The Human AI

[Arm out the window]

Felt I should share this one with the assembled multitude, as it hasn't happened to me in such a pronounced way before...very amusing.
I was doing a scenic flight a yesterday and had a Chinese fella in the other front seat. As soon as a small amount of bank was introduced, he would lean away from it.
During the first reasonable turn towards him, he was leaning so much that he was almost in my lap; so much so that I had to push him away - he didn't want to move either.
This naturally aroused my curiosity, and so I tried a few more turns to see what he'd do; sure enough, any bank would cause him to lean in the opposite direction.
I was thinking that he would be a real attribute in any kind of reduced vis. situation - forget the AI, just roll the aircraft until the roof pointed the same way as his head - too easy! The only problem was, he didn't seem to be too concerned about pitch; perhaps his twin brother in a side-mounted seat would solve that problem. Hate to see him on a motorbike...

[snarek]

Bwahahahahahaha

That cheered me up.

Did you tell this guy he should get a job at China Southern :}

AK

[Capt Claret]

In a previous life I was training a guy who was having troubles with steep and min radius turns.

Being a fairly new instructor I discussed it with my CFI an ex military man, whom I credit with giving me a great start to life as a professional pilot. (Thanks Brian)

Anyhow, CFI suggests I keep an eye on sproggs head and boddy attitude during the turns. Sure enough sprogg was tiltin his head to keep the earth level during the turn, hence balance and control were not what they should have been.

After about 30 minutes of me holding his head in line with the vertical axis, he was completeing min radius/max rate turns beautifully! :ok:

[Islander Jock]

We had a student from o'seas who had actually flown solo "unoficially". He had a phobia though about turning to the right and kept leaning hard against the window every time he had to make a turn. This was even occurring during taxiing. The CFI discussed it with other CFIs and a DAME but nothing that was tried seemed to improve his unusual reaction. Unfurtunately this poor guy could not overcome his phobia and decided to give it away.

[Sheep Guts]

Well rereading this lot of posts I would have to say in all cases the persons involved had a Fear of flying, which was vertigo induced.

I have flown many tourists over the years and thats the first symptom I look for, leaning away from the window, or towards in somecases. I dont think its something perculiar to our Asian Friends. Lots of people have a fear of flying and are put up to the task to fly by their spouses or Career aspirations and I belive its not treatable. I think if you have a fear of flying, well dont fly,is the only safe natural solution.

It is unjust to push someone into flying when you know they have that fear aswell. I hate seeing it and try to convince the Convincers to back down an leave the Sufferers alone. All it achieves is a stressfull experience for the Person involved and also if the Person has an Ailment or Heart Problem. ( ie Pensioners on Holiday), it can be downright dangerous.
I see the amusing side to this story, but reall one needs to extrapolate oneself from the situation and try understand the sufferer, rather than laugh and bag there demise and apparent inability to enjoy flight.

LEAVE THEM ON THE GROUND.

Ofcourse, this may have been hard to identify in your situation Arm Out the Window. But one needs to be a bit more concerned, and not use cultural barriers as an excuse to heckel ones fear or unusual behaviour.

Sheep


P.S. Still amusing though :E

[Counter-rotation]

Happens all the time where I am now. That's just the ones beside me that I notice. One day I may think to glance behind me during a turn - might have a whole C206-load leaning in formation. Yes it's a bit anoying when the headset they're wearing is knocking into your shoulder and they're trying to climb into your lap... I joked with the last bloke when we got back that he obviously didn't ride a motorbike. To my surprise he told me all about how he rode one for years. Did he ride for years in a straight line:confused: :confused: Did he fall off when it came time to turn:confused: :confused: On the strenghth of that I think yes ALTITUDE as well as ATTITUDE is to blame...
I must confess I still have a bit of fun with them now and then:E :E

CR

[Capt Claret]

IN the example I gave I don't think the guy was scared of flying, just exhibiting a not too un-natural desire to keep the flat bit flat.

