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Eboy
6th Sep 2001, 16:21
You British natives help me with this cultural mystery. In 1991 my girlfriend and I, both U.S. citizens, traveled to England for a wonderful holiday. She had previously worked illegally as a cook at a London inn for two years while trying to figure out what to do with her life. Anyway, she told me, if anyone asks you where you are from, say Toronto. I asked why, and she said I'd get a better reaction from people. She was right. For example, at a petrol stop, the attendant asked me where I was from and I said "Toronto." "Oh good," he said. "I thought you were a bloody Yank." My girlfriend was never able to give me a good explanation for this phenomenon. Perhaps one of you can. Also, have things changed in 10 years? By the way, I am as offended about many aspects of U.S. culture as anyone, so don't worry about offending me. Name-calling is OK, but I'd be even more grateful for a paragraph or two of objective analysis. Thank you for your kindness.

BRL
6th Sep 2001, 16:30
Phewee......This thread is just asking for trouble.... :rolleyes:

under_exposed
6th Sep 2001, 16:39
I have posted this before but it will give you an indication of is how the British view americans:

ARE YOU AN AMERICAN?
Questionnaire


1. You decide that the relationship with your partner is over. How
do you break the news you are leaving?

(a) Leave a tearful note on the table and slip quietly away
(b) Calmly discuss the reasons with your partner for your decision
(c) Attack them with a chair in front of a rabble of cheering pumped-up
inbreds on national television.

2. You and your mates decide to have a game of football in the park. What
do you need to take?

(a) A ball
(b) A ball and 2 coats
(c) A ball, 50 crash helmets, 4 tons of body armour, 20 cheerleaders, a
marching sousaphone band with a grand piano on a
trolley, and a team of orthopaedic surgeons specialising in spinal
injuries.

3. You are driving along a country road when you accidentally run over a
rabbit. What do you do?

(a) Stop and see how badly injured it is, taking it to a vet if it is
still alive
(b) Carry on driving, but hope it is still alive, or if not, that it died
quickly
(c) Strap it across the bonnet of your car and drive home hollering,
whooping and throwing empty Budweiser cans out of the window.

4. You wake up in the morning with a stiff neck after sleeping in an
awkward position. What do you do?

(a) Ignore it. It will probably loosen up as the day progresses
(b) Take a couple of aspirins and get on with things.
(c) Take yourself to a prostitute-addicted TV evangelist faith healer in
an ill-fitting wig, who will lay his hands on your head, whilst screaming
about the devil in front of an audience of gibbering inbreds.

5. What do you have for breakfast?

(a) A bowl of Cornflakes, slice of toast and a mug of tea
(b) Glass of orange juice, croissant and a cup of coffee
(c) A bag of donuts with ice cream, a 32 ounce steak with six eggs sunny
side-up, fifteen pancakes with maple syrup, ten waffles, five corn dogs
and a diet root beer.

6. You and your partner decide to take the plunge and get married. What
sort of ceremony do you have?

(a) A quiet party with a few friends in a registry office
(b) A church service followed by a traditional reception at a hotel
(c) A minute long mockery at a 24 hour drive-through chapel in Las Vegas,
presided over by a transvestite vicar dressed as Elvis.

7. Your 14-year-old son is going through a difficult phase, becoming
disruptive at school and reclusive at home. What do you do?

(a) Don't worry. Its just a phase and will pass.
(b) Encourage him to get out more, get involved in team sports or join a
youth club.
(c) Take him to an armoury and buy him an arsenal of semi-automatic
weapons and enough ammunition to slaughter a small town.

8. You fancy a night in watching something funny on TV. What kind of
comedy do you choose?

(a) A sitcom like Fawlty Towers or Father Ted
(b) A sketch show like the Two Ronnies or the Fast show
(c) A thinly disguised morality play set in a massive lounge where the
audience whoop for ten minutes every time an overpaid actor with a
superglued grin on his face makes an entrance to deliver a lightweight
wisecrack.

9. Whilst getting ready for bed, you stub your toe on your wife's
dressing table. What do you do?

(a) Shout and swear a bit, after all, it did hurt
(b) Make a mental note to move the table so it doesn't happen again
(c) Immediately call a hotshot lawyer with an uptown reputation, and sue
your wife's ass.

10. You are responsible for the USA's presidential electoral process. do
you:

(a) Count all votes and declare a winner
(b) Count all votes and declare a winner
(c) Let the press declare who's won before the votes are counted; then
count only the votes which have been handed in by a
deadline whilst not checking if Bud, the hillbilly sheriff of
nowheres-ville, has left several thousand votes in the trunk of his Chevy
'by mistake', then force a recount of only some of the votes within just
one state and allow only 12 seconds for the recount to take place; then be
amazed that the recount hasn't finished by the deadline and increase the
deadline by another 3.2 seconds;
then ignore all votes and let 4 judges decide the result, making sure the
judges all support the same candidate; then ponce around the world telling
other countries how to run their own elections.


Answers...
If you answered:

mostly (a)'s & (b)'s then you are a normal well-balanced individual.
mostly (c)'s then do the world a favour and shoot yourself with the
anti-tank weapon you carry in the glove-box of you pick-up truck.

FODA
6th Sep 2001, 17:04
And that, my dear Yank, is about the size of it.........

oh, and there is always,

You decide to make a film about specific events in World War 2. Do you

a) Tell the story
b) Tell the story set in Context
c) Pick a story about another country, change the entire script to ensure that only the US is portrayed, re-write history in the process, and make sure the whole world knows that nobody but the US was on the allied side.

:D

FODA

Golden Monkey
6th Sep 2001, 17:06
My, you are a brave soul. I salute you!

I think you'll find this sort of analysis has come up in many different and diverse threads on this forum over recent times, but I'll endeavour to answer your question from my own humble viewpoint.

Firstly as a representative of (presumably) young travelling Americans - I would applaud you and your ilk for the manner in which you approach the world outside of the States.

Unfortunately - from what I have seen in various countries - ambassadors from the older generation do not have that sort of civility or open mindedness. I have witnessed many instances of older American tourists and travellers being wholly ignorant of local ways or customs, preferring to see the world as a big theme park which will happily perform for some more of those American dollars. It is not even so much the ignorance, but the complete lack of a desire to learn about other cultures, and the rock solid belief that America and American ways are the best in the world.

I've heard many times of US citizens pretending to be Canadians in order to get a better reception overseas - this is not just limited to Britain - I've heard of mixed American/Canadian groups getting vastly differing treatment across Europe. Especially in France! Canadians seem to be much better travelled than their American counterparts, and coming from a much more homogenous society seem far more open to different cultures.

And then there's the whole gun thing, but I'm not even going to go there (a bulletin board search on "Guns" should suffice).

As an aside I think the British (and this one certainly has come up in a lot of discussions) certainly resent the portrayal in the media of American involvement in 20th century history which is often ludicrously far from the truth. Having the worlds dominant film and media industry unfortunately gives everyone the world over the view that Americans believe they were truly instrumental in every great event or achievement in mankinds' history, even when this is not the case. Having spent some time in North America I can understand how your media do provide the impression that the USA is the greatest nation on earth - and everything else is either quaint, "rogue" or irrelevant. Through such media, to the rest of the world America can seem very introverted, isolationist, arrogant and ignorant of it's place among nations.

