Courses - Are they any good?

[rpah01]

Hello all,

I'm currently looking into doing a couple of aviation courses, Aviation Foundation Studies & Airport Operations by AVTECH in the UK, and wanted to know if anyone has completed such courses.

Are they useful and do they increase your chances when applying for Ops. jobs at the airport?

The reason I ask is that these courses are expensive and I would value any opinions on the usefulness of such courses before commiting. These are self study courses.

Currently work in IT.

Thanks in advance.

Raj.

[bagpiper]

Like yourself, I once considered doing the courses you have mentioned. I decided against it almost immediately after speaking to the guy on the phone as he sounded a:) like he had just got out of bed and b:) like he didn't what day of the week it was when the conversation did get going!!

At the point I was looking into these courses, I had been told by my employer that they were going to finance them if they were a decent enough outfit. I rung the number I got off the internet and (five days later and numerous answerphone messages to which they did not reply, later) was welcomed with a grumpy "Hello". Now when you are looking at putting money into these courses your initial reaction to this would be "is that it? Hello". Anyway, the conversation developed somewhat and to cut a long story short I was told by this guy that not only did I have to pay the whole sum up front, but that he could not promise when all the modules for the course would be finished, if at all!! Does this sound cosher to you?!?!

Now granted, things may have changed somewhat since my phonecall, but my advice would be to STEER CLEAR!! Needless to say I am still looking for a suitable course for my employer to put me on!

Best of luck!

[Who'stheDaddy]

Call me a cynic but....

If you want to get anywhere in this industry now you have to do it yourself!!!

I put myself thru the FAA flight dispatch course as i believed this was the best way forward FOR MY CAREER, got a job and promotion shortly followed as the company I work for, no longer send or bond people to go and do the licence (other courses may be sutable for your path).

My point is... Gone are the days when MOST employers will pay for expensive training unless you have been with them for yrs.

Potential employers look favourably on people who take it upon themselves and show willing and foresight.

My advice, lots of research on school and course.... Lots of shysters and timewasters about - (see previous threads)

CHOOSE WISELY!!!!

WTD

[G-BUNZ Seeker]

May I suggest you contact C.A.T.S. They do courses for both ppl ground school and Aviation Studies. A very experienced and knowledgable instructor who is keen to pass this on to those who listen.

Look at www.catsflying.org.uk

Seeker:ok:

[Uncle Cracker]

I second WtD's opinions. If your gonna pay your own hard-earned for a course, then first make sure it will be recognised by your potential employer. There are those who still attempt to sell their own course as the one which is or will shortly be the industry standard when it is not. :mad: I suggest you do a search for previous threads on the subject and read very carefully....
While the FAA course is obviously not a UK standard, it would probably count a hell of a lot more at yer interview than something nobody has heard of. (Or have heard of at great length on these hallowed pages.)

[ohitsmonday]

I am surprised to hear avtech being described like this. I have attended a few courses tutored by someone who is now affiliated with them. The man who taught me was/is hugely experienced and knew his stuff.

Mr W.... answer your critics

[no sig]

There are two internationally recognised qualifications for airline operations officers- the FAA Flight Dispatcher licence and (see IFALDA.org for info) and the ICAO Flight Operations officers licence.

The FAA and many other countries use the former and the CAA and the JAA are moving towards the later. These courses are pitched at the appropriate technical level and really should be industry standard, sadly in the UK they are not yet.

The AVTECH course are, or at least were, reasonably good introductions to airline and airport ops but fell short of the technical content and got out of date, if you have the opportunity then do the FAA or ICAO. Failing that why not do the JAA CPL or ATPL ground course it covers all you'll ever need with respect to the technical training content.

[Tenminutes]

Hi there no sig you didn't get the job at NOW then :confused:

[no sig]

That would be the Ops Managers position you're refering to Tenminutes?

Didn't ask for it...

[Tenminutes]

Hi no sig whichever job it was, just as well you didn't go then wasn't it ??

[Leezyjet]

JAA also do a course in Flight Dispatch, but it's a residential course in France for 3 weeks.

It's run by EAFAS (European Academy For Aviation Safety). It cost's 6,000 Euros and thats not including flights/hotel/food etc.

Contact :-

[email protected]

for more details or try their website -<www.eafas.com>

:)

[templar]

Hi there,

I did the Avtech course a while back and although it was very good , it lacked a little on the technical side of things. One thing about Avtech is this...you'll find the cost of the course hard to beat!! For £1000 or so you can get a city and guilds cert in flight ops which will get you interviews..believe me. When I had done the course I then went to the US to do an FAA dispatcher licence. You can use your experience from the Avtech course to shorten the time and decrease the cost of the FAA one. Sheffield School of Aeronautics are the leaders of the pack when it comes to FAA dispatcher training. They even have the test prep for free on their website, most other schools make you buy it and then waste your time and money trawling through it so that you emerge knowing only slightly more than when you went in..there's one in the "Lonestar State" that springs to mind..hint hint. Also with the exchange rate between the $US and £STG/Euro so good right now you'd be mad to pass up the chance to do the FAA.
Whichever route you choose, Good luck.

