Emirates dec...whites only?

[jonlei]

Just spoke to a couple of guys who had the " white honour " of being called up for the EK dec interview. Both were told that they were not Ek material and were told to leave after 3 days! This despite one of them was a Senior Flight Instructor on the A340-300 (SQ-local chinese) with credible qualifications, not to mention being type rated. No reason was given.

The other guy was in the A330 with MH for the last 7 years and was an instructor pilot as well. I personally know both of them and they have a clean and credible past records.

During their interview, out of the 8 guys called during their session, only three of our " Northern Hemisphere" friends were asked to stay for the remaining 2 days. The other 5, 4 south asians and an african were told they were not successful. And none of those selected were type rated on any EK a/c! One has about 14000 hrs, mostly being from single engined piston, twin turbo prop and exec-jet command. The other guy had been out of the job for 36 months and has 737 command. Finally, our Canadian friend, jobless for the last 1 year has been around the world in a bizz jet!

What a shame if it is true!! Looks like the brits are safe guarding their positions by only taking their colour rated, but not type rated exellent pilots from Asia or Africa.

Anyone who share the same plight or care to comment???

[Payscale]

YOU are just about the most sorry XXX writing on this forum. Probably a teenager wannabe, trying to ignite a racial issue. Not gonna work here dude

EK has pilots from just about every country with an airplane....

Now run up to your room and make your homework. You are GROUNDED:} :} :}

[jonlei]

Thks for your comments.

But what CRM are we talking about? Are we saying that SQ has no CRM culture? Is the selection criteria solely based on CRM? Will this score more marks than proper relevent experience and flying skills and attitude? There is no way an airliner in any part of the world flies today with no CRM being practised, either direcly or indirectly.

Is it payback time for the expats who were previously "not so nicely" treated in SQ? I think that CRM knowledge can be imparted at any stage of one's flying career providing the pilots attitude is right.

Anyway EK pilots demonstrated thier superior CRM skills recently by hovering over Chennai for more than 30 minutes with a cargo fire warning whilst talking to maintenance on whether the warning was authentic. ;)

[ernestkgann]

Bro, from what you've written I believe the recruiting process has worked.

[Payscale]

Amen...........

[Gordo]

Whoa nelly!!!...,,

jonlie, seems like there is one huuuuuge chip on your shoulder.

just to second what payscale said, there are over 40 different nationalities in EK white brown black pink purple......

have first hand knowledge of what some (not all) of the senior ip's are like in your part of the world (i'm still there though not for long :) )and they would probably fail the selection process for a night watchman let alone any credible airline.

Time to grow up and do something about that inferiority complex of yours.

(CRM in SQ?, HHMMMMM...)

[Caviar4me]

Jonlei I must agree with you. Yes there might be some asians there but they are nobody in the airline. Not one instructor or management position. All controled by WHITES and their proxies. What a shame the Arabs don't see this, that they are being colonize all over again. The so call DEC Whites have only one asset that is the buddy system with their WHITE friends at EK.

[naughty but nice]

Caviar for me..it is obvious from your post that you are very Anti- white...just drop the whole race thing..its boring..:ok:

[K9]

Are these guys for real?

Please tell me they dont actually occupy the skies with us....please!

EK may be many things but it has an excellent track record regarding racial issues

There are some seriously twisted issues with these guys! Suffice to say they wont get past the psyco interview with EK

What worries me is perhaps they fly jets with all this angst as well...:suspect: :uhoh:

[330 Man]

Jonlei

Just for the record, EK has hired pilots from over 53 countries, and the Airbus Chief Pilot is not White. In my 25 years in aviation it has been my experience that the only people who pull the race card out of their hat are the ones who cannot fly, cannot get along with anyone out of their own race, (no matter what that race is) cannot accept the fact that they may have a problem getting along, and cannot understand why they are not getting hired! The assessment process at EK is 75-80% based on how well you can get along with the pilots hired from the 52 countries other than yours. As a former instructor with nearly 15000 hours in jets I very strongly believe: "You can take a bad pilot with a good attitude and have something to work with. But if you try to take a good pilot with a bad attitude, you will have nothing but trouble for yourself and your airline". Obviously, the selection process works.

