Low Houred Pilots

[sqk0612]

We hear a lot of talk of "low houred pilots" on these threads. When does a pilot stop being low houred- 500hrs? 100hrs? 1500hrs??

[Luke SkyToddler]

In the context of 99% of the posts on these forums - i.e. " I've got low hours and nobody wants to give me a job, waaahhh, life's so unfair" :rolleyes: then you are mostly talking about people fresh out of flying school with somewhere between 200 and 300 total hours.

Those kind of hours, of course, are the minimum necessary to get let into a multi crew environment, where you can get your hand held by a captain for a year or two while you learn your trade properly.

The JAA legislates that 700 is a sensible minimum for single pilot IFR, and most people in my opinion don't even really know how to fly a C152 properly until they've got somewhere between 500 and 1000. I believe that that's the sort of magic area hours-wise where the act of manipulating an aeroplane truly becomes a second-nature motor skill for many people.

[Pilot Pete]

I think, as Luke alludes to, it's perception. I fly 75/76 with about 1500hrs between the two of them but I (and my employer!) still consider me to be 'low hours' on type, when you are looking at around 3500hrs on type (minimum) to be considered for command.

But, in the eyes of the job market in general I would not be considered low hours due to my experience. so it's very subjective.

If you are talking Wannabe then I reckon you are still 'low hours' until you have a 'large-ish' aeroplane on your licence. It's a bit vague I know, but here is my reasoning.

If you are applying for your first airline position, how would they view your experience?

1. Jet operators

They will consider you low hours if you don't have a jet on your licence, or a heavy turbo-prop at least and especially if you have no two crew experience.

2. Turbo-prop operators

They will consider you low hours if you don't have any turbine time or two crew experience, although it's a little looser than the way jet operators consider your experience. For instance, a thousand hours single crew air taxi work will not be viewed as low hours by a turbo-prop operator, whereas it will be by a jet operator.

So if you are thinking (like I did when I was there) that 500hrs was some kind of Holy Grail and then 1000hrs the absolute pinnacle then I am afraid, if it's all piston single you are still, in reality, low hours.

It's not all doom and gloom though as you are certainly making progress away from the bottom of the heap and that is important. My advice is to take anything you can that improves your total hours, but, more importantly, take anything that improves the quality of your hours also as progress is important to employers. A friend of mine uses the principle that he needs no more than 1000hrs on any type as he heads towards what he wants to fly (big, very big infact!) and there is merit in what he thinks. He did para-dropping and got his time up to 600hrs, air-taxi up to 900hrs, heavy turbo-prop through to about 1300 and unfroze his ATPL on an Embraer. With nearly 1000hrs on the 145 he has moved on again to a 737 and no doubt will be looking again in a couple of years for the next step up.

I know that sounds like a dream to many Wannabes, but the main point to take from it is that sitting there getting 3-4000hrs instructing for instance is not doing you any favours as far as airline employment goes. You then get into the realms of not appearing ambitious enough and will be questioned as to why you chose that route, especially with an airline that would have hired you with much fewer hours. I'm not saying these pilots are writing themselves off, far from it, but they do have to have well thought out answers to the inevitable questions......

So you can see, there is no straight answer to your question. There is no 'magic number' which means you are not 'low hours' anymore. Hope this helps to put a perspective on it for you.

My advice is do anything to keep improving your total time and quality of time, especially when the job market is not at it's best for newbies and the other (fairly obvious point, but some seem to settle in to the easy life) is to move on and up as soon as you can to get where you want to be. Don't spend too long, especially if you are not a spring chicken, building single engine hours to some huge total in the belief that airlines will eventually be unable to turn you down for interview!

All the best.

PP

[PPRuNeUser0215]

Space Odyssey

300-400 TT hours is low time by any standards so even when you have 3000 hours TT including 400 hours on say a 757 or an Islander, that is low time on type.
As for Police Support requiring higher minima than the airlines, it can be true and it can be untrue.
Flying the Twin turbo prop for the Police near the South Coast of England require 1500 hours TT.
Flying for the fisheries at low level over the sea is about the same if not less (went for an interview a few years back and I barely had 1000 hours without Turbine time).
Flying in the bush (something you could consider being in a different league than the airlines and somewhat demanding), well I joined with 500 hours so there again not exactly Emirates requirements.
I think that having a "large-ish aircraft" on your licence is a load of rubbish personally !!
Well it all depends what your aspirations are and how you intend to further your career, plan for your childrens life and so on (I don't have any but who knows, stanger things have happened).
Like you say, Personally you think it is load of rubbish.

