RN Pilots-Time away from home?

[Don Gilhorst]

Hi guys. Perhaps this subject is in the wrong forum but I thought you guys could give me the answers I am after.

I am currently looking in a favourable position to be accepted in the RN as a pilot. Having spent a number of years pusuing a military flying job this is fantastic.
However I am 24 and recently got engaged and my missus to be isn't too keen on the idea to say the least. Her main concern is the time we will spend apart.

Can any of you guys tell me the cold hard truth about how much time pilots spend away from their families and what it is like??

I am going down to Yeovilton soon for a look around, so I will get a chance to chat to some guys then. I also have a few friends in the early stages of flying in the RN but I would like to know what it is like when you are working operationally.

You can imagine the distress these two loves are causing me!!

[fuel2noise]

Basic answer is that you will spend more time away than at home for most of your active flying career. Once qualified on type you can expect to deploy with your squadron to a designated ship whenever that ship is at sea...which is a great deal of time. Once disembarked back to home base (Culdrose or Yeovilton) you can still be in the frame to be sent off to other ships (usually for shorter periods...but it is still time away).

Most guys enjoy it as a single bloke but as soon as a wife +/- kids is in the equation it all gets harder to balance. Separation from wife/kids is a major reason why people leave the RN in their 30s or earlier depending on how much pressure they get from a long-suffering spouse.

I know I sound v negative but if you are thinking along the lines of 'how will my wife like me being away in this flying career' you may be lining yourself up for some serious grief! Bottom line is that flying in all the services requires family life to be put a fair way down the list of priorities despite what recruiters may say. Finally, the early years of your flying career will be the most intense from a 'time away' point of view. After, say, 4 or 5 years you might get the chance to qualify as an instructor and do a shore-based job or two... this is not guaranteed however.

[Thud Ridge]

Don't forget that you are going to have to go through all the training as well!

This will be a year at Dartmouth where you will only get one weekend off in the first term, and not too many more in the 2nd and 3rd term.

There is then the EFT and BFT stages of training (about 6 months at each) but also the repective holds between BRNC, EFT, BFT, and conversion to front-line. Each hold can be anything from a weekend to 6 months and maybe beyond. Each stage, and normally each hold, is at a different base, so there is a lot of travelling about to think about.

I do know married guys who have got married quarters, but i would chat to the guys at Yeovilton to get the best advice. A lot will depend on where your 'trouble-and-strife-to be' intends on living for the duration.

I'm not sure if this is encouraging, but it is from a person (i.e. me) that has been there as a singley. To give an idea of time scale, i joined as a 21 year old graduate, and i expect to be frontline by 25.

Please don't think i am being negative. I have enjoyed just about every minute of my time (the just-about bit mainly involves not eating for several days) and i wouldn't change it for anything. Dartmouth is a great year. The training through EFT and BFT is the best in the world (and an awesome amount of fun) and the holdovers can be used to maximum advantage!!

I can't tell you too much about front-line, but a lot will depend on which aircraft you fly.

Hope it helps,

Fly Navy

TR

[OMT]

Just a further word on training time and holdovers:

BRNC course now lasts 5 phases for flight this is works out to be around 9 or 10 months depending on when you join and hence what Leave periods you are there for.

They have also moved flying grading from you last term to your second phase, this means that you will know if you are going to EFT within 14 weeks of joining BRNC - much better than doing nearly a year and then getting chopped.

Also, SMAC - survival course has been moved so instead of doing this during your final term at Dartmouth you will instead do it when you leave.

If you go rotary you can expect you training to look something like this:

BRNC - 9-10 months
2 weeks Leave
SMAC - 4 weeks
Holdover - 2 week to 6 months
EFT - 6 months
Holdover - 5-9 months
BFT - 6 months
Holdover - 5-12 months
OFT........

Realistically training is going to take about 4 years from walking through the door at BRNC to getting your Wings.

I am currently in the training pipeline and am loving it. Even the bad bits are okay!

