Nimrod MR4 to be cancelled.

[kipperman]

From the front page of the Daily Telegraph Friday 12 Dec 03.

"The Daily telegraph has learnt that the Nimrod MR4 project is to be cut, with an immediate saving of £500 million and an overall saving of £2 billion".

[A Civilian]

I had a friend at DERA working on the EW systems for this project and he told me that this was always going to happen. The whole project was riddled with flaws both system's and human that it had no chance it would ever work :suspect:

[Squadgy]

Very bad news for Woodford if it is the case - loads of jobs, and probably the airfield itself would be lost :ugh:

[BEagle]

End of the line for the Comet then...??

Hopefully there'll be some work coming on the A330 tanker and the A380 at Broughton. But that won't be much consolation.

Werrr' this 't Bungling Baron Waste o' Space's biggest and most final blunderr.....

Oop at 't werrks came fear and confusion. Seth, 't foreman, came rushing up to 't office and rushed in to see 't Bungling Baron Waste o' Space........

"Sithee, master, there's trouble at 't werrks! 't men are woooried about 't Nimrod......"

"Now then, Seth, don't thee fret so", chortled 't Baron whilst caressing the ears of Boogeroff, his favourite whippet," there's now't to worry thee se'n about. 't Nimrod'll keep thee an' I in brass for many a year yet. Mad old Maggie promised us as such an' 't airr forrce has been flying 't old Comet spin offs for more then fifty years now, tha knows."

"But master, 'twas serrposed to be 't Nimrod 2000. Now us'll be lucky to get 't booger flying afore 2004......", whined Seth.

"Now, now Seth. Don't thee fret so. 't airr forrce can't afford owt' else, so we'll joost keep 't programme tickin' over an' t' brass cooming in for a while yet. Sit thee down, have a slice of pig's bladder and testicle tart an' stop worryin'", 't Bungling Baron continued, "them boogers in Loondoon'll never suspect nowt'. He he he.....am I a clever old Baron or what?"

And he laughed long and hard, the bells on his trousers tintinabulated merrily - and the RAF waited...and waited....and waited............but perhaps 't wait werr finally too long?

[DaveyBoy]

I read that article too.

It will be interesting to see what news the next few weeks brings to Kinloss, but I'm mindful of the fact that this particular revelation comes from the same quality Defence Correspondent who the other week explained that the MR2 providing cover for GWB's visit would be in the air for "24 hours at a time".

Following on from that, in yesterday's article, he goes on to warn that chopping the Mighty Hunter would leave the RAF without a "strategic bomber"... OK, so he might have spotted somewhere that the MRA4 has been designed to carry a couple of Storm Shadows, but to me it still smacks of the conjecture and ramblings of someone who doesn't know what roles our aircraft actually perform.

As long as, while the Torygraph is confidently predicting that the only "major projects" to go will be the MRA4 and improved GBAD, the Indy is saying that cuts could only be made from Carriers and Eurofighters, I'll rest assured that fleet street doesn't actually know any more than we do.

Dave

[ACW 335]

So with the project cancelled and this large/huge/massive saving of money...whats the RAF/MOD going to do with it?? Buy back that third tranche of typhoons?!!

[Small Spinner]

I think this is a 2 + 2 = 5.
Cuts have been made in the flight test programme, but I'm confident that the aircraft will be given 6 months worth to prove itself.
If anything serious springs up in that time, the decision to carry on may have to be revisited.
Mission systems are well developed, but there are some major challenges ahead, that will only be seen once the aircraft sees live data.
It is a quantum leap in sophistication from anything bar Typhoon, the RAF has ever seen in service.

[TAC2]

funny how the US of A are planning a major reduction of their maritime fleet. Some 150 spare P3's going begging. Is this coincidence or another conspiracy theory?

[BATS]

US are reducing to 150 P3s from around 210-220, but the Multi Mission Aircraft (MMA) program (P3 replacement) will also include UAVs if my sources are right. The only little snag at the moment is the choice of platform for MMA; I believe the Boeing 737 is still the only choice. The US have stated that they do not want the P3 or another turbo prop, thus the short list is very short indeed......

The MRA 4 and indeed the MMA will be markedly more capable than the previous generations of ASW focussed maritime platforms. Granted, both will be ASW capable, but their other capabilities are far more significant.

Cancellation of the MRA 4 program would have a significant impact on both the RAF and BAEs - here's hoping it makes it into the air.....

[ORAC]

The USN has found major corrosion in the P3 fleet and, even with the planned fleet reduction, are going to have to put a large number of the aircraft through a major refurbishment programme and reduce the size of the force still further. I wouldn`t expect any decent airframes to be available.

[TC27]

Didnt the Telegraph predict that 10 regiments would be axed a few days ago?

[Beeayeate]

No mention of the Astor programme then.

[The Gorilla]

No the ASTOR fits in with the new Government Marks & Spencer speak so it will stay. But to be honest, with no direct threat to the UK or EU who needs an anti-submarine aircraft anyway??

