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old_cross_bound
10th Sep 2001, 10:19
I was reading the "Taliban attitude" thread and I couldn't believe what the likes of Bob Hawke etc... were saying.
Guyincognito, I'll fight in your foxhole anytime. You too Judy!

When are you dummys going to wake and realize that what you are facing once Christianity is taken out of the way?
It is pure fanaticism from the rest of the world. Does anyone think that the rest of the world is going to listen to your particular view of diesm or secularism? It's Islamic Jihads from now on, make no mistake. These other minority views are just leaves in the wind. They are a fantasy if I've ever considered one.

The thought police are everywhere now and censorship is no longer the exception on the internet but rather the standard based on some really silly global standard which is based in nothingness and the U.N. supports one and only one religion, Islam!

Bring on thoughtlessness... World! The internet mentality has been primed and is ready for it. Your religious freedoms are history!

ps. Doesn't the Iridium Satelites look stupid in the sky at night? That's scenic polution next to the natural stars and planets, don't you think? It should be stopped. Lets shoot them all down in the name of privacy. I don't think my 50 caliber will reach but if anyone has any idea's, I'm all ears.

Ok thought police, do your thing!

Come strong or don't come at all! ;)

[ 10 September 2001: Message edited by: old_cross_bound ]

NoSurrender
10th Sep 2001, 12:02
Sadly OCB I find myself in agreement with you. Having worked for a Saudi broadcaster for nearly six years I was left in no doubt as to their mentality.
I would not allow any immigrants into this country who would not renounce Islam.
Are there any Sikh pprune members with a view on this subject?

Slasher
10th Sep 2001, 12:25
Luckey for me I live in a self-professed Atheist State where the commies keep the islamics (and christians) under VERY strict control and dont give them an inch. Buddists are given a blind eye because theres no such thing as buddist fundamentalist terrorist groups, and they give everyone the utter sh!ts like the other two do. Buddism has no hang-ups on sex or booze so its tolerated by everyone, even atheists like me who cant stand any form of silly outdated mysticism.
Then again life under commie rule is realy not that much diferent from say Iran. Only real diference is theres no cat-screeching "allah akbar!" or "marg darg Amrika!" at 5am, so everyone gets to stay asleep until the commie anthem blares on the public loudpeaker at 7. Basic freedoms are supressed under communism just as they are under islam. Still Id rather drink with a die-hard commie than a mat-thrashing bloodey islamic anyday.

PS BTW OCB Iridium went tits-up thank christ last year. We use other commsat companys now. And dont shoot them down! There my only real link to the outside civilised world! :(

[ 10 September 2001: Message edited by: Slasher ]

HugMonster
10th Sep 2001, 17:46
I'm all in favour of total separation of church and state. No "official" religion, give 'em all equal rights (or is that "equal rites"? :D) Anyone wants to start an all-baptist school, or all-islamic, or all-scientologist, fine, but no state funding. No discrimination on religious grounds at all, and when Charlie succeeds to the throne, instead of the coronation being at Westminster Abbey, hold it at Wembley, or the National Indoor Arena, or similar.

guyincognito
11th Sep 2001, 05:36
I was listening with interest on Sunday night to the Radio Australia 'The Spirit of Things' spiritual review program. It's run by a new-ager who likes to talk in a very 'spiritual' tone of voice and experience everything. Anyway, she subscribes to all the usual 'all roads lead to God' and 'let's mix up religions to make a cocktail to suit your needs' type stuff, but was interviewing a prolific Indian writer who had done a lot of research of India. He was not a Hindu, though. He had grown up in Trinidad and proclaimed to be of no faith.

He was very un-PC, which the host struggled with continually. He said some interesting stuff, though. He blamed Muslim raiders for the desolation of modern India. He said they came through centuries ago and wiped out the land, leaving nothing of value in its place. He said that Hinduism had basically succumbed to defeatism since then, which really annoyed him.

