White - Red STROBE LIGHTS and Anti-Col Lights

[Head Turner]

Helicopter safety is paramount and if all helicopters were fitted with White and Red Strobe lights (white on when away from persons, ie. red on when in the vacinity of people) as the standard rather than the dismal red anti-col lights the see and be seen would be very much enhanced.
From investigation it would seem that there are 'Authorities' around the world which do not allow white strobe lights to be fitted at all.

Do you have white/red strobes fitted?
If not why not?
Or do you use your landing light to enhance being seen?

[RDRickster]

I use landing lights quite often... a few miles out from airports until I'm in the pattern, whenever I hear "no contact," whenever I call "no contact" because I don't have visual with last reported position of other aircraft, whenever I'm on a helicopter route and I know another helicopter is coming opposite direction on the same route (even though we call altitudes and usually each aircraft is on the RIGHT side of the route - usually follows a road), whenver departing airfields while traffic is inbound (I rarely use the flight strip), whenever departing a confined area, etc. When in doubt... whip it out!

[engineoff]

This brings up the valid point not just about the aircraft but the pilots too... I notice in the UK that most pilots don't seem to bother with position lights in the day (even when conditions are poor) , don't use the landing light at all, and often even if white strobes are fitted don't bother using them either!
My personal preferance is to always have the position lights on, white flashers if fitted when airborne, and landing light on when coming into land or if ATC pass possible conflicting traffic info... Can never have too many lights!

[belly tank]

On our 206 we have two red strobes, one on the tail fin, one on the belly we also have two white strobes on the horizontal stabs and i always use my nav lights.

Im in the opinion of Rickster, i will always use my landing light when approaching an ala, in reduced visibility situation where there is known traffic.

especially now here in OZ where we have a new airspace system which basically means there is no chatter between Vfr on area freq there has been a great emphasis put on seen and be seen.

[oxi]

If ya got em, use em. But I minimise the landing light theory as they tend to burn out quickily.

I don't understand pilots that don't use any strobe white or red, in my opinion the only time they should be off (subject to one's personal prefference is at night whilst taxing, and at night in cloud.

Having said that I like to leave them on for night ops as they alert you when your in cloud. 'And the ice can follow quickily afterwards'.

If I'm operating in any airport enviroment I will operate all lights avaiable, 1st battery on with the tail fin red strobe and 2nd once the gene is on so are all the strobes and position lights.....not the landing lights. As I said above minimal use of these, sava'em for when you need'em.

Shocking watching a pilot sitting in their helo with landing lights blaring away. All unawares of whats happening, whilst doing pre-start and t/o checks.

Position lights don't do much during a clear and sunny day, but if catches someone attenchion then fantastic.

I think all oft the above is very important if operating in a nosy enviroment, such as around other helicopters and aircraft with apu's running,

[B Sousa]

OXI mentions strobes in clouds which brings up something called "Flicker Vertigo".....Look that one up its interesting. I have seen it during IFR approaches in soup at night in a UH-1. White Strobes off at night in the clouds for sure....

[oxi]

I agree with B Sousa, but I'll turn them off if I'm in solid cloud and usually always if conducting an approach. I find they do help when you are in a very dark night enviroment, but yes you must be aware of the strobe effect and vertigo.

[SASless]

At my place of work, we turn off the Strobes at night, sometimes even turn off the red rotating beacon, and will consider even turning off the nav lights. Landing lights are an absolute no-no. We have absolutely no trouble seeing other air traffic....actually we can see way too many ...too far away.....almost creates a distraction. We also turn off the instrument and console lights too.....

[magbreak]

We have red strobes on the belly and tail and white strobes next to the nav lights.

Generally all are on day and night. I work on the "see and be seen" principle.

The landing light goes on when we're on shore and in an area of possible/ known traffic.

The white strobes go off in cloud, but if the other aircraft is close enough to see the strobes in cloud he's too close anyway!!

[B Sousa]

Sasless, is there a message in there somewhere.....ha ha

[PPRUNE FAN#1]

Let's define our terms. An "anti-collision light" may be either a rotating beacon, pulsing light (think older Cessna), or a strobe, depending on which the manufacturer chose when he certified the aircraft. In the case of the civilian Bell 206, the anti-collision light is a strobe on top of the vertical fin.