You need to look inside and determine why you are not getting hired, and fix the problem. But to blame it on the race card is unfair, unjust, and unacceptable to most of us in this profession who care.

Grow up and look in the mirror. You just might not like what you see!

Oh and by the way: SQ are the masters at negative reinforcement.

[Caviar4me]

Fish,
You think we are stupid and naive, welll the locals at EK don't think so. Maybe that's why there was a minor reshuffle in the recriuting office. There is more to come. Maybe the Sheikh will have a look at the selection process. Numbers never lie. CRM is practise by all major airlines and most of them select candidates on merits. EK??????

[Reverend Doctor Doug]

Caviar4me

It is no secret that the Sheikh and the government would like to see more locals/non white people in the company. They spend a lot of money trying to entice Emiratis into all types of fields, and aviation is one of them. Quite rightly too as it is their country and their airline. In the fullness of time i would expect that all major management positions will be held by locals, which is as it should be. Whether that is the best thing for the airline or not is irrelevent, it is their train set.

There is one thing he can't afford to have though, and that is a smoking hole in the ground. To hire pilots into this company, based primarily on race will undoubtedly increase the risk of that happening. So you can be safely assured that he is unlikely to interfere with recruiting other than to continue to encourage locals to apply. Bearing in mind that they go through a similar selection process to everyone else.

The reason we recruit as we do, is because the ability to get along with most people is a higher priority than having huge amounts of hours. And as it happens, we have managed to draw these people from over 50 different nationalities. You can draw your own conclusions from that as to why there is a higher failure rate amongst people from your part of the world.

Cop U Later

The Rev

[Croozin]

Can’t help but think that the two Malaysian posters on this site have seen what their recently retired PM got away with for years on the world stage in blaming ‘whites’ for every problem he and his cronies ever had and they’ve made the mistake of thinking such tosh will wash here.

The good Doctor M. could get away with the rubbish he peddled in the UN and the New Straits Times because he was dealing with diplomats and small ‘l’ liberals who still seem to think ‘allowances’ have to be made for the ‘poor, oppressed people’ of ex-colonies who are still ‘suffering’ – 50 *** years after most of their countries achieved or were granted independence – from the ‘depredations’ which continue to be ‘inflicted’ upon their countries by the ‘neo-colonists’ (give me strength – the biggest depredations inflicted upon such countries post-independence are usually done so by the native born leadership of said countries.).

EK has its faults, but racial discrimination within the expatriate pilot ranks is definitely not one of them (although everyone hates the Brits. Just joking). If, as an expat pilot, you can jump through the hoops the company sets for all applicants for a particular job, before or after you are employed, you are employed or promoted whatever your skin colour or accent is.

If the posters who ‘know’ how racist and ‘white-dominated’ EK is, why in the world do they want join a company where they ‘know’ they’ll be so unfairly treated because of the colour of their skin? Seems to me someone’s failed Logic 101.


– or perhaps CRM 101.

[Caviar4me]

Guys you all assume I'm asian. My Ass is just as WHITE as yours.
I'm an expat with a major airline in Asia. Living in this country for the last 9 years. Love it and so does my family. I know one of the Guys that went for the DEC interview at EK. He was my FO and now Instructor on another fleet. His qualification is second to none. And what he told me about the other guys background well I find this puzzling, he was not selected. Some of the comments from my WHITE Brothers are disturbing, but then again it shows their true character. Candidates are selected on mainly how well they get along with others. Hey maybe I should apply with EK. Only narrowbody time but what the hell, it is insignificant. I get along well with others even Asians. But then again moving to the Sandpit and the attitude some pilots has at EK I much better of here. Cheers I going to the pub with my Asians friends. Y'all take care now.

