Rothmans Aerobatic Team (& Others)

[Zlin526]

Just flicking through some old pictures from UK displays in the early 70's.

Lots of Pictures of the Rothmans aerobatic team in their Stampes and Pitts S-2As. Does anyone know what happened to all the pilots?

I realise that aces such as Manx Kelly, Neil Williams and David Perrin are sadly no longer with us, but all the other guys who were with the team for only a few seasons and then disappeared into oblivion..where did they go to?

I did have a list of Rothmans pilots, but cant find it anywhere..

And what happened to Phil Symmans from the Marlboro team in the 80's?

[Aerohack]

If memory serves the original Stampe four were Manx, Neil, Iain Weston and Ray Hoggarth. Then there was Mike Findlay, who went off to grow grapes in France, Nick Daniel I remember as commentator/ferry pilot at one time, Barry Tempest and Brian Lecomber were also team members. Ah, fond (if fading) memories!

[Stampe]

Complete list would be very interesting Zlin!! one of my colleagues died this year after an illness and sadly shortly before his scheduled retirement I believe he was a member of the team for a period.Your spending a lot of time on here recently Zlin must be the quiet season !!hope you are well?.

[Zlin526]

Stampe,

Yes, must get out a bit more...Roll on the summer again :ok:

I've got the complete listing somewhere, but finding it???

All the best

Z

[hairyclameater]

Heres a few;

1972 (Stampes) - Manx Kelly,Iain Weston(ex RAF College),Mike Findlay(ex RAF Qns Flt), Andrew White(ex Hunter and Sabre instructor), Nick Daniel was commentator/spare a/c

1973 (Change to Pitts) - as above

1976 No1 Colin Woods(ex RAF Vulcans, instructor and Poachers), No2 Graham Rutson (ex RAF instructor and RAFG Canberras), No3 Bob Thompson (ex RAF instructor - CFS,Gemini Pair and Swords JP teams -still current display pilot??), No4 Dave Perrin, Comm/spare was Pete Marsden

1980 (last season?) No1 Marcus Edwards,Brian Lecomber, John McClean,Rod Rea

Dave Perrin - what a talent! in 1976, at 22 the youngest aerobatic team member and won 2 years of Air Sqn aerobatic tropies.It would appear that we have lost him? -any details when?

Marcus Edwards - ex RN , instrumental in bringing the Sea Vixen back on the display circuit, his name now wiped from the cockpit rails of the great beast because of that awful Red Bull paint job ! Ugh ! get rid now!!!!!!
He wanted it restored in 899's colours -I bet hes turning in his grave.

[treadigraph]

David Perrin was killed whilst a passenger in an Alouette filming "High Road to China". As I recall from a recent article about Tony Bianchi, they had probs with a Stampe used in the film; David and Tony Bianchi were offered a lift back to base, Dave accepted, Tony stayed behind to fix the Stampe. The Alouette collided with cables while flying low... Think it was around 1982? Sad, sad, sad...

Think Brendan O'Brien also flew the spare/commentated for a season or two when they had the Pitts. (Plural of Pitts?)

[Stampe]

Sadly it was Colin Woods who died this year after shortish but nasty illness bravely born and tragically shortly before a well earnt retirement.I have many happy memories of being Colins co-pilot especially remembering dodging CBs with him in the Caribbean!!.I,m priveleged to have worked ,flown and learnt from guys of the calibre and background of Colin.His good humour and,practical approach and stories of his aerobatic days are fondly remembered.A gentleman in every way.He told me he gave up display flying because no matter how good it had an "inevitable ending" sad but true words which I feel reflected his wisdom on many things.On a lighter note watched a video of the Skyhawks Fournier aerobatic duo at a display at Rochester many years ago by Brendan and colleague, simply amazing best airshow act I have ever seen.So much skill, so few horsepower!! Will we ever see the likes of it again.Rose tinted specs but a golden era viewed from todays point and squirt aerobatics.:ok:

[Aerohack]

<<Skyhawks Fournier aerobatic duo at a display at Rochester many years ago by Brendan and colleague, simply amazing best airshow act I have ever seen. Will we ever see the likes of it again.>>

Treadders and I have expressed this very sentiment several times on various threads here. Never bettered.

Anyone recall who was flying the Rothmans Pitts 'BAEA which crashed after take-off at Sywell in 1976? My old chum and colleague Cliff Barnett — Flight International's General Aviation editor — was the passenger, and badly injured. He recovered, but tragically was later to die in a midair over Hanover during a photo shoot.

[Boss Raptor]

Rod Rea has been a 146 TRI at TNT for many years

[InFinRetirement]

Stampe.

Brendan's "colleague" was either Mike Dentith(?) or John Taylor. You remember now? They were good. But just a tad too close to the ground for my liking but I always followed Neil Williams best advice. "When doing aeros, the most useless air is that above you."

Anyway, as I got older I realised I WANTED to get older! ;)

[treadigraph]

It was John Taylor. I seem to recall the pair of them arriving at West Malling and one of the Fourniers suffered a gear collapse... probably just a minor inconvience...! And B O'B turning up at Redhill sans Taylor who, if memory serves, had lost the engine while getting airborne from Biggin. Brendan was needed for the commentary at Redhill! Ah, indeed, the Skyhawks... And as the film music thread says, accompanied by Pink Floyd... Youare right IFR, they did wind up close to the ground in the finale. Seem to recall they started high and gradually descended to maintain the pace on the available HP.

I recall the Rothmans fairly well, but none better than the solo display (G-RKSF?), David Perrin at Biggin Hill in 1981 or '82... I was pushing my bike up the main road past the threshold when the Pitts blasted overhead, inverted and seemingly so close one could catch it in one's outstretched arms. Probably not as at the very least the prop would have gone though the fence, but it might explain the challenged foliage I now sport...!

Brian Lecomber and John Taylor now perform an excellent close formation duo in a pair of Extra 300s if you have yet to see them.

[hairyclameater]

Think the Rothmans team continued until 1980 (with a second team set up in the mid-East due to demand apparently! – pilots anyone??), the solo until 1982. That would tie in with Dave’s untimely death – thanks for the info, very sad. And Colin Woods – RIP.

Thought the solo was G-SPIN?

The 1974 Rothmans were – I.F.Weston, M.D. Findlay, D.H. Mills and Dave Perrin.

I’ll carry on digging through my airshow memorabilia- I’ve got tons of info that may help anyone out whose interested re display pilots etc.

What happened to Phil Meeson??

I'm sure Mike Dentith had a stint with the Skyhawks/ Unipart duo- did they try a trio at some stage ??

I remember the first time seeing "Skyhawks" and/or "RF4 duo" on a flying display programme and as a teenager with modern miltary interest only, I certainly wasnt thinking of powered gliders!!
Ended up being a tad disapointed but they certainly grew on me - great airmanship and cracking music (but always played far too loud over the pa and so it became piercing and distorted)
Great days:ok:

[treadigraph]

Ah, and one of those names is a regular on this forum! I've lost your email address Tim... (bl@@dy Outlook!)

Not sure about G-SPIN, it was imported second-hand from the US, while the others were all brand spankers... G-RKSF stood, of course, for Rothmans King Size Filters... cough...

Blimey, the second team...

G-BADW-'AEA, were the original aircraft, ('DW still registered with Bob Mitchell, he of the stored Miles delights)

G-BGSD-'SF and G-RKSF registered in 1979 were the second team... Or did they replace the originals?

Phil Meeson is still running Channel Express isn't he?

After B O'B moved on to truck top landings and flying ski-equipped Tin Otters, Matthew Hill, Mike Dentith and Tizzy Hodgson variously flew with the team.

[Aerohack]

The combination of O'Brien's and Taylor's silent aerial ballet and 'Shine on You Crazy Diamond' always gave me goosebumps. Another piece of Pink Floyd 'music' still does: the sound of former PF drummer Nick Mason's Ferrari 250GTO!

[treadigraph]

And Dave Gilmour's P-51D... shame it's gone back to the US!

[Negative 'G']

Just a bit of info on pitts G-BADW, I last saw it looking VERY VERY dusty in a museum storage hanger on the southside of Cosford in the mid/late 90's along with several(3) of Bob Mitchells 'PT-Flight' aeroplanes :D

Maybe someone else knows more regarding the current location/condition of these lovely aeroplanes ?

Neg G:D

[Aerohack]

All still there, I think, along with his ex-Rothmans Stampe 'AWIW, KZ-VIII (how nice it would be to see that flying again) and Stephens Akro.

[Negative 'G']

Ah yes the Akro was there but sadly no Stamp, mind you I am talking of possibly 6-7yrs ago, obviously you've seen them since then.
Are they all flying again or just gathering dust ?

Neg G :D

[Aerohack]

Saw photos a while back, all gathering dust. There were some exchanges on this Forum some months ago (maybe the MMMMiles thread?) castigating Bob Mitchell for hanging on to all these, and his two Miles classics, but they're his aeroplanes.

[RileyDove]

The hanger in which they are stored seems to suffer in the winter. A friend saw the Whitney Straight not so long ago and the damp was having a serious effect on it. Posession
is indeed 9/10ths of the Law but it's an incredibly sad situation for the aircraft.

[Zlin526]

The Rothmans solo aircraft that David Perrin flew was Pitts S-2S G-SOLO. G-SPIN was never a Rothmans aircraft.

My recollection of the rest of the team's aircraft over the years is:

BADW, stored at Cosford with Bob Mitchell
BADX, Crashed in Lanzarote, 26.5.78, Pilot killed (who??)
BADY, Crashed 29.6.84
BADZ, On rebuild in Devon.
BAEA, Crashed at Sywell on 19/4/76, passenger Cliff Barnett killed.
RKSF, Sold to Denmark 1983
BGSD, Sold to France 1982
BGSE, Still around in the UK as G-TIII
BGSF, Sold to Italy, 1982
SOLO, Still around, but Permit lapsed

Think they also used G-BDKS & BECM but I'm not 100% sure.

I also seem to remember that S-1 G-AXNZ was also painted in Rothmans Colours at one time, but cant be 100%

The Stampe Club Journal had details of the Stampes they used, but like my sheet of paper with details of their pilots, it's buried in the loft somewhere....

Stampes AWIW, AYCG and AXYW were definates, and AYIJ was also used for a time.

They were good days...Be nice to see 4 Pitts Specials again as a display item. Makes a change from Yaks.

[treadigraph]

Ah yes, G-SOLO, forgot the one that parted me hair! RKSF made up the four ship with the 'BGS* team.

Think you are right, G-BDKS replaced G-BAEA, and G-BECM certainly was around in Rothmans scheme at one point...

Presumably G-BADY was one of the Fleetwood mid air collision aircraft.

As Aerohack says, Cliff Barnett survived the Pitts crash but was sadly lost along with Steve "Propliner" Piercey after their photo mount (an Aztec?) collided with a Beech 1900 at Hanover. Was privileged to meet Steve a couple of times, a super bloke. Last saw him a week or so before his death. I may still have Roger Bacon's tribute in Flight to the pair in the loft... Total Aviation People, the ultimate Bacon accolade...

[Aerohack]

The homebuilt Pitts S-1C G-AXNZ was indeed painted in full Rothmans livery. I have it in mind that it was used as a static promotional exhibit, or am I confusing it with a non-flying S-2A?

Treadders: Yes it was a Aztec in which Cliff and Steve died, along with a South American photographer friend of Steve's. A terrible day.

[Tim Mills]

Only just seen this thread:
1974 season:

Manx Kelly leader, Mike Findlay No2, Iain Weston No4, and yours truly hanging on like grim death and trying to keep up with the rest, No3. Brendan O'Brien was commentator, crew transport driver, spare aeroplane pilot, and excellent value. I would have liked to see his Fournier displays.

Manx had to leave early in the season to sort out the Carling Team in Canada, so Iain took the lead, and Neil Williams slotted in at No4, in amongst all his other display duties. Towards the end of the season, when Neil became unavailable, David Perrin joined. He was easily the youngest member of the team, the only one who had not been in the RAF, and had very limited formation and display flying experience. But he took to it like a duck to water, took the No2 position, and Mike flew No4 from then on.

As has been said before, Manx, Neil and David all tragically left us some time ago, particularly tragic in Davids case, a super young man. Iain, who was instructing on simulators at CSE for many a year, sadly died last year. I hadn't heard anything of Mike for ages, hope his wine growing is going well.

I was only with the team for that year, and was just about getting the hang of it, but I became a grandfather about then, and this didn't really fit with the youthful image Manx wanted! Actually, it was by mutual agreement, I thought it was time to get a proper job, and I think I only got the job in the first place because Manx and I had been on the same Canberra squadron in Cyprus and I wandered into the Rothmans hut at Booker to say hello, when he was looking for a pilot, and I was looking for a job!

Great fun, great experience, and I wouldn't have missed it for anything. G-BADX was my aeroplane, sad to hear of it's demise, and the uncertainty over the others.

[Aerohack]

The non-flying S-2A mentioned in my last post was also 'G-RKSF'. It had a full factory-spec fuselage with truncated, detachable wings. It was in Keith Fordyce's Torbay Aircraft Museum at one time, then went to Toyota as 'G-CARS'. Can't recall what Rothmans used 'XNZ for then.

[Zlin526]

What an amazing response to a simple query! :ok:

Keep it up chaps, there's lots more to find out.

I'll venture into my loft this weekend and find that sheet with all the details..Probable find a load of other stuff too, and I won't be popular with Mrs Zlin.

Zlin

[Aerohack]

Z526: I did just ascend my loft, at Mrs Aerohack's behest (annual retrieval of Christmas decorations). Stumbled over a box of old videos, and among those that fell out was 'Man in the Sky' devoted to the young David Perrin. Had forgotten it was there, can't remember anything about it, but when I've refreshed my memory with a viewing or two I'd be happy to loan it to any posters on this thread who might be interested.

[G-KEST]

I flew with the RAT's for the 1971 season in Stampe SV4C's flying G-AYGR or G-AYCK in the No. 2 slot. A fabulous experience especially since I had no formation aerobatic time or training prior to joining the team. Not only that, but my first airshow with the team was the afternoon of the day I joined.........!!! One day I will write it all up for one of the aviation magazines but I can confirm that on the odd occasion adrenalin was brown. Great blokes and fantastic pilots. Had to pack it in at the end of the 1971 season as, O thee of little faith, I lacked confidence in Rothmans continuation as sponsors beyond the end of 1973 and I had a wife, two kids and a mortgage to keep happy along with my day job of being CFI at Sibson.
I did blot my copybook in 1972 when I totally demolished a borrowed G-AYGR in a mid-air collision at a Barnstormers display at Weston-super-Mare. My subsequent apologies were accepted with a somewhat crinkly smile by Manx and Judy his wife.
The best source of information might be Jeanne Frazer who was the RAT's admin ace for a number of years from 1972. She is still involved with the airshow scene at Duxford with the Fighter Collection.

[Aerohack]

Ah, now I know who you are, G-KEST! The Kings Cliffe address should have been a give-away. Have a glossy 10 x 8 of your moment of impact somewhere, and I think one of you displaying your split bonedome afterwards (plus, one I took of you wearing some rather more bizarre headgear with IAC's Mike Heuer at South Cerney in '86).

[Zlin526]

Aerohack,

Man in the Sky - One of the best British flying films made IMHO.... A regular viewing lifts the spirits at once!


G-KEST, I know who you are too ;)

Why don't you write it all down, and let us all know what it was like? That picture of your unfortunate 'coming together' at Weston is one of aviations classics.

[Georgeablelovehowindia]

Bob Thompson is Martin Baker's test pilot, flying the Meteor at Chalgrove. He's the only one current on it, because they've had to modify the seat ... he's a bit on the tall side.

I'm sorry to hear about Colin Woods. How dreadful for Viv.

[treadigraph]

The Zlin was G-AVPZ if that stirs any memories and the date was 5 May '68... other than that, gleaned from British Civil Aircraft, I know nothing...

Got your number as well, G-KEST!

[Flying Lawyer]

Two other names from the Rothmans Team -
Alan Dix late 70s and John McLean early 80s.
I think John McLean was killed in a mid-air during a display at Blackpool (?) in the mid 80's.