Back in the 1970's, I did a study of auxiliary strobe light systems because the 206's we were operating in a very high-traffic area only had that dinky little vertical fin strobe. I discovered that putting a red lens over a white strobe light decreases its effective brightness by about 75%. Obviously, white is the way to go, which is why nobody offers red auxiliary strobes anymore. We went with the combination strobe/position light units mounted on the ends of the horizontal stab.

Whelen even came up with a half-red/half-white cap for the anti-collision light on the 206 (and other a/c that used a similar unit). Only God knows how many thousands of aircraft ended up with those new and improved lens covers over the years.

Until the FAA finally got around to noticing...§27.1401 Anticollision light system.
(a) General. If certification for night operation is requested, the rotorcraft must have an anticollision light system that (snip) --
(d) Color. Each anticollision light must be aviation red and must meet the applicable requirements of § 27.1397. Oops! This explains why, in the mid-1990's, the FAA began insisting that all of those half-red/half-white lens covers be removed and the "standard" all-red covers be re-installed. I thought it was a giant step backward at the time, and still do to this day.

You may put as many white extra strobes on your aircraft as you like, as long as the certified anti-collision light is red.

It's always amusing to me to see helicopter pilots start up their ships at night on dark ramps with either no lights at all showing or just the anti-collision light (strobe). Don't they know the rules? U.S. FAR part-91 requires position lights anytime you operate an aircraft at night. (And for some reason, the FAA requires that if your a/c is equipped with an anti-collision light system, it must be on at all times, day or night. Go figure.)

I like lights. I particularly like having a "headlight" burning when I approach busy terminals. Ideally, the helicopter should have a forward-facing "taxi" light that can be used as a recognition light, and a downward-pointing landing light which should only be used at night, when landing.

[SASless]

Yes Bert, there is a message....I fly one of those legendary "Black" helicopters...dark gray actually with black belly and trim. In our small piece of turf, we wish not to be seen at times but we do retain the ability to see others. On NVG's....other aircraft cockpit lights are easy enough to see, position lights really stand out....and we can see strobes from maybe 200 miles away. On a clear night, we can watch the airliners lining up for two major airports in two other states. It makes for quite a show.

When in "normal" situations we too use all of our lights to include the landing lights for recognition purposes. Our aircraft is equipped with white strobes, red anti-collision lights, and nav lights. In a pinch, we could also turn on the Nightsun and shine a wee 30 million candlepower white light towards someone. You would have to be an OLOG management type not to see that kind of light. :ok:

[Gomer Pylot]

I keep the landing light or searchlight on all the time, from takeoff to landing, in the daytime. I want people to see me coming. At night, I turn it off when I'm outside the traffic pattern or away from most potential traffic, because it hurts my night vision. I keep all the strobes that are installed on all the time, unless I'm in clouds. I want everyone in the sky to see me, I don't want to sneak up on anyone. If the landing light burns out, my employer has plenty of money to buy more. Better to buy a landing light than a new helicopter and pilots, and lights are the best things available for preventing collisions.

In a past life, I flew formation flights and landings with no outside lights at all, using the instrument lights of the ship I was flying on to maintain position, and landing in formation with no lights anywhere, other than one handheld strobe the pathfinder used to mark the landing area for the lead ship. I still can't believe I was once so young and stupid.:ooh:

Oh, and PF1, some helicopters can't be started with the nav lights on. On the S76, they don't work until you have at least one engine running. Don't blame me, I didn't design the electrical system on the thing.

[ShyTorque]

I think the UK also still requires an anti collision light for helicopters to be red. As far as I know, navigation lights are only mandatory by night here, they are all but useles by day anyway.

I try to use my own good judgement as to which lights should be on, the brighter the better in most circumstances.

A good few years ago the RAF began to fit selectable combined red/white strobe anti-colls to Puma aircraft, replacing the older filament type. I flew the first aircraft fitted with one back to UK from Germany. On arrival at Manston, ATC told me to switch the red strobe off whilst taxying, as it was too bright in their opinion, even by day! I explained that it was either that or the even brighter white one, that's all we had.

We used to use the white mode away from the circuit, as it was far brighter, red was selected with the pre-landing checks. We liked to use the searchlight at low level as it reduced the chances of a birdstrike.

