Large airports to visit...

[Pilot16]

Do PPLs visit larger airports such as Birmingham, Manchester or Luton?

As a fairly new PPL, my plan is to visit smaller airfields first, Shoreham/Manston/Lashendan and then fly into some of the larger ones for experience e.g. Birmingham.

I dont hear many PPLs talking about flying to large airports, so it would be interesting to hear what people have to say in response to my post :)

Regards.

[CBLong]

You may be in for a surprise if you consider Manston and Lashenden to both be "small" fields... I trained at Manston and it's huge!! But it's not enormously busy, which is what you probably meant. You may well find yourself being told to orbit while the DC-8 on 8 mile final lands, though, and it certainly won't test your ability to get into a short field... :)

cbl.

[Evo]

I went in to Bournemouth on my QXC - that counts as big for someone who is used to flying from a field in Sussex. I found it very easy, much easier in fact than going to another small airfield. At somewhere big you just turn up at a VRP and they tell you what you have to do - you just have to do as you're told and then land the thing. Much easier than going to somewhere like Compton Abbas or Popham for the first time :)

Would I go again? No. Only just finished paying off the landing fee from last time ;)

[bar shaker]

The cost of landing at international airports is what puts most people off.

Manston is one of the biggest runways in the UK, so should satisfy some urges.

Without question, Lashenden (Headcorn) is the friendliest GA field in the SE and my favourite field to fly to. Jamie is always helpful and cheerful, always plenty going on and always some nice aircraft to see. Good for lunch too.

Southend is also good and both of these two are good points to start a channel crossing from.

Add North Weald to your list too. Again very friendly, cheap landing fees and good bacon sarnies. Jets to watch too. In fact, go there while you can, as its the subject of a planning inquiry at the moment and we may lose it forever.

[FlyingForFun]

Much easier/cheaper to go to the US if you want to fly into "big" (i.e. busy) airports. You'll be welcome at almost any airport in the country in just about anything which can fly, with no prior warning at all, and very rarely any landing fees :ok:

As for UK/Europe, if you want to mix it with the big stuff, have a look at RyanAir's routes - they tend to fly into airports which don't charge massive landing fees, and if they don't have to pay massive landing fees for their B737s then the chances are that landing your PA28 there will be almost affordable too.

FFF
-----------

[Fly Stimulator]

Pilot16,

Better start saving now if you plan to go to Luton!

A friend of mine had to land there a couple of months ago to pay the VAT on his new aircraft. He was only there for an hour or so but had to pay about £250 in landing and handling fees.

PPLs certainly can and do visit large airports. The same chap flies his SEP aircraft into Schiphol, Brussels, Dublin etc., but again, the costs are out of range for most purely recreational fliers.

Some of the regional airports in France are good value though.

[Genghis the Engineer]

I'd suggest you'd be better off exposing yourself to some of the friendly small airfields - Compton Abbas, Popham, White Waltham should all be within a couple of hours flight from you.

If you want big and friendly, but not too expensive, try Southend.

G

[FNG]

I tend to agree with Genghis, but an additional option could be Norwich, which offers something of a half way house between a large GA field and a larger airport. It doesn't have any class D airspace to play in, but you do get to join in with the odd airliner, and on the ground you get the whole marshalling to parking space, coach to take you the 15 yards to the terminal, security blokes with more gold bars than a cabair instructor, 19 different radio frequencies to talk to before you get to the runway, and taxiways so long that you run out of fuel at the hold kind of thang, which, if you are in the mood, is nice. Seriously, it's maybe worth a visit, there's some interesting coastline nearby (though watch out for pointy military things on weekdays) and if you hate it, you could always refresh yourself on the way back at somewhere small and charming like Old Buckenham or Andrewsfield.

[360BakTrak]

I flew into Alicante a couple of years back, which is about the size of Gatwick.
2 landings and a weeks parking came to the grand total of............wait for it...................LESS THAN A TENNER!!!!!!!!!!!
Now THATS a bargain! Shame large airports in the UK dont have similar charges...although I can see why they discourage GA.:\

[QNH 1013]

In a word, yes. I have flown a 65hp PFA hand-swung aircraft into Birmingham, Leeds-Bradford, Bournemouth, and a few other large places I can't recall offhand. It can be surprisingly cheap, or horribly expensive depending on how / when you do it. I have also enquired and used Manchester (Ringway) as an alternate when flying to Barton on Business.