[M.85]

HI there,
Im also looking into doing a Flight dispatch course.
I saw Avtech website and emailed for more info.
Seems like the courses are similar to the JAA ATPL theory(mass&balance,A/C Perf...)
Does one with the JAA ATPL entitled to a reduced course?is q lot of experience needed to get a first job?Anyone knows of airlines recruiting?
Is long distance worth it?

Thanks,

M.85

[no sig]

M85, if you have already finished a JAA ATPL course, you have already done 95% or so of the ICAO Flight Ops licence course and you'll have no trouble working through the FAA ticket technical content, just the FAR's, AIM and US Weather to study. I suggest you don't waste your time on the AVTECH course. If you are after a dispatch qualification then you should do the FAA licence or find a country that will give you the ICAO FOO ticket based on your JAA licence. You might consider The Glasgow School of Nautical Studies, they have recently re-issued their ICAO Flight Ops Officers course- see their website.

But your JAA ATPL studies already give you all the technical content you will ever need for airline ops, you'll just have to get to grips with operational control, crewing and comms. With a JAA ATPL course completed I'd say you're already in a good postion to get hired into an airline ops department. Question will be however, why aren't you flying???

[M.85]

HI nosig,
Thanks a lot for your answer.
Ill be looking into glasgow flight ops course in a sec.
To answer your question on why i dont fly..its a good one..not sure either..maybe im over qualified for some and under qualified for other airlines..maybe being french with a JAA(UK)ATPL and all experience in the USA is a problem??I dont know anymore..I applied to a call centre now...maybe im qualifed to answer people on the phone...with a full JAA ATPL..

Ops work sounds like a very good alternative to flying..but that is if the airlines are willing to let me in knowing i have such a licence..

You talked about a FAA FOO..im not planning to go back to the USA..i guess glasgow is the place to go..however i heard theres more and more crimes around there..guns,knives..
:(

Are you working as a Flight ops ?

M.85

[no sig]

M85

I do think you have a good chance of finding a job in airline ops even if you are eventually planning to get back into the air. There are some who won't hire pilots as they know they'll move on, however, with your background you at least have a headstart so I wouldn't give up.

I would say you don't need to do anymore technical training airline ops control is something you can learn with the airline.

Also, the FAA Flight Dispatcher Licence isn't only required in the US and may prove valuable in many other countries, I'd consider doing that before anything else, also you may be able to do the FAA ATPL at the same time as its the same exam.

By the way, Glasgow is a great place and a safe city, you're thinking about the reputation it had in the 1960s.

Good luck and yes I am in airline ops.

[famous grouse]

Nice to see talking about Ops Courses again No sig !!

M85 - If you are seriously considering the "re-vamped" Glasgow course please take my advice and have a look at the thing first.

The original was sub standard quality and content. I am sure this has more than likely been addressed by Glasgow, but I would advise you request a sample of the work materials before you fork out your hard earned cash.

regrds
FG

[Mister Rainbow]

Now dont get me started again, FG!

[M.85]

hi famous,

Glasgow is out.
I checked a school in Dallas but the course is 4000$!!!scre* that..
I have opened a thread to see if anyone knows about actual airlines giving such courses..would you know of any?

Cheers,

M.85

no sig,

i already hold a FAA ATPL.
Thanks for help.

[famous grouse]

Mister Rainbow, how you doing old chap, long time no hear, wasn't meaning to raise old wounds !!

M85

With regards airlines running their own courses, I don't know of any. Most airlines will expect a certain degree of knowledge before they will take you on and the Avtech course might be sufficient to get you in. I got my first job in ops on the basis of studying the basic C&G 7281 foundation course.

There is at present as far as I am aware no ICAO Flight Operations officers licence for UK operators. That's not to say there won't be in the future. Currently under JAR OPS the company you work for must provide "relevant training" in accordance with ICAO DOC 7192 D3. (see some of the older threads on the Glasgow course if you have the stomach for it !!).

Once in, its usually on the job training to tailor you to the procedures of that particular airline and the systems they use.

Much of airline operations, IMHO, is down to common sense. In all honesty you pick up most of what you need through experience and a desire to learn. Once in, don't spend a quiet night snoozing or watching the tv, browse through the company manuals, the more you know the more respect you gain.

Its all down to your CV being in the right place at the right time, but anything you can do to make employers look at you above the rest will vastly improve your chances.

Good luck mate, keep us posted on what you do
FG