The HISLs on the a/c I fly these days are so bright they light up the ground by night from 2000ft, you could probably take photos by them! They aren't supposed to be used at night or IMC as the reflections into the aircraft are disorientating to the crew and possibly make some pax fall to the floor, twitch and pee their pants.

[gnz]

The JAR' regulation are:

JAR-OPS 3.640 - Helicopter operating lights
Date: February 1, 1999

An operator shall not operate a helicopter unless it is equipped with:

(a) For flight by day:

(1) Anti-collision light system;

(2) Lighting supplied from the helicopter's electrical system to provide adequate illumination for all instruments and equipment essential to the safe operation of the helicopter;

(3) Lighting supplied from the helicopter's electrical system to provide illumination in all passenger compartments; and

(4) An electric torch for each required crew member readily accessible to crew members when seated at their designated station.

(b) For flight by night, in addition to equipment specified in paragraph (a) above:

(1) Navigation/position lights; and

(2) Two landing lights of which at least one is adjustable in flight so as to illuminate the ground in front of and below the helicopter and the ground on either side of the helicopter; and

(3) Lights to conform with the International regulations for preventing collisions at sea if the helicopter is amphibious.

[SASless]

GNZ....does that mean the S-61 with its amphibious boat hull...and the CH-47 Chinook being certified for amphibious operations....that they must have different lights in addition to those required for mere aerial navigation? Do they have to display other signals and flags if they shut down upon the water?

What would those lights and signals be I wonder?

[Thomas coupling]

Why don't pilots keep their landing lights on ALL THE TIME:confused:

Why keep them off with the associated risk of being less conspicuous? especially if you aren't paying for the odd filament now and again??

I fly with all lights ON during the day, reds at night....

[And no, I'm not one of those posers who drives everywhere with fog lights glaring either :8 ]

[Mars]

GNZ:

You are quoting from an out of date JAR-OPS 3: Amendment 2 at 01.01.02 modified this text so that only (a)(1) anti-collision light was required by day, other elements are now required at night only.

[The Nr Fairy]

And while we're on the subject of lights, why can't R22s have replaceable bulbs, rather than a complete sealed unit which needs to be replaced ?

[pa42]

50 years flying and I have yet to credit first-detection of another aircraft in daytime to its strobe light(s). My vision checks OK during physicals; but nonetheless, I consistently spot other aircraft as micro-dark-objects against the background rather than as flashing strobes. Later the strobes become visible.

I know I'm abnormal in several other regards (most of them secret, but all those women are lying), but does anybody else find daytime strobes irrelevant?

Landing lights are a completely different thing. THEY really stand out. Especially the pulse-lite system.

But only if the attacking aircraft happens to be pointed at your face. Which is, of course, when you most need to see them; but there are numerous cases of midair collisions occurring when pilots were looking THE WRONG WAY trying to spot called traffic indistinguishable from the side, and got blindsided by the other traffic coming from where they weren't looking.

SO: once the FAA catches on to the new opportunity to make headlines promoting safety, I predict we'll be outfitting all newly certified aircraft (if not the entire fleet) with incandescent spotlights/floods POINTING IN ALL DIRECTIONS. Four should do it, maybe six? And, if they spec them for lower intensity/longer filament life, they will probably be required ON at all times during the day. Nighttime? What's your guess?

Remember, you saw it on PPRUNE first!

By the way, does anybody else find that other aircraft are MORE visible (against a gray featureless background) during restricted visibility (1-3 miles), and become extremely difficult to spot in severe clear? I can't quite understand why everybody talks about greater collision risk during restricted visibility. Missing something?

[Head Turner]

If by having my driving/dipped headlights on all the time means I'm a poser then I'm a helicopter poser as well.

I believe it is far the most important thing to use every aid available to increase the chance of being seen.

I like so many of you will put on the landing lights if there are reported to be others nearby which I havent seen. I know that any pilot looking into the sun will have difficulty seeing a northbound aircraft, so on go the front landing lights.

What I was really asking was:-

1. Do you agree that white stobes are the most effective warning light?

2. Do you agree that white strobe lights used in dispersals would damage the eyesight of marshallers and engineers and that a switchable strobe to 'red' would be an adequate warning light?

3. Do you agree that nav lights are useless during the day and of only of benefit at night, in flight and for marking parked helicopters?

4. Do you agree that landing lights should be used at pilots discretion, but when approaching landing sites/airports should be used to aid other aircraft and air traffic controlles.