He claimed that Islam destroyed culture and demolished history wherever their missionaries went. The host tried to paint Christian mission with the same light, but he (of no faith) said that Christianity had had no such effect during their mission work, which was an unusually generous assessment, I thought (and a welcome change).

Like I've said before, I know there's some really nice Muslims out there. But that doesn't change the fact that their religion is wrong, not to mention profoundly anti-human.

This guy on the radio (I wish I could remember his name) claimed that Muslim refugees should be willing to give up their religion on arrival in a western, non-Muslim country, since they have fled Islamic rule, and should not bring their oppression with them. I'm not sure I agree with them, but it is interesting to see the percentage of refugees from Islamic countries.

old_cross_bound
11th Sep 2001, 10:49
Slasher,

I'd be interested in knowing what country you are from.

You said: "PS BTW OCB Iridium went tits-up thank christ last year. We use other commsat companys now. And dont shoot them down! There my only real link to the outside civilised world!"

These satelites fulfill scripture though as the mark is coming to the entire world via these communication devices. No buying or selling without it, is next on the agenda just as the Christian bible says. The problem is, who is then in charge of it, if not a world dictator? The other problem is the wrath of God which no one believes in so I won't go there. (BTW, thanking Christ makes no sense in this context.)

The Iridium system was doom from the onset purposely so that we, the taxpayers, could foot the bill for the system while they, the governments involved, make all the money. The rest of the world will be billed later through demanded use of the systems involved. I've been following them for some time now. They have created a web or prison so to speak for every person on the planet actually. Anyone interested in freedom and liberty should want to shoot them all down. I won't shoot them though as my faith says that this is what is prophesied and must come to pass.

If anyone gets the chance to visit the UN, in New York, it will not only be worth your time but you will quickly notice just how pro - Islamic and anti- everything else, it really is. (except maybe paganism, with all it's mythology etc...)

Since the UN is responsible for sending in blue hat troops, anywhere they please, including any supposedly sovereign country on the planet, it should be rather alarming to realize that it is a slanted organization religiously speaking. I've been following an organization called: persecution.com. which reports on the Islamic attacks going on right now against Christianity worldwide. It's not much different than the daily reports from Israel on these fundamental insane radicals.

old_cross_bound
11th Sep 2001, 11:08
HugMonster,

The problem with seperation of church/state is everyone (human), in the government, is pressupposed in their thinking in one way or another. You cannot legislate "influence" anymore than you can legislate "love" for mankind. The political wind is going to shift again and again, no matter what.

Guyincognito,

Imagine some Muslims coming into America or Australia or England and are demanded, by our government, to give up Islam for Christianity or Judism etc..., not to talk about Islam at all, while in the country and if they do then they will be sentenced to death for such behavior.
This Islamic practice is really going on around the world by countires who have just as much pull at the U.N. as anyone else. It's an incredible double standard when put in perspective and it's being totally ignored. Amazing!
I've never heard of a country that has gone Muslim, ever seeing freedom and liberty again.

[ 11 September 2001: Message edited by: old_cross_bound ]

tony draper
11th Sep 2001, 15:09
I have to agree Islam is the enemy of our western culture.
You can argue that western culture is so shallow and hollow it doesn't deserve to survive, but thats another thread.
I can see with certainty, twenty, thirty years down the line people strapping on bombs and walking into resturants in London and other British cities, all in the name of the prophet, and for a independent Islamic state of West Yorkshire.
Groups of second generation Balkan refugee's carrying on their thousand year feuds in the heart of England.
Dosen't really bother me, its a problem for your generation, hide your heads in the sand.
There is a population of Asians in my home town, fine hard working law abiding people,they have been a benifit to my area without doubt, the main difference being they are Ugandan Asians, thouroghly westernised before they came here.
I can see not one single benifit from this multi culturism, that has the luvies cooing and hugging themselves with glee.
Imigrants to the USA, possibly the most successful mass migration had one thing in common, they wished to become Americans
The desire to become British is positivly discouraged in this country.
Islam seems to have reached the same belligerant state christianity was at 500 years ago,in its earlier form it was a tolerant faith with a love of learning,that has completely dissapeared.
And for those who will post that the majority of Islamic peoples are ok,and that the fanatics are only small in number, that is probably true,but I can take you to housing estates in this country with 95% percent of the people who live there are fine decent people, its the 5%percent of toerag families that turn those estates into lawless third world sh*tholes.
The loud minority will always prevail and have more influence than the quiet complacent majority.