I have a vague recollection that Stefan Karwowski flew with the team in the late 70's but I didn't know Stef until about 1982 so I'm not certain.
What a pilot! My introduction to warbirds was flying around in the back of a P-51 with Stef, and staying in for displays - in the good old days before the nannies introduced rules.
Loss of an outstanding natural pilot, and more important a very good friend, when Stef was killed - flying a Pitts for fun whilst on holiday with his family in New Zealand.

Tudor Owen


[Edit]
Someone asked about Philip Meeson. I still see him very occasionally. He's a very successful businessman. His most well-known company is Channel Express, but that's only part of the very successful Dart Group Plc which he owns.

[alexis_lambert]

Aerohack,
I have been after that video for years and would appreciate a copy if thats O.K?

[Aerohack]

Alexis,

I won't copy it (copyright infringement), but you are welcome to borrow the original, and what you do with it while you have it is your business. ;) PM me your address.

[treadigraph]

I wouldn't mind a quick squint at it as well after Alexis if that's OK Aerohack...

Cheers

Treadders

[Aerohack]

Sounds like we need a distribution list! Yes, no problem, Treadders. Either PM me or Alexis your address, and when I hear from him I'll get it started on its journey (though not yet found tyime to watch myself!).

[hairyclameater]

Enjoying this thread -a great interest of mine, old airshows - loads of knowledge & nostalgia out there!

G-BECM was definitely with the Roths at some stage and was used by the "Jubilee duo" in 1977 along with G-BCXD, flown by Bob Thompson and Marcus Edwards.

1975 Roths were: Mike Findlay,Iain Weston,Dave Perrin, Colin Woods and comm/spare was Ben Kershaw.

Interesting to hear about Bob Mitchells collection - especially the KZ8 - thought that was long lost.

Anyone recall Peter Philips in the Andreasson BA4B - a stalwart of early '70s shows - my God that display was L - O - W!!!

And James Black and aforementioned Neil Williams of Aerobatics International - Zlins G-AWJX & AWSH & Pitts S1 G-AZPH - seemed to be everywhere.

I picked up a pretty good video called "Sky Spectacular", made up of 3 films including the mini documentary of Concordes first flight "She Flies". The other two are "The Display" featuring mainly the Roths and Manx Kelly solo plus loads of other goodies (Belgian Slivers F104 duo, Lightning F1, RAF Phantoms, VC10, Poachers, Blue Eagles, Nimrod, Victor SR2, Vulcan etc etc- gibber gibber!!) at Biggin Hill in 1973 & a documentary again on the Roths shot in Spain late in their life - '79/80? Grrreat stuff!!

Slightly off topic but another good video is "where the big birds fly" - all about a Vulcan crew low flying in Canada circa '74 - truly awesome.

[treadigraph]

Thanks Aerohack, I have PM'd you - at least I think I have!

I can recall Peter Phillips looping an Islander/Defender at Bigign Hill in 1976... Might have seen the BA-4, but ashamed to admit I don't remember it!

[alexis_lambert]

I trust you would have seen the Black Knight as well?

[Aerohack]

I did. You still collecting stuff? I shot photos of his T-33 display at Biggin one year. Probably still have the negatives, if not prints. Sea Fury too, I think.

Treadders: Also photographed Peter Phillips in Islander and BA-4B, at a Goodwood display. As I recall, his Islander routine included some asymmetric stuff — not quite Bob Hoover with both feathered, but very impressive. Wasn't it while doing an (aerobatic?) routine in Africa with a Trislander that Peter had a bad accident? BTW, the Chilton tangent that we darted off on in the 'Significant British lightplane' thread, combined with this one, reminded me that Manx Kelly used to own 'AFSV. It was painted red/black/white at the time, and carried the name 'Barbara Ann' or somesuch. Must have been around the time he was also involved in the short-lived Owl Racer that crashed fatally into the Thames Estuary.

[foxmoth]

Flying Lawyer
John Mclean was killed over Morcambe Bay practicing for the start of season, it was a three ship display and they were practising a loop with the third guy going in the reverse direction and going through the middle of the other two - unfortunately they didn't make it, John and Andy (Walbridge?) were both killed in this.

[Zlin526]

OK,

I never made it to the loft, found my press release list of pilots from 1970-1979 at the office! I knew I had seen it somewhere..

So..

Manx Kelly - 1970/71/72/73/74 all as leader. Manx was tragically killed while flight testing a Stolp Acroduster in the USA, 1976 I think.

Iain Weston - 1970/71/72/73/74/75. Sadly no longer with us.

Neil Williams - 1970/71/77. Neil was killed in Spain while ferrying a Spanish built Heinkel 111 in 1977. I seem to remember it was today, the 11th December. Thats a strange co-incidence if it was.

Ray Hogarth - 1970

Barry Tempest - 1971. Barry's still around and doesn't look a day over 21

Mike Thompson - 1971

Rod Freeman - 1971

Mike Findlay - 1972/73/74/75/77/78. As mentioned, he's in France growing grapes?

Andrew White - 1972/73

Tim Mills - 1974. In Australia and contributing to this thread.

David Perrin - 1974/75/76/77/78. Flew as the solo pilot after this. Tragically killed in a Helicopter accident in 1982

Colin Woods - 1975/76. Sadly no longer with us.

Graham Rutson - 1976/77. Working for the CAA as a Flight Ops Inspector.

Bob Thompson - 1976/78. Currently Chief Test Pilot for Martin-Baker

Marcus Edwards - 1978/79. Instrumental in getting the Sea Vixen flying again, but sadly no longer with us.

George Smith - 1978

Mike Cairns - 1978/79. Sim Instructor in Florida?

Rod Rea - 1979. Still around, flying for TNT?

Alan Dix - 1979

Brian Lecomber - 1979. MD & Chief Pilot of Firebird Aerobatics, and STILL displaying, with John Taylor of Skyhawks/Unipart Duo fame ! Both of them don't look a day over 21 either.

Thats all the info I have, but would be interested to know what happened to the team after 1979, and who the pilots were.


Z

[Aerohack]

Z526: Outstanding! But who knows what treasures you may still have in the loft? Do risk Mrs Z's wrath and take a look.

News of Manx's death came during a display at Booker. I was there as writer/photgrapher and sat in on a pilots' briefing given by Neil, and I remember he interrupted the brief with the tragic news from the States.

As I recall Neil and Doug Bianchi departed this world over the same weekend — both great losses to the historic/airshow movements.

[Zlin526]

Aerohack,

The books of Neil Williams certainly had a great influence in my future aviation career. My parents gave me 'Airborne' as a Christmas Present, and 'Aerobatics' followed on my 14th birthday. I still read them occasionally as if they were newly bought.

My first flight in the aeroplane that Neil wrote about and I now regularly fly was on the day he died.
:hmm:

[RileyDove]

It does make you wonder if there is enough archive film out there
to make a cracking documentary. Sadly it has personnal loss but there also great escapes like the Weston 'incident' and a real story to be told about fine aviators.
Maybe it's a flight of fantasy which needs to be transfered
to Hollywood and a large dose of American rewriting!
I envisage a 'new' Robert Redford and team pitched in duels against an opposing team with dastardly tactics!
The temptation to 'steal' the Bond Bede sequence but with three Pitts inverted through a dusty Californian hanger door really appeals!

[treadigraph]

I have an idea that Alan Dix may have been on the B-17? Name rings a bell...

The Weston pic is truly awesome; I saw it long before I read about the circumstances.

And how about that other great "ouch" photo? Lewis Benjamin in a Super Tiger poised vertically about 2ft off the ground after flicking in to a spin during a crazy flying routine... both flew again.

A documentary or a book of airshow memories and photos is a splendid idea. Lecomber has written a couple of good articles on the subject...

[Aerohack]

<<And how about that other great "ouch" photo? Lewis Benjamin in a Super Tiger poised vertically about 2ft off the ground after flicking in to a spin during a crazy flying routine... both flew again>>

Can't think of that picture without calling to mind the 'thought balloon' that was added to the copy on the wall of the old Tiger Club tea room at Redhill: "If this doesn't kill me, Norman (Jones) will!".

[DSR10]

Mike Denteth flys the Utterly Butterly wing walkers at Vic Normans
Rendscombe field

[Zlin526]

'Man in the Sky' was a short film about David Perrin, the Rothmans solo pilot. It mentions that he operated from a "lonely farm strip on the south coast, close to Beachy head"

Anyone know where this was? The only strip I know down that way is at Friston, where Piece of Cake was made during the 80s.

Z

[Kingy]

Weston 1972 mid air:

I chaps,

I remember sitting on a blanket next to my dad's Messenger when I saw this happen. (was only a child). It had a lasting effect on me and I can remember it as if it were yesterday. The WW2 crash truck came screaming across the airfield, very narrowly missing us in the process..! I can still remember the silence for a few seconds as it happened.

Incidently, my 'ol man went on to organise the Avon air days at Weston for the next few years, One year we had the Reds, a Lightning and Concorde display.. not to mention all the aerobatic greats - Happy Days..

Kingy

[sycamore]

Broadening the theme a little to "others", I`m surprised nobody has mentioned the Zlin Duo of James Black and Carl Schofield, and their mirror flying.Superb to watch, as any Zlin display is/was. Bloody hard work on limited power, but graceful aerobatics--- none of this "angry bee" stuff!!

[Aerohack]

Seconded, sycamore — perhaps one of the best mirrors ever. Your 'angry bee' reminds me of the Pitts' UK debut (if you don't count Betty Skelton at Gatwick in 1949) at the World Aerobatics Championships at RAF Hullavington in 1970. The U.S. team was mostly equipped with S-1Ses, which then seemed tiny and very angry bee/wasp like, while the Russians had big Yak-18PMs and 'PSes. I think it was John Blake who likened the Yaks to grand pianos, the Pittses to xylophones — an analogy that has stuck in my mind ever since.

[Zlin526]

I remember seeing the Zlin duo at Biggin Hill one year, think it was early 80s when they got a bit too close, and banged their tailfins during a mirror formation. Not much damage, but just shows how close they used to fly!

Oh to see that type of aircraft again in displays...An aircraft that needs skill to fly accurately, not like the modern Extras etc (Move the stick around the cockpit and the world rotates). :confused:

Talking of others, anyone remember the Tiger Club Stampe duo with Pete Jarvis and Carl Schofield? Also flown by Brian Smith and Pete Kynsey. Another demonstration of how to fly smooth, graceful aerobatics in an aeroplane that wasnt exactly over-endowed with power or aerodynamics. One of their Stampes displayed at Old Warden this year.


Z

[hairyclameater]

Re: "Broadening the theme a little to "others", I`m surprised nobody has mentioned the Zlin Duo of James Black and Carl Schofield, "

I mentioned them some time ago ! :

"And James Black and aforementioned Neil Williams of Aerobatics International - Zlins G-AWJX & AWSH & Pitts S1 G-AZPH - seemed to be everywhere"

- didnt know that Schofield was the 3rd member.Cant remember them in the '80s, but certainly the '70s.

I thought a great mirror was flown by the JP equipped "Gemini Pair" , it became their trade mark. Also the Patrouille de France who slow rolled it, looked very elegant in the Magisters.

Also Zlin requested what happened to the Roths after '79. I posted the 1980 team earlier:

1980 (last season?) No1 Marcus Edwards,Brian Lecomber, John McClean,Rod Rea

[treadigraph]

Another excellent display that arose from the Rothmans ashtray (sorry, the puns get worse!) was the "Jaguar Duo" - or some such soubriquet that involved somebody who's name I have entirely forgotten, ex F-4 driver? in Brian Lecomber's lovely Stampe, counterpointed by Brian himself in the Extra 230.

Fantastic combination of the old and the new, lovely classic aeros from the Stampe, and cutting edge unlimited stuff from the Extra - tumbles and knife-edge spins were fairly new then and as I recall Brian was out-classing people in the ever more common Sukhois and the like.

[BOAC]

BADX, Crashed in Lanzarote, 26.5.78, Pilot killed (who??)

For the record, Zlin, I believe that was George Smith on his first year with the team, and I seem to recollect it was a spin from a 'knife-edge' final turn?

[Zlin526]

BOAC,

Many thanks for that. I suspected it might be. Any idea who was piloting 'BAEA when it crashed after take off at Sywell in '76?

Treadigraph,

Recall John Harper flying the Stampe at some stage, maybe others too, but John is not ex Military. BBC, but not RAF!

[stiknruda]

The original rudder from G-AZPH now adorns the back of my aircraft and will be at Shuttleworth tomorrow!

I'd love to see the David Perrin film, saw one movie about him in 1992, guess it is the same one, tremendous footage.

Also saw the Rothman's tour of the middle East vid, too. That was also very entertaining.



Stik

[treadigraph]

Zlin, don't think it was John Harper as I know his reputation quite well... and think he was campaigning one of the Goode Yak 50s at the time. Fairly certain about the F-4 bit - but it wasn't John Allison!

Cheers

Treadders

[doubleu-anker]

Sad to hear about Iain Weston.

When last year did he pass away?

[asw28-866]

Stumbled across this thread today and brought back many, ahem, childhood memories! I recall Perrin as a hangar rat at Sportair, learning his aerobatic craft in the RF4s. Flew some pairs displays with me dad, who was then the CFI (kind of precurser to the infamous & fabulous Unipart displays).

Many ex Sportair names cropping up in this thread! Though sadly some departed...

Merry crimbles to all

ASW28

[CamelPilot]

This one hasn't - yet!

Perrin's aero training was actually done on RF5's because he wasn't old enough to fly solo - all dual with Robby Dorsey and one or two others, including me!

On his 17th birthday he arrived at Biggin and flew the RF4 for the first time and did a short display over the airfield - and a longer one somewhere over Sevenoaks. He was a veggie and teetotal so we had a good night for which he paid!

I think I know who you are but please send me a PM.

[Aerohack]

Stik: My copy of 'Man in the Sky' is currently enroute Alexis Lambert, thence to Treadders. If you want to get on the borrowing circulation list, liaise with Treadders.

[KZ8]

Ref G-AXNZ, I believe the background is as follows:

G-AXNZ was built by Bert Etheridge and Wally Berry at Old Warden. Both were craftsmen working for the Shuttleworth Collection, Bert was a master woodworker and Wally was an expert engine man.

Bert had, among other projects, previously homebuilt the lovely Currie Wot G-ASBA (complete with De-Havilland fin and rudder), and with the more ‘aerobatically’ inclined Shuttleworth pilots in mind, decided to build a Pitts next. Chief targets for the aircraft were Neil Williams and John Jordan, both of whom were regular Shuttleworth pilots.

Construction started in about 1968 and was completed at Old Warden in 1972. By that time, Manx Kelly had bought the project and the aircraft was finished in Rothmans colours. I believe that Manx wanted to equip the team with Pitts, but at the time the type was not in production and as Stampes were more readily available, he went with Stampes. Later, when the Pitts factory started to build the S2A on a production line, he changed to Pitts.

G-AXNZ was used as a practice machine and followed the team around, flying in for static display. It was eventually sold to Peter Cadbury (‘Air Pegasus’), then David Parfrey at Coventry, and then back to John Jordan, one of the original inspirations for the project. John still owns it.

[Cloudwatcher]

:ok: Re Alan Dix, I'm very priviledged to know this guy, he was a brilliant plot (sadly he no longer flys) his stories and anecdotes are amazing as are his log books.
He was with the Rothmans team for the 78-79 team and flew with Brian Lecomber.
His career started in the Raf, he soloed in a jet provost at around 13Hrs , Ive seen the entry!
He flew Hunters and moved into commercial aviation with amongst others Dan Air BAC 1-11's and latterly was chief pilot for Inter european on A 320's.

Great bloke

[smartman]

Cloudwatcher

I was with AD in the Middle East whilst he was on his first tour with the RAF - after which he was an usher at my wedding. Or maybe he simply pitched up with his (then?) delicious wife to add spice to the occasion. Rotund bxxxxr with a Fry sense of humour?

[Tim Mills]

Sorry, doubleu-anker, post 17 Dec, I can't be more specific about when Iain Weston died, but I think it was sometime before last Christmas. His daughter let us know, and I wrote to Jean, but have no record of the date.

