree with us the Government.

Talk loosely about a 3rd runway (currently the A4) somewhere near Heathrow sometime in the next century after this.

Waffle on about a bit of expansion at a few regional airports to keep them happy....

Don't encourage Long Haul airlines into using Manchester which is in fact the only viable alternative outside the South East.

Infact do not even mention Manchester as a viable option unless you have too !

Don't stop 50 shuttle flights a day from Manchester clogging up the London TMA by offering direct long haul service from where partial demand actually orginates...!

Produce additional waffle about noise, polution etc etc to keep
the green welly brigade happy.

Annoy just about everybody you can by doing completley the
wrong thing.

er that's it...!

[larry walker]

Bagso has raised some interesting points, a number of which are flawed.

His information about Birmingham is lacking in any credibility.

Taking a broader perspective, surely the government should be congratulated for at least raising the subject of the future growth of air travel in the United Kingdom over the next 20 - 30 years.

No date very few people will agree with all of the findings, but the subject has been brought into the public forum and consultation encouraged.

Surely this method is far better than that prevailing on the railways, where no long term view appears to have been taken and most money is spent on renewals, rather than expanding the network.

Whilst the aviation white paper raises perhaps more questions than answers at least its a start.

[chiglet]

larry
Look at the [so called] "proposals"
Stanstead gets a 2nd r/w, no probs
Brum gets a 2nd r/w......where?
Manchester, needs a "Real Parking Plan"....etc,etc,...but
Darling Alistair has missed the point, big style.
You either 1, build a new runway at LHR or 2, develope the "Regions".
IMMHO, Option 1 is [at best] flawed, or [at worst] insular.
Option 2, well that's heresy...for London, anyway.
Scotland, 2nd r/w [just to please the SA]? Why not Cardiff? to get the WA on board?
Oh beggar, rant over, [but if it is between Watford and the Cheviots, it don't exist, apart from errrm, oh yeah Sedgfield:ok:
watpiktch

[Bagso]

I hate to say it but I think its a shambles.....

They should have built another new airport in the south east 4 r/ws , room for expansion..... high speed links etc etc

Notwithstanding Manchesters current chronic parking problems they should have built a secondary hub at Manchester..... to attract more domestic trafffic then encouraged the likes of SAA, QANTAS etc to comeback in.... these service did not fail due to lack of passengers, there were mitigating circumstances !

The Government have tinkered around and basically done nothing.

Stansted will never be anything than a low cost airport that sucks in artificial demand from outside its own catchment area.

It was subsidised when it was built and would still make a loss now if it was not for continuing cross subsidy from LHR...!

I'm all for free competition so let it stand on its own two feet, raise its laning fees to a realistic level and see where we get to then ?

The second r/w at BHX will be a shorter parallel r/w, who pays ?

...and how on earth will it attract the massive volumes required
to then sustain it ? and its nearly 20 years off !

As for another r/w at LHR...pipedream, it will never happen !

So if this is an example of a sustained Aviation policy well I'm a dutchman...

At the end of the day it was all waffle, if I'm honest Manchester may well come out of this OK because the long haul sched airlines that currently operate into the South East will want to expand at some point and it is doubtful that they would operate to another airport so close.......

The main point is missed however...

At the end of the day there is no capacity in the S East....you could put 6 r/ws down there but there is simply no room in the skies above, the max ATM has been reached !

There was not one mention of the supporting systems that sustain all this A.T.C. post this in the ATC forum and see what the guys say there !

[OLNEY 1 BRAVO]

There is a more substantial thread on this topic on Rumours and News.