[ 11 September 2001: Message edited by: tony draper ]

old_cross_bound
12th Sep 2001, 00:54
UNFORTUNATELY, my point was driven home this morning in New York, Washington and Pennsylvania.
My Christian way of handling differences in beliefs has been seen here in arguments for the past 10 months. The Islamic way is to drive 757's throw tall buildings then discussing our differences later. Death to Islam, eternally!

[ 12 September 2001: Message edited by: old_cross_bound ]

Slasher
12th Sep 2001, 09:48
Well said Drapes. I have nothing but bitter hatred for islam but I DO see that not all of these d!ckheads are murderous. The same can be said of christianity comparing it with N. Ireland. Ive always said islam was 400-500 years behind christianity, so it means another 400 blood-stained years till islam is finaly realised by the retarded ignorant unwashed masses for the superstitious bullsh!t it truley is.

And btw OCB while I share your contempt for islam, just dont forget pal that your bloodey christianitys score on the murder-card is still much higher than islams. May both idiotic and backward beliefs be finaly buried forever. The world would become a safer place.

old_cross_bound
12th Sep 2001, 19:59
Slasher


"And btw OCB while I share your contempt for islam, just dont forget pal that your bloodey christianitys score on the murder-card is still much higher than islams. May both idiotic and backward beliefs be finaly buried forever. The world would become a safer place."

I won't forget pal that atheist Marxism like you, dawfs all the Islamic terrorism around the world. I won't forget that dealing with the likes of you is just as important as dealing with Muslim fanatics, I won't forget, don't worry about that pal, I won't.

I had not forgotten prior to this heartless act and I won't forget in the future. I have not forgotten about Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot either since they have demonstrated just as much heartlessness as you are doing toward Christianity here. The God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob will fix your little wagon, pal, eternally!

tony draper
12th Sep 2001, 20:27
Don't quite know what to say, wish I hadden,t psted that now, for justification I have personell reasons for distrusting islam that go back forty years I will not elaberate on that.
I view with disquiet the establishment of a large islamic population in my country,thats by the by, I will never mention that again.
I am one of those very lucky few percent that does not and never has had the slightest religious feeling in my entire body
I was introduced to christianity like most when I was very young, I instantly knew it was nonesence, and nothing since has changed my mind.
This does not mean I can't lookin wonder on a fine sunset or have my heart soar at a piece of fine landscape, the difference being I have a good idea what causes these phenomena and effects.
Religion is a curse to curiosity, why look for answers when its all down in those ancient books.
Books written two thousand years ago by ignorant supersticious hayseeds.
So all in all I have no love for organised religions in all there forms, they have been all in all a definate force for evil in this world.

Angel Gabrielle
12th Sep 2001, 20:42
OCB what makes you different to the Taliban, what makes you different to those who would destroy in the name of their religion all who disagree with your view or belief.

'Death to all Islam' yes, indeed there were many muslims killed in this senseless act, it was not confined to American citizens nor to Christians.

There is an unpleasant undertone of gloating in your posts, which is distasteful to all of us who lost friends and family in this horrendous act.