He and I were contemoraries at Cranwell in 1950, and I first met him in Nocton Hall RAF Hospital when he had fallen foul of a motor bike, and I had been ignominiously ejected from an aerobatic MG of the way back from the local.

Then, much later, to the Rothmans, where it was his misfortune to have to teach me all he knew on the magic art of formation slow rolls and inverted formation flying; some of it must have rubbed off!

I know he flew a 125 for some time, based largely in Cairo, then on to CSE, where he was, I think, when he died. A great mate.

[doubleu-anker]

Tim

Many thanks for your efforts.

happy christmas

[Regis Potter]

treadigraph,

John Conner was the ex F-4 guy; also ex-Air Europe 737's if I recall.

Brian Lecomber's SV4B G-AYWT spent some time in the early 90's as the Daily/Sunday Express "duo"? & certainly John was flying it at that time. I'm fairly sure that John Harper was flying the Pitts G-IIII & Extra occasionally at that time although the majority of the 'Microlease' solo was by flown by Alan Wade.

Great thread !

[treadigraph]

John Conner, that's the chap I was thinking of! Well done Reg! But now I'm confused as to whether it was Jaguar or Express that I remember - I do recall Harpo flying with Brian's team, though solo in the Extra 230 - those knife edge spins were awesome!

Cheers

Treadders

[Regis Potter]

I've dug out an old log book; the Stampe & Extra 230 were operating as the Express team in '91/92. I'm sure Jaguar was after that.

[Reichman]

Just read this excellent thread (been away for a bit). To get back to the Rothmans theme:

I seem to recall a pair of Pitts S2s doing the rounds as the Vixen Two/Pair/Duo (can't remember which) in the late 70s or early 80s. I was only a kid at the time but I'm sure they were in Rothmans colours. Saw them display at Doncaster and I think they also gave a few aeros rides to the public. Anyone else remember?

Reichman

[stiknruda]

Reichman,

IIRC the late Marcus Edwards was involved with Vixen Two. I believe that I am right in saying that the late Geoff Masterton had something to do with them, too. He had been the Rothman's engineer and ferry pilot.

Stik

[KZ8]

The Vixen Two team was Marcus Edwards (G-BDKS) and John McLean (G-BECM), both previous Rothmans team members and aircraft. The team expanded to three aircraft with Andy Walbridge flying G-BADY, and offered solo, pair or three-ship formations for airshows, as well as aerobatic training flights.

I met them a time or two when they used to borrow a Pitts S2 from my local airfield when one of their own aircraft went unserviceable.

Sadly, the team came to an end in 1984 when John McLean and Andy Walbridge lost their lives in a mid- air collision at Fleetwood, Lancs during a display practise when an opposition-looping manoeuvre went wrong.

[Algernon Lacey]

I remember meeting Marcus Edwards and John Maclean in September 1981. They had come up to Blackpool for the stag night of Andy Walbridge who was shortly to marry Nicky Benson?
I was doing my PPl at the time with the long gone BATS, Andy was one of the instructors there.
I still regret not being able to afford a trip with one of them in the Pitts.

The opposition looping maneouvre was it called The Tread Needle?


Happy days

[hairyclameater]

The THREAD NEEDLE from my Rothmans programme 1976 appears to be a pairs crossing manouvere followed immediately by an intertwining join up into box. Perhaps later teams used the same name for a different manouvere -havent we had an ex Rothmans member on this thread? - more info there perhaps.

[treadigraph]

Saddened to see in this month's Flyer that Brian Lecomber's Firebird Aerobatics is closing down due to lack of sponsorship - also that John Taylor was seriously hurt in a road accident early last year. Hope that Brian will keep performing aerobatics (and perhaps get around to writing some more books and articles!) and that JT is fully recovered and flying again.

Aerohack/Alexis/Stiknruda:

FYI, video has arrive safely with me (thanks chaps!) and will be in the post to you after the weekend, Stik!

Cheers

Treadders

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

I remember Brian arriving at Barton in the Stampe on the day before one of the early '80s airshows. All pre-show activity on the field stopped as he gave us an 'arrival show' which was absolutely breathtakingly superb. When he finished, sponateous appluase broke out all around the airfield.

I'm surprised he can't get sponsorship, but maybe retirement from display flying will allow him time to return to writing.

I certainly hope so.

SSD

[G-KEST]

Thread the needle - opposition pairs of Stampes, one (2/3) abreast and one (1/4) line astern - after crossing the line abreast pair looped and the line astern pair did a half cuban with a box join up on the exit. Looked good from the ground and was occasionally exciting from the air. Halcyon days indeed.
Tragic that Firebirds are no more - especially as the sponsorship pot is milked by the odd person who really is skating on thin legal ice - totally unlike Brian's outfit which always kept to the rules, occasionally to its disbenefit. Right back to Biplane Club days Brian has given his all to both aerobatics and to the airshow world. His like are rare indeed.
Trapper 69
PS - Please see my thread and campaign on the Historics forum concerning the honours list. All contributions gratefully received.

[Tim Mills]

Been out of touch lately, jolly hols and more computer trouble, so have only just caught up with matters Pprune. From my 1974 Rothmans programme, Thread the Needle was then called Swiss Roll. From the description the manoeuvres sound the same, except the leader ended up inverted. Can't be specific from personal experience, memory fading, and I never did any of the clever bits, only hung on grimly.
What I wanted to ask G-KEST was whether they did a proper box 4 slow roll in the Stampes, or if it was only possible with the greater power, and possibly more precise control response, with the Pitts. As No3, and the roll always being to the left, I have never really managed to figure out what I was doing in terms of control. Just as well perhaps! A sort of very tight negative G barrel roll, I think, and couldn't do it without someone to formate on I'm sure. I do remember thinking that the Old Warden boundary fence was looking a bit close as Manx rolled towards me during one of my early shows with the team. I think I only concentrated on the leader from then on! Halcyon Days indeed.

[hairyclameater]

From the 1976 Rothmans programme, Thread needle and Swiss Roll are both separate manouveres. The Swiss Roll relates perefectly to G-KESTs description, whilst thread needle is another crossing and join up though both pairs appear to be line abreast.

Box slow roll in Stampes was included in the '72 programme, according to literature (Farnborough material)

[Aileron Roll]

This must really be the best thread have ever read on any forum, what a history lesson ! Thankyou to all involved, wish I had something of interest to add !....... more topics like this please !

[Zlin526]

Thanks Aileron Roll,

It all started with a simple query..............

Which brings me back to the Marlboro Aerobatic Team. Who were the personalities that have flown with them over the years? And what happened to them?

Phillip Meeson (obviously) now MD/CEO of Dart Group
Nigel Lamb - OFMC MD
Dick Manning - ????? Where did he go?
Phil Symmans - ??????

Any others I have forgotten?

[KZ8]

I think Ian Peacock was with the team.

Brendan O'Brien and John Taylor also flew for Philip Meeson in the early days of the team with G-BDXZ and G-LOOP.

KZ8

[treadigraph]

Steve Privett (and Lee Proudfoot?) also flew with Nigel Lamb either with Marlboro or Toyota (?) - now display Fighter Collection and OFMC fighters resepctively...

[alexis_lambert]

I think Nigel still runs the Marlboro team as The Golden Dreams Team out in the far east.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Did a Dave Riley ever fly with the Rothmans?

SSD

[Aileron Roll]

Both Nigel Lamb and Lee Proudfoot must have the best jobs in aviation ! ..... some good profiles on these guys at www.ofmc.co.uk

[alexis_lambert]

If you goto Nigels profile there is a link to his website for The Golden Dreams team.

[G-KEST]

Tim,
During my time with the RAT's in 1971 we did several practices with axial slow rolls in box however, probably due to me, they all degenerated into horizontal bomb-bursts when all four of us got uncomfortable at the same moment. Three on the basis of self preservation and Manx on the basis of the money wasted in nugatory practice. I had the number 2 slot and it certainly felt like an inside/outside slow barrel roll to me however one had but a fleeting peripheral glimpse of anything other than lead for about 20 seconds. I rapidly developed the ability to s**t through the eye of a needle in some of the sessions. I suppose we must be the oldest RAT's around now. Tempus fugit.....!!!!
Trapper 69
www.tempest.ndo.co.uk

[Tim Mills]

Many thanks,G-KEST, for your reply to my slow roll question. I only drove a Stampe a couple of times, and not in formation. Delightful, and would have liked more.
My contribution to the art of the horizontal PofW feathers was a solo effort during a show for a garden fete down Headcorn way. Having done our initial loop in box, us three would do a vic 3/4 bunt from 45degrees up pushing through to 45 degrees up again inverted, while the box man went and did his individual clever thing before rejoining us on the way down again. Half way through the bunt, I found myself getting rather close to the leader, and each time I did the instinctive thing, easing the stick away from him, I got closer! I'd forgotten it works that way while upside down. Bootful of escape direction rudder, few deep breaths, switching off smoke to make myself invisible, and able to join in again a couple of manoeuvres later. As you say, a bit twitchy at times, and I'm glad it happened there rather than at the Biggin show, or Farnborough, with all the experts watching.
Bit off subject, but thanks for your website link, and glad to hear you are still thrilling the crowds. Used to hear a lot about all that in your Barnstormer days, from Manx.
I saw a Steen Skybolt once when visiting Vivian Bellamy, of fond memory, down at Land End, built from a kit by the local car respray and repair chap; it must have been in 1976/7, and just wonder if it the same one. There can't br too many around.
Happy days; but these aren't bad either!

[G-KEST]

Tim,
Our Skybolt, G-KEST, was built in the USA by a guy called Alex Todd in the late 1970's. Impoted into the UK mid 1980's and severely bent in a precautionary landing due poor weather in the early 1990's. Bought from the insurers by two guys from Leicester named Kevin Eld And Steve Thursfield - hence KEST. I bought a one third share which provided the cash to initiate the extensive rebuild. Three other guys helped in a big way and got a 5% share each as a reward for their effots to be realised if and when the airplane is sold. Finished in 1997 and kept at Leicester. Has an IO-360 with Christen systems anf flies beautifully. A docile version of an S2A without the twitch but with less performance. OK to intermediate but no firther unless you want to go over the limits we have set along with the PFA. Burns 8 gallons an hour average mainly on aeros. A better way of converting hydrocarbon into sheer hedonistic pleasure I have yet to encounter.
Cheers,
Trapper 69
or, long ago, Rothmans Blue 2

[Tim Mills]

Thanks G-KEST, not the same one, and I fully appreciate your remarks about converting hydrocarbons into enjoying yourself. I'm stuck with the ride on mower,which needs mending before each sortie, and an occasional slash of the paddocks with an old Fergie tractor. Used to get slightly aerobatic with the tractor, but more careful now. Keeps me amused in my approaching dotage, and this is a great place to do it.

Bon chance, Blue 3.

[TheAerosCo]

As previously mentioned, the David Perrin S2S G-SOLO is still registered in the UK, although to a now defunct Company (Landitfast). Does anyone know of its whereabouts now? I know it was in the Netherlands during the 80's but can't track it beyond that.

TheAerosCo

[Aerohack]

Just when you thought this one was dead...

Whilst looking for something else I happened upon some air-to-air photographs that I took of the Rothmans Team when they were working up for the first season with the Pitts S-2As. I have yet to master the black — or in this case, black-and-white — art of posting pictures here, but if someone would care to act as host I'd be happy to share them. Likewise some rediscovered shots of the Marlboro Team when Nigel Lamb and Phil Symmans were the new boys.

[Zlin526]

Aerohack,

That would be excellent news if you could get some pics onto the thread.

z

[Heliport]

See the Photo thread (sticky) for instructions about posting photographs.

[treadigraph]

Aerohack,

Be delighted to post them for you - email them to my office address and I will post them on the company website until I figure out how to upload to my own webspace... got 10mbs sitting there a-wasting, can't possibly think of better way of using it! I'll be there Saturday morning, got a fighter related magazine to prepare!

Best regards,

Treadders

[Aerohack]

Treadders: Will scan 'em and e-mail to you. Thanks.

[Batchy]

http://img51.photobucket.com/albums/v157/woodlands/APN_Rothmans_Pitts.jpg


This photo is part of the APN archive and dates from the mid 70's. I seem to remember seeing a Pitts still wearing its Rothmans livery as late as 1986 at a display at Goodwood.

If my memory serves me correctly there was a short film made in the 70's called something like the 'Wind in the wires' narrated by the great James Mason which featued the Rothmans team. It was made in that wonderful colour film that they used before video tape came along.


Batchy.

http://img51.photobucket.com/albums/v157/woodlands/Rothmans_Pitts_II.jpg


I managed to find the old slide I took at Goodwood in 86, does anyone know who was the pilot.

Batchy.

[wub]

I remember standing on the airfield at Compton Abbas in about 1970 when the RAT flew past in their Stampes. As they got to about the middle of the runway, but about 500 yards to one side, they pulled up into a loop and then carried on their way without changing heading

[treadigraph]

OK - here are Aerohack's excellent Rothmans and Marlboro photos: I'll leave him to provide the narrative!

1:
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q248/treadigraph/Rothmans-1.jpg

2:
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q248/treadigraph/Rothmans-2.jpg

3:
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q248/treadigraph/Rothmans-3.jpg

4:
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q248/treadigraph/Mboro-1.jpg

5:
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q248/treadigraph/Mboro-2.jpg

6:
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q248/treadigraph/Mboro-3.jpg

7:
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q248/treadigraph/Mboro-4.jpg

8:
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q248/treadigraph/zph.jpg

[KZ8]

Batchy, Bob Mitchell was flying G-BADW in 1986. Probably Bob or Dai Heather-Hayes.

Great pictures.

KZ8

[Batchy]

Thanks KZ8,

Was 1986 the end of the line for Rothmans sponsorship, I cant recall ever seeing the livery on anything after that Goodwood display in 1986.

Batchy.

[KZ8]

Batchy,

I think 1983 would have been the last year that Rothmans sponsered the Pitts. By that time they were concentrating on the Pitts solo display flown by David Perrin in G-SOLO.

G-BADW was bought by the Aerospace Museum at Cosford in 1980 and statically displayed there with the Rothmans Stampe G-AWIW. A change of musuem policy meant that the aircraft were put up for sale in 1984.

Once sold, G-BADW was then brought up to airwothiness and flown for a couple of seasons from 1986 in Rothmans colours before the arrival of a sponsor dictated a repaint.

KZ8

[Orange Arm Waver]

Those pictures brought back memories of my childhood... Many thanks for posting them.
Fantastic thread too. I flew with John Jordan in his Steaman as an Air Cadet at a Branstormers do at Cranfield in the 80's. Fantastic bloke. I enjoyed those displays too. Shame they don't happen anymore. That sort of display is rare these days.
Many thanks one and all for the trip down memory lane.
OAW

[Simtech]

Branstormers? Freudian slip or not, very appropriate considering Mr Jordan's family business. :ok:

[Batchy]

Thanks for the further info KZ8, it seems strange that the Rothmans colours were retained when the aircraft was returned to flight after its stay at Cosford. I'm sure the sponsor would not let it happen just incase some 'incident' were to happen.

Orange arm Waver, I remember John Jordan displaying the stearman at Old Warden, on more than one occassion, has he retired from flying now, I seem to remember he was quite a good age in the late 80's.

At one show the Stearman carried German WWI markings a legacy of the Biggles Movie if I remember correctly.

Great display pilot and much missed on the circuit.

Batchy.

[Yak11Fan]

As a matter of interest, did John Jordan used to perform aerobatics in his Stearman?

[treadigraph]

Yes he did - if you've seen Channel 4's "Classic Aircraft" he does so in one episode... not sure how old he is now, but I believe he was playing rugby at 60!

[Aerohack]

And not only in the Stearman. He once showed me a photograph of himself inverted at very low level in a Vickers Warwick!