Tips:

Don't go on your own the first time if you have limited experience of large airports and/or full ATC. Get someone who is very comfortable with the whole thing to go with you first.

Make sure you have an up-to-date airfield layout to hand, or you will not know how to taxi to the holding points directed. If in doubt, stop and ask again.

Find out exactly how much the landing fee and handling will be in advance. Some airfields, eg Manchester and now Birmingham, charge very high landing / departure fees at peak times. You need to know this.

Know your marshalling signals perfectly, and look out for marshallers to park you on the apron.

Try and find a flying club if there is one at the airfield and ask them all about it. Sometimes you can avoid handling and parking charges by "visiting" them.

Find out the booking-out procedure. Some airfields (eg Birmingham) no longer allow booking out over the radio.

If you have to use compulsary handling, find out what you can get for it. Sometimes they will drive you a few miles to and from your destination for no extra charge. If this saves two taxi fares, it can make the handling suddenly seem good value.

If I'm really uncertain about something, I ring ATC, explain what I want to do, and ask if it's ok. I did this before arriving at EGBB in a PFA taildragger with no transponder and just a battery radio. They suggested an arrival time when there would be no problem.

Don't upset anyone.

Like most things in aviation, its very straightforward when you have done it a few times. When you have decided where to go for the first time, post an enquiry on pprune and you will probably find the locals can give you much more specific tips.

Good Luck ! Go for it.

[capt.sparrow]

I fly into Birmingham fairly regularly and its well worth a visit. May i first point out that Pooleys flight guide has it all wrong about peak charges: there aren't any - so if you want to fly in at rush hour then so be it, just be prepared to orbit a few times till they can fit you in. Also landing fees aren't bad too - for a light single it was nine pounds something, plus a one pound fifty nav charge for the boys and girls in the tower. Now thats a bargain for full ATC in class D, ndb, ILS etc airfield. I've paid more at a grass strip with no radio! Obviously you have to pay handling but for me I got a two way trip to the nec, full weather and notam brief, flight planning and filing etc and free coffee! Handling was twenty three quid - almost as much as the taxi would have cost me - I look at it this way - if i'm paying hundreds for the flying anyway whats a few extra quid to fly somewhere more interesting/challenging?

[englishal]

I flew into Edinburgh a while back, and it cost me £90 for the privilege of staying over night......

Oban cost me a tenner the following night, and the boys there were kind enough to bring us a cup of tea, followed by BEER ! (after we decided we coun't be arsed to fly anywhere else that day of course :D ). Thats what I call good value.

EA

[Timothy]

I would suggest Prestwick as a good starting point. Very much a "big airport" (I had a 747 up my chuff this evening) but reasonably GA friendly and very cheap indeed if (AND ONLY IF) you are invited as a visitor to (one of?) the club(s?). I paid a tenner this evening for Radar/ILS and night landing in an Aztec, a quarter of what Cumbernauld would have charged for zero facilities and an A/G service.

However, if you let the official handling agent get their claws into you, you could pay £84.50 for exactly the same thing.

W

[big.al]

I can agree with FNG about Norwich. Not exactly busy but a real 'airport' nonetheless, with the odd 737/757, plenty of J31s etc, full ATC and probably the lowest landing fee of any airport that size in the UK. I paid a tenner (albeit a year ago) for a C150, and will definately be going back in our group 172 sometime.

A very friendly welcome there; having asked a few questions on this forum before my visit, I was greeted by 'regards to big.Al' from the Tower upon my departure before handover to Approach (niknak - was that you..?). I only wish all 'airports' were as welcoming to GA. I am sure there are others like this also (as yet I haven't had the time to try out many) but for pure costs and a warm welcome it may be tough to beat.

However if you don't like the idea of the full 'airport' thing, having to go through to Departures, having your baggage scanned and walking through the metal detector etc, then maybe it would not be suitable. There's no direct way to get back Airside without a security person to open the door for you, so I heeded previous advice of taking my licence with me to show I was indeed 'aircrew'. It was bit weird being let out the door and walking past 200 pax awaiting their Britannia 757 to Ibiza back to the tiny 'plane parked on practically the next stand!