Hmm. Not sure this has come across quite how I intended it and I apologise if this offends. I will reiterate however that the younger generation of Americans I have met outside of the States have always come across extremely well - generous, courteous and polite. I suppose that with the horrendously low percentage of American citizens that own passports, those who DO make the effort to travel and experience the world are, by definition, going to be the more open minded ones with a desire to learn about alternative ways of life! Unfortunately they are in the minority!

Biggles Flies Undone
6th Sep 2001, 17:33
Brave post Eboy! This is nothing personal, but please consider this:

Kyoto Agreement – dishonoured because it would be too unpopular with the voters (we’re talking about the future of ALL our descendants here).

Non-proliferation Treaty – too inconvenient to adhere to now, so let’s just rip it up (got to make sure our a$$es are covered in case one of those other pesky third world nations takes a pop at Uncle Sam).

AND yesterday Dubya announced that America “has no more important relationship in the world” than with Mexico. Well, next time some loony threatens America's long term oil supply, maybe you can get the Mexicans to go down there and chuck a few Jalepenos at them!

Like I said, nothing personal.

FlyingForFun
6th Sep 2001, 18:00
To me, Superbowl sums it up.

There's nothing wrong with American Football, I actually like the game. There's nothing wrong with Superbowl. But how can you call the winners of Superbowl the "World" Champions? The fact is, they're the United States of America Champions.

Now we all know that if the Superbowl winners were to play the Worldbowl winners (that's NFL Europe's equivalent), the Americans would win. (This is at least partly because all the players in NFL Europe are Americans, owned by NFL teams, but sent to Europe because they're not good enough to get into their own team.) But until they've played that game, until someone from outside the USA has had a chance to participate, you can not call your domestic champions the "World Champions".

Problem is, this extends to more than just football. Americans seem to forget that there's a world outside America. European workers at my company frequently get bombarded with e-mails about US tax issues, US departments moving buildings, company meetings in the US, etc. These mails are always sent to "Entire Company, Worldwide". They're usually followed by an e-mail from their senders' European counterparts, to the effect of "Please ignore the previous e-mail - details of how this affects European employees will be sent out separately." (I'd imagine similar mails are sent out to employees in other parts of the world, too.)

I'm reliably informed that most maps of the world in the USA show America in the middle. Despite the fact that the rest of the world place 0 degrees longitude in the centre of the map. I heard of one American who (and I forget the exact places involved, but you'll get the idea) was surprised to learn that England and Germany are only a few hundred miles from each other, because he'd only ever seen them on opposite sides of the map of the world.

The fact is that American's see the word "Worldwide", and forget that this word includes places outside America.

All in general terms, of course. Most stereotypes are based on fact, but there are always exceptions, and I've met some Americans who do not fit into this stereotype at all. Eboy, I'd guess that includes you, otherwise you wouldn't have posted the question.

FFF
------------

PS - Under_exposed, I love your q+a session!

You want it when?
6th Sep 2001, 18:26
Raises head above the parapet...

I've worked in the US (for a German company) and found them to be friendly but pretty shallow, and no idea of Geography. "You live in London, England? Do you know my great Aunt, she lives in Liverpool?". I always crack up when asked to direct them "Licester Square" but hey it is a foreign language. They are also lousy drinkers.

Having said that I married the girl next door who is as American as Apple Pie (and an estate agent with her own firm hence the first comment). She does popcorn, the best steaks and when I met her owned a V8 Mustang (hence the reason I started dating her!)

I used to laugh at the news in Lowell - Arkansas, it would cover such diverse topics as the weather in great detail, Mrs Grundys cows milk production. And at the end of the 5 mins slot - 30secs would be devoted to elsewhere in the world Britain to send a detachment to aid the US forces fighting in the Gulf.

On the whole I think of the US of A, as stuck in a 50s time warp. A great place to visit, don't drink the water and don't work too hard as you will embarrass the natives. Better than S****horpe or the Peoples Republic of Hull (Telecoms guys will understand) but not a patch on Milton Keynes. :)

The Mistress
6th Sep 2001, 18:30
It's attitude I'm afraid Eboy.

At a restaurant in Paris I watched an American chap try in vain to attract a waiter's attention. He was clicking his fingers and calling "garcon". (This went on for quite some time). The waiter acted as though the American didn't exist.

A slight lifting of the hand and "Monsieur" brought the waiter immediately to our table, and we had his undivided attention.

The American chap looked totally perplexed :)

At another restaurant in Germany I watched a crowd of Americans from Ramstein order drinks and then leave the building without paying for or cancelling the drinks. A loud woman said "we can do what we like, we're Americans" as she moved from the table!

I also observed an American man getting very aggressive with a ticket attendant in Brussels. He wanted to pay for his tickets in US Dollars, rather than Belgian currency! The ticket attendant was patiently explaining that she could accept the dollars, but the exchange rate would make the tickets more expensive. The American didn't like that at all!

I am aware that Colonial Brits have been guilty of such bad behaviour in the past, but I think you are referring to modern day events.

PS - Forgive me if you've heard these stories from Nil Nos before but they are the kind of events that stick in your memory for some reason.

PPS - I like Americans and I like America :)

JetAgeHobo
6th Sep 2001, 18:58
So I took the test, and wound up all a's and b's, so I must not really be an American, but some other nationality in an American's body/passport.

Or I spend WAY too much time out of the U.S.
Just got back after a month in S. China. Who was that woman I slept with last night?

Julian
6th Sep 2001, 19:14
I goto CA quite abit, whilst sat in a bar a mate where our accents were from. He replied "Guess?" to which the response from the yank was "Thats nice, whats the weather like there?" !!!! :rolleyes:

Another thing which totally perplexes them in when they say that visited England and you say "I bet you visted London, Bath, Stratford, York & Edinburgh". They look totally bemused at how you guessed - I think they think thats al the UK consists of :D

My all favourtite though was when myself and a friend visted Lake Havasue City - home of the famous London Bridge. Arriving in the car park the attendant asked where I was from "England" I replied. "aha, England - have you come to see if we are looking after your bridge?". "Yes" I said, "Pity you bought the wrong one though." At this point my money was snatched off me and I was ordered into a parking spot :D

I love em though - good fun to wind up. I hope they never find out what sarcasm is or I may have to stop going :D :D :D :D

RW-1
6th Sep 2001, 19:15
I think the problem for most of my bretheren is that they are not tought any better.

I'm in Fl, having moved there, and most of the nuts I work with haven't even left the county, let alone the state or country. Sad.

My take on travelling is that I am a GUEST. I shall act like a guest, and try my best not to look the fool, or the stereotypical American. It took time and effort, but payed off while I was there, once accepted by the locals I had a blast in Italy for 3 years while in service, and had the same fun at restraunts as the Mistress, watching my friends try to get waited on. :D

I usually start conversations with others before getting around to where I'm from, by asking them about themselves, the area, etc, by the time I get to telling them I'm US, it hasn't mattered.

Of course, I'm one of those exceptions ...