[Orange Arm Waver]

Simtech
Ooops:ok:

Batchy
He did the flying of the Stearman in that film... Lame story but love the flying in it. When I flew in it with him there were only three dials in the front cockpit, oil temp, oil pressure and one other that escapes me - it was an engine one. There was no intercom just a tap on the shoulder when it was my go and a tap when time to give her back. Only did a circuit of Cranfield and didn't keep the height very well but a memorable flight.
It was a fantastic machine and still had some of the film markings on her on that day.
He is indeed missed from the scene

Yak11 Fan
He really threw the Stearman around the sky during the displays...

OAW

[Yak11Fan]

Would I be right in saying that his Stearman is a 450hp R985 powered machine?
I was under the impression that the CAA took a dim view of the 450 Stearman performing aerobatics on the British register or did the rules change more recently? This is not intended to be a dig at the CAA or anyone else, I hope that someone can point me in the right direction for some guidance on this matter or let me know of any information on the 450 Stearman.

Many Thanks

Chris

[Orange Arm Waver]

Yak11 Fan

The CAA register G-INFO lists the engine as a PRATT & WHITNEY R-985-AN1. I've no idea what that relates to in HP as not into engine details.
Hope it helps in some way.
OAW

[Aerohack]

It has (and has always had since its arrival in the UK in 1961) a 450hp R-985 P&W Wasp Jnr — very common post-war conversion in the USA for cropdusting which also became a favourite mount of airshow performers. G-AROY was in single-seat cropduster configuration when John Jordan first imported it, and I fancy he may even have used it thus

[Orange Arm Waver]

I believe he dusted with it in the US and brought it back overhere... I saved an article from the Daily Telegraph magazine back in the 80's about the man and his machine. Will see if I can find it and let you know more next week.
OAW

[treadigraph]

OAW, quite correct, according to JJ on "Classic Aircraft" he dusted with it in the States, came back to the UK, then acquired the aircraft from his former employer... or something like that...

Apart form the inverted Warwick incident, two others stick in my memory: getting an award for landing dead stick in Spit after n engine failure - an unacknowledged consequence of flying it inverted for some considerable time! And if I recall he flew under the Orwell Bridge at Ipswich in the Stearman...

[Taildragger]

Ahhhhhh Aerohack. Methinks you identify yourself as a Grade 1 knitted anorak in this thread. That is NOT an insult...merely an observation.!!

[Aerohack]

Taildragger:

Guilty as charged, though never actually owned an anorak (knitted one wouldn't be much use, would it?). Just spent best part of a professional lifetime recording the passing aviation scene, and reached that time in it when I can recall with remarkable clarity events of 30 or more years ago, but not always what I did yesterday...

[Morane]

Hallo to all,

the Pitts S2S, G-SOLO is based in southern Germany,
Neuburg-Egweil, EDNJ.
It was stored several years, but this year the owner
has changed and the plane will fly again this summer.

Best wishes,
Joachim

[Batchy]

I found this advert today whilst flicking through some old mags.

Will the moderator have to put the new goverment health warnings across it.

Batchy.http://img51.photobucket.com/albums/v157/woodlands/Rothmans.jpg

[BOAC]

As we used to say in the Reds - " looks like a load of fags":D

.....only joking.............:eek:

[Zlin526]

I remember a fairly in depth article about the Rothmans team in a mid-1970s issue of Aircraft Illustrated. Anyone got it?

[Amos Keeto]

I have just won a Rothmans Aerobatic Team brochure on e.bay in mint condition when the team flew Stampes, but I can't find any date in it.
I have scrolled through all the postings trying to find a formation date for the team, but the earliest date mentioned is 1970. I believe the team was formed in 1968 or '69 - can anyone confirm this?

Thanks

[jabberwok]

Amazing what you find if you have a little dig around..

G-BADY, June 1979
http://www.homepages.mcb.net/bones/WebPix/rothmans.jpg

G-SOLO, Sept 1980.
http://www.homepages.mcb.net/bones/WebPix/GSOLO.jpg

http://www.homepages.mcb.net/bones/WebPix/rothmans2.jpg

[7gcbc]

fantastic stuff, it was Kelly and Williams doing the slow rolls and inverted spins in the Stampes (Wind in the Wires) & Perrin in the pitts that made me want to learn to fly.

My two year old son snuggles up most nights before bedtime in my arms and we watch the mirror stampes.. just magic stuff.

and I hasten to add, "Wings in the Sun" , the Nile low level transit trip is a special favourite with the kids (2+4)

[On-MarkBob]

To all interested parties:-

My name is Bob Lee. I was the chief engineer for the team and the No. 5 Display pilot from 1977 until 1980 when the team was disbanded. Reading through the material there seems to be alot of garbage about. I might not be able to supply all of the answers but what I know will probably be more acurate than alot I have seen writen on this subject so far. We can start with the fact that Geoff Masterton was not the Chief engineer, because I was! as far as I know he was never in the team. Marcus indeed is no longer with us, he died suddenly at his home in South Wales. Rod Rea was my best man - haven't seen him since! John Mclean and Andy Walbridge were the two pilots who collided at Blackpool - as the Vixon Two. Very Tragic. Andy Had just joined the Vixons, I gave him his very first flight at Lasham in a Chipmunk, years eariler. George Smith was the pilot killed in Lanzarote's first air fatality, caused by the failure to recognise and recover from an inverted spin he had entrered following an unscheduled manouvre. The last I saw of poor George was literally his foot as it was placed beside him on the stretcher! Our last season was the tour of Malaysia, led my Marcus No.1; Rod Rea No.2: Alan Dix No.3 and the man who paid for my wedding night - Thank you Brian! our very own Brian Cucumber (Lecomber). I flew as No.5 in the No.2 position and Rod flew inverted over the No.4. The formation was known as the wedge. There was a second team that year;- with Andy Legg, Bob Ruskell, Mike Cairns and another who's names escape me right now - sorry. Altogeter 9 x Pitts S2A (both teams), 1 x Pitts S2S G-Solo that I had built myself with the help of Dave Fenton, Les Scattergood and my faithfull deputy John Brobyn. Yes the Islander as well, our trusty truck, flown by Norman Rhodes.
Regarding the pictures; The Pitts without the yellow cheek lines on the fuselage are all pre 1978. We painted in the white cheek line with yellow for the summer season 1978.
There is so much to tell not enough room. If any of you wish to know more you can E-mail me [email protected]

[PPRuNe Pop]

Come on Bob, you have a mint to tell. Take your time but let us know more of inside stuff that few get to hear of. We have met a few times at Biggin. Get that pen of yours scribing Bob.

PPP

[On-MarkBob]

There really is too much to say! I was with the team for three years and in that time we toured West Africa, The Canaries, Spain, Greece, The Middle East, Malaysia and Borneo; interspaced with Tours of the UK and taking in the major shows in Paris and Belgium. Someone should write a book, alas there are better people than me for that job. Brian perhaps, or Bob Thomson since he was not only team leader but the team manager for both teams.
I have stacks of pictures, if I knew how to get them onto the site I could let you see a choice few.
As for personnal memories, one of my favorites is when we were in Agadir. Marcus and I head for the lift in the Hotel, Marcus decides to break wind just before entereing the lift. Unbeknown to him there was a little alcove the other side of the corridor in which two old ladies sat. We were both unaware of this until we entered the lift and turned round. Realising he had just left them with a nasty prospect, Marcus began to turn red, I was by this time turning red trying to suppress my laughter and the two old ladies began to turn red I guess from trying to hold their breath! The lift door seem to take an age to close.
Then there was the time we arived in Sino in West Africa. It was a refuelling stop. We came accross the airport in close formation, smoke on, for a run and break. Having all landed there was no-one there, and I mean not a sole! Where was the fuel? After a while and a few cigarettes, I noticed an eyeball peeking throught a crack in the door of a thunderbox. I went up to the eyeball and said "excuse me I am looking for the airport manager", what else does one say to someone in a toilet? He replied "I am the manager", "where is everyone?" I asked. "they have all gone!", "what do you mean gone? Where have they gone?". After a pause he said "they all ran away, we thought we were under attack!"

Bob.

[BOAC]

I'm pretty sure Graham Rutson was there in the mid 70's too? Possibly left just before you arrived?

[On-MarkBob]

It's been nearly 30 years! I believe I first met Graham out in the gulf in Dubai. He was flying some SF 260s for the airforce out there. He wasn't on my team but he might have been on the second team I would have to check. I could be wrong on both counts. Mike Cairns took over from George Smith. Mike owned the Clevland Flying Club at the time, the only place I ever know that had draught 'throwing beer' for those outrageous parties he used to have. One night we made a bazooka from Beer cans. We had seven cans with the tops and bottoms cut off, taped together. The last can still had the bottom on but a small hole was made at the end. A tennis ball fits perfectly in the tube. With a small amount of lighter fluid and a match at the little hole, the first shot dissapeared accross the bar and smashed the window on the far side of the club. Mike was not too pleased and banished us outside with it. The second shot we lost the ball, it went clean over the hangar and dissapeared to the other side of the airport!
I remember in Cairo at some special doo, with all the dignitaries present, Mike finished his wine got pissed off with waiting for a refill so he ate the glass ate the roses on the table, then proceeded to suck up about 10 cream caramels in the same amount of seconds! During the display over the Nile in the centre of Cairo someone thought it would be a good idea to start the fountain in the river which shoots up to about 200 feet, straight into the middle of the display area!
Bob.

['Chuffer' Dandridge]

On-MarkBob,

PLEASE tell us some more stories! And if you have the pictures too, then I'm sure somebody will help you to put them on this thread for all to see..

[treadigraph]

Welcome Bob, and keep the stories coming!

I'd be pleased to help you post the pics - PM me to discuss how we can go about it

I've just had the pleasure of watching "The Airshow", "Wings in the Sun", the Rothmans promo film, as well as another chnace to see "Man in the Sky". Superb! Looked like the trip to Cairo was fun!

Cheers,

Treadders

[EGBKFLYER]

Anyone that fancies a go in S2A G-WREN should ring up NSF at Sibson - the aircraft has been on the school fleet for a while and does great trade... Sadly not in her Rothmans colours any more but she still has the diesel tank for the smoke...

I work for the (now merged) Rothmans organisation. Shame we can't sponsor anything like an aeros team any more, though there are still a number of posters etc round the office.:D

[hotstart54]

Hi Bob - Norman,

I heard about this thread from one of my colleagues today. 'Glad to see you are still around. You forgot Dave Fenton in your roundup of engineers from '77, is he still about? ;-) I hope that John Brobyn still walks the earth with his unique take on life. There can be few who understand aeroplanes as 'JB' does. Happy days in the CFC before we kicked of for Africa and I will never forget the ride on the back of your Harley!
It is a great shame we all never stayed in touch better than we did, I missed David and Marcus' farewell and regret it deeply. 'Tempus' does indeed 'Fugit' and maybe we all ought to get together before too long; there are many interesting faces still around and to miss the opportunity would be a shame.
You are right, there is an enormous archive of material buried in dusty cardboard boxes and I would love to collate the stories or even write the book, perhaps a collaboration? The material would make for an excellent read if it were stitched together in the right way.

Historical gap filling:- Teeside - formed late 1977

Team 1
Bob Thompson, Marcus Edwards, George Smith (Finn), David Perrin.

Islander Support Aircraft/Team Manager - Me

Engineers
David Fenton, Bob Lee (spare A/C Pilot), John Brobyn, Dilip Patel, Frank Wykes. Les Scattergood.
Home Team at Anvil.
Mike Dent was Chief Engineer for Anvil Aviation, he was in charge of the Flying Club servicing that Bob Thomspon had started and support for both teams while they were away.

George crashed from a spin which he entered from the inverted on base. It didn't happen on display but during the recovery to land after a Feathers (upward) Burst. I (we) believe that the spin was deliberate and used to position himself as he was high after the burst. I saw it as a positive flick entry and believe he cocked up the exit having missed the line one too many times. I had dinner with George the night before and we talked at length about his plans post RAT. Anyone who knew him would testify to the fact that he was unique, he certainly had talent and a bundle of qualities. Was it really twenty eight years ago?
'Finn', (Mike Findlay) replaced George in Lanzarote at short notice from his 'day job' in France renovating cottages with the occasionally flit to the Sudan to spray crops. The last time I heard from Finn he was with British Aerospace teaching where I understand he was very highly thought of.

Team 2. 1978-80
Mike Cairns, Rod Rea, Alan Dix, Brian Lecomber (Andy Warbridge - spare a/c pilot)
Bob Ruskell, Andy Legge, Pete Jones.

As I remember Mike Cairns Joined Team 1 for the Greek and first Middle East Tour. He flew as No.3 Dave Perrin No.4. When the second team was formed he took over as team leader team two, and Alan Dix became No.3 team one. Mike Finn flew in the No.4 position working up in Dubai during the first ME Tour.

I was trained to follow into the team but sadly I missed a chance whilst away on tour and never took my place as Rothmans sponsorship ceased in '80; any slot that I might have taken evaporated. Following Mike C in the '2 slot' was a riot; I almost lost control several times laughing at his 'twitch'. What a character and talent, he could turn his hand to anything; we met for the occasional sherbet in the mid eighties when he was in the Prestwick area spraying detergent on the sea. I gather he lost his license (it must have due to something he ate) and worked for British Aerospace (Prestwick) as a simulator instructor helping the next generation on it's way. I have flown with a number of them and they speak with respect and fondness for the skill and the kindness he showed them during their time in his care. Mike departed this life in the US, I believe from a heart attack. I doubt we will see his like again.

I left RAT 1 in Cairo in 1980 toward the close of the Middle East Tour after training my replacement. I joined the Royal Oman Police Air Wing in Muscat for three years and after a circuitous route through the Charter world, joined BA in '89 onto the Tri-Star. The -400 and a spell on the 737-400 followed and I am now back in LH enjoying the 777. I write this in the early hours of Saturday morning in the 'Inn at the Ballpark' in Houston before the ride home this afternoon.

Take care Bob, what an excellent thread! Probably the most memorable years of my life.

[email protected]

PS: I edit this as old info floods back into an addled brain (or my pals remind me).

[hotstart54]

PS: Graham was from the 'Pre-Anvil' era, he may have been on the team during the latter part of the Stampe or the Pitts. When we met him he was instructing in Dubai for the UAE Air Force flying both the -260 and the Macchi. He was instrumental in the arrangements for our 'hosting' by the Air Force in Dubai. I have no idea where he is now.

[Regis Potter]

I used to work with Graham Rutson at Oxford about 6 years ago. Iain Weston (sadly departed) was there as well.

[On-MarkBob]

Welcome aboard Norman, thanks for helping me out. Rmember Guinea Bissau? We were flying up the coast of Africa and we didn't have a clearance to overfly Guinea Bissau. It was quite a problem since they were reputed to be hostile. A decision was made to fly around it out to sea. However, we were still concerned that they might attack us since our formation may have been mistaken for an airforce. What Norman may not remember or even know is that those of us with a Pitts to fly were not too concerned, we rekoned that we could outmanoeuvre most of what the Bissau airforce could muster, our concern was very much for Norman and the Islander with the rest of the support crew on board. We figured that if we were to be attacked it was most likely they would go for the big prize! neadless to say we made it OK without incident.
I am deeply sorry to hear about Mike Cairns, RIP Mike. If there was ever a naughty boy in the team it was Mike, he was naughty! I remember that the Sheriton Hotel in Dubai had this water feature which cascaded water down from the seating area in the lobby. The water eventually dropped a whole floor level to the restaurant by way of a waterfall. One night Mike emptied a whole packet of soap powder into it. The consequences were spectacular. Most of the hotel staff were suddenly employed to repel a wall of soap suds from entering the restaurant. Eventually someone turned it all off and it had to be completely drained and re-filled.

Bob.

[On-MarkBob]

Hi Treaders,
If you could help me gets some pics on, it would be nice to do. If you can send me an E-Mail to my mailbox listed above (previous string) I could send you some picture files. I would also give you some idea what each pic is about and what was going on.

kind regards,

Bob.

['Chuffer' Dandridge]

Graham Rutson was a Flight Ops Inspector for the CAA at Gatwick last time I saw him, about a year or two ago. Not sure if he's still there.

[JW411]

On-MarkBob:

Send me a PM and I will reunite you with Rod.