[topman999]

sqk0612,

What we must remember is that when pilots are flying for the larger carriers out there it mainly depends on hours on type as oppossed to TT. For example I know of many pilots who have recently joined several carriers on the A340 without any time on type and needed to be trained on type. These guys had high TT, but nothing on type and were given the training needed. After months of training they entered the left seat and often the guy on the right would be far less experienced regarding TT, but have lots more experience on type. Incidently, these guys found the transformation onto the A340 from the 744 as a tough change but got through in the end fine and are doing a great job with a good respected carrier. They are building the hrs and with that the experience, often relying on the young guys on the RHS with maybe only 1000 TT, but with 700HRS on Type.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

<1000hrs piston = low time scumbag

>1000hrs piston = some hours scumbag

>3000hrs piston = so why haven't you got a proper job yet?


<500hrs turbine = low time pilot

>500hrs turbine = co-pilot

>3000hrs turbine = pilot


<500hrs jet = low time sky god

>500hrs jet = sky god

>3000hrs jet = Sky Emperor


Jet <100tonnes = small willy

Jet >100tonnes = divorced


Sometimes you just can't win. Good luck,


WWW

ps we all had 1,000hrs once and thought we were it. Oh yes we did.

[MAX]

Im sure we have all flown with someone in the LH seat with >10,000hrs who still talks about 'learning something new everyday'.

Thats whats really relevant. There is a learning curve (however big or small) no matter what your experience level.

MAX:cool:

[redsnail]

You are low houred if the insurance company thinks you are.

[PPRuNeUser0215]

Well if we are only talking about Total Time then, I once met a guy with just about 30000 hours.
Which probably means that anyone with less than 10000 hours is a low time guy ;).

[Pilot Pete]

Space Odyssey

I think you`re all missing the point, forget about the airlines for a minute. We`re talking about "TOTAL TIME", it could include PPL`s !!!

I think we are all making assumptions as the original question was so vague, but if the poster was talking about PPLs then maybe the thread would (should) have posted in the Private Flying forum? I think we are talking about airlines because it was posted in 'Wannabes'

As for

Low Hours are usually viewed as newly qualified pilots (frozen ATPL with no more than 250 hours) so anything above 300 - 400 hours sounds good to me although there is no definite answer to your question !

Well, no matter what commercial operation you are talking about, be it airline, coastguard, police or whatever I guarantee you that with 300-400hrs TT, they will all view you as low hours.

I have no problem with you viewing my comments as rubbish, but you have not pointed out where they are flawed. I doubt very much that sqk0612 was talking about when do coastguard and police units consider you to be no longer 'low hours'. I stand to be corrected if he was asking that.

Regards

PP

[sqk0612]

Thanks for the replies. I was indeed referring to Commercial flying, and potential employers.

The replies from PP and WWW were along the lines of what I was thinking. However, the others give food for thought. Even at 700 hrs, a minimum of 200 of these would be on light aircraft in college, with only the final 500hrs (hopefully) being on turbine twins.

[Luke SkyToddler]

Space-odyssey :

Having just spent the last two years flying remote area air ambulance operations and having now commenced my first 'real airline' job, I can assure you that you are completely wrong.

Air ambulance / police / coastguard work may indeed demand the highest standards of flying skill, but it sure doesn't have the prestige or rewards of airline or corporate jet work. There are indeed a handful of crusty old retirees involved in the business but the vast majority of the pilots have been younger folk and have treated it as a stepping stone to bigger and better things.

Working for the company that you profess to work for, you should be well aware of that!

[PPRuNeUser0215]

Air Taxi - Airlines - Coastguard/Police Normak career progression ?

Really ?

:D :D :D

Now saying that once you are finsihed with the airlines at age 60 (in Europe due to French/Italian restrictrions) you chose to finish your career in a non commercial environement is one thing.
Saying that it is the normaj progression, I doubt it.

A nice way to stick a few more years in but as far as the rest is concerned I am not sure I follow you.

Where do you get your ideas from ? (Genuine question I assure you)

Cheers