Schumacher to race Typhoon

[Flopster]

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From landings.com:

Seemingly unbeatable in formula one, six-times world champion Michael Schumacher will on Thursday test his speeding skills against a supersonic jet fighter at an Italian military airbase.

Schumacher, at the wheel of his Ferrari F2003-GA, will take on the brand-new Eurofighter Typhoon hunter-bomber in two straight-line speed contests down the runway of the Grosseto base in central Italy.

In theory, there should be no contest. The F2003-GA can reach a maximum speed of up to 400kph while the Eurofighter can speed at almost 2 450kph, aviation officials say.

But the duel has been designed to provide maximum equilibrium between the two contestants, meaning the outcome of the contest will be hard to call.

The first race, which will take place over a 500m course, is likely to favour Ferrari's superior acceleration. The second, over a 1 500m track, should provide an advantage to the Eurofighter.

"We have organised things so that the race may be as balanced as possible, with one race that should, in theory, favour the aircraft and the other favouring the Ferrari," said Italian air force General Sandro Ferracuti.

"In any case, both machines tend to enhance the individual skills of their pilots," Ferracuti said.

Italian astronaut and test pilot Maurizio Cheli will pilot the Eurofighter, which was born out of a collaboration between Italy, Germany, Britain and Spain.

A similar contest took place in 1981, when Canada's Gilles Villeneuve and his Ferrari 126 CK turbo beat a F-104 jet fighter over a 1km race at Istrana airport in northern Italy.

Fifty years earlier, in 1931, however, Italian motor racing legend Tazio Nuvolari and his Alfa Romeo 2300 had to concede defeat against a biplane.

That same duel will be replicated on Thursday. But this time, it will be Schumacher at the wheel. -- Sapa-DPA

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Bets, anyone?

[hairyclameater]

Its been doen loads of times before with varying machinery- I remember a RAF F4J racing a TVR at Wattisham and a German F4F v a drag bike and a boosted ac cobra at Hopsten. Televised races have also been shot like the Jaguar v Jaguar on Top Gear and a SHAR v something or other recently.

Most beefed up vehicles will leave the jet standing for a hundred metres or so. Although Typhoon has got wicked acceleration, if its recent exploits are anything to go by the fin will fall off or the u/c collapse before it reaches 100 mph. Or it will go u/s on the ramp.

[MadsDad]

A friend of mine was present at the TVR v F3 event and told us about it afterwards. Apparently the TVR (a 4.2 litre Chimera as I recall) led for the first few hundred yards (no surprise there, it is about 24 tons lighter) and at about 140 mph the two were pretty well level. Just after that the TVR ran out of speed while, as he put it, 'the F3 lifted off and kept going'.

He also didn't mention what effect the F3 afterburners had on the paintwork of the Chimera.

[G-KEST]

If Typhoon beats Schumacher then it will probably be the only victory it will ever get since it is virtually obsolete in terms of what UK defence needs are these days. Or am I just a s**t stirring geriatric old fart who can remember the days when OR's were drafted by guys who did not spend their entire service lives regarding their navels. When will we ever learn ( times two )?

[FFP]

There's always one who has to get in a jibe about EFA !!!

[Maple 01]

Saw a Fitter run against a a drag-car at Finnow in 91, the Sukhoi lost:( , still, got a nice 'afterburner' sun tan on my left side.....

Regards

-Nick

[Ex Douglas Driver]

This is what we did with the A4 vs the then new Porsche GT3 in '99.
By way of thanks we were given a Porsche for the weekend. The end result: one blown clutch on the Turbo Carrera 4 after too many attempts to wheel spin off the line, and one overheated engine on the Boxster S because the radiator cap hadn't been fully tightened.


GT3 is New "Top Gun"

Nowra. Porsche's new road and track 911 GT3 has already established itself as a 'Top Gun' in Australia, two months before Australian customers sample its 302km/h performance.
Answering a challenge by members of the crack Royal New Zealand Air Force No 2 Squadron, Porsche Cars Australia sent GT-Production champion Peter Fitzgerald and the country's first GT3 for a 'take no prisoners race over 400 metres against the Kiwis' frontline A4 Skyhawk fighter/bomber at their Nowra, NSW base.
Appropriately, the shoot-out took place at 'High Noon', with Fitzgerald and Squadron Leader Steve Alderton in the Skyhawk flagged off from a standing start by other squadron pilots.