5. Do you agree that red rotating beacons/ anti col lights are ineffective during daylight?

Thank you.

[RDRickster]

1) At night, yes. In the day, I dont' know.

2) Maybe, I don't know.

3) Yes.

4) Yes.

5) Yes. That said, sometimes you can see them (clouds rolling in and you have a grey background against traffic).

[Thomas coupling]

Landing lamps ON should be as second nature as raising the collective to lift off. NO EXCUSES. Why wait until you are 'in a high traffic density area' ???? What is the point?

Most readers on this forum don't own their own helicopters so bloody well use them, especially if you're anywhere near me :confused:

If it is rotatable, point that one aft and your other (taxi light) fwd. If you have the option obviously. Who cares that you fly everywhere with headlights blazing?

L Lamp and taxi lamp: 8/10
Nav lts: waste of time (day). 1/10
Strobes: 5/10.
Conspicuity colours 4/10
HISL: 4/10
TCAS: 8/10

Altogether: about 7/10 ish, I would say

[PPRUNE FAN#1]

Gomer Pylut:Oh, and PF1, some helicopters can't be started with the nav lights on. On the S76, they don't work until you have at least one engine running. Don't blame me, I didn't design the electrical system on the thing.Really! How do you check them on preflight to make sure they're all working? A very strange set-up if you ask me! Is that correct? Calling Dr. Nick!

No matter. The hazard that helicopters pose is when their rotors are turning. As long as you can get those POS lights on before you release the rotor brake, it's all good. I think that's what the FAA intended anyway.

Thomas coupling indignantly asks:Why don't pilots keep their landing lights on ALL THE TIME?Well...to keep from having them burn out when you really need them? Like when landing at night perhaps?

Or maybe because the landing light electrical circuits were not designed to be used continuously, as the mechs have told me about the Bell 206? Mechs who were, by the by, pissed at having to replace burnt wiring in the nose from pilots who left the landing lights on all the time...

I used to own a personal airplane with two "landing" lights. I kept one on nearly all the time. Then I sold that plane and bought one with only a single landing light. My home aerodrome is a private field with poorly-maintained runway lights; a black hole at night. I have had the distinct displeasure of arriving at night, turning the landing light on and having it go Pop! and then having to land with no light. Greaaaaaaaat.

Head Turner asked:
1. Do you agree that white stobes are the most effective warning light? This should be obvious, yes.

2. Do you agree that white strobe lights used in dispersals would damage the eyesight of marshallers and engineers and that a switchable strobe to 'red' would be an adequate warning light? I thought strobes were not to be used on the ground? One red anti-collision light/strobe ain't gonna blind anybody.

3. Do you agree that nav lights are useless during the day and of only of benefit at night, in flight and for marking parked helicopters? Absolutely true.

4. Do you agree that landing lights should be used at pilots discretion, but when approaching landing sites/airports should be used to aid other aircraft and air traffic controlles. Agreed, unless the a/c is equipped with other recognition-type landing lights that are designed to be left on all the time.

5. Do you agree that red rotating beacons/ anti col lights are ineffective during daylight? Anyone who thinks differently is probably hallucinating.

[Thomas coupling]

Prude fart No:94:

Unless the FLM states there is a restriction on the use of a landing light (a la 355), then no excuse NOT to use it.

You shouldn't be flying at night to a site where your landing strip lights are poorly maintained...whats the matter with you can't you afford to maintain them properly?

To be of the opinion that leaving your LL off all day long in the event you will need it for a once in a blue moon night landing..speaks realms about you, doesn't it?

Stick to waffling..its much more illuminating:yuk:

[PPRUNE FAN#1]