[Foyl]

Of course if said passenger had been female and blonde there would have been no complaint, just a continuous angle of bank... :p

[Gibbo]

...........good stuff AOTW, have you patented this idea yet? Any noticable instrument errors? ;)

I had a similar experience with some Indon survey officers, who were learning the basics of aerial mapping completion. One would always lean up against me in the Kiowa for a little comfort when we turned his way. He wouldn't admit it but I think the lack of doors made him nervous as it only happened in a LH turn. This didn't cause any real problems and was pretty much forgotten until one evening, we were having a waz on the way home. A relatively low and steep ridge crossing to the left resulted in my mate trying to climb into my seat, grabbing my hand and a big handful of collective on the way!

A short battle ensued where, upon realising that he was pulling up on the controls my friend tried to oblige by correcting his error and pushing it down again. End result; he passed the course from the back seat.:ok:

[Tinstaafl]

It's surprisingly common for people to adjust their body/head to try to stay aligned with the horizon. That's part of our evolutionary heritage and can take a fair bit of training to 'correct'.

Bicycle & motorbike riders have a slight extra habit to overcome during an a/c's banked turns: Bike riders tilt their head towards upright while they lean the bike & their body into the turn.

[Arm out the window]

Sheep, I would be the last one to enjoy watching people suffer; this guy certainly looked like he was having a good time, just had a surprisingly strong need to keep his head pointing up!
If anyone was in real distress, I'd land straight away.

How're you going, Gibbo? Still overseas?
Must have been exciting (probably not the right word) to have old mate grab the collective...not a heap of elbow room in these 206s, is there?

[Gibbo]

Still over here AOTW, living it large. Some of our BH mates are on the team here too.

Looking forward to coming home and getting back into some flying again, but no decisions yet. Had a baby boy 1 month ago; changes the priorities a bit! Hope all is good with you.:)

Back to the subject; I have struck the head tilting trait quite a few times a low level, in both pilots and front seat pax.

Gibbo

[Arm out the window]

Congratulations, Gibbo - about the only real downer with the young'uns is the sleep deprivation!
We've got 2 boys, 2 and 4, so currently in the mode where everything revolves around them, and we try to fit some quality personal time in every third Tuesday from 8 to 8.45 p.m...
not quite that bad, but looking forward to the time when they're not so labour intensive.

[Ascend Charlie]

So what's wrong with tilting the head?

When flying visually, I do it all the time, though I think my body stays upright. Just move the head until it aligns with the horizon. I have also had some funny times with pax leaning away from the turn, and having to shove them back upright.

One of the most extreme cases was a seriously old lady in the front seat, who physically could not hold herself up during the onset of the 1.03g in a mild turn, and slid onto the centre console - I had to fly one-handed through all the turns along the Parramatta River and support her with the other!

:8

[Gibbo]

Nothing wrong with "cageing" (sp) your head when flying low level, I think I may do it myself (I'll have to install that mirror I have been promising myself). It is much more noticable in a low turn to the left when you are looking at the top of LH seat helmet instead of in his ear.

There must be a Dr out there who can explain the reasons for this human gyro?

AOTW, cheers! The wife is a champ, so I get late and early shift and she does the nightime work.

[training wheels]

You know what would be REALLY weird? If this guy continued to do the same in IMC! LOL! :D

.. wonder if he has a brother who is a human TCAS? .... starts going WHOOP WHOOP WHOOP when he sees another aircraft !!! :D

[Tinstaafl]

The problem is the degrees of freedom allowed by the human AI's neck. Eventually the human IA's gimbals reach the limit of their degrees of freeedom. Try it during a roll...

Another factor is the limit of (inner ear referenced) lateral acceleration which can lead to disorientation. Keeping one's head oriented to aircraft normal during most manouvering means that the forces act similarly to gravity during normal, unaccelerated conditions.

[ROB-x38]

The coriolis illusion is a factor aswell. If you move your head enough the axes of the semicircular canals will change which can lead to a very disorienting tumbling sensation.