While the A4 Skyhawk got the initial jump on the Porsche, Fitzgerald powered back into contention in the 360HP GT3, reaching nearly 200km/h to take a car's length victory at the end of the 400 metres. After taking off, the aircraft performed two spectacular 'touch and go' landings where the aircraft touched the runway next to the Porsche, before immediately taking off again. This was followed by two near supersonic low fly-pasts over the GT3, prior to landing.

This must be of comfort for a number of drivers planning to campaign the GT3 next year in Targa Tasmania, the Australian Porsche Cup and the Australian GT-Production Championship.

For the record, the GT3 sprints from 0 - 100km/h in 4.8 seconds and 0 - 200km/h in 15.8 seconds, according to Porsche factory figures. So fast, you almost need a pilot 's licence to drive it. But demand looks like out-stripping supply at its Australian price of $225,000.

By comparison, the A4 Skyhawk develops 9300lb. of thrust, has a maximum speed of 1142km/h and costs around $12 million.
But while you can specify your GT3 in a choice of four straight and four metallic colours, there is just one offered with the Skyhawk:

[ehwatezedoing]

In the video link they call this "F-14 vs F1" but it´s:


:ok: F-18 versus Indy car (http://bitoffun.com/Vids/F14_vs_F1car.mpg) :ok:

The american version.

[witchdoctor]

Now if it were a Brit pilot, then it would be a simple question of letting Schumy burn off down the track and then launching an ASRAAM up his arshole as is customary in a duel with Jerry. Then old Biggles can gently trundle down the runway without spilling his G&T or messing up his 'tache.

[Flap62]

Having back-seated in quite a few F type things I have found that nothing gets off the line like a GR7 and looking at the thrust/weight the Typhoon should be quite close. From that I would guess that the Typhoon should just about hold it to 150ish then blow its socks off.

When I was bored one day and timed my HUD video in a GR7 I seem to recall figures of (in MPH) 0-60 in 2.8sec, 0-100 in 4.8 sec, 0-150 in 7 sec, 0-200 (getting a bit tricky keeping it on the ground by this stage!) in 9.9 secs.

[Flopster]

Seem to remember seeing somewhere, that your average F1 will do 0 to 200 and back to 0 in less than 10 seconds ..... and the braking distance was just short of 50 meters :ooh: Well, with around 900 horses to burn and less than 600 kgs of weigth to propel, and massive carbon fibre discs it's bound start-stop in a way that'll make your eyes pop out of their sockets :E

[Flap62]

Using my very rusty school-boy maths, stopping from 200 mph to 0 in less than 50m equates to an average decell of just over 60G !! (It's entirely possible of course that I got a decimal point in the wrong place!!)
They're good, but they're not that good !

[Flopster]

Take your word for it; my memory is getting quite rusty.

Watched them coming down the straight at Monza last year, breezing by at 320+ km/h. Most hit the brakes just short of the 100 meter mark, before entering the chicane. Dunno what kind of speed they'll be doing there, rough guess around 70-90 km/h. Wonder how many G's these guys are pulling ....

[Smoketoomuch]

F1 car will produce about 4g laterally when cornering or braking - less when accelerating as its only 2 wheel-drive. Tyres are the limiter and aren't quite as 'sticky' as they used to be after the regs were changed so maybe the figures are a bit less now. 100mph to 0 in about 3 secs iirc.

[tu chan go]

So, let me get this straight.

Typhoon is late and over-budget yet they have the time and money to race down a runway and try to beat a sausage-eater in an Italian car.

Don't they have anything else to do.... like flight trials or something?

PS Isn't Typhoon grounded at the moment? If it is, that will seriously affect the outcome of this "trial"!!!!

[John Farley]

I think it is a terrible waste of a good car and driver.

[emitex]

The results are in: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3309943.stm

[smartman]

I think it's a terrible waste of everything - a once 'good idea' that has so oft-been repeated as to make it a now mindless and counter-productive PR exercise. But then itwas in Italy, and was Ferrari -----------

[Fox_4]

What a great capability test.

Where is the money for flight testing vs PR stunts I wonder

Rubbish

[Ian Corrigible]

Any truth to the rumor that they actually had to run this stunt twice, after Schumie tried to ram the Eurofighter off the runway on the first attempt.....?

I/C:}

[Letsby Avenue]

Actually they had to run it three times; the first run was over six hundred metres and the Ferrari won by 0.2s! Best of three then! with the distance increased to 900m; ah, that's better - Bit like EU democracy really, just keep changing the rules and re-run the exercise until the desired result is obtained...:rolleyes:

[Watchoutbelow]

Would the wet surface have favoured the Typhoon?
How difficult would it be for the pilot to keep the aircraft on the ground while accelerating after its take off speed?