Golden Monkey
6th Sep 2001, 19:29
Oh, and the bastardisation of the English Language. My perennial favourite being "Aluminum". Not only pronounced, but spelt incorrectly. Aluminium is a chemical element, I would have though it was beyond such treatment!

On that topic - something you may be able to help me with - why on earth do Americans drop the "h" from the word "herb", seemingly without doing the same for any other word of similar composition? They've just started showing an infuriating US advert on British television for some shampoo or somesuch :

"She's got the urge to 'erbal"

Which, if I were a lady searching for haircare products (incidentally I am neither), I would steer clear of like the plague for it's flagrantly dumbed down approach to pronounciation.

OneWorld22
6th Sep 2001, 19:30
You want the real truth Eboy? The simple fact which wiill be denied by all the brits here in PPRuNe is that Britian is quite simply jealous of what the US became after they unceremoniously dumped Britain out of their affairs and started up a new country built on totally alien principles to the british.

That's it!

p.s I was born and raised in New York City by american parents, moved here when young then went back for a time in my late teens, then came back to Dublin and have lived here ever since, (married an Irish woman you see!). So I've a pretty good take on the relationship between the US and her european "friends."

You want it when?
6th Sep 2001, 19:33
ROFL OneWorld - next time you visit the planet check in. UK jealous of the States, who writes this stuff for you?

drunkflyer
6th Sep 2001, 19:41
I personally love America, just a shame it's full of Americans. :D :D :D

Biggles Flies Undone
6th Sep 2001, 19:55
Nice try OW22 but I know you're far too intelligent to be serious about that, so mine is one chain you're not going to tug!

Stick to cheering us up about the football mate :D

Al Titude
6th Sep 2001, 20:09
Speaking of the US, they do a very good line in Dodge Rams! I can hightly recommend a website www.ramcam20m.com (http://www.ramcam.20m.com) on the subject!


Changed due to crap spelling!

[ 06 September 2001: Message edited by: Al Titude ]

OneWorld22
6th Sep 2001, 22:11
Damn Biggles, I thought for sure I might tempt you into a spirited response!!!!
A bit mischevious I admit!

I was glad you eventually checked in to the football thread, I was worried you were in some hospital somewhere getting your stomach pumped after Munich!!

What do you think of last night? I know England didn't play as well as munich, but they were never likely to follow that performance against a weaker side like Alabania. But I would still say, job well done for Sven and the team. I'm especially pleased as a longtime LFC supporter, all the goals scored in the past two matches have been by the red men!!

Bad luck the Scots, but roll on Japan and Korea for Ireland and England. I was talking to some friends in the pub last night and we agreed after the qualifying games are played, that it would be a good time for Ireland and England to have a friendly. I think the atmosphere is right now. The last one was of course abandoned after English hooligans went beserk. I'd like it to be played I the UK this time, preferably Anfield or Old Trafford just to reduce the chance of violence.

Chocksaway!
6th Sep 2001, 22:43
America is superior in wealth, technology, innovation, productivity, natural resources, and military power.

Americans do not apologise for being American, and this is what annoys the British.

As for being ignorant? 57 million Sun readers can't be wrong!!!!!!!!!!

Send Clowns
6th Sep 2001, 23:46
Some Americans are simply incapable of understanding that people are not all jealous of them. I took several posts to explain to an American why I (having spent a total of around 6 months in the US, in more different states than most Americans have visited) did not wish to live there. He insisted I must want to, and never understood what I was saying. He did not believe that Europeans think of Americans as unsophisticated, because the bulk of the US population consider different things important, and they consider wide availability of large cars, air conditioning, cable TV and McDonalds to be the most important indications of advanced society. He even tried to persuade me that the US has more restaurants per capita than Europe - of course he included fast-food outlets, which do not count as restaurants. He and other Americans cannot see that we prefer not to have universal right to own guns.

Having said all this, if you show Americans the rest of the world, and they actually see it because it is their everyday life, not vacation or leisure, they get on fine. I was flying out in Ormond Beach FL last year, the owner, nearly all the students and some instructors are European, so the American employees had to work closely in basically a European environment. They gradually started to understand the rest of the world, and see that actually most Americans miss a lot simply because they don't encounter concepts that are common experience everywhere else. Last I heard two of the girls working their had vowed never to date another American, because the Europeans they had met were more considerate, less predictable/homogenous and more interesting than American men.

So just by seeing the rest of the world and accepting that it is different from America, and people genuinely have different desires and opinions than Americans, you are saved, Eboy! :D Glad you enjoyed your holiday here.

Note that I in common with most people here like America and Americans.

[ 06 September 2001: Message edited by: Send Clowns ]

Bally Heck
7th Sep 2001, 00:08
Hey Julian from Reading Wales. Which atlas have you been reading which shows Edinburgh to be part of a tour of England. Perhaps much of this thread could apply also to the English.

Helmets on men....Incoming

[ 06 September 2001: Message edited by: Bally Heck ]

LatviaCalling
7th Sep 2001, 00:40
It's easy to be a non-American. First sew on a maple leaf to your parka, then learn to pronounce "out" and "about" and "house" in Canadian and when someone asks you where your from, just say from "North America."

I did that for two years in Leningrad. The KGB knew I was American, but the locals thought I was Canadian and they loved it.

[ 06 September 2001: Message edited by: LatviaCalling ]

hmc
7th Sep 2001, 00:53
I don't like to get into the serious stuff too often but keep in mind..we can travel almost three thousand miles and never encounter a different language, currency or basic lifestyle. We are not really accustomed to getting off the airplane or train and dealing with different cultures, in some cases hostile.

North and south, but that is getting old, east coast and west but we can deal with that, it's not animosity just regional pride in where we live.

The ugly American is out there but until we have an intelligence test as part of getting a passport I guess that will be a universal part of one country having to deal with the shortcomings of another country's citizens.

If I have to present myself as a Canadian when traveling to Europe or the UK I guess I will stay home, is tourism not a major part of what you do for a living?

We have a saying here in the gun toting USA, it's called shooting yourself in the foot....

tom775257
7th Sep 2001, 05:23
I am an American living in England..I must say I find some Americans very ignorant and sheltered, but generally I find Americans more pleasant and polite than Europeans. America is a great country, but it needs to open its eyes to the world. And yes, it really p*sses me off some of my family saying 'erbs.. and perhaps the classic American asking the english person 'what language do you speak in England.'

[ 07 September 2001: Message edited by: tom775257 ]

DrSyn
7th Sep 2001, 12:32
I should like to add my admiration for Eboy in starting such a courageous thread - especially on JB!

Having enjoyed the privilege of paid travel to much of the world over the past 30 years, it seems that, away from extreme political or religious influence, humans are pretty much alike regardless of location. Each national population has its proportion of people who, regardless of economic circumstances, behave considerately and want to get along with others, and those who could care less. In this respect, no single nation has shown itself to hold a monopoly on "ignorance".

By virtue of its size and self-dependence, the USA has tended towards a rather insular culture, in certain respects, but so too has the former Soviet block and China. Over the years "free enterprise" Hollywood (re:FODA) has re-written history in just as dire a fashion as did the "state owned" USSR and People's Republic - MGM et al just made more money doing it. The "educational" effect on some of its citizens was similar, however.