[Zomp]

Well, it took me 5 years to get an interview after my first application, I had about 6000 hours widebody time.
Australians and english got interviews with much less experience than that because of their passports, but that has all changed the last couple of years, now anybody with a good experience can get an interview.
I respect the recruiting team, the are from many different countries and they do a great job ( they only screwed up when they hired me).
Just heard the boss of recruiting, a POM, has resigned because he was told by TCK to lower the standards, he showed us that he has a backbone and I respect him for that, hope he doesn't give up training, we would all miss him.

The management of EK sucks and doesn't give a shi* about their pilots, but I can tell you the pilots are great to work with and I enjoyed the righthand seat with all these different cultures in the flightdeck.

[Loc-out]

jonlei

Just a thought. Maybe the answer is in the handshake.

[ferris]

Did everyone else miss this?I know one of the Guys that went for the DEC interview at EK. He was my FO So your FO didn't get an interview for Direct Entry Command? Or are you saying you flew with this guy some time ago, and he has now advanced to have the command requirement? Either way, how do you know what he is like as a Captain?

You also claim to live in Malaysia, yet are not Malaysian, and are pointing the finger at others over perceived racism? Check your own backyard, where racism is institutionalised. Obviously you're not Chinese Malaysian, are you?

[max AB]

I think you two guys need to stand nude in the room of mirrors and take a long look at yourselves...

[purr]

jonlei,
I stand by you something is not right there and the minute somebody protests a whole lot of people pounce on him to shut him up . Do you think the tones were civil . If some of them wanted a job where you are now how do you think their tones would have been to you.Some thing better I think.CRM.

:ouch:

[squak7700]

Another CX story here

[phat boy]

On a slightly different note, maybe jonlei has some thoughts on why airlines like Air China, Korean etc have a requirement for expat DECs in the first place? 777 capts in SQ, etc...

Do you really want an answer to your probing jonlei?

[Desert Nomad]

So Caviar, you are white! It's not really a great surprise that you didn't get much further than you did due to the quality of your written English.

Perhaps a litte more time and thought would have served you well. :ok:

[Flame Out]

The poor guy is getting gang raped for raising a possible valid issue here. Heard of many rumors (yes, no "u") in regards to EK's hiring practice. Not the first time I heard anything like this either. Interesting. Just watching from the sideline folks, not going there, already have a nice job, ooh, and the dreaded blue passport.

:E

[Dan6]

I wonder EK called KKK :hmm:

[doubleu-anker]

Bagshaw Crusher

Good post.

Just hope you are not saying EK and its pilots have the "highest standards of the 21st century Flight deck?"

[wilco77]

jonlei..

i tottally agree with u budy. Whats happening in Emraites is exactly what happened in Cathay. The Brits secured themselves there, bringing in the aussies,kiwis etc.
Guys in this forum are 90% white and not being an asian dont see and dont have to go through the same problem asians, africans for that matter any coloured person face to get an aviation job outside their country of origin..
It is very easy for the rest to say that we are mad, simply racist or someone who wants to intice an argument, but thats is not true.
Simple fact is the white man got it good and thats whats happening in emirates. yes emirates has many races but its changeing. when i am up in the air and i hear an emirates call sign 95% of the time its a brit,aussie,kiwi,canadian acsent.

so guys accept the truth an when one day you are up there in the hiring comittee, dont forget give the best man the chance and dont look at colour please

Cheers

Wilco77

[Croozin]

So let me get this straight, Wilco… Emirates is racist and unfair, but you’d still like a job there. Have I got it right?

I have rarely read a bigger load of cobblers in my life than what’s been alleged by jonlei and Wilco77 on this thread. EK has just about the most UNracist employment policy I’ve seen in my life. It has interviewed many and accepted a few pilots from just about every race AND creed (including the creed you might expect an Arab airline not to employ). Many have missed out at differing stages of the Emirates interview process for many and varied reasons, but race is certainly not one of them. One look at the EK pilot group would prove that to be true.