[knobbygb]

The biggest place I've been in the UK is East Midlands. Very reasonable landing/handling fee combined was £10.58 although I believe it's gone up somewhat since last year. That got me parking on the main apron (http://www.pbase.com/image/6190350) and a minibus ride to the tower and back. There's also a club on the field which would be even cheaper to 'visit'.

OK, so it's not a huge airport, but I sat holding for 20 minutes to depart and watched 7 or 8 big jets come and go, so it's not exactly dead either. Easyjet, BmiBaby, plus all the charters in the summer, and freight traffic in the evenings. The novelty of holding/orbiting etc. kind of wears off after about the second time though.

It's no big deal going to these places, but follow what QNH1013 says and know what you're talking about/where you're going. Have all the charts to hand including taxiway numbering/apron parking spaces etc. They are all available in PDF format in the online AIP.

You could also try Coventry, which doesn't have much/any commercial pax traffic but is still quite busy.

[flyingwelshman]

:) I completed my trainign at East Midlands, and after starting it at Glenrothers (v. small) it was a bit of a culture shock!

However, i would say that it is excellent to learn to/ fly into/outoff a large airport.

If you use East Mids always request taxi to one of the two clubs (DONAIR/ East Mids Flying School) which are away from the main area and at least one of them provides free coffee.

Avoid peak times (8am/4-5:30pm) otherwise you could find yourself holding over the cooling towers at Kegworth for 30mins.

Lots of people learn to fly there so its no supprise to share the circuit with other C150/PA28 types.

Plus, I have always found Air Traffic to be great (some are instructors at the clubs), so dont be afraid to ask for any help/ab normal requests.

FW

[Wycombe]

....I was lucky to start my flying training at a large Military base in Oxfordshire, UK. Gave some great experiences, such as:

- established 2-way visual with a C130 in the circuit, who then overtook our PA28 going downwind
- tightened our circuit in front of an L1011 on the ILS, who reduced speed early to let us go first!
- sat at the runway intersection (mid-point) whilst VC10's executed "rollers" (mil terminology!) right in front of us.

Unfortunately, as others have said, recent experience of "big" airports has been very limited, due to charges - E. Mids was the last one for me a couple of years ago. Think it cost us about £40 for a couple of hours stop.

[Dave Gittins]

If you want the cheapest visit to a Big airport you have to fly OUT .... for the cheapest way to do it, you have to use the local, club or school.

I trained at Luton so got really used to the place, even flying circuits between the Boeings there when it was quiet. (and paying £2.00 per minute to orbit Eric Morecambe's favourite football, ground when it wasn't !!)

The local school gets his landings at about £15.00 each but as has been said, any non-resident visitor has to pay handling and the full 9 yards and gets a bill of about £250.00. Coventry is OK, you even get the man with table tennis bats thrown in for about 12 quid and there's usually an Electra or DC or something to dodge.

The best is always overseas - which is a huge pity. I flew in Crete, from Heraklion's Int airport in a locally hired 152 this year, dunno what the fees were but the all up hourly rate was about the same as the UK. (The 152 had a Greek reg which was a thinly disguised ex-Stapleford plane) That included the follow me man giving us a lift for 2 miles to the "GA" apron.

Am off to Tenerife next week and will be flying the 172 there again from TFS for about £140.00 all in. (If it's a Friday there'll be as many Brit airliners there as there will be at Gatwick.) That includes follow me service (why ? oh why ? are you allowed to find the runway on your own when departing, but all flights - even the local instructors - need a "follow me" truck to find the stand ???).

As has been said there are plenty of big but cheap places but what about Goodwood ??? Isn't that the biggest grass runway in the land ??? It seemed massive when I took my first trip there a few weeks ago. Nice spot too.

Edited to improve spelling. [Danny can we have a spell checker for Christmas ?]

[Tralfamadore]

Exeter was pretty good when I went there in March. The landing fee was under a tenner for a Europa (there was no handling fee). It wasn't very busy when I was there but had a couple of small airliners doing there thing to add to the atmosphere.

[Davidt]

Try Cardiff, again get handled by the Flying Club not the commercial agents.

[Flyboater]

Dropped in to Mahon, Menorca a couple of years ago. in a Fuji Incredible value. Landing fee, overnight parking, follow me van, personel carriers to and from met office and terminal building.
All for under a fiver.

[Pilot16]

Hi,

wow, an overwhelming response!!
I have read them all and if I were to respond to them individually I would be here all night!!