I said it would never fly and I stand by that prediction!!

:ok:

[soddim]

If the DT is right it will be intersting to see what it does to the share price of BAE tomorrow - up I would guess since they will be the main beneficiaries.

[Down 4 Reprogram]

Gorilla – you really must try and keep up with the times. The Powers that Be saw there was no future in just completing the ASW role years ago, and so Nimrod has been evolving to carry out many tasks. Indeed, MRA4 looks very like the multi-role, ISTAR come “network enabled capability “ thing that the White Paper points to as being the way forward. Just look at what was being done during Afghanistan and GW2, as detailed in Ice Station Kilo’s very own website:

http://www.kinloss-raf.co.uk/archive.html

So any cancellation of the program won’t be because of the White Paper, but because bl**dy Waste of Space can’t get the new wonder beast flying.

Why cancel the program, and presumably have to pay wads of taxpayers cash to Waste of Space in compensation, when we only have to wait a few months for the company to finally admit it won’t work, default on the contract and have to pay us instead?

[NURSE]

D4R yep definitly the way ahead.

But MR2 will have to be replaced. Was Beoing being over optimistic at Farnborough last year with its model of if my memory serves me right a 767 maritime patrol aircraft in RAF markings?

[WE Branch Fanatic]

A small but serious threat (http://www.eastlant.nato.int/hq_info/HQ%20Mag%2002/a_serious_threat.htm)

[BEagle]

The US is advocating 'smart tanker' - the use of large platforms to enhance digital battlefield data relay beyond line of sight of ground platforms. Principally using the KC-767A.

Something which the RAF has had since I flew the first live JTIDS tanker flight in Sep 1999; the system was declared operational 2 weeks later under a UOR.

If more funding was transferred from deep black hole BWoS projects such as MRA4 to things with proven usefulness such as JTIDS-tanker, this capability could probably be developed even further.....

[Sideshow Bob]

Here's a link to the Telegraph story-

http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;$sessionid$5FYQBA43ICUIJQFIQMFSFF4AVCBQ0IV0?xml=% 2Fnews%2F2003%2F12%2F12%2Fndef12.xml
(only works if you copy and paste it into your address bar)

Small Spinner, by serious issues would you include the fact that the autopilot will not operate as specified and will have to be replaced at a great cost?

[NURSE]

but overall wouldn't a common airframe for MPA/EW/AEW and Tanker/Transport make alot of savings in support infrastructre.
so aiming at say for example 767 tanker transport then 767 MPA and finally a 767 AEW.
But of course there is the downside if the common airframe is grounded you loose all those capabilites at once.

[The Gorilla]

Down 4

Yes I know BUT none of its' new stuff has been proven yet oh, and there is the teensy matter of the fact that NO prototype has yet taken to the air!! It never will!!

When the next cash call is required it's going to be scrapped!!

:ok:

[Small Spinner]

Sideshow, I'm sure there will be a number of hiccups on the way.

Many of the decisions made along the way were with the full visibility of DPA and Qinetiq as far as I know, so the blame can be spread a little more than some might suggest.

I hope these issues will be sorted, but they will be apparent shortly after first flight (which I think will happen), so we will see then!

For the others, this aircraft (as advertised) will give this country a significant capability, that no JTIDS equipped tanker would ever do.

[BEagle]

But not in proportion to its cost, I would guess...

[Vage Rot]

Don't write the beast off yet - and don't forget that even with all the delays, BAES have still designed, built and flown (hopefully!) a brand new aircraft inside 8 years (contract award in 1996 I seem to remember). Indeed, the major delay last year was due to them pushing too much work in parallel so when one thing failed everything had to be ripped out and started again.

How long did AOC Fast Jet/Ego's little new rollerskate take to design/build and fly?? hell of a lot longer than 8 years! And it's still a fighter without a gun!!! (or a full envelope clearance!)

The ASW threat isn't gone, just the Russian bit of it!! Pakistan, Iran, Libya, China and so an and on all have a credible submarine capability. Only way for a tanker to deal with that is a ram raid on the docks and you are welcome to that one!!

Get rid of the truckies (Movers are a bunch of self important tw4ts and treat pax like sh*t) and the Tankers (except a few!) and then we could all land at some nice places for fuel en-route instead of busting a bladder with AAR!

[Pindi]

RAF News seems to know something the Daily Telegraph doesn't

(see latest edition) !!

[Yeller_Gait]

Pindi,

By chance I happened to read the RAF News item on MRA4 this morning while waiting at the barbers.

It does sound like a very expensive computer game so far, but without all the functionality and features that you come to expect from an XBox or PS2.

I will be more than a little surprised if the first flight does happen next summer, in fact I will be amazed ....

Now back to the real world

[MarkD]

What about A330 tanker/MRA Beagle?

[BEagle]

Huh?

No FSTA announcement expected before the New Year.

But A310 MRTT (yes, A310, not A330) is due to fly tomorrow:D