[bus canuck]

Thanks Croozin,

I've really had it with this slanderous thread. In fact I really think that it should be 'locked'.

It's fine to criticize EK, but racism is just ridiculous. Even a tertiary review of management reveals obvious international diversity.

Honestly, this is where internet posters should be held accountable for their libelous public remarks. To call someone, even a company, "racist" is an ugly slur and must not be taken lightly.

[Desert Nomad]

Glad to see the last two posts are getting the message across. EK is probably the most culturally diverse organisation I've ever come across. I believe there are over 60 (?) nationalities working for the group now. There are pockets of the group where some nationalities are there in greater numbers but that's just the way it goes sometimes. Management is very varied in nationality and rightly so they are encouraging more and more Nationals to seek senior positions, perhaps more exposure for them globally would be advantageous. That's a recruitment decision and not one for me to make.

How anyone can say EK is whites only has obviously never been to an EK office anywhere in the world or flown on an EK aircraft.

Get a life guys and if you can't make the grade go else where that may want you.

[loungelizard]

Here here, anyone just has to look at EK briefing office ( now the TBF is yet another story in itself ) at 2am or 6am and see the diverse amount of "COLOURS". Black, grey, red, oh that "ugly" white colour, yellow, blackish/whiteish. Sorry there's that WHITE word again that some dont like.

Oh goodness, a family member has just walked in and their bloody WHITE. How on earth has this happened. !!!!

[Crazycanuk]

Pretty soon a white guy is going to say he never got hired because of affirmative action. For those who are blaming their lifes shortfalls on the color of their skin I say get a life and if you don't get the job then try try again.

crazy

[410]

Thought I’d put the allegation that started this thread to the test in the simplest way that came to mind – by trolling back through my log book for the last month or two to see what the nationalities were of the FOs I flew with.

Here’s the result of my ‘straw poll’ (ohmigosh! Is ‘straw’ a Politically Correct colour, or is it a shade too white for some?)

Australian
Kiwi
Malaysian
English
Austrian
Indian
Australian
UAE National
UAE National
Scot (he shoot me if I said ‘English’)
UAE National
English
Kiwi
UAE National
UAE National
UAE National
Italian
Swiss
Irish
Austrian
Swede
South African
Jamaican
Brazilian
Norwegian
South African (who, as Croozin mentions above, is quite open about being Jewish.)
Samoan

What’s of particular interest as I troll through those names is how many of them have got their commands in the last few months, some of them still in their early or mid thirties.

If I went back a little further, I could add Papua New Guinean, Zimbabwean, Namibian, Greek, Jugoslav (take your pick of Serbian, Croatian or Bosnian), Chinese, Nepalese, Algerian, Moroccan, Egyptian, Jordanian, Turkish, Canadian, American, Kenyan and Czech. We even had some Afghans in the early days. There are others with near unpronounceable names whose nationality I can only guess at.

On other threads here you’ll see that all is not currently sweetness and light at EK. However, for all the faults EK management may or may not have, it cannot be said that they in any way shape or form discriminate over the colour of the skin when it comes to employing pilots or other staff. In fact, people in the recruiting team inform me that they are under instruction to go to some pains to ensure they get as wide a spread of nationalities as they can, which is to the detriment of ‘white’ applicants, who, thanks to the parlous state of the Industry in Australasia and Canada, make up the majority of applicants by far.

If you didn’t make it through all the hoops in the EK recruitment circus, you were found to be unsuitable in some department or other, be it experience, personality or motor/flight management skills (in the sim). That’s not to say you are necessarily inferior to those who are successful, only that you do fit the profile EK has chosen to insist on for their pilots. However, I can assure you with absolute certainly that the colour of your skin had absolutely no bearing on your success or failure.