Anyway, thanks all for your posts. Very useful, now I know Manston is prety big, and I know what to expect this weekend, if all turns well :ok:

Regards.

PS. Anyone have any say on Leicester Airfield?

[rotorcraig]

PS. Anyone have any say on Leicester Airfield?

Hard runway is big, v.easy to spot from a distance. Grass runway alongside if you prefer that.

Cheap landing fee (paid either £5 or £10 for an R22)

RC

[Edited to remove moan about catering - I've been back a few times since and had some great food & drink]

[Deano777]

Originally Posted By Flyboater
Dropped in to Mahon, Menorca a couple of years ago. in a Fuji Incredible value. Landing fee, overnight parking, follow me van, personel carriers to and from met office and terminal building.
All for under a fiver.


Bloody 'ell, where did you fly to Mahon from? and what equipment did you use? Id love to be able to do that, thats what I call flying :D sorry to go off topic :)

Staying on topic have you tried Bristol International for a large airport to visit? ATC are very helpful, busy times are generally around 4pm-5:30pm when you may have to hold, make sure you get handled by the flying centre there although sometimes all you need is an escort to the flying centre

good luck

Dean.

[G SXTY]

I'd echo the comments about Southend and Norwich - visited both on my QXC, and they're ideal if you want a taster of a 'big' airport (I shared the circuit at Norwich with a KLM F50, and had a 757 land after me).

Useful practice for my first really busy airport - Daytona International. 110kts on final in a C172, with the tower asking if we could keep the speed up a bit more. . . :ooh: No landing fee though!:ok:

[niknak]

.....and in addition to the above, if nothing else, landing a "big" airport will give you an idea of what to expect and what to do if you have to do so as an alternative to your intended destination.

Agreed, G/A does seem to get hammered at some places and not at others, but that should give you an idea of which airport authorities take a balanced view of G/A.
You're always welcome at Norwich, (even if you have to hold off for someone paying a bigger landing fee:} ), or wear raybans to get through security. :E

[ACW 335]

I went into Southampton International earlier on this year - I went dual because I was still SPL. I have to say it was good experience to fly into however at £25 for a landing fee it was costly. Nice to practise RT with.. but the fact they made me backtrack up the WHOLE entire runway was not funny (so that's ATC for ya!)
I flew into Manston for my QXC which was good fun (except for the French controller!) - the club TG Aviation is nice and friendly - much more so that Southampton which to get a cuppa coffee/tea/food you have to sit in arrivals with everyone else.

If you want a larger airport - go somewhere like manston....much more enjoyable! (As an SEP you are also a bit :mad: if you get and EFATO at southampton or a London airport liky City!)

[andyb79]

if you fancy venturing a bit further north prestwick is a good bet.
Not long got its class D and has plenty of heavy traffic, and the runways to match (as they say its an experiance landing at these places) to top it all the landing fees are pretty cheap (£12 when i was last there a few months ago)

[dmjw01]

Another place to try if you want a nice big runway that's GA-friendly is Filton. Nearly as long as Manston, but even WIDER! Landing fee was something like £15-£20 (memory's not what it used to be...), but the price of avgas was very good so if you fill up then it offsets the landing fee. Much closer to the centre of Bristol than Bristol Int itself.

[javelin]

Across in Florida last year, my mate wanted to go to a 'big' airport - I suggested Tampa - he quaked, I said OK, we will go to Lakeland first, so we did ! Got to Lakeland from Zephyrhills, had coffee, chatted with the ATC bloke, said we wanted to go to Tampa, he put us through on the phone. Guy on radar at Tampa said, call us approaching the zone, no problems expected. we got airborne, called them, they vectored us onto 36R in a 172, 737 on approach to 36L, we landed, they asked for our intentions, I said, return to Z Hills please, we taxied into position and took off.

Now then, there were no charges, they were extremely helpful and friendly, it was no hassle for my low time PPL friend - his confidence went up a lot, I had a good day out and we both enjoyed ourselves. Now why can't that happen over here ?

[24Right]

Try Humberside - OK, not enormous, but at busy times you'll mix it with ATPs and 737s as well as Citations, Kingairs and the like. Proper ATC, NDB, ILS and the cafeteria is OK (if a rather long walk). Last time I was there, including two instrument approaches it cost around £12.