[Dani]

The rain has had definetly the biggest impact on the outcome of the race. Performance of a formula one car is seriously downgraded on wet surface - maybe even the desired gum remains was missing on the taxi/runway -, while a jet has the same accelleration (depending on type even better).
If you remember the scientific formula from your high school you know that breaking coefficient (and thus accelleration) is about 5 times better on dry surface, and grip force is even changing per square. So if Schumacher won on 600 m there is a serious chance that he might also win on 800 or even 1000 m.

[blandford50]

It would have been much more of a 'challenge' to have put Schumie in the Typhoon (alone), and Cheli wellying the car. Then next season's F1 would be interesting once more.

I saw the news report of the non-event on TV. As usual, it appeared to be loaded in Schumie's favour; I may be mistaken but it appeared he had a run start.

The Typhoon may be out of date, but it's much better looking than any F1 car.

Also watched Nicholson's programme about the SAAB Gripen on a cable TV channel. What an aeroplane! How on Earth did Sweden manage to develop that on their own, when GROUPS of much larger European countries cannot put together an up-to-date Eurofighter in less than 20 years? Mystery.

[Flopster]

Because Sweden/SAAB has a long history of designing and building their own jets, as a consquence of being a neutral. The Draken and Vigen springs to mind. They are very technological savyy, and perhaps most important of all, built it to the specifications of one airforce, not a conglomorate of several forces each pulling in their own direction, and each with their own political agenda. Not sure about the numbers, but belive the Royal Swedish Airforce has bought around 230 copies of the jet. The Chechs bought a batch, but postponed the order following the 2002 floodings. I belive the only other export customer to date is SA. Also belive BAe is somehow involved in marketing the export variant.

Mate of mine who drives F-16(MLU) for the RDAF was treated to a backseat ride on a JA39B. He would happily discard his General Dynamics for a SAAB ....

The JA39C is supposedly one mean 4th generation fighter, and it's in production - not a fancy concept on paper. Can do today what the Rafael / Typhoon are supposedly able to do in 3 - 5 years time. We should all buy SAABs :ok:

[RRAAMJET]

Enjoyed this thread - thanks for the vid. link, BTW.

Here's a shocker: on a maintenance test flight recently, we had to do a full pwr t/o in a Boeing 757, so we decided to hold it on the brakes to about 1.3 EPR before release and time the accel on the g/s readout from GPS. Shaking like a schoolkid in M. Jackson's Neverland, it was...

0-60 kts in 6.2 secs on a digital stopwatch - not bad for a TRUCK.

So, I'm lucky enough to be the owner of a Ferrari; I decide to check out the numbers....
My 308QV will do 0-66mph in just under 7 secs, and that's caning it at 7500rpm; it has no traction control, being mid-80's vintage.

Makes the 757 look pretty impressive, eh?
(It has a pwr/wt ratio of nearly .5/1.0 at test wts).

Agree about the Gripen - ahead of it's time...bit of a wobbly test program, though. I'd rather have my Ferrari than a Saab! ;)

[hairyclameater]

"My 308QV will do 0-66mph in just under 7 secs,"

Good grief my Mondeo will do that!! and it only cost me £17k!

So what have we learned?? absolutely sweet foxtrot alpha

Same as every time - car has initial burst over a few hundred feet/yards/metres before the jet takes over.blah blah blah

BAe have had a large interest in the Gripen 'cos they new ages ago that Typhoon would be way behind schedule/over budget and the Gripen could be a far more attractive export success than the over priced, over tasked blunderfighter.Quite remarkable far-sightedness for such a sloth-like company.
Plus the pedigree of own-grown combat a/c has always proved to be a winner for Sweden and provided limited exports - why no one has bought second hand Viggens is beyond me!- what a machine!

[RRAAMJET]

Yup, modern cars have come a long way! Back in it's day, 0-60 in 5.7 was considered specfarkin'tacular, but now the 308 has aged just a wee bit....(and it's Veglia speedo is hopeless, so you're guessing what speeding ticket size you're about to get). :(
Remember when the XR3 was considered fast, at about 8.5 secs? The 308 is the same era....(So is the 757, actually).

[Echo 5]

For those of you who may be interested Channel 5 plan to show the film coverage of the race on 5th Gear this evening (05/04/04) at 20:30 hours.
If it doesn't happen talk to CH5 not me.

E5:D

[Aileron Roll]

All good fun

...... did they offer MS a blast in the back of the jet ?