'Death to the Unbeliever' is a clarion call for all fundamentalists to justify acts of barbarism against 'outsiders' be they Christian, Muslim, Hindu or any race, creed or colour that is different.

old_cross_bound
13th Sep 2001, 19:13
Religion is a curse to curiosity, why look for answers when its all down in those ancient books.
Books written two thousand years ago by ignorant supersticious hayseeds.
So all in all I have no love for organised religions in all there forms, they have been all in all a definate force for evil in this world

Tony,

***SO what in the world makes you think that you have a better solution with the absents of religion today then having the one right faith and many wrong faiths hundreds of years ago. Your way of thinking has been tried also. Marxism is failer also. It not question of the right religion or the right nonreligion, religion! It's a question of, is there a real God? ; and who is this real God of the Universe?!

OCB what makes you different to the Taliban, what makes you different to those who would destroy in the name of their religion all who disagree with your view or belief.

Angel goof,

***I come on these forms and talk about my religious view openly. I don't jump into an airplane and express my religious views by crashing into a building. I know that absolution comes from the gospel of Jesus Christ and knowing him personally not from committing suicide by killing myself and hundreds of innocent people to get to heaven.

'Death to all Islam' yes, indeed there were many muslims killed in this senseless act, it was not confined to American citizens nor to Christians.

***The islamic belief is a lie, it's based in lies and deceptions, it's fruit is being shown all over the world right now. If you want to support them then join them. They are the enemy of civilization, my way of life and God as I know him to be so I stand firmly by the comment.

There is an unpleasant undertone of gloating in your posts, which is distasteful to all of us who lost friends and family in this horrendous act.

***Your opinion stinks. It's based in ignorance. That's my opinion.

'Death to the Unbeliever' is a clarion call for all fundamentalists to justify acts of barbarism against 'outsiders' be they Christian, Muslim, Hindu or any race, creed or colour that is different.

***.....and down right stupid! Keep talking and you'll have Christians flying those planes instead of Muslims in a few more post.

[ 13 September 2001: Message edited by: old_cross_bound ]

Token Bird
13th Sep 2001, 19:46
old_cross_bound - while there are still ignorant, narrow-minded people like yourself in the world there will also be terrorism. People like you are responsible for perpetuating the problem.

Your quote:

'I don't jump into an airplane and express my religious views by crashing into a building'.

Well no, for one thing, if you did you wouldn't be able to post anymore. Might I point out that there are millions of Muslims that also did not get into a 'plane on Tuesday and crash it into a building. So congratulations. You should be commended for expressing your religious views merely with unprovoked racial hate messages on the internet. :rolleyes:

tony draper
13th Sep 2001, 21:06
I'm quite convinced that the reason the modern world, the industrial and scientific revolution started in Britain was because Henry V111 Castrated the church in this country,oh it continued to be a bastard for a couple of hundred years but after that don't think anybody paid much heed to it.
Look at the evidence, the basis of mathematics and enquiry started with the greeks I suppose, don't think they were very heavily into any particular religion, no doubt someone will correct me if I'm wrong there.
Ironicly the arabs kept the light burning, and it is perhaps they who should have founded the modern world, their stupid religion put pay to that, why ask?, the prophet has all the answers.
Then Italy I suppose, astronomy, mathematics,anatomy, don't go there or the church will sit you on a pile of firewood.
So we come to Britain with its wishy washy religion patched together so old Henry could get his leg over Anne Bolyne.
Be grateful for this countries less than godfearing ways Mr OCB,or you might still be walking behind a couple of mules, working for the man up in the castle. ;)
If you don't believe that sit down with a sheet of paper sometime, and start writing down what this little island gave this world in terms of invention, discovery,and the start of the very sciences themselves, you will need a very, very,very, large sheet of paper.
To a certain extent your country took over Britains roll, and brought the world even further, don't put yourself back behind the plow with christian fundamentalism.
Organised religion has never done squat for anyone, except keep them in poverty and ignorance.
Oh they've cleaned up there act now, wtih the exception of Islam, but they are still living in a medieval world anyway, and shortly they may be living in a stoneage one.
You aint going anywhere but back into the oblivion you knew ,or rather didn't know before you were born, don't let the bastards con you with tales of the hereafter Mr OCB, there aint no such place.

