Hour Building in Florida

[petrolheadtony]

I am flying to Florida(Orlando) in 2 weeks to do some Hour Building and want to do a Tail Wheel endorsement at the same time. Anyone got any suggestions for a suitable school that can handle both of these?

[Tim_donovan]

Orlando FLight Training at kissimee is ok but watch out for the surcharges. I went there and got some crazy additional charges which I managed to sort out at the end.
The airfield is friendly and the Wing House just down the road is ace.
:O

[captmav]

Check out 'Debenair' at Titusville, their hour building deals are incredably cheap...depending on how many hours you need to build of course.

Cessna 152: $50 hr, but the more you buy the cheaper it gets, down to $43hr if you want 100hrs.

Definately worth a look, it's also run by a lovely English lady called Annette.

Good luck,
Captmav

[Greystoke999]

Try Wings and Wheels at Winter Haven
Run by a great English couple and only US$37-20 dry and US$57-50 wet for a PA28 or C172. This is based on tacho hours too so you get a bit more than an hour.
The airfild at Winter Haven is superb also.
http://www.wingsandwheelsfl.com/
By the way I have no involvement in the company I just learnt to fly at Winter Haven

[petrolheadtony]

Thanks guys, I will look into all your suggestions.

Much appreciated.

Petrolheadtony.

[zickler]

Florida should be a good option, especially this time of year, since you dont get all the scorching heat & thunderstorms you usually get in summer, but beware of OFT. I was there not long ago and can say that not many people leave there happy. You pay a lot of additional charges when you get there, and everytime you fly you pay additional insurance costs etc. Besides, I found the management to be totally unconcerned about an individuals progress, and the only time you see any of them is to hassle you for more cash. From what I have heard lately, most of the good instructors that were there have left, and also I would be concerned with their less than brilliant safety record. On the other hand, kissimmee is a brilliant place to fly out of, with very friendly controllers, and loads beautiful places to fly to.

[Sungod Ra]

Flying in Florida is excellent fun! However, I would never go back to OFT!! I was there at the same time as Zickler with quite a number of Brits at various stages of training. The airport facilities are good, but OFT manage to shaft their students quite admirably. Surcharges added willy nilly, if you don't check the balance of your account regularly they add fictitious flights, instructor charges, accommodation charges etc. Now I'm not saying they do this maliciously, but what's the alternative? That's right! Absolute F***ing incompetence on their part. None of the instructors liked their employers and were essentially trapped. The biggest worry was the lies they told. JAA this and JAA that. Wrong. They trained a few guys for alleged JAA ratings, come skills test time.....Oh I'm terribly sorry but we haven't got a JAA examiner!!!! I must stress that they do do PPL and IMC but nothing else. The owner is a British skinny weed with Rottweiler on arm. Spends all day burning around in his 911 Carrere and being rude to the students. Why the Rottwelier Giles? Because you've probably been thumped before. Enough ranting, can't stand the school!! Take your money elsewhere, schools are ten a penny in Florida and it doesn't matter that you have a JAA licence if you can get a Temporary Airman's Certificate. The JAA examiner (top bloke! Ray Williams) examines at other Florida schools, so don't believe the hype and don't feel as though oFT are the best bet, they're not, they are the best waste of money.

[Arrowhead]

I am writing from OFT right now. We all just read your post. I will post a full report when I have finished here, but I will say that the above post is almost total crap. OFT is certainly no worse than anywhere else I have been in Florida.

And BTW you have to check for inaccurate billing at every school you go to - it happens. And if you did not check all the charges before you came out, more the fool you... now back to the swimming pool, tennis courts, gym etc...

[jamespollard]

Good old OFT eh? I was there for 9 weeks in 2003 and agree that the examiner (Ray Williams) is a good bloke.
Watch out for the Cessna 152s falling out the sky (literally) - when i was there a chap had an engine failure at 200feet and stacked it into the trees. The FAA had a chat with the maintenance department and slapped their wrist. There was also a 250 gallon fuel leak because some donkey left the fuel bowser running...all very professional.
The MDs Porsche is dear to run so there are alot of hidden surcharges - also dont pay up front and never have more than $300 dollars on account at any one time. most people return to the uk and are promised the money to be refunded. My mate has been waiting 1 year for his refund.
The accomodation is nice if you live in filth normally, and the morale amongst staff is as high as that of an abbortoire. You are not treated as a customer more of a money making machine. Go to Comair instead to hour build or Phoenix.