[rodthesod]

Hi Bob, Norman et al,

Great thread! I considered joining last year but thought interest had waned. Thanks JW411 for putting me in touch with Bob - why people chose me as a best man, or even godfather, heaven knows.:\ Thanks Jabberwok for the nice pic of me in G-BADY attacking the tower at, I believe, Ronaldsway - did you take it?
It was interesting to read the different versions of the 'Threadneedle'. Tim Mills (9th Feb 2004) describes the version we did with Marcus as leader although we pulled up to about 70 degrees before bunting to the same angle of climb and reversing back to a second opposition with No4. The trim change was horrific in the bunt from about 90 to 190mph at the bottom and the trim lever was far too far away in my state of terror. The first time Marcus and I practiced this as a pair with me in the 2 slot, he was so surprised and mesmerised to see me still in close at the end of the bunt he forgot to pull until we'd passed through the vertical. There followed a distinct lack of airspeed and ideas and we both auto-rotated, him to the right and me to the left. The image of his Hartzell and spinner head-on and about 6ft from mine is permanently etched in my memory bank. By the time either of us had regained sufficient composure to speak on the radio we were 20 miles distant and diverging! Would love to see more pics - my last ex-wife destroyed most of mine.

[jabberwok]

Thanks Jabberwok for the nice pic of me in G-BADY attacking the tower at, I believe, Ronaldsway - did you take it?

Indeed I did. Here's a longer sequence from the June '79 display..

http://www.homepages.mcb.net/bones/WebPix/rothmans5.jpg
Someone got seriously ribbed for not having smoke on but I forget who..

http://www.homepages.mcb.net/bones/WebPix/rothmans.jpg

http://www.homepages.mcb.net/bones/WebPix/rothmans6.jpg
Pretty close to the tower..

http://www.homepages.mcb.net/bones/WebPix/rothmans4.jpg
http://www.homepages.mcb.net/bones/WebPix/rothmans1.jpg
http://www.homepages.mcb.net/bones/WebPix/rothmans3.jpg

[jabberwok]

I only have one shot from June 1980.. Was that the year strong winds stopped the display?

http://www.homepages.mcb.net/bones/WebPix/rothmans7.jpg

[treadigraph]

Right, here are On-MarkBob's photos, with his descriptions!:

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q248/treadigraph/roth1.jpg
I believe we were in transit from Kota Kinabalu to Tawau crossing the virgin rain forest. We had to fly high to get over the foothills of Mt. Kinabalu which rises to 14,000 feet. That's me in BADZ with Rod Rea in BADY on my right wing. Taken from the Islander by John Brobyn. Interestingly, Rothmans gave us all parachutes for the crossing as the only realistic method of survival should we have an engine failure and end up having to crash land in the tops of the trees!

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q248/treadigraph/roth2.jpg
This is the Islander over the sea off Guinea Bissau in the story I have just told on earlier on this thread.

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q248/treadigraph/roth3.jpg
Here's G-SOLO just before it's maiden flight at Teesside Airport. I don't have the negative and the print is now well worn! The chap with the interesting barnet is me!

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q248/treadigraph/roth4.jpg
The team: Alan Dix, George Powell (Rothmans Rep), Rod Rea, Marcus Edwards and Brian Lecomber. Location is somewhere in Malaysia. Note the PSP below the feet (pierced steel planking) that played havoc with the tail wheels. I had to fly one of the Pitts into Singapore to have it welded back on after it broke off taking part of the rudder post with it.

[RiskyRossco]

Not wanting to be a butt-in-ski or such, but I'm thoroughly enjoying the thread. Have no connections to the team or a/c except one small detail.
I picked up four 1/72nd plastic kitsets by "LS" way way back, probably mid 80s, of the Rothmans Pitts. Come time for a break after one or two major kit projects I'm finally going to finish them.
I still think the blue & white scheme surpasses much of the red stuff I've seen these days.
Many thanks for the pics, fellers. Major help.
:ok: :D

[On-MarkBob]

Hi, RiskyRossco,
If you need the colours for your models they are:- Fiat Orient Blue, Ford Olympic Blue, Ford Diamond White, and Mid Chrome yellow. Even after all these years they are forever etched in my memory. Funny how we can remember such crap and the names of the people I shared a little of my life with I find difficult. Since I got involved with all this I have now been in touch with Rod, Norman, JB and BT (Bob Thomson), Just a few more to dig up and we will be a full team again!!

Bob.

[RiskyRossco]

How kind of you, Bob! Thank you, dear Sir.
The kits have all the decals however, closer inspection of the photies tells me the yellow and dark blue are off by a fair bit.
Well, you live and learn.
:ok:

[grow45]

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e58/grow45/Pitts001_edited.jpg
A completed example of the LS Pitts. I think it is still available but with a Toyota sponsor set of transfers.
g45

[treadigraph]

Grow45, from distant mmory of that kit, your pic must be about 500% size! It's tiny...

I've seen the LS Rothmans kit available on a website that sells kits in the last few days if anyone wants one - PM me for details (I'll be back late this evening!)

[Tim Mills]

Great to see this thread back on top, splendid stories from after my time, and those pictures took me back thirty two years or so!

I'm glad someone else was terrified doing the dreaded formation bunt, rodthesod, I thought it was just me. I must admit, we never got up to the near vertical again before pulling through, so far as I remember, and am quite glad we didn't. I nearly did when leading David Perrin through a practice shortly after he joined us. He seemed to be coping so well that I thought about it, but sensibly never did, for reasons rodthesod mentions. But David was a natural, even then, and would have coped, as he did like a duck to water when he took over from Neil Williams in the team. Very nice young chap, and a great loss.

If I knew how, I would post a picture of the suave sophisicates of the 74 team, to compare with the rough old lot who came later! Great pictures, thanks.

Tim (Blue 3, as was )

[RiskyRossco]

Yep, grow, that there be the critter. And, yepyep, she don't take much space. Since splashing paint on the first one my skills have improved and the stripes will look a whole heap neater.

[rodthesod]

RiskyRossco & Grow45

For your models RAT , certainly in my time, never used the optional sliding canopies - we 'ad it tough in them days. Seriously, too much trouble to open if we had to exit in a hurry.

Tim Mills

Thanks, I thought I was alone in my fear. The box slow roll used to get a bit hairy at times too. I got seriously close to Marcus on occasions and I think we once may have touched. As No2 I was always short of rudder power as airspeed decayed in the last 1/4 and, in the early days, I sensed the ground was a bit too close as I skidded out of position.
The Hairyside always followed a loop to gain entry speed and the whole thing, including initial climb and No4 rejoin took too long so we dropped it in favour of a complete vic outside loop. No4 did a mini-solo while we climbed, and it was a doddle for him to rejoin when we were back on top of the bunt with low speed. We did the full looping display if we had 1100ft cloudbase, but I always sensed the proximity of grass/water when we bottomed out.
Yes, Dave P was fantastic (RIP) and he could do it all without exceeding any limits unlike at least one of his notable predecessors.

[treadigraph]

Tim, send me your pic, I'll happily add it to the collection in my hidden company directory! (They'll suss me one day...) [email protected]

[djpil]

If I knew how, I would post a picture of the suave sophisicates of the 74 team, to compare with the rough old lot who came later! Great pictures, thanks.
Tim (Blue 3, as was )
If treadigraph runs out of room (or when the boss finds out what he's doing!), send the pics to me and I'll put them on the web for you. I was at Cranfield College at the time and saw many of your displays - at the time I thought "I must get one of those" and did. I went on to lead a Pitts formation aerobatic team down here for a while.
You guys were an inspiration to a whole generation.

[Tim Mills]

Thanks Treaders and djpil, in fact pprune pop had already offered, and I sent them to him, with many thanks. Maybe he will put them on if he thinks they are worth it, quality not all that hot, I'm afraid.

I see your team, djp, was in 1980, how did it go? I used to visit Luskintyre, near Maitland in the early 90s, when I was doing ground school lecturing at the Cessnock flying school. They had four Pitts, I think, ex Jordanian if I remember, but I never knew if they formed a team there; I know one of the chaps there used to give an excellent individual display in one of them.

Rod, fun wasn't it, the box slow roll I mean. Of course I never tried it as No2, but certainly found the ground looking rather close as we went into it, and still can't really work out how it all worked as No3, but don't lose sleep over it these days!

Oh well, aged ride on, and even older tractor these days, quite exciting enough!

Tim


And as promised here are a few of Tims' pics:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/captainavi8tor/RAT1.jpg
Taken by Flight photographer flying with MIke Finlay No2 position, Iain Weston leading, self No3
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/captainavi8tor/RAT2.jpg
Briefing by Iain, self looking apprehensive, Mike looking relaxed.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/captainavi8tor/RAT3.jpg
Left to right, self, Mike, unknown (apologies to whoever), Iain, Manx in characteristic attitude and humour!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/captainavi8tor/RAT5.jpg
Suave sophisticates during visit to give displays over Monte Carlo. Neil Williams shaking hands with Prince Rainier and hiding Mike. Also present Iain and self, and Gregory Peck and friend amazed at meeting these celebrities! During the visit, Neil took Princess Grace for a flight, and Iain flew Princess Caroline, they enjoyed it.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/captainavi8tor/RAT6.jpg
Team over Monaco harbour, Iain in front, Mike No2, self No3, and Neil in the box. Shortly after this Neil had to leave and David Perrin joined, flying No2 (as though he had been doing it all his life ), with Mike going to No4 and doing all the clever bits Neil used to do.

Tim, Perhaps you can click 'edit' and just add narrative as you would like. PPP

[djpil]

Our team earned a lot of money for our club and was successful for many years. A tragic accident a few years after I left.
The guys at Maitland didn't do any formation aeros that I'm aware of. Phil does a great display. We'll probably discuss this again over a bottle of red this weekend at the national championships.
Somewhere I have some Super 8 movies of your displays. I distinctly recall that box slow roll at Paris ('75?), it looked difficult.

[Tim Mills]

Thanks djpil, and please give Phil my regards if you see him. He probably won't remember me, I was the chap with the whistful expression wandering about the hangar full of Pitts and lovely reconditioned Tiger Moths. We did talk of my Rothmans time,and he asked me our display sequence. I couldn't remember it well and so I'm afraid was not much help. I do remember his display, I think he practiced over Cessnock now and again. Splendid.

I wasn't in the team when it went to Paris, only did one year, 74, and having had my fun thought I ought to get a proper job! That and a mutual agreement with Manx that my suddenly becoming a grandfather wasn't exactly the youthful image required!

That roll, difficult to start with, but became routine with practice. Being on the inside of the roll to the left, I worried about the first half, and delighted to see Rodthesod hated the last bit, when the ground was rather adjacent to him as No2!

[kevmusic]

As a raw newcomer to flying training, I remember in '81 drinking long into the night with John Maclean & Marcus Edwards at Sunderland Flying Club, after they'd given me a flip each, with full routine :} :D. They could only use one of their Pittses - G-BDKS; the other being grounded with a tailwheel problem.

RIP, gentlemen.

Kev

[Tim Mills]

Many thanks PPP, captions now on pictures in Post 160; one a bit like a gossip mag, I'm afraid!

[djpil]

Sorry Tim, his memory is fading.
He did recall (despite trying to forget) a flight in a Tiger in the UK and has a letter from the CAA as a momento. Some-one threatened to transport him to the colonies.

[On-MarkBob]

I can’t tell you how fantastic it is to see your pictures Tim. It was your team that inspired me in my early years. I never met you personally but when I joined the team in 1977 your team were already legends and heroes of mine. I first met Neil Williams when I was working for Rogers Aviation at Cranfield. He came in for fuel in an S1 Pitts. Having filled him up I was asked to swing the prop for him. Always difficult to start was a half hot injected Lycoming! The Hangar foreman had a fit and told me I couldn’t do it. For God’s sakes! I had gone solo on a J3 cub and was the Tug pilot at Dunstable on Chipmunks, swinging props was a way of life! Neil, however, spotting trouble, sat me in the Pitts and swung the prop himself. After that I knew I had to be a part of it. Neil died a few years later in the Cassa 111 out of Cuatro Vientos. His death to me was like the death of Donald Campbell must have been to those a few generations earlier.

I saw your team for the first time at Old Warden, I had borrowed the tug from the Gliding club and arrived at the field, girl on my arm and as young as I was you could see the envy in the eyes of some of the crowd! As we were air-side we had ring-side seats and I will never forget Mike Finlay cutting the ribbon inverted.

What is most humbling about all of this, is that thousands of people would give their right arm to just meat their Heroes and those that inspire them. I not only did that but my Heroes became my colleagues and indeed my friends and I shared with them some very personal moments. I laughed with them and shed a tear with them once or twice as well.

Bob.

[djpil]

Bob,
I was at Cranfield 74-75. Neil brought the Zlin in a few times, I don't recall him bringing the Pitts. I was a regular at Old Warden too.

[On-MarkBob]

Yes indeed! it was a lovely little red number! Pitts S1. I can't remember the exact date or year for that matter.
What were you doing at Cranfeild? since we we obviously there at the same time.

[djpil]

Student - aerodynamics, flight test & design subjects.
Did a bit of gliding, bit in the Condor and the Pups. Tiger at Cambridge.
Engineering exercises in the Jetstream & Paris.

[On-MarkBob]

DJPIL...Gosh! that brings back some memories! Those noisy Jetstreems I remember well, but I had forgotton about the Paris Jet. Do you remember the TSR II and the Bolton+Paul Delta wing prototype?

Bob.

[Tim Mills]

Just got back from a most enjoyable week down the coast with Mrs T escaping the grandchildren, so have only just seen your post, Bob. So glad you liked the pictures, courtesy of PPP, and many thanks for your kind comments. I suspect you enjoyed your time with the team as much as I did, one of the treasured memories of my aviating life, not only because of the flying but also the chaps.

I had known Iain since being at Cranwell together, and Manx and I were on the same Canberra squadron together, so that was a good start. I had of course heard of Neil, but never met him, and did not know Mike before. And then David Perrin, of whom I have spoken before, lovely chap, great loss. Can't imagine a better bunch to be with.

Neil mentioned my name to the Falcon Jet company he part timed for, and when I joined I inherited his set of Jeppesons after he was lost in Spain. Very sad, but many thanks to him for his introduction which led to fifteen odd years of happy employment.

No worries, djpil, I'm not surprised Phil didn't remember the odd chap from those days, but wouldn't mind hearing the Tiger Moth story one day!

[old fart]

Hi folks,
Not exactly on thread but a nice recollection of Marcus Edwards.
We were all instructors at the RJAA(Royal Jordanian Air Academy)
Lee Jones was the boss and had organised a 12 ship formation display in Wadi Rum for the benefit of Flight magazine. Lee was not renowned for high flying and the whole thing was pretty hairy, especially if you were on the outside as i was. Anyway the pictures got taken and it was a very succesful day. On the way back up to Amman we were tailchasing through the wadi's, Markus with one of the Flight team on board. It was a warm day and he had the canopy of his Bulldog open. You can probably guess the rest. At some point they were inverted (much more fun!) and all the film, cameras etc were dropped somewhere in the desert. I guess they are still there because they were never found. The only momento of the day were some pic's taken from the ground in Wadi Rum. If I remember correctly, one of these made it into the magazine.
Happy Days!!
PS If anyone has a copy of the picture I would much appreciate it!
Cheers
Old Fart

[pulse1]

I get the impression that everyone who flew with Marcus has an interesting tale to tell. For me, one of several was when he destroyed a boyhood illusion which formed when I saw the members of the Red Pelicans sipping orange juice at an air display in Cardiff. I was in awe of their keen blue eyes and perfect complexions. To me they looked like gods.

Twenty years later I was in the right seat of a Red Pelican JP5 with Marcus in the left seat and, at the hold, I looked across at his blood shot eyes over the oxygen mask and wondered. At the end of a most memorable flight we walked into the bar at Little Rissington and the steward looked up and asked "Same again sir?". To be fair, he was on leave at the time and only came to work to take me up. RIP.

[paul zebedee]

embarking on a search for information about the Stolp Acroduster Too, I happened upon this thread. I was so intrigued, I decided to add my humble piece of information.