[ 13 September 2001: Message edited by: tony draper ]

old_cross_bound
14th Sep 2001, 07:17
Token Bird ,

This is hardly worth commenting on but I will. Islam is all about taking control of the world and that includes you.
You think I'm a radical full of racial hate for what reason. None! This has nothing to do with race at all. It has to do with ideology and religious beliefs. If anyone is filled with hate here it is obviously you and your hatred for my opinion nothing more.

Islam has been doing this kind of thing for the past 35 years publically. ( Actually for the past 1300 years ) Islam is against anything that is not for Islam. Islam does not mind killing anyone, anytime, anywhere. Islam is the enemy here make no mistake.

If you don't get it yet, you will. It what they "all" think and believe that is the agenda. It will always be the agenda since their lives are under the control of their "thinking!"

old_cross_bound
14th Sep 2001, 07:30
tony draper,

You believe whatever you want I don't care. The gospel has been made available to everyone who is willing to hear it. The eternal hereafter is a lot longer than this short life so go on with the temporal if that's your choice. It use to be said that the sun never sets on the British Empire but that can no longer be said. The flag on the moon is from the USA without the aid of Britian and the tea party was in the name of religious freedom as much as anything else.

Your glory is hopeless, and you are in misery in your faithlessness. You make no sense because you can't. The condition of your heart is what you have reaped from what you have sowed not the other way around. America will deal with these Muslims with or without the like of you and the it appears that Britian is not behind your kind of thinking at all.

HugMonster
14th Sep 2001, 07:59
OCB, I shall say this once and once only to you.

Do not bring any more of your anti-Islamic bile and bigotry in here. Your fundamentalist extremism is every bit as odious, insidious and poisonous as that of those who perpetrated those horrific acts of three days ago.

Islam is not about conquering the world, it is not about carrying out such acts, it is not about killing. There are many Muslim pilots on here, as there are Christians, Jews, Pelagian Syncretists, etc. etc. They all belong here before you do, and they do not deserve to have you insult their beliefs with your blinkered, unintelligent, bigoted ramblings.

Your hatred and irrational wish to destroy anything with which you disagree would find many friends in places like Kabul and Tripoli.

[ 14 September 2001: Message edited by: HugMonster ]

old_cross_bound
14th Sep 2001, 08:14
HugMonster

OCB, I shall say this once and once only to you.
Do not bring any more of your anti-Islamic bile and bigotry in here.

***You are so right! I suppose I should continue to tiptoe around the spinless.

Your fundamentalist extremism is every bit as odious, insidious and poisonous as that of those who perpetrated those horrific acts of three days ago.

***Your fundementally liberal extremism is perfectly perfect I guess. Go tell that to the family of the pilots who died not me.

Islam is not about conquering the world, it is not about carrying out such acts, it is not about killing.

***Congradulations, for one who has his head buried in the sand you have managed to get yours buried deeper than anyone else here.

Your hatred and irrational wish to destroy anything with which you disagree would find many friends in places like Kabul and Tripoli.

***This is the begining of a global police state now whether you, and your present liberties, like it or not. Your silly liberal dream is coming to an end now.
You already know what I think about your ultimatums so there is no need to comment on that.

tony draper
14th Sep 2001, 11:49
I don't think you read my post MR OCB, I gave credit to America for taking over the roll that Britain used to have, in my book putting men on the moon was the greatest achievment by mankind to date.
One of the prime reasons it was done in the USA was because like Britain you folks are not constrained by, if its not in the holy books we can't do it.
I have no objections to your post's Mr OCB, I see far worse than your on other sites, every forum seems to have its OCB,most of them nowhere near as literate as yourself.
I enjoy your posts and reading the resonses,
but I have to tell you, you waste your time , no one in England takes God seriously,
even for the most religious, is probably just a 5% background noise in their lives.
That is one thing that the Islamic communities in the UK had better begin to understand,we don't think much of our home grown god, and we don't give a toss for their prophet, it would be prudent for them to carry on their religion a little bit quieter,like the very large jewish comunity in my town then we will get along just fine.

