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Chickfeed
6th Dec 2003, 21:07
I have just read the thread about Ryanair being sued by a female pilot for amongst other things harrassment and I felt that the topic deserved a thread of it's own. In the company I now fly for the practice of harrassment and discrimination was widespread within one of our fleets. The practices were so blatently obvious but noone had the guts to take the management on, myself included to my eternal shame, except one First Officer. He has followed his grievance for bullying, descrimination and harrassment, and won. I take my hat off to him and he will know who he is. I only hope that his victory over the Air Force Mafia, in an attempt to produce openness and fairness isn't piric. This isn't just another AirForce bashing thread but in this instance the group of individuals who set about systematically promoting their own intersts at the expense of their civillian colleagues were all from the AirForce Transport Command. Fortunately the fleet has all but dispanded now and I look forward to seeing transparancy and fairness amongst my new flying bretheren.

RDi
7th Dec 2003, 00:28
Its a good point you make, that sometimes pilots get the managements they deserve, unless they are prepared to face up to them and, if necessary, to walk.

However, my experience of airlines is that the ex-military managements had at least some background in organisation and basic people skills, and tried to be good employers within their understanding of the concept. They generally seemed far fairer and less discriminatory than simple "civilian" pilots who had no such background and who were promoted to be the willing tools of finance-oriented directors.

Of course, "discrimination" is a subjective term: the six-monthly sim check and the annual medical discriminate ruthlessly in our industry. Those of us who can't do crosswords should not complain of discrimination when we never win the weekend newspaper prizes.

But I'm intrigued - perhaps you would share with us:

Which Company ?

Which Fleet ?

Which AirForce ? (Long time since the one I know about had a transport command).

er - Pyrrhic ?

Captain Kaboom
7th Dec 2003, 02:29
On the same topic (roughly), I was approached a couple of months ago by one of the largest companies in the world to come join their flight department.
The impression of the company was great, good benefits, professionalism, days off, you name it.
I gave up a good job with a commercial company in order to do so.
We are half a year down the road now, biggest mistake in my life.
Airplanes are dispatched without standby instruments or working fire warning!, happened, not under my command tough.
Furthermore I was promised a thirteenth month, and a pretty good retirementplan.
Now they tell me that the thirteenth month is not applicable during the first year and I totally misunderstood the retirementplan, alltogether a difference of E 38.000 Gross this year.
Funny tough that both of the other two collegues that were hired at the same time understood the conditions excactly as I did, furthermore, it is written black and white in the contract.
I have 3 days off a month and SOP's are not used.
When I confronted the CP about the hobbyclub level, he told me that they only had been operating for a year and such bull**** things like SOP's are not on the agenda.
This is the same guy that calls you Sunday night at 2200 to ask what I paid for my last medical or complains that my socks are darkblue instead of black, I guess my priorities are wrong!
I approached the management of my company and I was told that the businessplan is more important than operating a airplane legally (a lot more is happening) the company can afford fines and I was `warned that I need to drop my negative attitude.
Do I miss my old company, however I lost my seniority when I left (fair)
Talking about management, you are just the driver with a big mouth!

CK

Caractacus
7th Dec 2003, 03:54
Hmmm. I think it is seldom acknowledged that political skills can be as essential to career survival as flying and CRM skills.

The two popular issues with management are pressure on FTL's (i.e. use of discretion) and pressure for operational performance from the commercial department.

If your airline is using techniques of coercion or bullying on any issues then it can be very difficult to deal with. The problem with tackling management over, say, the pressure not to call in fatigued is that they have various techniques at their disposal to bring you to heel. Some airlines might just give you a hard roster to make the point. A 'tough' simulator session might be another option. If you are thinking of getting another job then your DFO can always make a few telephone calls round the 'Old Boy Network' and queer your pitch for your next application.

Sticking your 'head above the parapet' might just not be worth it. The trouble is, it is a safety critical business. Sometimes there are issues which simply do need addressing for the good of the travelling public. If management are petulant or vindictive then that can be very, very difficult for the individual.

The time honoured solutiion is to vote with your feet. Equally, of course, the airline can get a bad name and suffer in its recruitment.

A strong BALPA c.c. can make a difference. The real solution is an intelligent management team which avoids these difficult issues in the first place.

B737NG
7th Dec 2003, 08:25
What a pitty.... how can "one of the biggest companpy`s in the
world" work without SOP? or is it a coorporate flying? then you
should know better!!! The flight departments are used as tax-
reducting-sections. So they produce costs and have to get
financial support from other fields in such so called "companies".
I have my fifth uniform and, surprise surprise, SOP`s what is
that? written somewhere and among 300 pilots the level of
standardisation is widely spreaded!. Just to give you a small
impression. So reading a contract is one thing and believe in it
is another. When a expensive toy (AC) is on the ground and the
owner cannot use it for his games then he promises the blue
out of the sky to get a joker who fills his seat. As soon as the
muppet is in the chair he pulls the strings and then is sunset!.
No glamorous and shiny coins anymore, now the dark side turns
up, a modern slave with a Boss-suit behind the controlls for the
outsider, inside? second hand-feelings. Well I hope You can
resolve the problems together with your colluages to change the
bad attitude from those who wrote this missunderstanding in the
contract about the 13th month salary. Have the strengh and see
a lawyer together and consult him. To have it right means not to
got it right!. Good luck!!! NG

Caractacus
8th Dec 2003, 02:55
Whilst we are on the subject the report on the Crossair Saab 340 LX 498 http://www.bfu.admin.ch/common/pdf/u1781_e has a nice piece on the companies management:

>>The statements of the witness questioned about the working climate differed greatly.

The management described the firm as a big family in which each member could turn to his or her superior in the event of a problem, at any time and in full confidentiality. This presumed great loyalty by employees with regard to the management, and disloyal behaviour was seen as the major threat.

According to information from some of the employees questioned, the company management's way of dealing with criticism, was such that many found it ill-advised to express criticism openly. This also applied to opinions which concerned Flight Operations.<<


How often do we, as pilots, have to deal with this type of culture?

Why?

fireflybob
8th Dec 2003, 08:10
How much training (if any) have those in the management had to become managers?

I saw a statistic a couple of years ago which said that over three quarters of managers in the USA had had some form of management training. In the UK only ONE quarter of managers had been given any management training. QED

The corporate culture comes from the top downwards and companies which resort to bullying tactics will often, in my opinion, find themselves out of business or taken over in the long term.

PAXboy
8th Dec 2003, 21:05
The management described the firm as a big family in which each member could turn to his or her superior in the event of a problem, at any time and in full confidentiality. Ah yes, I know that kind of open door policy. In a pharmaceutical company, I accepted a Director's statement that his 'door was always open' at face value. Silly me - once inside his office, the only other door was the emergency exit. I have not made that mistake again.

Fireflybob - I often think that it's the training to be a 'manager' that makes them worse. :*