Multi-Engine Hour Requirements - Charter

[Transition Layer]

G'day all,

Just after a bit of clarification of the regs relating to minimum hour requirements for multi-engine charter operations.

CAO 82.1 para 4 states
4 OBLIGATIONS IN RELATION TO FLIGHT CREW REQUIREMENTS
4.1 Each operator who holds a certificate authorising charter operations must
ensure that a person does not act as pilot in command of multi-engined
aeroplanes not exceeding 5700 kg MTOW that are engaged in charter
operations unless the pilot satisfies the following requirements:
(a) in the case of VFR operations, the pilot must, unless he or she has at least
100 hours experience as pilot in command of multi-engined aeroplanes,
have, in addition to endorsement time, at least 5 hours experience as pilot
in command of the aircraft type; and
(b) in the case of IFR operations, the pilot must have at least 10 hours
experience as pilot in command of the aircraft type which may include
flight time accrued as pilot acting in command under supervision.

To me this seems a little strange. On the surface the hour requirements for VFR operations seem to be higher than that for IFR operations, but it goes without saying that IFR operations require a higher degree of skill and competency.

To take it to the extreme, consider this example -

I have 99.9hrs M/E PIC, with 10hrs ICUS on say Chieftains for example. According to the regs, I can happily blast off on an IFR charter in a Chieftain, but cannot operate that same aircraft as a VFR charter.

I satisfy the 10hrs ICUS on type, but I don't have 100 M/E PIC nor do I have 5hrs in command on type. (Note that para (a) doesn't mention ICUS at all). Therefore I am OK for IFR but not VFR.

Does this make sense to anyone else, or am I completely missing the point?

OR, is it simply ambigious wording on behalf of CASA? i.e. the "and" between paragraphs (a) and (b) is all encompassing meaning the IFR requirements is in addition to the VFR requirements. The fact that each paragraph starts with "in the case of..." seems to dispute that.

Another one of many regs that in the end comes down to the way in which it is interpreted. Clearly I have no life to be pondering this on a Friday evening :sad:

Cheers,
TL

[Dale Harris]

Nope, the 100 hrs exempts you from the 5 hrs required for vfr. Nothing exempts you from the 10 hrs for ifr. read the "unless" bit carefully

[yowie]

DaleAlso read "the in command of aircraft type"bit.Thats where the 5/10 requirements come in!;)

[Capt Fathom]

Yep! Dale has got it in one.

VFR, > 100 hrs PIC multi, only endorsement required;
VFR, < 100 hrs PIC multi, endorsement, plus additional 5 hrs PIC on type;
IFR, 10 hrs In Command or ICUS on type, regardless of previous PIC multi.

Clearly, I am in the same boat as TL this Friday evening!:ugh:

[Dale Harris]

Yowie, not sure what you are getting at. You don't have to have the 5 hrs in command on type, other than your endorsement, to fly VFR as long as you have 100 hrs prior multi. IFR requires the 10 hrs regardless. If you don't have the 100 hrs, then you must have an additional 5 hrs command on type before you can do the VFR thing. Are you talking about the ICUS thing or what? If so, then i guess that will depend upon your personal views of the ICUS phenomena. Is it really command or not? I have my own views on that, not necessarily shared by either CASA or those who do lots of ICUS. Guess you would need to consult with your friendly CASA representative.

[Ozgrade3]

I read it this way.

If you have 80 ME command in a Duchess and do an endorsement on a chieftain, to then do a VFR Charter in the Chieftain you need the 5 hrs PIC on the Chieftain.

If you have 105 hrs Duchess time, you dont need the 5 hrs command on the Chieftain to do a VFR Charter in the Chieftain, but the 10 hrs still applies for IFR

[Dale Harris]

I agree oz, but I suspect he is really asking about the ICUS thing. Any other takers?

[Transition Layer]

Thanks to everyone for their input so far, although things aren't necessarily getting all that clearer!

Just doesn't seem to make sense that I could have 0 M/E CMD hrs, but 10hrs ICUS on type, and do an IFR charter in that particular aircraft, but not complete a VFR charter in that type.

From a commericial perspective, 10hrs ICUS on type is a hell of a lot easier to come by than 5hrs CMD don't you think?

TL

[404 Titan]

Transition Layer

Try and look at it this way. Lets look at it as total hours on type instead of breaking it down into PIC, ICUS, dual etc.

If you have 100 hrs multi PIC, to fly VFR charter you will have a minimum of endorsement time = Approx 2 hrs total.

If you have 0 hrs multi PIC, to fly VFR charter you will have a minimum of endorsement time + 5 hours PIC = Aprox 7 hrs total.

If you have 100 hrs multi PIC or not, to fly IFR charter you will have a minimum of endorsement time + 10 ICUS or PIC = Approx 12 hours.

It can be clearly seen from these numbers that the emphasis on experience on type is being place on the IFR operation. Unfortunately the regulations don’t try and differentiate between PIC and ICUS on the grounds of which is easier to get. If you were paying for it yourself I would suggest the ICUS would be harder to get because you need 10 hrs at a dual rate instead of 5 hours at private hire. Hope this clears it up for you.
:ok:

[Transition Layer]

Thanks 404 and others for your words of wisdom...

Seems my interpretation of the regs was correct but was just having a bit of trouble putting it in a practical application.

Cheers,
TL