In 1979, whilst beginning my PPL at Teesside, I was smitten by a Rothmans Pitts S2A weaving its way along the taxyway. A little like Toad from Wind in The Willows, all else was completely forgotten until this thing of beauty passed by. I wanted one!

About the same time as I gained my PPL, I heard that Rothmans had decided to withdraw their sponsorship of the team and the operating company, Anvil Aviation, was to shut down its operation at Teesside. During 1981, Bob Thompson was temporarily based at Teesside and frequented the Cleveland Flying Club. During one of his visits to the club I asked him if it would be possible to have some aerobatic instruction from him in the Pitts he had retained. There followed about five hours instruction, with me, as happy as a dog with two wotsits, finally being supervised through a basic sequence of loops, rolls of the top, slow rolls, fourpoint rolls, stall turns and cuban eights, all at quite a low level. Then Bob showed me a similar sequence how it should be done and at a considerably lower level! Bliss!
I'll never forget some of the interesting things we got up to, with and without smoke.

The aircraft I flew in was G-BGSE and I think it was virtually brand new. Many years later, for my 40th birthday, I treated myself to a session of aerobatics with Alan Cassidy at White Waltham. The aircraft was, as I recall, G-TIII. What I didn't know then was that it was G-BGSE re-registered.

Having had a long period away from flying, I decided in 2004 to return to chase my dream of flying aerobatics and acquired myself a Pitts S1, G-OKAY. After several hours of re-acquainting myself with tailwheel aircraft and being checked out in an S2, I fulfilled my 25 year old dream and took to the air in my very own Pitts. Dreams can often turn into nightmares and mine did so on this occasion. I made several mistakes which culminated in a crash landing on my first flight. Yes, I was the twit who damaged the ex - Marlboro Pitts S1. I'm now flying another aerobatic biplane and one day I will have another Pitts. Next time, however, it will be the one I should have had, an S2A. The dream hasn't died.

Several years ago, I contacted Rothmans and acquired some copies of photographs of the team. They are similar to those that have been posted, so I don't think they would contribute anything new. Something that might be of interest, however. Around 1979 - 1981, I believe one of the team's aircraft suffered an engine problem and had to carry out a forced landing. I think Brian Lecomber was the pilot. I'm sure there was a photograph of the aircraft inverted on the ground published in the Northern Echo. One day, when I have little else to do, I might search this out.

[treadigraph]

Welcome to PPRuNe Paul, great post!

There was an entertaining "I learned about Flying From That" by the excellent Mike Riley in Pilot a few years back about his first flight in the Aerobatics International Pitts G-AZPH. I can't recall the technical specifics, but suffice to say the prop parted company with the rest of the airframe, and with just a few minutes on type and no landings under his belt, Mike had to squeeze it into a small paddock. Which ended with the Pitts on its back! I know it's in the pile of recently re-read mags, I'll see if I can find it again...

By the way, I think 'ZPH is inverted again, hanging from the roof of the Science Museum!

[On-MarkBob]

We had a number of engine failures! Those engines worked very hard. The incident in question (Paul Zebedee above) happened in 1979 I think, but it wasn't an engine failure! We had flown all the way back from the Canaries after a short tour over there. The same tour that George Smith crashed and died. It took a number of days to fly home and we had some exciting moments. Going into Rennes in France the cloud base was too low, so we followed the Islander in close (Very Close) formation and followed it down the ILS. when the runway came into view the Islander did a go-around and we all landed on the runway at the same time. The Air traffic controller wasn't expecting that and went ballistic! Screeming down the radio that we were not allowed to do that, Bob Thomson simply pressed the TX and said casually "well we're not taking off again".

We arrived in England at Lydd and cleared customs, well sort of. The customs chaps had a baby over the amount of Rothmans Cigarettes we had on board the Islander. "We're the Rothmans team, for gods sakes, what did you expect!" They told us we would have to pay duty on them so we said they could keep them. They couldn't do that so in the end they just told us to take our fags and piss off. Marcus, meanwhile, was giggling hysterically over a stupid joke I had told him about an Irish man who went to the drive-in cinema, didn't like the film so he slashed the seats. Anyway...

Approaching Teeside the weather was once again appalling, we were having real trouble getting even close. the Islander had gone off on some errand or other, so we were on our own, following Bob in a Bad Weather Battle formation. The whole thing was becoming impossible. I was number 2 behined Bob and Marcus was behined me, then Mike Finlay. Bob Thomson had to hop over some Pylons, I did the same and went into cloud. When I came back out Bob had dissapeared from sight and suddenly I was in the lead. Marcus came along side pointing in some direction but I gestured back that I was going down and landing. Field landings was something I knew I could do, I had been a Glider Tug pilot for a year or two. I found my field and was just about to land when I saw Mike Fin approching the same field from another direction. He hadn't seen me so I let him land and watched carefully! I followed him in. We were safe and having some kind of chat when Bob Thomson flew over, turned back and landed as well. Three Pitts in one field but where the hell was Marcus? Did you Guess? Yes that's it, he was upside down in another field! Apparently it was some kind of crop that looked like beautiful grass from the air but it was about two foot high. He hit the stuff and went clean over. He was very lucky. So remember, Tufts and turds! that's short grass anything else might overturn you!!

Bob Lee

[grow45]

By the way, I think 'ZPH is inverted again, hanging from the roof of the Science Museum!
That would be this one then:-
http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e58/grow45/London2004-Part2036.jpg
g45

[noveliste2000]

Hi Bob, Norman, Rod and all others here -

Amazing what you find when you scratch around on the net! It was an absolute delight to come across you guys here, especially since my time with the team(s) was undoubtedly the most enjoyable time of my entire working life to date.

It's Sue (Sue Brown as I was then), Promotions Executive from 1979 until Rothmans disbanded the teams in favour of returning to Formula 1 racing.
After staying with the company for another 12 months to set up an in-house publishing operation, I missed the buzz too much and moved on! I did stay in touch with Jeanne for a while, but lost contact when I moved to Australia in the mid-80s.

You're right, Norman, there should be a book! Reading these threads triggers so many memories - joining the team for the Greek tour; the Playboy 25th birthday party - remember that? Nor could I ever forget the rides on the Harley, Bob...

I've come to the conclusion that having any kind of contact with the team carries a certain kudos (and why wouldn't it?) wherever you are in the world. A couple of years ago, I accompanied a friend to a flying school at Bankstown, Sydney. He'd mentioned to his instructor that I'd worked with the team - and did I get attention! Not only did I get quizzed for just about everything I could remember, but one of the guys took me up for a joyride in a Cessna and proceeded to take me through a series of stall turns and barrel rolls. I had to remind him that my job had been on the ground - unaccustomed as I am to G-force, it's a bloody good thing he didn't keep me up there for too long!

Such a shame that Rothmans pulled the plug and the proposed Australasian tour never got off the ground (pardon the pun) - it would have been a blast.

Anyway, great to know you're here, and all respect to the memory of those who are no longer with us. Now where did I put all my old photos...?

Cheers, Sue ;)

[[email protected]]

[HappyJack260]

Well if you're suffering long-term withdrawal symptoms from the Pitts I've got a lovely S-2C at Camden....
http://images.google.com.au/imgres?imgurl=http://www.airborne-aviation.com.au/aircraft/pics/pitts-s2c.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.airborne-aviation.com.au/aircraft/&h=150&w=200&sz=11&tbnid=oa8jn2A-FS70IM:&tbnh=74&tbnw=99&hl=en&start=4&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpitts%2Bs2c%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa %3DG

[noveliste2000]

Indeed she IS lovely, HappyJack - I might have to pop down and take a closer look one of these days!

[kluge]

Wow - can't believe this thread - and can't sleep either.

Grew up watching the Rothmans team at Finningley air displays and saw some of the Marlboro team a/c at Booker in the mid 80's.

Great to read the Aussie connections. I have time on some Pitts out of Bankstown and Camden that I believe are still around. I flew them over 10 yrs go now. I miss Pitts flying.

VH-FFF S2A - I still have an "award" from ground looping it in 93. Ouch !
VH-PIG S2S ex Royal Jordian AF aerobatic team. Awesome.
VH-ZZZ S2B - the infamous 'indoor Pitts' - had the tailwheel seize up and dig a rut in the Camden runway. Stopped pretty quick though !

As has been written - "there is nothing, absolutely nothing like flying a Pitts Special".

To the guys who flew with RAT - it's all your fault ! Ask my mum.

[HappyJack260]

Aussie Pitts

VH-FFF - so-called because the owner reckoned that "if it flies, floats or f***s, it's cheaper to rent than to buy") is still at Bankstown. It's been somewhat in the wars over the years. Apart from that ground loop, a student managed to taxi it into the tailplane of another aircraft on the taxiway; then the owner had a mid-air collision with another Pitts during a mock dogfight and the operator got pinged by CASA for under-recording the hours and ordered to increase logbook times by 40% or so.
VH-PIG - still at Bankstown, though it spent several years in the hangar until the owner could afford a new engine. I believe it's operating now.
VH-ZZZ - now in Victoria (Morrabbin, I think).
Camden has the Pitts S-2C (VH-JAX) and a Pitts S-2B (VH-TKV). I've flown them both, and whilst I have to admit to being biased, I'm a great fan of the S-2C. It's a little easier to land (but still quite a different proposition compared to the average trainer) and the 3-blade prop and improved controls make it feel significantly more powerful and higher performance than the 'B.
You should take a flying holiday in Sydney - park yourself in the B&B across the road from Camden airfield, and come and get some serious hours on the Airborne Aviation S-2C. 2- 3 hours a day and you'd be back up to speed in no time!

[kluge]

HappyJack260

Why thank you. Next time I'm down I will definately look you up.

K

[Tim Mills]

Tempting, very tempting Happy Jack, but I find it hard enough to get in and out of a Ford Falcon these days, so Pitts is out of the question and will have to rely on my 30+ years memories! Yours looks lovely, and has rather more poke than the ones I remember, must be even more fun. Will call in if passing to have a look. All the best.

Noveliste 2000, good to know another ex Rothmans member is here in this fair land, though I left well before you joined. I do just remember Jeanne. Happy days.

Tim

[djpil]

We must arrange to get together in NSW sometime and tell more stories.
PS: VH-ZZZ is now in Brisbane.

[7gcbc]

There's also VH-OXX, an s2a at Bankstown by the same outfit as FFF, (currently sponsored by Redbull) so I'm not sure if that precludes it from rental.

[kristof]

Hi,

I'm A pilot for TNT airways and have flown a lot of times with rod rea.

Sadly he went to pension, because i liked flying with the guy. I know he's now living in turkey and hopefully enjoying his time off in the sun.

If someone has made contact with him, say hello from kristof.

By the way, my best mate has got a great picture from you guy's in his living room.

Formation foto taken on the top of a loop, and signed buy the guys.

best regards

Kristof

[hotstart54]

Rod is well and kite surfing and selling property in Turkey. Give him a little time and he will pop up I have no doubt.

[Morane]

Hello to all,

it took some time, till I recogniced that this thread is still alive. Had to read many pages. Nice to hear from Bob Lee, builder of G-SOLO.
As I postet 2 years ago, G-SOLO is here in southern Germany.
It was stored since the late 90's and his permit to fly expired.
Sadly it was not possible to renew the british permit to fly.
My friend Hermann tried it in 2004. In 2005 he tried a N-reg. which
also failed. Now it's in the german reg as D-ESHS but still not in the air.
I will post some pictures when it's back in the air.

I am very interested in the history of G-SOLO.
All info welcome.

Regards
Joachim

[whifferdill]

Been reading this thread with great interest after searching for info on the Rothmans Team - who I've now become fascinated with. Managed to get hold of a copy of 'Man in the Sky' along with other short Rothmans related films after reading this thread - watch it when I can't fly. What a fantastic team! It's a real pity there are no Pitts display teams operating full time in the UK now. It's a superb display machine and now has that growing 'vintage' appeal combined with a performance that in the right hands, can still hold its own with the modern Carbon Fibre machines.

For me, gazing skyward at a Pitts display by Brian Lecomber as a boy, was an experience that seemed to linger in the pit of my stomach to adulthood. it's great to read the stories by those involved with the Rothmans and display flying in general over the last 30 years - your experiences are the envy of other pilots. I have a Pitts S1-D now - culmination of a long held dream and I'm getting to grips with the basics - go to sleep at night designing sequences I have no chance of performing! Still, one day! Give me a few years and I might be posting to start another all Pitts team myself!

hats off to you old bold guys.

[rodthesod]

whifferdill

Stick with it and don't be pessimistic. In my 2 years with RAT I must have watched Brian fail to perform 100's of sequences. He got to be very good through years of painstaking practice, and after 2 years almost hacked formation flying (sorry Brian, couldn't resist that). I hope you do start another team, but you'd do better with more power-to-weight than the S2A.

Regards,

rod

[Tim Mills]

Thanks Whifferdill, only there for a year and still remember the thrill of it all. Enjoy yourself, all the best.

Tim

[whifferdill]

Thanks to rodthesod and Tim Mills for the encouragement - I will stick with it, and the S1D. Plenty of inspiration for me reading this thread. My S1 is a great little machine with plenty of room for me to grow into, performance wise, at the moment. Be a good while I think, before I'll be needing more performance than that! A constant speed prop would be nice though........can't even open up full straight and level without overspeeding.

All the best

[hotstart54]

Overspeed in straight and level with full power, now there is an interesting concept. Does that mean you have to work at not climbing during your sequence then whifferdill? BTW, your handle was one of David P's favourite expressions.

[fantom]

Well, several names here.
Someone wrote that Cairns was a 'naughty boy'. You have no idea how naughty; I had the room next to him in RAF Bruggen, Germany. Got no sleep for about three months.
I worked for Dixie when I joined Airworld and I still 'phone him every week. He looks exactly the same as in the piccy but he is twice the girth.
John Connor works for the same outfit as I.
Good stories from you all !

[hotstart54]

Cairns..... god bless him. He is drinking pints of Bacardi Coke with St Peter as we speak and shagging every angel he can get his hands on. I oubt there will be another like him again though few will know what a kind hearted soul he was. Clever too, particularly with his hands; such a practical guy.

No saint for sure but a one off.

[slackie]

VH-PIG is now resident in Hamilton, NEW ZEALAND. Has been getting a good workout over the last couple of weeks.

Oh to be "semi retired" and have your "toy" readily available!!!

[Phil Space]

Just discovered this thread late despite being a regular pprune reader.

I was in the Royal Selandor Flying Club, Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia last year and the RATS are still featured in pictures on the walls of the club despite the years gone by. For me is was a reminder of my novice flying days in 1981 when I first got the flying bug thanks to a chance meeting with Marcus Edwards in a pub in Bridgend South Wales. This led to me meeting John Mclean but the most influencial figure from the RATS was Bob Lee.
We were close friends for a few years during his time as chief engineer at Cambrian Engineering and I have happy memories of times he took me as ballast test flying the Vixen 2 Pitts or just the many ferry flights he put my way.

He rebuilt my first aircraft, G-ARRP, still flying but now as G-LIZI.

Marcus was a superb person to have in any bar after a days flying. "Matey" was his way of addressing his friends as he stood with a pint in his hand. Vixen 2 were Marcus and John McLean flying their old RATS ships. Paul Layzel (now Touchdow Aero Centre Old Buckenham) got them work flying for Jaguar and BMW I seem to recall.

I still have a video of Marcus and John which they did for Polydor records.
I was a deejay on a morning BBC Radio Wales programme and Polydor needed
a couple of aircraft to do a 3.5 minute video for a Song titled Out Of This World for a group called Shakatak for Top of the Pops. Vixen 2 did the job
from an airstrip near Bristol. (remember that Bob?)

They were superstars in Malaysia judging by the albums in the flying club at KL. They clogged all the roads with punters coming to see their displays.

Marcus had a black labrador and he gave me a pup which became a fond companion for many years.

I understand Bob Lee left the engineering biz and became a full time pilot which is where I always knew his calling was.

[whifferdill]

Late reply, but.....

No, it just means I have to start throttling back when the airspeed gets much above 140mph.

