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radiohead
26th Aug 2001, 12:07
Now this may have been discussed before, but a recent complaint - nay, observation - from a young student led me to thinking of my own earlier experiences of cantankerous instructors. My UAS mentor became so frustrated at my attempts at landing that he demonstrated his prowess by holding the stick between his knees on finals, and simultaneously smacking me on the back of my (fortunately) helmeted head. Needless to say, my efforts didn't really improve until I was blessed with a new, and more tolerant instructor.

Other stories and observations on the art of instructional techniques welcomed!

pedalezy
26th Aug 2001, 16:23
Generally, I find the majority of flying instructors sadly lacking. Most are only there to get the hours to move onto airline work and see the instructional role as a viable way to get those precious hours, sadly at the expense of their students. In my time with instuctors however, I have been lucky enough to have flown with a few professional instructors who had the EXPERIENCE and technique to be able to pass onto me some of the depth of their experience, and this ability is endeed an artform.(so I do know the difference) Regulators should in fact make it harder for pilots to get instructor ratings..I for one disagee that a junior instructor with a couple of hundred hours and a fresh instructor rating can teach you anything, I would go so far that before an instructor rating be obtained, a couple of thousand hours be logged as well as acquiring a formal teaching degree. ( :eek: :eek:

TheSilverFox
26th Aug 2001, 16:35
Pedalezy

A couple of thousand hours.

A teaching degree.

And then and only then will you be able to earn your 10.00 per hour flight pay!!!

Hmmmm.

dingducky
27th Aug 2001, 06:51
i had an instructor that one time when i said something i think he must have disagreed with :p
grabbed the control column and turned it trying to hit me on the knee with it!
and this was when we were on base about to turn finals! :eek:
oh and this wasn't even the insructor that i truely despised
for info on him read the changing instructor thread in wannabees :(

You want it when?
28th Aug 2001, 12:27
Surely the fact that Mil instructors are normally 1000+ hours and a couple of tours before they get to instruct should be a hint?

I've got two instructors - one several (lots) thousand hours ex glider, twin trubo prop cargo etc.. done it all etc.. and one recently "fresh caught". Both are very good, and teach in different ways, and I have total faith in their ability to get me out of my frequent screw ups - the best comment made by one of them was "I don't care if you come in inverted :eek:, but you will descend at 65knots and at the right height"

Neither have taken to hitting me (yet) but my one wheeled flares from 10 feet up are starting to stress them - and the airframe!

Regarding their pay - its a big set of qualifications for 10 - 12 an hour - but that is no more than a doctor might earn in their first couple of years - after seven years of study. AND they do get to fly for free. :)

Token Bird
28th Aug 2001, 13:14
pedalezy,

If we need a couple of thousand hours to become an instructor, and a couple of thousand to get an airline job, just how are we supposed to build these hours?

I for one have never had any problem with hour-building instructors. Obviously you have had a bad experience but don't assume it's universal,

TB

pedalezy
28th Aug 2001, 13:46
I have never had a bad experience with any hour building wannabee.I just think that if you pay good money to learn to fly..then you should get the best instruction for your money, without subsidising someone elses career choice. I've certainly seen the difference in the quality of product delivered between a career instructor and the other kind. AS for rates of pay, if the industry wasn't full of airline wannebees working for peanuts, instructors could get better paid and the customer would get better quality in their instruction, could even work out cheaper in the long run..

sprocket
28th Aug 2001, 15:04
This is going back in time a bit, back when they used Tiger Moths for regular training. A certain instructor had an unusual technique of letting his students know when he thought they were ready to do their first landing. He would detach his joystick from it’s control stub, and being in the front cockpit, would hold it up to get the students attention and then throw it over the side. :eek: The student by now would have realised that it would be a do or die effort to get back on the ground safely.
Obviously (as the story goes) word got around about this instructors’ startling teaching practice and inevitably, a wag student formulated a plan …
….. as the wag student’s lessons progressed he would carry a spare joystick with him hidden under his jacket. Soon enough while flying in the circuit, the instructor removed his stick and threw it out. The student grinned back at the instructor, lifted up his spare stick and also threw it away. :eek: :eek: A tormented scene with the instructor trying to control the Moth by sticking his finger into the now empty joystick stub, comes to mind. :D :D

Onan the Clumsy
28th Aug 2001, 17:52
Wouldn't this get a little expensive? :)

TheSilverFox
29th Aug 2001, 01:03
You want it when?

"And they do get to fly for free"

Thats like saying dustbin men do get to empty bins for free!!!

By the way, based on your logic, don't Airline pilots also get to fly for free???

Perhaps they should be paid 9000 pa too!

You want it when?
29th Aug 2001, 02:57
SilverFox

Empty dustbins
Run an IT dept.
Fly

Good grief, hard choice. I'd rather fly - if I can find a job that allows me to fly and gives me the lifestyle my liver (and Mrs YWIW likes) then I would do it.

Flying is expensive - group flying is cheap at 35 or so an hour, regular club flying at 80 or so. If I pay you a wage (OK - only 15 to 25k per annum but all your flying is free what would you say?

Nuff said.

RVR800
29th Aug 2001, 14:33
Poor quality instructing arises to some extent because of the fact that most instructors only get paid when the aircraft is on the move or when the sim is live.

They are being paid a pittance and have no choice in some cases - they have to eat.
Briefings are short/absent.

Quality suffers as a result...

It a question of money (to some extent)?

At OATS, UAS, JEFTS the instructors are salaried and have the time and experience to
be of greater help to students ?