I agree with tom775257. Anyone observing the attitude and conduct of British, German or French tourists in many of the popular package destinations would need a lot of gall to suggest that today's American travellers are so offensive. And I won't even start on the international Soccer scene. . . although I suppose I just did :)

Biggles, don't be too hard on Dubya. By gaining the support of the vast illegal-immigrant population, he may finally achieve a majority at the next election. I am sure he really appreciates our military support but we can't vote for him, you see.

For many years now, Madame Syn and I have spent most of our vacations staying with friends in the USA, well away from the Mouse House, and have always been impressed by the hospitality, friendliness and good manners of the South.

[ 11 September 2001: Message edited by: DrSyn ]

swashplate
7th Sep 2001, 12:58
Dr Syn:

Uhhhhhhh?

Whaddya mean by FODA?

Sorry mate, brain cells not on line yet....

The Mistress
7th Sep 2001, 14:10
Pat on the back to the thread originator.

Dr Syn et al - don't get wound up - the posters here have their tongues in their cheeks.

Having lived alongside American servicemen for a number of years both in Germany and the UK I do have some views and opinions which may not go down well here. I didn't use the word 'ignorant', someone else did. But, for what it's worth I will repeat that I like Americans (in general) and their country.

I DON'T read the Sun, I DON'T go to Oybeefa or Magaluf and I'm not too keen on football! Each to their own - avoid the oiks of all nations.

I too had first hand experience of America and Americans when my sister lived in Cos Cob, Connecticut (her husband worked in NYC). She kindly allowed hubby and I to use her home as a springboard to see bits of the US from Mystick (sp?) to Washington DC. Can't say going by the backyards of Baltimore on a train was the highlight, but hey, it's a great country.

Like you I've met some pleasant, friendly people. Doesn't stop me seeing the other side of the coin though.

I've also been to New Jersey. I'll stick with Oxfordshire thanks ;)

I don't work in the tourist industry. I came to this BB via the military door.

N380UA
7th Sep 2001, 14:18
FODA,DrSyn

Whether they can or cannot portray history to their liking, the fact remains, they're a bit too arrogant, be it on behalf of the allied forces, the axis powers or even the Japanese. :mad:
...and the arrogance is not only in this aspect!!

moufflon
7th Sep 2001, 16:26
I've spent plenty of time in the US and met some lovely people, but someone had to go and ruin it for me.
I went to buy some beer in a store, presented my UK photocard driving licence as ID upon request (despite being WELL over the age!) and was asked:
-What state's that?
-No, it's from the UK
-What state?
-No, Britain
-I've never heard of that
-ENGLAND?????!!!!!!!!
-ooooohh. I don't think we can accept that...

But this was Texas.. :D

Biggles Flies Undone
7th Sep 2001, 16:38
OW22 I thought England did a pretty good job on Wednesday night. There was a lot of pressure on them – can you imagine the whoops of delight from the German press if they had slipped up? The match was never going to be a classic and I very much doubt if the Greece one will be any better – the only thing that matters is making it to the final. I read in the paper today that a good estimate of the return from sponsorship, franchises etc for England reaching the World Cup semi finals is 100,000,000. Now that is pressure!

It’s very nice to see that this thread hasn’t degenerated into a slanging match. I’ve met many Americans, both in the UK and during many trips to America. I’ve found that those who have travelled outside of the US have a far more balanced outlook on world affairs – exactly as you would expect bearing in mind the nature of US domestic press coverage. I’ve liked the large majority of Americans that I have met and admire their can-do outlook on life. I just find their politics and political machinations massively annoying.

Steepclimb
7th Sep 2001, 17:52
I love America, in all the time I spent there working with ordinary Americans. I can safely say I never had a single bad or even negative experience while there from any American, lucky I guess.

But everyone has stories of which emphasises American insularity. Even within the US I heard stories like the guy who was asked where he came from, Vermont he said. 'What State is that in?' was the next question.

But to get back to the point, the bad attitude to Americans in many countries is largely self inflicted. Everybody has met arrogant and ignorant American visitors. It leaves a bad taste in the mouth. Even if most Americans are not like that, you all get the blame. Some of it is just cultural misunderstanding. American toursists behave in exactly the same way while in the United States. But some of it is pure bad manners and arrogance.

But it isn't just Americans. Germans suffer the same treatment for many of the same reasons and naturally for other historic reasons.
But it's largely about attitude and how you approach people. But sometimes you just can't win.

Incidentally, for you English lest you become too smug, try pretending to be Irish or Australian or a New Zealander on the continent. You will be amazed. The English are known to be arrogant and rude too on occasion. There are plenty of arrogant and rude Irish, Australians and New Zealanders too it's just that everyone in Europe assumes all English speakers are English or American and treat you accordingly.

Julian
7th Sep 2001, 17:57
Ballyheck- You are quite right and a mosy humble apology! Think I got my atlas from Poundland :D

OK - heres my real gripe which I forgot to add and hopefully eBoy can answer this one.

Why, when you ask a Yank where is he from, is he never from America - he is always Irish/American or something??? This is despite the fact that he has never been there, his parents/grnadparents/great grand parents/ etc aren't even Irish but someone 15 generations down the line may have been. Hes an American for Gods sake - but they can't work that one out!! :rolleyes:

I had a major wind up session with my mates wife (who is from New York), who claims to be Irish/American for these reasons. I do admit to finding it immensely amusing to watch her try and argue her corner :D :D

mad_jock
7th Sep 2001, 18:21
I must admit it dosn't matter where you go if you tell them your from Scotland or Ireland you get a great responce.

Pubs start extending drinking hours.
The occasional lapses into foul language are smiled at (one of the girls went over her ankle while showing some locals a reel and showed her aryshire roots.)
People get drunk, start a party. Its looked on as amusing when arses are shown to every passing police car. If there is a group of english lads out they warm up the riot police.

I never say i am British only Scottish or in mixed company a celt.

MJ
(who has just returned home after working for 2 years in germany)

Hogwash
7th Sep 2001, 22:12
I thought that it all started during WW2 when all the Yanks where based in the UK.

They had access to silk stockings, gum and chocolates and as a result got their legs over with the Brit girls! (Big Time!)

There are many Brits born then who do not really know who their Dads are! So it is a sort of "hard cheese" things passed down the generations!!

:D :D :D

RW-1
7th Sep 2001, 22:19
Uh, as I reacll America is a contenent.

I am from the United States of America, or the United States, or the U.S.

That may be why we never say from America, though I have acknowledged yes when asked if I am American.

DrSyn
7th Sep 2001, 22:59
Mistress, if you thought I was wound up when I wrote my previous, you either didn't read it properly, or you are, in fact, really a Sun reader :)

I beg to differ with our US cousin, RW-1, but whilst you are clearly an educated person of the world, I am afraid that 90% of your fellow citizens refer to themselves as Americans. Some are quite surprised to learn that Mexico and Canada are also in America!