[Angels Zero]

Couldn't agree more with James on this one. Have recently returned from OFT having gone out to do JAA PPL or so I thought. Spent 3 weeks there, initially it rained, what can you do? But then for 2 glorious weeks clear skies and nothing but superb weather. Problem was only seemed to get booked for one slot(1 hour) per day due to lack of instructors and/or broken planes or planes due for 100Hrs in tandem. Also spent a whole day sitting in a classroom when the weather was at its best, I don't think they like working when it's too hot! Did this seem to worry the people who were taking our money? No. One last word of caution, if you think you will be able to ask any questions about European requirements forget it, you may as well ask my little sister for she knows more.

Well I off now to try and get some winter flying done, was hoping to start ATPL's early next year but what should have been easily achievable is now a distant reality thanks OFT.:suspect: :mad: :suspect:

[zickler]

Couldn't agree more with Sungod Ra & Angels Zero. It is very sad indeed that the people running OFT seem to think that they can keep getting away with everything. They dont seem to grasp the fact that word of mouth is indeed the best way of advertising, be it positive or negative. Having all those nice flashy ads in flight magazines with jet planes parked on their apron etc wont fool anyone in their right mind.

Their sales person; unfortunately, the guy has got absolutely no idea about JAA regulations whatsoever, and this is totally unacceptable from someone who students seek advice from. In correspondence you are promised the perfect flight school, boasting FAA & JAA licencing. I, for one, was promised a JAA CPL, but when I got there, they said they were still waiting for approval and they had no JAA instructors either. Mistakes in the accounts; maybe not malicious, but how can you not be suspicious when it happens every 2-3 days? At one point we were promised student meetings to discuss what was annoying everyone there, but as usual, the guys in charge never came out of their office to address these complaints. Just one of the many things we were promised that never materialised.

The accomodation ... describing it as filthy would be an overstatement. Stained carpets, leaking roofs, broken sofas, cleaners that came around once every two weeks (if that). At $30 a night you would expect something slightly better.....

The fleet ... well it speaks for itself really. A decent 172 & a couple of decent warriors. Most of the 152's were in a really bad state to say the least. Leaking fuel tanks, dented wing leading edges, u/s transponders, no night lights for instruments, no working vor's, arejust a few of the things I've seen myself. The crashes they've had recently say it all really.

I really do hope that at last, someone takes matters into hand, and gets OFT going in the right direction; just as it used to be in the good old days. Unfortunately and very sadly indeed, that is hardly imaginable with the attitude of the people running the place at the moment.

[aussie73]

I was at cae aviation intl a few months back and they have
it together they just changed the name to the pilot training academy florida,they have a great fleet of aircraft all of
them are IFR and really a great bunch.I was ther for two months
and flew 250 hours with no problems at all,the school is run
by an australian fellow who runs the school right.

[T1000]

Hello

does anybody know how flyoba compares? Travelling out to Florida (Orlando)in January for hours building, would be grateful for any tips

also how long did it take any of you aviators to get your FAA certificate?

T1000

[Charlie Zulu]

T1000,

It took me around 30 mintues of form filling and a general chat with a very nice man at Orlando FSDO four and a half years ago. Walked out with a temporary FAA PPL for no fees whatsoever.

To have it validated took a two hour flight and around an hour ground school (BFR) which also acted as a checkout on a Warrior at OFT (then Euroflight), but don't get me started about OFT. Okay it took them a few months of constant emails, letters etc to get my $1000 back from my account. Then my bookings on the warrior mysteriously dissapeared overnight... etc etc.

My FAA CPL/IR took four weeks this year but I had to do some training for that! ;)

To get an FAA PPL based on your current ICAO PPL, you will need to go through the verification process. I have posted a detailed process on how to go about this here (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=107385).

Best wishes,

Charlie Zulu.

[gooneydog]

Anyone wanting a safety pilot when hourbuilding in Florida (Jan'04) feel free to contact me FAA ATP (current jet captain) 6000 hours + no charge just willing to help out Brits over here

[Arrowhead]

I promised to give a full review of OFT on my return, so here it is.