[On-MarkBob]

I thought this thread was gone, but I'm glad it's back. (if it ever went).
Just a quick and somewhat belated Hi to Mike F from the CFC, god did we have some fun with that old cherokee of yours, but that's another story. Also to Sue Br, over in Australia now it seems.

Well, I was in Cape Town a week ago and you'll never guess who I met down there, it was quite bizarre realy. The guys name is Martin Wilkens and not alot of you will know of him but he was the MD at Rothmans at the time of the team and the team was his 'baby'. I was invited to the Erinvale golf club for dinner by the mens Captain, and also sitting at the table is the golf clubs' president Martin Wilkens. It didn't mean anything at the time until we got talking. What a bloody coincidence! Anyway I thought I would pick his memory and find out why they pulled the plug. It turns out that he was desperate to keep the team going but was outvoted because of something going on in Belgium, from what I understood, but by that time the night was getting on a bit. He said that it turned out to be a big mistake and they should have kept the team. Anyway, water under the bridge. He sends his regards to all.

I've now been in touch with most of the leftovers from my old team, since this thread, it's been great to talk to and be in contact with them.


Keep the thread going all.

Regards, Bob Lee.

[one.two.go]

Fantastic thread.

I had the pleasure of being introduced to John Mclean in June 82. I had just managed to harness the fearsome power of a C150 and wobble round my first solo circuit, when John walked in during the de-brief. He then proceeded to strap me into the front of GBECM and show me what a real aeroplane can do in gifted hands. Gyros were toppled for days. It cost me a pint!

There used to be the John Mclean Trophy which was the first aeros competition of the season held at Bodders International. Is it still going?

Also managed to dig out my copy of Man in the Sky. Awesome! 12 year old daughter sat through it with her jaw on the floor.

[treadigraph]

Some of the excellent photos I posted on this thread for others have unfortunately disappeared with the demise of our old company website (now hosted by our parent co - so I can't take liberties any more!). Soon as I can gather the originals together, I will repost using my Photobucket account.

[hotstart54]

He then proceeded to strap me into the front of GBECM and show me what a real aeroplane can do in gifted hands.

John was good like that, he gilded an amazing day and framed it forever.

[F-BYAJ]

I found this thread by chance today, excellent reading. I got interested in the Rothmans' history since I bought Pitts S-2A s/n 2195, F-BYAJ, ex G-BGSD, in 1999. To my knowledge this is the only S-2A still in the RAT colours, without the "Rothmans" letters though. Unfortunately I only have the logbooks since the plane was registered in France in 1982, so I don't know much about her adventures with the RAT.
The plane is based near Toulouse, in the Southwest of France, and we teach aeros and occasionally participate in local contests and airshows. I'd be happy to offer a ride to any ex-Rothmans pilot in exchange for some stories.
http://flugzeugbilder.de/search4.cgi?srch=F-BYAJ&stype=reg&srng=2

For those of you interested in the whereabouts of the planes, another ex-Rothmans S-2A, F-GIIZ, ex G-BDKS, is based in Marmande, between Toulouse and Bordeaux.

[robin]

A friend tells me that BADZ is still at Exeter - tucked away at the back of a hangar with fabric stripped off. He told me that he had a whale of a time ripping off the Rothman's livery with a Stanley knife ready for a new life.

Unfortunately the initial enthusiasm for the rebuild swiftly died off, and nothing has happened to it for some years now.

[hotstart54]

G-BADZ was Marcus' aircraft. It flew in the first team reformed in 1977.

G-BDKS was Bob Thompsons aircraft.

Both leaders, Bob of the first team, Marcus of the second.

[Tim Mills]

Sad to hear of BADZ being in such a sad state. I think that was Manx Kelly's mount, when they changed from Stampes to Pitts in the early 70s. I certainly flew it several times, though my regular aircraft was BADX in the year I was with the team. Happy, and far off, days. Any chance of it flying again?

Thanks BYAG for the offer if I ever get to France again; doubtful though, and I'm not sure I could get into a Pitts these days!

[hotstart54]

Tim,
If memory serves me it was BADX that George crashed in Lanzarote. It remained there and we flew what was left of dear old George home.
Sorry to be the bringer of bad tidings....

[Tim Mills]

Thanks Hotstart, I had an idea BADX had come to grief, but where and when I had no idea. Very sad.

[On-MarkBob]

BADX crashed in Lanzarotte, it was the first ever air crash on the island. needless to say they were a little unprepared for it. It wouldn't have made any difference, George was well dead. I was the first team member at the scene, having persuaded the Fire Crew that this was for real and not part of the act, I jumped in the fire wagon with them and headed for the crash site just outside the airport perimeter at the end of the runway.

Richard Butler phoned me today, he just found the site, apparently Bob Thomson put him on to it. For those who don't know Richard was the tour manager for the team and came everywhere with us, it was great to hear from him and I hope he can get up to see me sometime, now that he's 'retarded', His words, not mine!

Hopefully this is going to be the start of 'The Book' !!! , so when you have read this far, Richard, get writing and let's see some of those millions of pictures you took!

Talking of pictures, does anyone know how to get the pictures back on the thread??? There must be a competant sole out there so please do us a big favour, somebody, please!

Rgs. to all, BOB.

[treadigraph]

Bob, thanks for the reminder... I have the pics (I hope) and the know how...

Bob's pics now back on this post (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2486117&postcount=149) - I will try and locate Aerohack's images from earlier in the thread, which are safely backe-up at work!

Aerohack's images now on line again at this post (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1298876&postcount=105) for anyone who missed 'em...

Now if I could just locate Milt's V-Force pic for BEagle's "Did you fly the tin triangle" thread of on Mil....

[hotstart54]

Mike Edwards (Marcus' son) and I are hatching a small but cunning plan. At the moment it is some eleven hours old having been born in 'The Cave' in Singapore in the early hours.
We are musing over a 'RATs of All Time' get together, probably somewhere like Booker for dinner and drinks. The format of the evening is by no means set and we are taking suggestions.

Questions rotate around the following. Is this a good idea? - and if it is......

Q/ Would this be a quiet social evening for just former team members or should it be (reasonably) open?
Q/ Should we tack a mini fly-in to it?
Q/ Should it be formal, based around a swimming pool or just be a 'renting party' with old flying suits only - freshly laundered?
Q/ Should we invite anyone specially?
Q/ Should we include an mini air display as part of the occasion?
Q/ Should we have the event timed to coincide with an air display?
Q/ Can you think of any other questions that might be pertinent?

ps: Some of these questions are intentionally rhetorical.

We might have communicated this suggestion privately but as this thread has it's own legs, I thought it would be fun to make the questions open and see what came back. Also we don't have contact details for all the personalities concerned.

Fire away!

Suggestions, here (it will be fun for us all to read them) and/or to my email here [email protected]

My Blog - post related (http://www.thedigitalaviator.com/blog/?p=360)

[petes1s]

RAT's of all time get together

If you did something like this to include a Pitts fly-in you would probably see rows of Pittses turn up.
White Waltham would be a great place to do it as both a social and flying venue. You can aerobat in the overhead at WW too...

[hotstart54]

Yep, I agree. WW would make a better venue. Not as historic to the team but certainly more practical for 'activities.' The clubhouse and restaurant are preety good too as I remember.

[G-KEST]

Norman,
Sounds a great idea. Count me in. I would go along with whatever the majority prefer but tend towards White Waltham as a venue.
Cheers,
Trapper 69 - Blue 2 (1971 season)

[hotstart54]

TF, you're on the list. I took down your details from your website.

Mike and I have been talking a little more about the plan. WW does look a far better venue. A number of other ideas in the pot. It is a shame that we didn't do this when I first suggested it to you, do you recall? It must have been fifteen years ago.
If anyone wants to be included please email me and I will add you to a block email 'Newsletter.'

[email protected]

[On-MarkBob]

Perhaps we could go commercial and get Rothmans to help pay for the gig. It's got to be worth some publicity somewhere, surely?

As for how big the gig should be, I think 'all of the above' should about cover it!

"We're not advertising cigarettes, your Honour, we're having a reunion party, surely the laws on advertising fags don't extend to having a party?, for gods sake......Ciggy, sorry, Rothmans anyone?"

[hotstart54]

Yes, Bob, we might be able to get Rothmans to stump up some cash. Trouble is, they might want to control the venue and conduct of the evening, do we want that as this is essentally about people, our people and not cigarettes.

Maybe they would send the money as a goodwill gesture and accept whatever happens in good spirit?

In short, yes a god idea that needs investigating.

Keeping well I hope Bob?

[rodthesod]

Hi All,

Great idea Norman - count me in. WW sounds good - even better with a Pitts fly-in. This is the first worthy excuse I've had to leave Turkey and visit UK since I left 3 years ago. Haven't been to WW since we operated the '79 Farnboro' displays out of there. That was the year that Sea Harriers melted tarmac on the active R/W and BA Concorde was asked to modify his display touch and go to a low approach. We sat in our hold waiting to tip in for our display listening to the whinings of BA Captainspeaking - he insisted that the commentator made it clear to the assembled masses that it would be a deliberate 'missed approach'. Needless to say he cocked it up and planted his Concorde firmly in the soft and sticky hole, writing off quite a few tyres in the process I believe.

All the best,
Rod

[hotstart54]

Whato' Rod,
Good to see you haven't burnt to a frazzle out there now been blown away with your kite. When would suit you (everyone) best? September any good?
WW is starting to look favorite I think.

Added later:

With the way this is shaping, this get together is going to happen in 2008.

[Big Jugs!]

Marcus Edwards's number 2 son here. As Norman has written, we met up, then operated back from Singapore together. The party/p**s up sounds like a great idea. Spoke to Bob Lee and he sugests trying to link it to an existing airshow.
Any stories about the old man are gratefully recieved at [email protected] and remember, after many thousands of hours listen to Marcus's stories, I know dits about all of you!
A few points I remember to clear up a few lose ends. Bob T and Marcus set up the Jubliee Duo in 1977 (the Queens Silver jubilee) with 2 S2As, (any pics? Interesting colour schemes!). They were as much surpised as anyone when Rothmans awarded them the contract to re-form the team. Bob led for the first year with Marcus as number 2. Bob's back (injured after leaving a JP I believe) led him to take more of a managers postion. Marcus then led the team till 1980 when it finished. Bob set up the second team, which Mike Cairns led.
George Smith died on the arrival routine. On the up burst, Marcus pushed out one way and George the other. Both then spun off height and then into land. Dad said he looked across when he recovered to watch George continue in. I believe it was then BECM was bought in as a replacement. Mike Findlay was called out of a semi rebuilt cottage in France and after 1 day in the Pitts was display ready.
On the return after the tour, Marcus put BADZ upside down in a field as told earlier. I still have the fabric reg which was on the team crew room wall. On the top read, Oats beets and Barly sortie. M Edwards. I know his spin on the story too!
When Marcus took the lead, he took BDKS as his mount. Being the least powerfull aircraft, it made the best lead. There was some inter change of aircraft with team 2 towards the end and he did use RKSF.
The slow roll in wedge (no 5 inverted over 4) was a sight to see. I know that dad didn't actually slow roll but did a tight inverted barrel roll to avoid the bomb burst talked about earlier. 1980 was the end of the team. Marcus and John Maclean bought BDKS and BECM to set up the Vixen Two. Marcus based in Cardiff and John in Bodmin(they would arrange a time and place and height to meet then fly on to the display). Andy Wallbridge got BADY and did instruction on it at Blackpool. After a few good years on the cct they decided to train Andy up in the third slot. On the last practice they had a mid air. I know the details but not the cause. Marcus continued for another couple of years. For a 2 ship, a second Pitts was borrowed and Dai Heather Hays flew it. Finally KS was sold. By this time I had graduated from urchin, through ground crew to ferry pilot. I flew KS on it's last flight to Bristol with Marcus in the front. After the departing beat up at Cardiff we were asked by ATC "Did you mean to do that?"

[Brian L]

Hi guys

One Nick Wakefield, who understands these electronic gizzmos, has introduced me to this site. I think I have logged into it - but then I have often thought I'd achieved something on a computer only to have it fold its arms and stare back at me blankly. So I hope this works.

May I come to a RAT re-union, please? A private party at WW sounds a great idea for starters.

I am still - if nothing has changed - in rather tenuous contact with Al Dix. Al had a bad accident - horse-riding, would you believe - a few years back, and has not flown since.

Best to all

Dwarf Rat

['Chuffer' Dandridge]

Welcome Brian, I still reckon you should put pen to paper and write the history of the RAT:ok:

[treadigraph]

Chuffer, an excellent suggestion. How about it Brian?

Cheers

Treadders

[PHbiggles]

I remember the Rothman's team coming to the UAE and displaying at Jeble Ali Beach in 1979. An excellent display with David Perrin flying all the solo work. The team at that time had the Pitts S2A's. Leader was Bob Thompson (RAF) and the other two were Mike Cairns, Marcus Edwards (Navy Sea Vixens).

[hotstart54]

Request

Please could all former RAT members, pilots, engineers and admin people mail me their contact details for a database. I will not circulate these details without your authorization but obviously need the info to get something up and running.

Thanks in advance,

Norman (Pink Thing)
RAT/Anvil 1977-80
Truck (Islander) driver/baggage & engineer hauler - 'odd' Pitts person - Tour manager (Team) - transit leader - Mother hen - post transit barbarity salver and arial film unit platform steerer.

[email protected]

PS- This doesn't mean that no-one else is going to be invited, it just means that we have to establish what (RAT) people want to do before we start flinging the doors open.

[Tim Mills]

Iv'e been very slack lately, a fact that Mr Pprune reminds me of each time I switch on, and so haven't thanked On-Mark Bob for the further details of the tragic death of George in BADX. How upsetting it must have been to be the first on the scene.

And secondly to say what a great idea a reunion is, though I might not be there except in spirit, unless it could be held at the Richmond RAAF base, or Bankstown or somewhere, in which case I would no doubt be the only one there! There may be family circumstances that could tie in with a visit to Europe, in which case I would try very hard. Hate to miss it.

[noveliste2000]

Well, I'm every bit as slack as Tim - been meaning to add to OnMark Bob's post of 21 Feb and which month are we in now... ?
Yes, I too remember Martin Wickens being bitterly disappointed at the decision to disband the RATs, as were all the staff in the International Promotions Department. The official inside reason given to us was that a decision "at the top" had been made to go back into Formula 1 racing in a big way which, of course, is what the company did.
I stayed on for nearly a year after the teams were disbanded, to help set up an in-house publishing company, but the magic had gone for me. Like everyone involved, I had a ball and played hard - but then we all worked bloody hard, too.
Tim, I think we might have met once, although we never worked together. Neither Bankstown nor Richmond are so far from Glebe, so if the reunion is in Europe, we might have to have our own antipodean mini-version!
Cheers all,
Sue

[Brian L]

Hi Norman

Lovely to read your voice. Hope all is well with you.

I am semi-retired (which decodes as unemployed) and bored out of my skull. I finally shut down Firebird Aerobatics after 25 years 'cos I ran out of sponsors. Can't complain - t'was a good run in a dangerous business - could have starved to death at any time.

What you doing? Be great to see you!

We've recently moved. Herewith:

2 Wychwood Rise
Great missenden
HP16 0HB

01494 868788

Bestest

Brian L

[Big Jugs!]

Had some interesting phone calls out of the blue. It does seem that the interest in the team is far and wide. I was asked recently why the post RATs team was called the Vixen Two (from Dad's Navy days). They got a surpisingly high number of display bookings from German. I went on a weeks "tour" of Northern German with displays in Auf Dem Dumple and Munster. The Munster display sticks in my memory because the 3 para dropping aircraft took off, climbed for height, then dropped 20 odd jumpers at the wrong airfield, about 5 miles away. Must have been exciting for all concerned. Years later,I lived in Germany for 3 years and got a grip of the language. It is not spelt the same but the German word for w*nker sounds like Vixen. You can see why they were so sort after. The commentary must have been fantastic. "Here come the two w*nkers........"