However, I must confess to a certain amount of affection for that great anthem, "God Bless the United States of America . . ." , QED ;)

JetAgeHobo
7th Sep 2001, 23:57
Julian, the whole (nationality)American, etc thing for some reason still is in existance even here. When people in the U.S. hear my family name, they ask "are you Polish?" (no you dork, the name's Hungarian and I was born in Missouri in an Italian neighborhood.)

Now I was born in U.S. both my parent's were born in U.S., all my grandparents were immigrants. But here in U.S. you still get judged by your family heritage. Every one still clings to their family heritage a little bit, see in the U.S. there is no real national identity, so many people are from somewhere else.

The real fun is when you get some clown immigration inspector wanting to know why someone with a last name like mine is holding a U.S. passport.

But it's an awful big country here and not all that much of it is urban. Fly over it sometime and you'll get a sense of all the small towns, many of the inhabitants only clue as to what's happening in the outside world is from local chanel from Boise, and the most important thing in their life is if it's going to rain, or if the local high school football team won their last game. But they're good people, work hard and think would score a's and b's on the test above.

So there

hmc
8th Sep 2001, 00:28
DrSyn, we are liberal with our blessings and include all occupants from Tierra Del Fuego to the Bering Strait. :)

DrSyn
8th Sep 2001, 00:41
A magnanimous gesture,hmc!

tony draper
8th Sep 2001, 00:48
When you see the way Brits behave in Spain we are hardly in a position to criticise anyone.
If they have trailer trash on the Klingon home world, they are probably better behaved.

hmc
8th Sep 2001, 01:12
DrSyn, any of the brethren wishing to be left out of our blessing are asked to write us, we will ammend the blessing, God Bless America except...

Tony, Klingons are not included...pardon the edit, I am not sure if it is within our jurisdiction as Americans :)

[ 07 September 2001: Message edited by: hmc ]

tony draper
8th Sep 2001, 01:18
Anyway by all rights it should be named the United States Of Cabotia,after John Cabot as he was the first to actually set foot in Cabotia, Vespucci never got there and Colombus was miles away, Vespucci's sister Simonetta Vespucci was much more caim to fame than old Amerigo, she was the model for Venus, in Botticelli's famous painting.
Also it was called Americus at first and later changed to the feminine form America.
na na nana na, feminine name, feminine name.
;)

[ 07 September 2001: Message edited by: tony draper ]

The Mistress
8th Sep 2001, 01:35
Dr Syn

LOL !! Sorry to disappoint you - The FT, Time magazine and the National Geographic are about all I get time for. I've got 2 Patricia Cornwell novels on the go. She's an American - does that score me any brownie points with our US cousins?

Hmm ... this pot seems to be bubbling nicely, well, maybe just one more stir with the wooden spoon ... :)

hmc
8th Sep 2001, 01:52
Perhaps the Ericson clan could be included here as far as first landed.

tony draper
8th Sep 2001, 01:57
Hey Hank how about that 10,000 year old skeleton of a Pakistani they found at keniwick, huh! its got those red indians a tad worried. ;)
oops sorry, should have said Native Americans

[ 07 September 2001: Message edited by: tony draper ]

TowerDog
8th Sep 2001, 02:20
America: A Norwegian colony since 1004 A.D.
:cool:

NoSurrender
8th Sep 2001, 02:20
obviously couldn`t find a corner to build a shop on.

TowerDog
8th Sep 2001, 04:02
We did build a shop, but ah, there was no customers.

LatviaCalling
8th Sep 2001, 04:48
JetAgeHobo,
"..see in the U.S. there is no real national identity, so many people are from somewhere else.

"The real fun is when you get some clown immigration inspector wanting to know why someone with a last name like mine is holding a U.S. passport."

JetAge, I would even go a step further. Everybody in the U.S. is from somewhere else, except for the native people.

I recently had to have my passport renewed at the U.S. Embassy in Riga and they did one of those old types with no electronic readouts that you can swish through the electronic counter. Caused big problems. The immigration inspector had to call his super and then they had to punch in my passport number manually and then there was much looking at my and one question:

"What are you doing in the United States and how long do you plan to stay?

"I'm coming home," replied.

After much discussion among the two they decided to let me back in. I was really pis*ed off and the agriculture dog sniffed out my Danish bacon.

Bad day in Seattle.

HotDog
8th Sep 2001, 06:33
Never mind the 'erbs. How about "Honey, have you slimed yet?" :rolleyes:

Mert
8th Sep 2001, 08:42
moufflon,
I had the same trouble in Texas when I still had my Colorado license, I guess only 21 year old and up Texans are allowed to drink alcohol some places here.

:p

AntiCrash
8th Sep 2001, 09:42
One Word - Jerry Springer! Wait a minute that's two words... See what I mean? :cool:

DrSyn
8th Sep 2001, 13:00
Following tony d's line, as Juan Ponce de Leon "discovered" Florida, which led to the first permanent European town of St Augustine, shouldn't it really be The United States of Ponce?

HugMonster
8th Sep 2001, 15:31
According to this morning's "Letter from America", Septic media had great difficulty reporting a certain bust-up at Flushing Meadow, when a black line judge was reviled for being biased in favour of a black player. You see, they just don't like using the term "black". If they absolutely have to, they use the term "African American", or leave out any reference whatever to colour. How on earth did they get themselves in this tangle?

In the Caribbean, the police at the airport on Montserrat were greatly amused by one of my passengers inbound, whose passport described her nationality as "African American". What amused them, apart from the fact that she was obviously so stupid she couldn't tell the difference between "Ethnic Origin" and "Nationality", was that she clearly wanted to differentiate herself from common-or-garden "black", like what they were...

The real difference, of course, is that it didn't matter a damn to them what they were - they were proud to be whatever they were. She was, whilst confusing her origin with her nationality, trying to deny the simple fact - she was black, negro, whatever.

As a sideline, all the time I was in that part of the world, I was constantly amused by the airside passes everyone had, which not only had a photo of the holder, of course, but also a physical "description". How many people do you suppose you can differentiate from:-
Hair - black
Eyes - brown? :D
What a lovely place it is... :)

[ 08 September 2001: Message edited by: HugMonster ]

tony draper
8th Sep 2001, 15:54
Another little known snippet,the original title of the First President was to have been,
His Highness, George Washington,the President of the United States and Protector of its Liberties, and Martha was refered to as Lady Washington.
A monarchy was also seriously concidered albeit a elected one until a rumour swept through Washington that the new crown would be offered to George 111 son the Duke of York.

Nil nos tremefacit
8th Sep 2001, 18:54
Seem to remember reading that they also tried to establish an aristocracy. Landgrave of Delaware....something like that. It was a combination of English, French and German titles. It never really caught on, which is a real pity. Could you imagine the Earl of Hicksville, Ill?

'Milord, the Baron Redneck of Montgomery and Her Ladyship, the Baroness Redneck request the company of .......at the lynching of John Doe, an uppity blackamoor.

RSVP

Dress: Formal white cotton sheets, with matching hood. Burning crosses optional.

Afterwards at Hillbilly House for sherry and finger buffet.'