I’m making a wild surmise here, but it has to be said in closing that EK probably would discriminate against an applicant who turned up with an Israeli passport – but as has been mentioned above, there are a number of Jewish pilots in the company who hold other passports, and I’m not aware of them suffering any discrimination in day to day life or in promotion. EK also hasn’t employed any female expat pilots (despite having had some very high standard female applicants), which is a pity. (They did have a female UAE National enter the cadet scheme around ten years ago, but she did not complete the course.) I’ve heard of a number of reasons why they’ve decided not to employ females, none of which make any sense to me. But as has been said on other threads, it’s their train set…

[AIRWAY]

410,

Great post :ok:

Shame i don´t see a Portuguese there, could it be discrimination against the Portuguese pilots :confused: now im only joking :}

Racism i don´t think so. The failure of some, is the success of others.

[NIGHTTRAMP]

Well folks I think the point has been made. This topic has become an Emirates promotion sight.

Time to move on. If they havn't worked it out by now they never will.

NT:zzz:

[Desert Nomad]

An EK promotion site is probably not a bad thing at present given the amount of slagging off it has received on this forum over recent weeks. For all of its faults there are also good sides to be looked at.

[AutoAbort]

Just back from our local street new year celebration. Couldn't be in a better company of friends and colleuges! Happy new year to you all!

[Jim Morehead]

410
Does EK hire pilots from Key West????

Happy New Year

[typhoonpilot]

Is Homestead close enough Jim ?

Typhoonpilot

[Bubbette]

No Israelis? (I'm joking, folks. . . kind of. . .)

[Dumpvalve]

Bubbette, please give over, you are beginning to sound like a stuck record, surely there are other topics of conversation you can contribute towards? Try, you might find it will broaden your horizon and maybe people will start taking you seriously.

Happy New Year all, may 2004 be very good to all of you, including you Bubette.

Couldn't agree more with you AutoAbort - there are a lot of really good people here, people that I feel privelliged to call friends. (excluding management of course( :* )


Regards,
Dumps

[Bubbette]

Geez, I really was joking!

[Dumpvalve]

If you were joking Bubette - then I apologise, but one just has to read all your previous threads to know that you don't joke about things like this. In fact if I remember correctly, in one of your previous threads you mentioned that the UAE was one of the Arab countries that was at War with Israel.

Regards,
Dumps

[albatross2004]

Interesting reading and insight into the EMIRATES' mindset.

If you care to comment on a similar topic please do visit:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=127104

Happy landings.

[Dogbox]

Can anyone confirm if it's still 'white' MALES only?

[Loopy]

My dear albatross2004

Saw the recent hiring statistic. Have a look at Canada analyst and data. What do you expect from a third world country (company in this case) run by the same bunch of people?

http://www.chrc-ccdp.ca/publications/annual_report_2003_rapport_annuel/Page1a-en.asp


Discrimination on the grounds of national or ethnic origin, race or colour accounted for 26% of all signed complaints, up from 19% the previous year, but on a par with the 24% received in 2001. Data from the Commission’s employment equity audits also show that federal employers are meeting only 24% of the hiring and promotion goals they have set for visible minorities. Environics polling has shown that more than half the population believes that discrimination against non-whites is a problem in Canada. The Commission’s complaints and employment equity data bear this out.

[capt wan win lo]

it is my utmost belief that some form of racism or at the least a hint of it is healthy competition.it singles out the pink from the yellow ,to the brown,to the black.Lets be honest about it,it does exist and are we pretending that it is not out there..we all should strive to find ways and means to harness this problem and live and let live...lest we forget..!

[albatross2004]

Loopy

Thanks for sharing similar information. Unfortunately the site is not opening, maybe you ought to recheck and repost the address.

[albatross2004]

Loopy

Thanks for correcting the URL in your post.

Interesting reading.