Thomas, it's nice to see that your state of mental retardation continues undiminished. It is unbelieveable to me that someone could be as (intentionally?) obtuse as you, but your very existence proves otherwise, much to my dismay.Unless the FLM states there is a restriction on the use of a landing light (a la 355), then no excuse NOT to use it.Tell that to the mechs who've griped to me about burnt wiring in the 206 landing light circuit over the years. You shouldn't be flying at night to a site where your landing strip lights are poorly maintained...whats the matter with you can't you afford to maintain them properly?I don't know; you'd have to ask the airport owner, which is not me. I just keep my plane there. And Thomas, if you were a pilot you'd know that in aviation some things are beyond our control and we sometimes take what we can get. I could keep my plane at the bigger public airport with better runway lighting, but it is nearly an hour away from the house whereas the home field is less than five minutes away.To be of the opinion that leaving your LL off all day long in the event you will need it for a once in a blue moon night landing..speaks realms about you, doesn't it? Yes. It says that I have my priorities straight. I guess if you believe that "most" pilots only fly during the day, then your philosophy would make sense. But if you were a pilot you'd know that many of us fly at night a lot, especially in these winter months in the northern hemisphere, when days are depressingly short. I dearly wish my night ops were "once in a blue moon." I dearly wish I again owned a plane with more than one landing light. But I don't. And to drive around all day with my headlight burning as you suggest would not be wise. I learnt that the hard way.

Thomas, I don't know about others here, but I do wish that you'd just stop posting on this board. Please leave this board for real, certificated pilots. Your illogical rants and general contrariness annoy even me, and that takes quite a lot!

[RDRickster]

Thomas coupling and PPRUNE FAN#1, you two crack me up! Always good for a laugh in the morning. Thanks for starting the day with a little comedy (I just hope the two of you never meet in the same room).

[Thomas coupling]

Poon flit No:36(a)

I especially enjoyed your last para. It shows all is not in vain...I am slowly....albeit very slowly...getting under your skin.....:E

Now all I've got to do is: be a real pilot :oh:





drip......drip......drip.........drip.......drip

[Giovanni Cento Nove]

Cultural exchange.........

Now I know why all foreigners are refferred to by US authorities as "aliens" when us foreigners actually think the opposite and why the first line of the Brit CAA regs sez "Thou shall not fly, unless.............

[Letsby Avenue]

TC - The 350s at Shawbury IAW RAF rules flew everywhere with the landing lamp on; very good it was too! Except when the wiring started to burn out and smoke filled the cockpit etc, etc! They had to modify their fleet - Have you modded yours?:rolleyes:

[Gomer Pylot]

PF, you check the nav lights by turning the battery on. You need to be looking at the light as you do, and it flashes on briefly, then goes back out. It helps to have 2 pilots, one watching each side. They come on as soon as the starter is released and the generator starts working, if you have them turned on, and I have them turned on all the time. As for mechanics whining about replacing landing lights - tell them it's job security, they always have something to do. Better to replace landing lights and even a few wires than complete helicopters, with pilots. The only time things burn is when the pilot forgets to turn it off after landing. I keep mine on all the time during the day, and did when I flew 206s. I turn it off at night when out in the Gulf, because I can't see anything outside with it on in cruise (as if there were that much to see anyway) and I want to try to keep some semblance of night vision. When there is lots of haze it's really bad. I don't turn it on until short final. On and approaching the beach, I keep it on at night, because being seen is more important than seeing.

[ShyTorque]

We fly with red anti-collision light on before the rotor turns, as required by UK authoritiy.

Plus navigation "glow-worms in glass jars", as required by UK authority, by night, which as already stated, only come on with the first generator on line.

Then u/c mounted white landing lights (one each side) plus searchlight as required, day or night for taxying & t/o.

Then white strobes ON plus white HISLs ON before entering a runway or before takeoff from a helipad by day, or even by night - unless the reflections become distracting.

"As required" in the cruise for the searchlight = as soon as conflict with other traffic is likely e.g. if detected by visual means, TCAS or ATC, or when entering ATZs or other choke points.

And STILL we are often the ones to take avoiding action when it's the responsibility of the other pilot according to the rules of the air. Beats me how many pilots ever got a medical on eyesight or passed the air law exam .... :rolleyes:

TC and PF#1, your double act gets better :p

[Head Turner]

Those of you who fly B206 - get the wiring sorted by the mec's and fly safer.
The wiring on those Bells are pretty fragile but was ok way back when they were first built but we now fit all sorts of gadgets which demand greater current flow.

[redandwhite]

On our 61 we have two red strobes, one on the top of the tail, one for'd under the belly, plus two white strobes on the sponsons, plus two landing lights and standard nav lights.

Just before getting airborne, the whole lot goes on; the landing lights get a rest when we go offshore, (there's not much traffic off our coast). They also go off after landing, because they do tend to burn out.

I would say that careful management of the LLs will ensure no burn out.