An opportunity missed if you ask me. :rolleyes:

hmc
8th Sep 2001, 19:16
Tony, I don't think old George wanted to chance having to appear in the strange costumes associated with British nobility of the era...Flowing ermine tipped robes would not wear well on the muddy roads of the colonies..plus the crown, staff, jewels etc..way too much for the neighborhood.

tony draper
8th Sep 2001, 20:12
Don't think the roads were much better here then Hank, just the places were closer together.
No matter what system of Government we chose then, I don't think its working now.
Don't know about the USA,but the more I think about it ,what we need here is some kind of benign dictatorship,that can clean this place up and put it back together again the problem being finding some leader with a personality in this country.

Steepclimb
8th Sep 2001, 21:39
Actually you're all wrong, It was an Irishman who discovered the new world. St Brendan, so it should be the United States of Brendania or maybe Irelandia. We took it over anyway so it's academic.

The reason that so many American announce themselves as Irish, German or whatever is all down to a natural instinct to belong to something. Feel part of something. Only in America is the phrase, 'If you don't like it here why don't you get out' used against fellow citizens. I cannot imagine immigration in any other country asking a passport holder and thus a citizen for the purpose of their visit.

This lack of roots does have an impact. It's hard to understand when you live in a land where your ancestors lived and their ancestors before them as many of us do. But if you're parent were immigrants, what are you?

But many Americans I've met are first and foremost American, that's the healthy way to be. The beauty of America is that almost anyone can earn the right to call themselve Amrerican. If I was to live there and gain citizenship, I would be proud to call myself American but I wouldn't forget my origins.

tony draper
8th Sep 2001, 22:27
It would also pay us to remember that America pulled us out the sh*t twice in the last century.
Hmm perhaps it's just as well we didn't try very hard in that revolutiony war thing.
Good job we didn't sent Sharpe and his chaps.
;)

[ 08 September 2001: Message edited by: tony draper ]

Flying Lawyer
8th Sep 2001, 22:39
America?
Wonderful country, wonderful people.
Twenty years ago this month, I turned down an attractive offer from a firm of Attorneys in California - probably the biggest mistake I've made in my life to date!

Edit:
And NOT just because they pay their lawyers better! :p

[ 08 September 2001: Message edited by: Flying Lawyer ]

tony draper
8th Sep 2001, 22:44
Hey just had another thought, just as well old Francis Pizarro didn't turn north Imagine what the USA would have been called if he had discovered it.
Pizmania,that would have probably been anglicised into Pistopia. ;)

B.Loser
8th Sep 2001, 23:12
Something else to take into consideration is our government's (U.S.) definition of "native American".

In my "Webster's Unabridged Dictionary" (sorry no Oxford available) the first three definitions under "native" establish the basis of being a native in direct association with the place of one's birth; as a native to one's place, region or area of birth and further refers to one's place of birth as their "native land". Look further down and you will find a definition of "native-born" as "...born in a specified place or country". However, for anyone other than an "American Indian", "American Eskimo", "Native Hawaiian" and a couple others on the list, the term "native American" in the sense of being born in this country doesn't count for anything except having a birth certificate for which to procure a passport the US INS is, more likely than not, eventually going to question - as has been pointed out several times in this thread.

Try checking the box that says "Native American" on any form or application some time and see what happens. Or, better yet, ask any American who or what a "Native American" is. In short, if you aren't part of a group that is considered, by the government's definition, as being "original or indigenous", you can't claim to be a "native American".

I've found the easiest way around all of it is, when asked, I'm from Texas. Good, bad, right or wrong - problem solved. Haven't met anyone yet who didn't know where Texas was and besides, Texas and Texans are proud of ALL of their natives.

Send Clowns
9th Sep 2001, 02:41
[Note to Tony D - actually the Americans helped the British Empire to pull Europe out of the poo twice this century, if perhaps for reasons of our own national interests. Britain would not have been successfully invaded in either world war]

Having been away a short time this thread has grown! I must agree with the comment that Britain has much to be ashamed of in or tourists abroad, but I find the British middle-class tourists at least to be more polite than the southern European, German and Americans, having lived in several tourist attractions. At university a German tourist lifted his 3-year old daughter up to the window of a friend's bedroom, a room in an attractive 17th-century building, but a private space! Another friend found tourists (Spanish-speaking, suspected Spaniards) had climb the stairs in his block (that was a dodgy 1960s affair) to look around!

The way I find to distinguish myself from rude British tourists is to be British but speak at least a few words of the local language. I get a much better response, and have been served over the heads of two rows of waiting customers at a Spanish bar by saying "una cerveza por favor" while they all asked for a beer in English.

Send Clowns
9th Sep 2001, 03:02
More on-topic, one answer came to me today. I was recovering from a rather fun evening last night in the coffee bar of a bookshop, reading by chance short pieces by American authors - F. Scott Fitzgerald then Edgar Alan Poe. It struck me that at the time Fitzgerald was writing the USA really was the height of sophistication.

The country that produced Steinbeck, Harper Lee and Hemingway, the nation that invented Jazz music, how did that country ever come to present such a crude face to the world?

Send Clowns
9th Sep 2001, 03:55
P.S. I understand that the aboriginal people of North America mostly prefer the term 'First Nation People'. It also reminds those tempted towards racism that they are not the first to hold those lands, and the 'send them home' attitude is even more absurd than it is in the rest of the world!

Fingerbang
9th Sep 2001, 04:32
Re comments about Superbowl from many pages ago.
I am World Champion at "Feed the Spider". It's as relevant as American Football and none of the players have so far ended up in jail on multiple rape and drug charges.

mutt
9th Sep 2001, 11:37
I love going through US Immigration......

Q "What is the purpose of your visit......."
A "To get laid and drink beer........."

It's amazing what you can get away with when you have an Irish passport.....

Mutt. :)

henry crun
9th Sep 2001, 12:29
Maybe I should borrow your passport next time Mutt.

Q. "What is the purpose of your visit ?"

Me. "To attend a family reunion"

Q. "What is a family reunion ?" :
:rolleyes:

darryld
10th Sep 2001, 04:25
Any other Canadians out there pi$$ed off about all these Americans pretending to be Canadian? :D

AA SLF
10th Sep 2001, 05:06
Been lurking this thread for a couple of days trying to decide if it was proper for me to reply or not based upon the "topic". You see, I am a Texan, that is - a native of the Republic of Texas! Oh yes, I do have a valid Republic of Texas passport, signed by the then Governor, the Hon.William Clements. Valid as can be and never expires! :D Yes, I do have to show a USA passport when I travel internationally, rule are rules you know.

I have been treated very nice in International travel, probably because I am like B.Loser in that I always reply that I am from Texas rather than USA. People always seem to be so interested when I say that and it starts lots of conversations going when I am outside of the States. Still get lots of questions about the TV show called "Dallas" when I say I am from the Dallas area.

I agree that some Americans are really not very "nice" travellers when overseas. But, those same people are also not very nice even when they are at home. "Ugly" Americans, I agree! We have a whole city full of folks like that here - it is called New York City.