Capt PPRuNe
14th Sep 2001, 14:44
OCB is outta here. I am sick of his paraphrasing, twisted preaching of absolute fundamentalist christianity. Typical of a wannabe rooftop sniper/nutter. He is not connected to aviation and so as far as I am concerned he can find a different forum for his rantings.

I would like to warn the rest of you that whilst I allow lively debate I will not tolerate outright racist talk and mass condemnation of particular secular groups. Slasher come pretty close to this but at least backs up his argument with reasoning but has to watch his step.

EVERYONE is sick to the back teeth with all this death and destruction that we have all witnessed over the last few days. Tempers are running high and it is difficult to hold back knee-jerk statements that many of us would later regret saying later when we have had time to calm down and reflect on the events.

I too can be as outraged and disgusted by some of the scenes we have witnessed such as the Palestinians rejoicing in the streets and the Iraqis broadcasting celebrations. Last night I endured a pathetic BBC Question Time with an unusually high proportion of pro Islam students and PC collumnists and Tam Diel preaching his warnings about not hurting anyone without regard for the thousands of people who have perished at the hands of mass murderers. How quickly the fanatical elements forget the reasons for this news and go back to preaching their own agendas.

On a seperate news program there was a panel including Jean Kirkpatrick and a few others including the leader of Britains Muslim Youth and I was disgusted to hear him given air time to say how he is not a British Muslim but a Muslim in Britain and any attack on bin Laden is an attack on him and all Muslims worldwide. How pathetic and infuriating.

What has been upsetting me the most is the absolute lack of mention about the basic Muslim teachings that all infidels (any non Muslim) have to eventually be converted or defeated. The koranic teachings that to become a martyr whilst killing infidels will be rewarded is not given any airing but it is the indoctrination of these teachings that is behind these suicide killers.

I am not an expert and no doubt some people more educated than me in the ways of Islam will correct me but so far I have not been convinced that their teachings are as pure as most would want us to believe. In Saudi Arabia, home of the most holy of Islamic shrines, expression of thought and other religious belief is supressed.

I believe that islam is an anti-semitic religion even though the arabs are semites too, Overall the impression I am receiving from all the reports I have seen is that the islamic states and leaders are hoping that the Americans now rethink their Middle East policy and abandon Israel. What a way to achieve their sick aims. If America even considers such a move we have all lost to the cause of the fundamentalist murderers who believe they can change our ways of life and thinking by their terrorist acts.

I agree that the majority of Muslims who live here are as sickened as the rest of us by the scenes we witnessed and there is no need for any of us to descend to the same depths as the fundamentalists who preach murder. We have to continue to show our strengths by debate and freedom of expression without incitement.

As for the populations of the Islamic countries I am a bit more sceptical. I am sure that the majority of people they are as disgusted by the events as any decent human being but there are elements in those countries that are twisted enough from constant indoctrination to feel glee at the pain of the infidels in the West. We saw a glimpse of this with the dancing in the streets of Palestinian East Jerusalem. Makes you think.

Slasher
14th Sep 2001, 18:22
Capt PPRuNe yeh ok not all islamics are bad. Just as theres good commies here in Nam and bad ones too. The ex-VC are the worst.

Theres a lot of sh!t that goes on here in the northern end of the workers paradise which youll never hear about because the commie government suppresses it before its even realised what happened. I know I get emotional about islam, and I dont know, maybe one day Ill recount the horrific results of the small-scale islamic terrorist events Ive witnessed here. I am not sorry for my contempt of this damn religion but I will try to be less vigorous in my angst in future posts.

tony draper
14th Sep 2001, 18:41
Spent some time in Hiphong in 1963 Mr S,strange place then, you could sell anything,I think I finished up a Dong millionair, we had a fine old time, good beer also, and crab good crab,well served,would have been a pretty expensive place as I recal but for the black market.
I also remember that hideious music and jabber coming out of the loudspeakers all along the bloody docks. ah, HAPPY DAYS. ;)

heloplt
14th Sep 2001, 19:22
I awoke this morning with a rousing hymn resounding in my mind...it was "Onward Christian Soldiers" !