Compared to other schools in Florida, the accomodation is execllent (dishwasher, washing machines, TV, swimming pool, tennis courts, gym, individual bedrooms, aircon, 7 min walk to school). Yes, the furniture is grubby, and the state of your "condo" depends on how clean you and your condo-mates are. If you expect more for £18/night you should go somewhere else.

On billing and costs, I found OFT in line with others. Always call before you go to check rates, and confirm fuel rebate rates if you are hour building (currently $2.39/USG?). There were some errors, but you can easily spot them and they are not intentional. The only gripe I had was a $4/hour insurance/fuel surcharge which appeared from nowhere when I arrived. But overall costs were still amongst the cheapest in Florida.

On aircraft, I found nothing wrong with the PA28s, and all in relatively good working order. The large fleet (8-ish) also helped reliability. The Arrow was grubby, but quickly cleaned up for me ahead of my CPL. The 2 basic twins (aka BE76/Duchess) had continual problems, and I would advise anyone going for their multi to make sure BOTH are back on line before going (electrics in one, and engine in the other). And dont just take the marketing man (Dan's) word for it - ask an instructor or someone else in dispatch.

Lastly, make sure you prepare yourself before you go. If doing your PPL, get the Trevor Thom books from Transair and study for a couple of weeks before leaving. If going for your CPL, search the CAA website for the guidance notes which will tell you about form 170A, the £607 test fee, and test tolerances. I would also make sure your instructor gives you a timetable and preflight briefings so you know where you are going and where you are. If you dont ask, you wont get, and you wont know how you are doing. And PPL students should note that you go solo in about 25 hours at OFT, not 8-15 as in the UK... and that there is much less circuit work.

In summary, I would recommend OFT for the accomodation and (excluding multi) quality of aircraft. The costs and instruction are in line with other places. And FYI, I found the previous comments about Giles totally untrue - both he and co-owner Mark bent over backwards to get the multis fixed for me, and made sure I was fairly compensated for my problems.

>>---->

[Red_Z3]

I agree with Aussi73, I was also at CAE aviation and know the place very well, they have a new name as stated and the web site is http://www.ptaflorida.com. I know the place very well and will be more than happy to give you more info. They have good equipment, a nice FBO and the staff is down to earth and friendly, you may find yourself enjoying the flying and time off while in Daytona. I would definitely recommend them and you should be able to negotiate a good deal for yourself.

Regards

P.S. Aussie73 are you back in OZ or still in Florida?

[Sungod Ra]

Returned to thread with interest. If indeed OFT are getting their act together then great, for the wannabees! However, Arrowhead's vehement defence duly noted (you work there don't you?:hmm: ) How can you compare it to other schools? Presumably you've trained at many of them. Great. Best of a bad bunch means **** all when they are as dire as I knew them to be. As for one or two previous derogatory comments.....quite a few that I've found and could name 20 blokes baying for blood and all seem to be saying the same thing.

Sod the accommodation, (sounds like you're enjoying the pool and tennis court too much, aka Path Of Least Resistance), it's the management's antipathic management??!!! OFT management - th original oxymoron.

I don't slate them because I derive pleasure from it. I don't want people shafted as I saw it a year ago. If you must go then perhaps with the NUMEROUS OFT threads on pprune, you might at least be prepared and both Powell and Sun-Tzu will be proud of you.

I've made my case, and do not deny that;

the flying is awesome (go down to Key West)

the instructors are great (cosmopolitan - Norwegian, Swedish, Finnish, Dutch, American, British)

the airframes are flyable (just about airworthy as opposed to in good nick)

the weather is both good (morale, sunglasses etc.) and challenging (convective activity, turbulence, windshear, flight planning etc.)

the airport is very well equiped, and some nice eye-candy too (Mitchell, Mustangs, Spitfire, Harvards etc.)

instrument approaches are free (both remittance and hassle free!)

I would never go back as long as my Biffin's Bridge points downwards, but for those of you who do, I hope you remain focussed and achieve your aim! Despite my crapulent whining (yet tempered with total truth) I achieved everything I wanted and hope you do too!

[Flying surfer]

I visited CAE/pta recently and there operation sucks. They didn't seem interested and everything they told me before I arrived was a load of rubbish. After a few days I left and went and spent my money elsewhere.

PM me if you want the whole story.

Oh and Aussie 73 is probbaly the owner!!:(