Vans Rv4

[Taildragger55]

Anyone here own/flown a VANS? How suitable would they be for a lowish time spamcan/Cub pilot. How much do they change hands for in good nick?


They certainly look like a serious airplane

[Algirdas]

Taildragger,
may be a great plane, but they almost never come up for sale - it seems owners don't part with them very often.
You can always build your own if you have a couple of thousand hours to kill.

[Lowtimer]

They come up for sale very rarely indeed in the UK. Haven't flown one but everyone I know who has likes them a lot. They do appear to fetch serious money on the few occasions when they do come up, like anything from £50K upwards assuming the engine has a bit of life in it.

You may do better trying to buy into a share of one that's recently been completed. A builder can pretty quickly bring back his cash outlay on the kit by syndicating a share or two out. Unlike most other kitplanes, RV builders quite often seem to be serial offenders - the Vans newsletter has a lot of stories of folk who finish one, and start another more or less straight away. Some people have built three! e.g. His and Hers combinations and "This one's for the kids to learn to fly in".

[MikeSamuel]

Some people (well, person) has three on the go all at once! But not wishing to name names :p They are very good aeroplanes though. I haven't flown in one yet but haven't heard one bad thing about them.

There is a video available - it may be quite cheesy American, but it gives a good insight into what they are like once finished.

If you are thinking of building then the quickbuild option is a very good idea. If you are looking to buy I think there is a share or two on the PFA bulletin board here (http://www.pfa.org.uk)

Good luck! :ok:

[Kingy]

I looked into bringing one back from the States a couple of years ago. The PFA discourage the import of homebuilts, but I believe a well built and documented Vans could be a safe bet. I was going to fly my inspector out with me...

I've seen them advertised for $40k. At this sort of money the numbers make sense, especially with the exchange rates what they are. You could try Trade a Plane. There is always a few for sale there.

Another thing I have found out is that the PFA only certify individual aircraft for aeros - the is no blanket approval - odd!

Kingy

[Taildragger55]

Thanks all.

Once again I am stunned by the unlimited knowledge of the PPRUNE community.

[Brooklands]

Taildragger55,

You could also try the UK RV Flyer web site (www.rvuk.flyer.co.uk ) , and the UK RV mailing list (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rvsqn/). The latter requires you to register if you want to post messages, but you can read the exisintg messages without having to register. I agree with the Lowtimer, your best bet would be finding a group to join.

Brooklands

[Warriner]

Taildragger,
Depending on your experience and willingness to learn, you shouldn't have any trouble converting to an RV, providing you can find one!
All the RVs have delightfully light harmonised controls, with especially nice ailerons and a good roll rate. If you are used to spam cans the most striking thing at first will be the fantastic all round visibility.
Performance is excellent. Even a 150 HP RV4 with fixed pitch prop. will blow most other two seaters into the weeds.
I have built and am now flying my RV8, (200 hp, VP prop.) so my experience relates to that type.
Ground handling is easy, with positive steering, very good brakes and good visibility. They do have a tendancy to wobble from side to side due to the springy undercarriage.
The same springyness can make landings a bouncy affair. You have to be on the ball, but its not difficult.
The RV is a "real" aeroplane and has to be treated with some respect, but it has few faults and is basically quite easy to fly.
You will need to get used to things happening much faster than in, say, your average PA28. But its so much more fun.
To give you some idea: Flown solo with half tanks, I am airborne in 6 seconds and less than 100 metres. Flap up almost immedeately, accelerating in the climb to around 100kts-110kts while reducing to 2500 rpm. Climb at about 2000fpm depending on temperature etc. Cruise at low level 160kts indicated, burning around 36-37 litres/hour. 170 kts TAS at 6000ft is a good ballpark figure. In smooth air I normally descend at 170-180kts with 2 to 4 inches off the cruise manifold pressure.
Slowing down for the circuit is easy with some forward planning. It will fly nicely at 85kts and flap 15 behind the dawdling Cessnas. Approach varys with weight, wind gusts etc. 75kts on base, 65kts on short final covers most things. A bit slower over the hedge if you are light. Those short stubby wings have a fair bit of induced drag at low speed. With a VP prop. heavy weight and the throttle closed, the thing will drop like a brick. You just need to be aware of that. It means, however, that properly flown the landing distance is short, between 200m and 300m in the real world.
All in all the RV is a very clever design. It may not be the latest high tech plastic tadpole, but I love mine and so do most owners.
In the end you get what you pay for with this aeroplane. Good luck.

[Tinstaafl]

A colleague is building one. Doing a lovely job too. Fuselage & wings are completed. He's now doing the panel. Lots to go yet though!

[smarthawke]

Taildragger

Just to back up what Warriner (and everyone else) said: buy or build an RV and you'll never regret it!

Remember the 4 is really a 1+1 with no instrument panel in the back and limited baggage space. The 6 is a bit more sociable and has a decent sized space behind the seats for up to 100lbs of baggage.

Wannabe fighter pilots obviously require a 4 for maximum fighterness but the 6 can give cumulo enemy air vehicles a pretty hard time too...