Little known fact - did you know that Texas is the only state of the "union" that has the absolute right to secede from the USA? I think we ought to do just that - secede that is. Make all those "yankees" that have been invading our fair state pay a big "tax" to move here!!! :eek: ;)

However, international visitors, even folks from the "Great White North", would receive a "Welcome" amenity of $20 each when they come here. :D

dAAvid -

Mert
11th Sep 2001, 11:29
Well, since we're talking about us "merkins" I thought I'd give a generalization of the folks from my home state of Colorado. For the most part we're a quiet friendly group and would give someone in need the shirt off our back if it would help them out ( regardless of wheather or not we could afford it ) sure there are some bone heads there as well, but they're usually the NIMBY types that just enjoy being difficult.
:p

Vfrpilotpb
11th Sep 2001, 13:59
I think Yanks are just Great, the gave us the big rorty loud Vee Eights, I also have a brother born in 1944, if any of you know a yank(I think that what she called him) called Walt, from the Bronx, would you tell him that my mothers Nylons need replacing again, and my brother would really like to meet him!

dingducky
11th Sep 2001, 15:50
i saw this quote and liked it :D

"Americans have different ways of saying things. They say 'elevator', we say 'lift' ... they say 'President', we say 'stupid psychopathic git.'"

Eboy
13th Sep 2001, 08:37
Well, there's no one I strongly disagree with. It is ... uhhh ... bracing to get it full front. And I have some new insights on our behavior. I appreciate the objective and entertaining comments. I've read every message, and will respond to a few here.

Under-exposed -- You are entertaining, somewhat exagerated, but largely accurate, I have to admit.

CZBB is Full -- Interesting point that Americans might want to concealing their identity in other countries, including France. Mangled English? Yes, but I heard a few different versions of English from East to West in London.

Biggles Flies Undone -- I'm not happy with Bush on Kyoto either. There is some junk science with regard to the environment, but I think Bush handled it poorly. With control of the U.S. Senate reverting back to the Democrats with the defection of Senator Jeffers, you may all sleep more soundly.

Flying for fun -- Yes, Americans thed to think of a world outside of the U.S. To my parents, Canada was an exotic foreign local? Overseas? Not on the radar. Why? I think maybe because our great-grandparents were so dirt poor, our grandparents poor, and our parents middle class, a lot of focus on life in the U.S. in the last century was just getting along. "Foreign travel? That or winter clothes?" Geography is a factor also. Now, I don't think these are acceptable excuses. But, I was more wordly than my parents, who were more worldly than theirs. (But, go back a little more and the whole clan came from Europe.)

Send clowns -- Yes, Americans miss a lot because of their self-imposed isolation.

The mistress -- Yes, we're loud. I've been pinned as an American based on that before.

Julian -- "Why, when you ask a Yank where is he from, is he never from America - he is always Irish/American or something??" Yeah, I guess it is because they are looking to connect somehow. Or, except for the Native Americans, all our families are from somewhere else. By the way, to me, the term "American" is objectionable because it presumes the United States, but America includes Canada, Latin America, and South America. But, my South American friends tell me then they hear America, they think of the U.S. Oh well . . .

AntiCrash -- Jerry Springer? What can I say? As someone else said, Defining deviancy downward.

darryld -- Interesting point about the impact to Canada's reputation of Americans claiming to be from Canada!

Geography? Sure, I still have trouble with that.

On race issues -- look at the faces in the tube -- someday we'll all be brown.

I have never been a fan of U.S. football. But I do stop to watch the occasional rugby or "soccer" match on the park land near the Washington Monument.

Remember, someone who speaks three languages is trilingual. Someone who speaks two languages is bilingual. Someone who speaks one language is an American.

So, yesterday morning I was on my way to Dulles Airport for a flight to LA with my little boy. I saw smoke near the Pentagon, but knowing they had a power plant that switched fuel sometimes (generating intermittent smoke) didn't think too much of it. A few minutes later I heard on the radio that all flights were cancelled. I'm trying to find a classmate who used to work in the World Trade Center. No luck yet.

Thanks for letting me hang with you Brits. This is good stuff and a lot to refect on. Hey! No one complained about the cold beer!

Golden Monkey
13th Sep 2001, 14:35
Eboy, great to hear you're Ok. I hope your former classmate is also unscathed.

Indeed, language is a wonderful thing, and you're right - regional dialect in the UK shows probably the greatest disparity per square mile than anywhere else in the world. I gather the film "Trainspotting" had to have subtitles applied for release in parts of America, which I guess proves your point!

At the end of the day you can keep your sport, I guess your beer isn't too bad, but I for one really appreciate the bagels.

The Mistress
13th Sep 2001, 20:29
Glad to see you checking in Eboy. Any luck in finding your friend?

Eboy
14th Sep 2001, 18:08
Nothing yet. I can't reach him directly, so I tried his workplace. He worked for Marsh & McClennan, division of Marsh Putnam Mercer, a financial consulting firm that had offices in several locations in Manhattan. They had 1700 in the World Trade Center. So far, 1350 have been accounted for, they say, and he's not on the list. The company is quite occupied helping the families of missing and injured employees, so I'm not going to call for a while. They say they are updating their web site with the status of their employee search. http://www.mmc.com/

[ 14 September 2001: Message edited by: Eboy ]

The Mistress
14th Sep 2001, 18:58
I'm truly sorry to hear that.

Try [email protected]

No matter how black the abyss - there is always hope.

I'd rather
14th Sep 2001, 19:08
Eboy, I'm very sorry your friend is still missing. Thoughts and prayers are with you.

Paterbrat
15th Sep 2001, 00:25
Eboy, while reading the rambling replies to your origional question I did wonder if you were still around. Glad to see you were.
Yanks, well depends on where they are, at home they;re generaly 'good people', abroad as tousists they tend to get a bit lost. I've been visiting the US for the last twentyfive years and personaly love the place and the people. It's got it's good and bad points like anywhere else, but on the whole its a big country with some bighearted people who I personaly think are pretty hard workers in the main.
With the present dreadful situation I thinks they have coped pretty well, and I think that everyone's hearts are with them. I do think that they tend not to put up with sh.t like that and expect some pretty firm action will be taken.
The President has a pretty big job ahead but I think that he does have the country behind him.
I also think that America has extended a helping hand to millions around the globe for years and it's payback time. Time to pitch in and support in anyway possible.
There is an unholy alliance of nihilistic phsycotic extremists who have crawled out from the dark holes they have been hiding in. They deserve to be hunted down and put up in front of the majority of the world who are attempting to live a reasonable human beings, and be judged. Then punished as civilisation decrees.
America is getting ready to lead the way and I hope the rest of the world will follow because until now everybody has been letting these people get awy with murder for long enough.
Sorry, I rambled Eboy but it's not been good for you guys recently and I think everyone's pretty shocked about it.

Rollingthunder
15th Sep 2001, 04:17
I see AA SLF hasn't eaten some of his words yet.

rustbucket732
23rd Sep 2001, 03:28
Well I live and work in Canada, but am British. What I find curious is probably about 25% or so of Canadians ask me "Are you Australian?" when querying my nationaility.. funny thing is when I meet some Oz/Kiwi guys, I also sometimes mistake them for being English.
The accents are VERY similar.

Velvet
23rd Sep 2001, 05:10
Shesshshsh rustbucket, you've been away too long.