If Islam is great,then why do they teach their children to seek death, to kill non-belivers, and that to die in the conquering of non-belivers they shall become martyrs and live in wonderful pleasures after death being showered with all the things deprived of them while alive.

If I am not mistaken here, is this not the only religion in existence that teaches killing as a way to salvation. Am I missing something here....

I am old fashioned, someday we shall all know the truth...if we guess rightly and live our life correctly...then we shall be vindicated. For you atheists and communists out there....you better hope you are right in your decision....the ramifications of being wrong are intimidating.

Until then, any religion that teaches its children hate and killing is a threat to all of us. It is a recipe for great horrors just as we have seen in the past few days! No one can defend that kind of religion or beliefs.

Nick Figaretto
14th Sep 2001, 21:16
Ignorance is the greatest threats of all. Not religion.

A NYC citizen was quoted in Norwegian newspapers yesterday: "Let's bomb Kashakstan back to the stone age. They did this."

I do not have the faintest idea where he got Kashakstan from, and it is about the stupidest statement I've ever heard. But it shows that what the United States and the Western World need now is time to think. I feel your pain, but we all have to be reasonable.

An over-reaction to the horrible happenings on the 11th, might bring us all into a never ending spiral of violence and death all over the world.

People like OCB would definitely bring us into that "graveyard spiral."

Fight Ignorance First!

Nick.

Slasher
15th Sep 2001, 07:33
Heloplt being an atheist isnt a decision. In my case its what Ive become after thorough research on almost all religions and have made sound logical conclusions. As Ive said countless times before, Id rather live life with the hard truth than a comforting fantasy. So how can I hope Im right? I believe when we push off thats the end of everything. Oblivion. There is no decision to believe that. And do religous believers hope they are right? Of course not.

Trinflight
16th Sep 2001, 09:27
Danny,

Thanks from Texas. Have you thought about chucking the Guv into the recycle bin as well?

Trinflight

I'll take the smiles anytime :D

Jackonicko
17th Sep 2001, 06:02
Danny,

I was encouraged that you booted out the fundamentalist, surprised by the harshness of your analysis of Islam, and disappointed at your apparent rejection of remedying wrongs in Palestine. I'm as sickened as you by the rejoicing over this among certain Islamic groups, of course, as I remember being sickened by nationalist jubilation at some IRA coups. But I want punishment for the guilty, not the merely misguided.

And is Israel at the moment (ignoring UN resolutions, refusing to withdraw illegal settlements, rocketing civilian flats, car-bombing politicians) really so very worthy of our support? Wouldn't encouraging Israel to reach a fair and just settlement go a very long way towards removing the spurious justification for some of this evil terrorism, and indeed towards providing lasting security for a wonderful people (with a monstrous government) who have surely seen enough hatred and death?

I'd also like to point out that your analysis of Mohammed's teachings is, IMHO (and with the greatest respect), incomplete. To simplify rather grossly, it has to be said that while Islam is intolerant of infidels (unbelievers) it is far more tolerant of other monotheistic religions (Christianity and Judaism) than those religions are about it. Christians and Jews are viewed as 'people of the book' and are respected for their beliefs - but pitied 'cos they have got it 'slightly wrong'. Jesus, for example, is a major prophet to Moslems (like John the Baptist is to Christians). It's one aspect of Islam which fills me with hope, since it provides some ground for mutual respect and toleration, which is much needed now!

And it's not killing that Islam applauds, it's dying as a martyr - a virtue similarly applauded in Christianity and in some extremist political parties, but one that's easy to misinterpret and malign. Wouldn't we all hope to have the moral strength to die for our beliefs, if required?