I co-built/own/fly a 6 and it such a brilliant aircraft. Ours is blessed with a 200hp motor and CS prop giving the following: take off and landing at mauw is never more than 300m even in nil wind (best I've done is one up, 1/3 tanks and 20kts on the nose which was 75m!). Climb at mauw/75kts is 1750fpm, cruise low level at 25/25 is 163kts, stall clean 52kts, full flpa 47kts. Fuel burn at 25/25 a tad over 40lts/hr. Range, no reserves (38USG) about 500nm. Not bad for a homebuild!

Even 150hp and a FP prop in a 4 or 6 will see easy cruise speeds of 150kts.

I had about 300hrs on Cessnas and a few on tail draggers when I converted but it wasn't a problem. Gear is a bit springy but get the speed right and it's fine. I've been in and out of tarmac runways with 15kts across and we both cope okay.

RV-4s were replaced by the grown up version - the 8, and the 6 by the 7 (uses 8 wings and things for commanality of parts).

4s can be found for £40k or so, 6s normally £45+.

My oppo is an ex Harrier pilot and he comes back with a smile on his face everytime which says it all!

Oh, and it's Vans NOT Rans......

[Bottle Fatigue]

Does anybody know if the RV6/7 can be cleared for aerobatics in the UK?

I remember noticing that only the 3/4 was approved for aeros on the PFA list before they changed the format.

I know that Van's say that the later versions are aerobatic, but that doesn't always apply on this side of the pond.

[smarthawke]

At the moment only the RV-4 is cleared for aerobatics in the UK. Unlike in the US, we have to have clearance by the authorities, even for Permit aircraft.

Tailplane spar structural tests are being prepared over here for the 6/7/8 and then it'll rely on satisfactory flight tests, including spin recovery which hopefully won't be a problem.

Originally Van's were going to carry out the tailplane tests but they changed their mind as they hadn't got time.....

Fortunately the PFA are going beyond their required remit and trying to help us RV people go beyond the straight and level.

[Flyin'Dutch']

Fortunately the PFA are going beyond their required remit and trying to help us RV people go beyond the straight and level

Wouldn't be the same if we could not re-invent the wheel over here.

FD

[Kingy]

As I said in my earlier post, according to a RV4 owner/builder - there is no blanket authorisation for aeros in this aircraft. Aparently, authorisation may be given following a satisfactory series of aerobatic flight tests - but it's not automatic.

Don't think that's the case for other aircraft on the small PFA aeros list...anyone?

Kingy

[Flyin'Dutch']

Hi Kingy,

I actually thought that this applied to all homebuilts.

FD

[Oscar Duece]

Having flown a 6 and a 8. I can say they are very well thought out 2 seaters, and very fast to boot. Especially the 8 with a 200 hp lycoming.

Depending on availablility and costs, I would have the thought the 8 was now much better than the 4, with plenty of room in back.

With that undercarriage, I would not be that happy operating some from a farm strip, especially a tri gear one.

Word of warning if you think about importing one from the states. If it's a 4 or a 6, look very carefully at the build quality, because the builder had to do more work on these early kits. Such as drilling, dimpling, countersinking etc (vans does this for you now). I have seen a very poorly made 6 in Florida, with oversize rivets hiding over size / sunk holes ?). Also in the states people tend to modify them beyond what would be allowed over here. I even heard of someone putting a turboprop in a 8.:uhoh:

[nonrad]

The RV-4 is a delight on short farm strips and its undercarriage is much less stiff and bouncy than the RV-8’s, making short landings easier in the -4. They both can and do operate from very small strips and can go to places where you would normally see Super Cubs.

The 180 hp RV-4 is faster and lighter than the 200 hp RV-8 (both with c/s props), this is from practical experience.

The RV-8 has a bigger fuselage and is wider than the 4’s - useful for very large pilots! There is a bit more room for the passenger as well. The room for luggage behind the seats is almost the same, but the 8 has another small locker behind the firewall. The -8 is available as a quick build kit, the -4 is a normal kit.

The big difference: only the -4 is cleared for aerobatics in UK +6g/-3g, and these aircraft roll and loop beautifully.

[smarthawke]

nonrad

You're legs are still too short though....!!

Our 6 will be down at work for its Permit renewal next month so we'll have to find time to compare the 4 and 6 (and 8?) side by side. Hopefully I'll be flying from there on the 17th.

Oh, and there's another oil drum there for you!

[MAJIC9]

Absolutely agreed with O.D. in his warning about the build quality. If nothing, for esthetic purposes :)

However, a small correction -- we (RV-7 builders) still have to drill [to final size], dimple and countersink... What Van's has done for us is they pre-punched holes, so you don't have to figure out where the holes need to go (and they line up perfectly). Made it much easier and, for me, possible to do.

Building an RV is tons of fun.. if you have time, space, and resources... go for it.

[360BakTrak]

I've just bought an 1/8 share in an RV4 and done my checkout. Its a fantastic aeroplane! Best machine I've ever flown with a propellor! Its 150 hp and fixed pitch but still climbs at 1800fpm and cruises at over 130kts....MAGIC!
Would love to try building my own but I dont think my bank balance is up to it!:D