Oz / kiwi / English - accents sound alike - you've got to be kidding.

No English person thinks sex comes after five (after ten maybe).

Self Loading Freight
23rd Sep 2001, 10:09
I quite like the State Flag of Hawaii, though. Quite the most tasteful of the fifty...

R

AA SLF
23rd Sep 2001, 10:41
Rollingthunder -

You commented as follows:
"I see AA SLF hasn't eaten some of his words yet."

I assume your comment was directed to the horrendous event that occured on Sep-11 in NYC and my comment about "ugly Americans" ie- NYC citizens.

I do not believe I have any reaason to change my words at all. They expressed my feelings then about the "manner, style, bearing" of citizens of NYC based upon various trips there as well as having met many folks from there in my life. I still hold this belief even now.

Do I have HUGH sympathy for NYC citizens over the WTC terrorism event? YES, my heart breaks for those folks. They did nothing to deserve that event. They are truly "innocents" in this whole mess. If I could change the world then I would change it so that event sis NOT happen!!

But NYC citizens have the "attitude" that I commented upon because they are a very tough bunch of people (that will be one of their characteristics that will help them come through this mess). They will remain "tough", perhaps even tougher in the future because they have had this happen to them. If I live another twenty (20) years I would probably still find NYC citizens to have remained the same. They are what they are just as Texans are what they are. Our local - repeat - local cultures have molded us and we are not likely to change.

My sympathy for what happened to NYC citizens is immense - but my feelings about their "style" has no connection to my heartbreak over their loss. Just two seperate things.

dAAvid -

heloplt
25th Sep 2001, 08:55
What can you expect from a race of people that tried to make salt water tea? As Hogwash so accurately pointed out....with as many uncles as I had in England during WWII, I known some of you must be my cousins...maybe once removed!

It is true....what you Brits said about us during the war...."being oversexed, over paid, and over here!" But for some reason, I have never heard you repeat what the Yanks said about the Brits during that same war..."undersexed, underpaid, and under Eisenhower!"

But on a serious note, please remember the heroes aboard Flight 93 that crashed in Pennsylvania......they were Americans. They were willing to defend other Americans no matter the cost to themselves. They are also symbols of what we are talking about here...I am proud of them and those like them....God Bless'em!

If you are going to take a measure of a man...take a full measure!

Send Clowns
26th Sep 2001, 02:37
Well, I think that most of the world was impressed by the behaviour of the American people involved in this incident. The vast majority of those on the ground in NY responded very well, and appropriately, as did their mayor. Be proud to be an American.

ST1
26th Sep 2001, 03:30
America has finally declared war on terrorists and those who harbour them. Good timimg seing as they supported and harboured the IRA for many years?

Steepclimb
27th Sep 2001, 19:55
ST1 I respectfully suggest you withdraw that statement because A. It's a lie. and B. It demonstrates your appalling ignorance and insensitivity.
If you disagree with me, please tell us why. But at the moment you look like a complete moron. Sorry to be so personal.
Oh, and an apolgy might be in order from you.

Tricky Woo
27th Sep 2001, 20:46
No aid from Noraid?

HOVIS
27th Sep 2001, 23:27
Steepclimb,

If you have never heard of the connection between IRA funding and America(especially New York by the way)then it just underlines what has already been highlighted on this thread.
If you bury your head in the sand sooner or later some one kicks you up the ar*e!

No offence intended, personally I love the place. I just wish the people would educate themselves to include the rest of the world.

SPRINTING RABBIT
28th Sep 2001, 02:01
Eboy,
Firstly good luck and chin up in finding your friend.
Secondly, you live in an amazing, but slightly surreal country.
I have spent years visiting the states and had mixed opinions until this year, when I decided to live here. Now after living and studying in Florida (not the most typical US State....if there is one!) for over 8 months, I have a few observations for you and the others reading these humble scribblings.
To start with, you are a very friendly bunch of people and certainly more so than your average Brit. That said, alot of this comes from your level of confidence and Brits do tend to be quite reserved when it comes to strangers.
Yes you do chill your beer too much, but it does distinguish it from p*$$!
One definite misconception I have read on this post, is that the US have a more advanced level of technology and innovation than Europe or indeed the rest of the 'Western' World.
Not true in my eyes thats for sure. For example.....NO toasters(the word barely exists), NO electric kettles, NO front loading washing machines, very limited and backward selection of mobile phones(cellphones to you guys), 'new' TVs and videos that came off our shelves in the UK years ago.....the list goes on.
However, when it comes to general aviation, you lot have it sorted, with even the smallest airfield having weather computers, toilets and a coke machine......and with no landing fees....hurrah!
After all is said and done, it has its good points, but I am still returning to the UK for good next month. Its not for everyones tastes and I miss real ale!
......but yes I will probably come back to visit some of your more stunning natural areas, such as New England (I like the sound of that place!) in the Fall and of course I couldnt miss out on Vegas! :cool:

Steepclimb
28th Sep 2001, 03:22
Oh dear I so hate to be a pedant, ST1, Hovis and Tricky woo but ST1 said 'America' not Americans.
The US government never supported them, unofficially or otherwise. Some misguided Americans did, a small difference, don't you think?
Following your perverse logic, fundraisers which were held in London means they were supported by Britain.
My original request still stands.

Buckred
28th Sep 2001, 08:14
Fair go guy's! I spent 2 years in Europe doing the Ausie adult aprenticeship thing.

While over there I had the best 2 years of my life and made many wonderful friends!

Unfortunately an insular attitude towards the outside world was demonstrated in every country I visited and when I returned home I was horrified to see Australians had similar attitudes.

Granted Americans on 2 week tours irritated me, but 2 weeks was never enough time to get past making comparasins and absorbe the wonderful coulture every country has to offer.

The only way to help America change is to welcome them with open arms and invite them to the pub or a dinner party or 2! They are wonderful people just give them a chance!

Oh I am still itching to do more travelling and have never made it to the American continent, if anyone knows how I can get work over there(obviosly not flying) please give me yell on [email protected] Its a long shot but if you don't ask you don't get!

[ 29 September 2001: Message edited by: Buckred ]

HOVIS
29th Sep 2001, 21:35
Yes Steepclimb you are being pedantic. If you re-read the original text, ST1 refers to america but then goes on to say "THEY" not "IT" supported they ira for years.

How's that for splitting hairs??

Flintstone
29th Sep 2001, 22:21
Hovis. I hereby appoint you Chief Hairsplitter.

Dr Syn. Going waaaayyyy back in to this thread (sorry, I just got to it) why would Dubya want to pander to illegal immigrants in the hope of gaining their vote?

If they're illegal surely they wouldn't have one?

PPRuNe Pop
30th Sep 2001, 13:15
This particular thread will be closed shortly - to save the server from going into reverse. In fact, might as well do it now. But do feel free to start another.

_____________________________________________

America? Wonderful country and superb people. I have been there regularly since 1977, the last time was March this year and I shall be going again in April. Shouda taken the plunge in '78 and moved there. I had the chance and decided against. A bloody stupid decision was that! :mad:

[ 30 September 2001: Message edited by: PPRuNe Pop ]