[Forum7]

Bonjour, vraiment par hazard je suis tombé sur cet Email parlant de mon ex Pitt's F-BYAJ. Je l'ai acheté en 1981 en Angleterre alors qu'il était à vendre par une sociéte qui avait racheté beaucoup des Pitt's de Rothman lors de la dissolution de la patrouille.

Aprés etre allé le chercher en Angleterre, je l'ai ramené à la Ferté Alais ou il est resté jusqu'en 1988 jusqu'a que je le revende pour acheter un S2b.
Il me semble me souvenir que la personne venu le chercher a fait un cheval de bois en se posant chez lui...

J'avais dabord volé avec pendant quelques mois et était même allé en Afrique avec à Tanger...et une autre fois de la Ferté au Sud de Londres. Bref je me suis bien amusé, puis je l'ai refait neuf avec l'aide de Marcel et de Catherine chez Salis...réentoilage du fuselage, renforcement fixation roulette de queue, reparation entoilage partiel des ailes, pneux neufs, tableau de bord repeint, tous les intrument remis à neuf avec même changement de verre pour certains....et repeinture totale de l'avion en gardant le type de déco mais en utilisant une peinture beaucoup plus foncée pour le dessous des ailes, ce que je trouvais beaucoup plus beau.

Tout ce travail m'a valu d'etre agréée par Veritas pour avoir l'autorisation d'assurer moi même l'entretien. J'ai gardé la toile avec l'immatriculation originale et les bouquins d'origines...c'est dans cet appareil qu'un des deux pilotes Rothman qui avait créé les "Vixens Two", Marcus et john m'avait fait faire mon premier declenché, (merci Marcus !) pendant qu'ils étaient au meeting de La ferté Alais et que je leur servais d'interprete et faisait mes premiers ronds en l'air... Hélas l'année suivante on m'a telephoné pour me demander de les remplacer à un meeting car ils avaient eu un accrochage lors d'une démo en face de leur nouveau sponsor ainsi que de de leur femme et l'un des deux était mort...je ne pense pas que c'était Marcus, il me semble que c'était John qui s'était accroché avec un troisiéme qui ne pratiquait pas souvent avec eux.
J'aimerais bien savoir ce que devient Marcus.
Amicalement
Francois
P.S. J'ai transformé mon Pitt's S2B F-GJTC rouge et blanc en monoplace comme mon EX F-BYAJ, le S2A....le temps passe....
Pour voir des photo tapez F-GJTC sur google.


Roughly translated:

Hello, really by hazard I fell on this Email speaking about my ex Pitt' S F-BYAJ. I bought it in 1981 in England whereas it was to be sold by a company which had repurchased much Pitt' S of Rothman during dissolution of the patrol. Aprés being gone to seek it in England, I brought back it to Ferté Alais or it remained until 1988 until I resell it to buy S2b. It seems to to me to remember that the person come to seek it made a wooden horse while being posed at his place… I had dabord stolen with during a few months and had even gone to Africa with to Tangier… and another time of Ferté to the South of London. In short I had fun, then I have it remakes nine with the assistance of Marcel and of Catherine at Dirtied… réentoilage of the fuselage, reinforcement fixing caster of tail, entoilage repair partial of the wings, pneux new, dashboard repaint, all intrument given to nine with same change of glass for some….and total repeinture of the plane by keeping the type of déco but by using a painting more sunk much for the lower part of the wings, which I found much more beautiful. All this work was worth me to be approved by Veritas to have the authorization to ensure to me even maintenance. I kept the fabric with the original registration and the books of origins… it is in this apparatus that one of the two pilots Rothman who had created “Vixens Two”, Marcus and John had made me make my started first, (thank you Marcus!) while they were with the meeting of ferté Alais and that I was used to them as interpreter and made my first rounds in the air… Alas the following year one telephoned to me to wonder to replace them with a meeting because they had had a fixing at the time of a demonstration opposite their new sponsor as well as their wife and one of both had died… I do not think that it was Marcus, it seems to me that it was John who had clung with a troisiéme which often did not practise with them. I would like to know what becomes Marcus. In a friendly way François P.S.I transformed my Pitt' S S2B F-GJTC red and white into single-seater like my EX F-BYAJ, the S2A….time passes…. To see photograph type F-GJTC on google.

PPP

[maxchord]

....which I just ran across today, amazing it'd been going on so long.

Several contributors paths have crossed with mine over the years, I was Colin Woods' co-pilot for a few years on 9 Squadron at Cottesmore and Akrotiri, I'm sad to hear of his demise. We were out in Nairobi for a week when he met his first wife. He was busy with the local social activities while Tony Nichols (the AEO) and I were tearing the intake make-up pieces out of the #3 engine to replace the ignitor boxes... We ran into Neill Williams in a bar who was out there doing the hot and high ODM calibration on the Jetstream, he suggested the VC10 boxes over at the SAA maintenance shed would probably fit - he was right... Another great man, sadly lost.

I interviewed in 1975 for the spare pilot/commentator position when Colin was with the team at Booker. Obviously I didn't make it...

Our NavRadar at Cottesmore was Pete Severn who knew Manx Kelly on Canberras in Germany.

I spent an interesting few weeks as Rod Rea's room-mate at RAF South Cerney during basic training, it must have been notable as that period seems burned in my memory, not the least because Rod had a habit of setting fire to his pillow... beware those who awake the slumbering Rod...

I may be a bit hazy here, but I seem to recall Bob Thompson and I shared an instructor at RAF Valley for Gnat advanced training. This poor soul had to send one of us to Canberras, and the other to Vulcans (Bomber Command had decided they wanted advanced jet trained pilots for the Vulcan as the Flying Pig wasn't giving pilots the high altitude experience - go figure...). Bob got the Canberra slot, and I got Vulcans... When he got to Canberras they measured his upper leg and decided it was too long and he'd lose his knee-caps in an ejection - so he went to Hunters. Now of course, I may have become confused in my old age, but I think I've got the right Bob here... I finally got my Canberra slot after four years on Bloodhound Missiles...

I'm headed for the attic to find those old RAT publicity flyers from their display at Great yarmouth in (I think) 1976...

[Fly380]

Ooooh South Cerney. Mixed memories. 204 or 205 course? Bob Thompson was on my JP course at Church Fenton. 13 course. Lucky for some.:}

[maxchord]

Don't remember which, but the numbers are familiar - it started in November 64. My memories (other than finding a broom handle with which to wake Rod in the morning) are mostly that blasted quarry pit which was freezing in winter, and a miserable weekend in the Brecon Beacons in January...

I went to Syerston and 168 Course, then on to Valley, a great place to spend the summer.

[rodthesod]

Maxchord

That would be 205 Course then - I started on 203, was medically recoursed to 205 after a rugger injury, then disciplinary recoursed to 207 after a drinking self-inflicted 'injury'. I don't remember being poked with a stick in the mornings, but then I don't remember much of those days - mostly an alcoholic blur. I continued to set fire to things, including my room in the mess at St Mawgan during an 85 Sqn detachment - much to the amusement of the Lightning jocks I'd been drinking with (and who'd filled every cc of my room with fluffed up RAF crinkly toilet rolls). On reflection, setting light to it wasn't the best way of getting rid of it!

I was similarly 'creamed off' to Vulcans, then 'punished' with a ground tour for not wanting to stay, and again with a posting to the acknowledged 'bad boys' squadron - 85. Some of the happiest flying days of my career, but 'semper in excreta' as usual.

Rothman's came after 2 years with Dan Air when I got the call from Bob T - 'Would I like to come to Teeside for an interview?' - I think I got from Gatwick to RAT HQ before he put the phone down. The interview was an hour in the Pitts doing formation and aeros, and about 6 hours in the Flying Club bar keeping up with Marcus Edwards, Norman Rhodes and Mike Cairns - I passed with flying colours.

My time with Rothman's was amazing. Fantastic flying, camaraderie and they even paid us good money! Booze was becoming more of a problem for me though: I did and said many things I very much regret. I finally quit drinking in 1992. I no longer needed poking with a broom handle to wake up - just wish I'd done it back at South Cerney 28 years earlier (could have saved myself 3 marriages, a couple of houses and an awful lot of embarrassment).

Best regards,
Rod

[maxchord]

Well, you never did anything to upset or embarrass me, I'm just glad I was around to put the fire out when I did - else who knows what might have happened.... those three months at South Cerney had me running at full speed just to stand still, but perhaps that was the idea. It was actually you who led me to this amazing thread, I Googled your name for reasons I cannot remember, and here we are... and a lot of old names from the past as well, but Colin was a part of my life for four years. Strewth, deja vue all over again.

I was on 100 Sqn at West Raynham after four years across the field at the Bloodhound Missile Training School - that really was a punishment battalion, some of my fellow inmates were there for reasons that far exceeded my sentence for "social misconduct..." The job was uninspiring, but as you say the camaraderie was great, and I had a boss that was head and shoulders above any other I served under..

Well, SWMBO has just served up dinner (wife number 3, a SouthWest Airlines captain - and my retirement programme...)

"Be right there dear..."

All the best,

Al Corden

[jindabyne]

max

Was that a boss by the name of Des M?

[maxchord]

No, that would be Wally Herbert, a truly great boss unlike the political weasels that seemed to pervade the upper ranks. I guess I must have read too many Biggles books in school....

[GHNRY]

What a thread - only found it yesterday - up until way past bedtime reading it all.

DRP and I were at Sportair together. We used to take a pair of RF4s off for an aero/dog-fight workout before instructing for the day.

David's first aero competition (and mine) was the McAully at Little Snoring in the RF4. We came last on that occasion! (I took my revenge 5 years later, though, when G-KEST and his team of judges made kind remarks about my flying of the Stampe)

Following on from an RF5/RF4 display routine flown by Brian Stevens and Neil Jensen, David and I worked up a 2 x RF4 sequence. Nowhere near as classy as the Skyhawks/Unipart offering later - but maybe the seeds were sown.

At the Biggin Hill Battle of Britain display 1972 (?) we added one item which I never saw done by others - opposition landing! It took John Blake by surprise, too, because we had "forgotten" to mention it.

I think it was the BH Air Fair of 1974; Jock Maitland put on an aeros comp. as part of the show. DP won the Pooleys Sword for this, and was invited to the RAT soon after.

He was a great mate.

If anyone wants to make contact, try [email protected]

[ABUKABOY]

Been tooling around PPRuNe for ages, and only came across this thread today. Was in at the VERY beginning. 'Twas a cold, dark and misty night, and a record midweek number (3) of local waifs and strays had turned up at the old wooden clubhouse at Booker to keep Terry Wedlake, the barman, company. The night wore on and the ideas came thick and fast, (then thick and much slower as the pints flowed), and it was resolved that Manx would get some mates of his and form an aerobatic team, Nick Daniel would do the commentary, and as I was just old enough, I would drive the van. We were all well-pleased that all that had been sorted, and a show (or rather a flop) of hands seemed to endorse it as a good idea, and so we all stumbled out into the night, (it was always a stumble in those days), and the rest is history.
I will always be grateful to Iain Weston for proposing me a few hours in the Stampes every month to stay current, so that when they were away from Booker displaying and one went U/S, Grahame in the tower always knew where I was on the airfield, and I would drop everything and ferry them the spare aircraft. It wasn't long before the spare used to go with them, as Nick got his flying licence, but it gave me a good "in" to the Barnstormers, where I spent two happy and "event-free" years.
Your magnaminous gesture, G-KEST, of rescuing me by lending me the money to finish my I/R at CSE, a result of a post-display chat while wandering along the seafront at Weston-super-Mare, will always be remembered as probably the most significant and considerate leg-up I ever received on my rocky route to a professional licence. Never forgotten.
I was lucky enough to re-meet and work with Rod in TNT in later years and for many years, and its really great to see him active and thriving, as evinced by his posts on here.
I spent a great deal of time with Manx and his family by reason of a dalliance at the time with his god-daughter, and have very happy memories.
What an amazing bunch of characters, one and all, and ALL fondly remembered.

[seafuryfan]

On a blue sky day in the summer of, oh, I think it was 77-78?, the RAT took off on an easterly heading over my home town of Shoreham, with each ac offering puffs of smoke on a seemingly random basis.

As a 14 year old enthusiast, I waved like mad from the garden, not appreciating that the chances of any of the pilots spotting me in his mid-range 9 o'clock, let alone see me jumping up and down like a madman, were negligible.

However, the instant after I waved the nearest Pitts executed a 360 snap roll. Although I'll never know if I was seen, the spontaneity was terrific. In my mind, we'd made a connection, and I've carried that memory with me ever since.

Great thread, with so many of my chilhood heroes featuring.

[Panfa1]

I was a student pilot in the early 80s and flew in the front seat of G-BECM out of Eastleigh Airport one Saturday - my first aerobatics lesson. It was then part of the Rothmans Aerobatics Team and spent a couple of days in Southampton on the way back to base in Wales (I think).

I'll never forget the experience.

Only yesterday I was looking at some old photos taken before and after the flight. Sadly, the transparency film has deteriorated badly over the years.

[LOONRAT]

Thought you might like to see this video made in Madrid over Quatro Vientos airfield mid way through the spanish tour with Myself leading, Marcus Edward, David Perrin and Mike Findlay. Happy Days




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mssOmzGuV1o

[hotstart54]

Oh Happy Days - well done Bob!

[Flap40]

Good job that bird was missed! (at 1:15 during the inverted portion)

[rodthesod]

Flap 40

Good job that bird was missed! (at 1:15 during the inverted portion)


'That bird' was, I believe, No 4 crossing at the bottom of the 'Hairyside' - he would certainly make a good job of missing the inverted vic.

Thanks for that Bob, I hope all's well with you - I'm hoping Pink Thing's going to organise that reunion sometime.

All the best,

Rod

[LOONRAT]

You are right - it was David Perrin in opposition when we were on the inverted push out during the opening sequence.

In '76 at my debut Farnborough appearance as a wingman I hit his turbulence and flick rolled towards the leader (Colin Woods) I moved the controls in a blur and missed him !!!! :sad: I recovered to see the other two carrying on - I joined as soon as possible and after landing was mortified I had messed up our first display there. This was short lived when Exagerat ( Richard Butler - Team Commentator) came up and remarked 'Fantatstic display - why did you not brief me on the new manouvre ?' I did not have the heart to tell him the truth'. We never had the problem again after we debriefed and working out a fix for the problem.


Still breathing, drinking, wenching and flying !!

LOONRAT

[NiteShift]

I remember Dave P's old jet at Shoreham in '93 where it was undergoing some work with Mike Fenton (I have pics but don't know how to post..). In July '93 I believe it was, John Harper came to collect it and took it to new owner in Germany, I guess this was when the aeroplane was last in the UK.

[hotstart54]

Whato' Rod, I am up to my eyeballs at the moment planning something called the 'Tip to Tip 2008' (http://www.tiptotip.co.uk/).

Six paramotors Land's End to John O'Groats in aid of the Forces Children's Trust and The Air Ambulance. Been at it for a while - you should try it, great view but not a lot of speed. Kick off is on the 29th July so busy, very busy.

Bob may be in the process, I have not been informed (party).

http://www.paramotorclub.org/tiptotip/images/map.jpg

http://www.paramotorclub.org/tiptotip/the-route_clip_image001.jpg

[kluge]

When did the Marlboro sponsorship take over ?
Was it the same team ?

I have a picture on me in front of a Marlboro Pitts S1(T?) at Booker in 1984.
I went gliding with a mate from University and saw the teams' a/c there.
Reason I ask is that the Rothmans seem to have used Pitts S2's and wondered if there was a connection.

[hotstart54]

No connection between Marlboro and Rothmans teams that I am aware of Kluge. We knew each other but that was as far as it went, when Rothmans withdrew, Marlboro just became that little bit more prominent that's all.

[kluge]

Thx for clearing that up. Appreciated.

[Africrash]

G-SOLO at shoreham in '93........That would have been when Mike was working in the Chelsea college hangar I think?

IIRC the Pitts had arrived dismantled, and was then reassembled there, took forever to get the rigging sorted out, and then headed out to Germany. I also have a suspicion it had been in Switzerland at some stage and fallen foul of the noise regulations there, but it is a long time ago and my memory is not reliable!

Crash