Am also attached and the missus is not happy cos am away from her so much, and am seeing her more now than I will do when I am frontline probably. This, of course, sucks; however I would rather be doing this job than anything civvy street has to offer so do what YOU want, not the missus. Harsh but fair!

Definitely Fly Navy.

[Arkroyal]

4 years training! What are they playing at? In my day (there he goes, old f@rt) holdovers were rare, and few got delayed more than a couple of months.

Not that that's any good to you, Don.

My 16 years cost me a divorce and much heartache, but on balance, I'd do it again. I loved it, though it was the second line jobs that strained my marriage to breaking point, not the separation!:confused:

Tough choice and a lot of honesty required in discussions you will HAVE to have with'er indoors.

If I'd been faced with 40 years of airline flying rather than the absolute thrill of military aviation, followed by jaust a few years civvy, I'd have found something else to do.

Fly Navy and if she's up to it, you'll thrive, if not............................How many times, during the inevitable downs, are you going to regret it and blame her for your dead end life?

[Vage Rot]

Don,

You'll both find it very hard when you are going through training. If you zip off home every opportunity you can then you are not 'one of the boys'. Training is tough and the support of the rest of the lads is vital - sometimes that support is through getting pi55ed and chewing the fat. If you stay at base when you could have gone home then you'll get grief from the fiancee - trust me, if that happens you'll not concentrate on the training 100%

Answer:- if your missus to be is a party animal that can integrate with the boys and have a good time then bring her along at the weekend and join in the fun. If not the the harsh reality is that you have to chose which you want more: a fiancee or to fly. You can always get another fiancee but you'll probably never get chance to train to fly in the military again. (I'll prbably get a barrage of abuse for that!)

Also, as stated earlier in the thread, life will involve a LOT of time away from home. It's not easy on the wives and families in any of the 3 services but the navy must be about the hardest.

Think long and hard about your decision - you've only got one chance at either (unless she's absolutely mad about you!).

Good Luck

Vage Rot

[wessex19]

On my first day at the RAN College, HMAS Cresswell, my Divisional Officer told us first up, "if you can't find a wife in your initial issue Pussers kit, its because we don't think you need one!!!" Mate, you find plenty of loving on your trips to the Far East!!! Good Luck and enjoy your time:D

[fuel2noise]

Don,

There are some wise words here from Ark Royal and Vage Rot (among others). If you read between the lines the guys who have only recently joined tell you all about the initial training phase (weeks here, weeks there, etc) but that is not what makes or breaks a career from a wife/family point of view.

FA CT is that if you join the RN you WILL spend a LOT of time away and if your wife to be does not like it......... I did 24 yearsin the Fleet Air Arm and ended my time in charge of flying from one of our carriers so I have seen the human carnage left behind in broken marriages (not mine I am happy to report).

Someone posted along the lines of you can always get another fiancee but not another chance at a military flying career. That is spot on if not probably what you want to hear! You will need to give military flying training 110% of your life for sure...it is not a 'nice little training course' getting home every night, etc. After that the services 'own' you and will call the shots till you leave. You are very well advised to decide what is REALLY going to come first in the priorities of life before signing on! best of luck; the flying is the best you will get outside NASA.

[Don Gilhorst]

Well guys, I have been reading your replies with much interest. What has been said is pretty much bang on with what I expected to hear. Nobody I feel is being negative. After all I wanted the truth from guys in the know!!! Although it does seem a case of damned if I do and damned if I don't. Some dark days ahead I think!!!
I guess it is time to dig deep and and make a choice. What adds to the difficulty is that on the flip side I have a good lifestyle and a very good job which has great opportunities to take me up the ladder, round the world etc. I also have a few civvy flying jobs on the back burner which could become possibilities. However civvy street can never be as exciting as the military.
Why give myself so much grief?? I don't know, perhaps the be all you can be mentality.

Cheers for your input guys. Much appreciated. Just hope I make the right decision.

'somewhere between a rock and a hard place'

[BEagle]

Once upon a time, people "........joined the Navy, to see the World"

Now is it me or what. Ships require water in which to operate. Proper water, not just the Grand Union canal. Hence they will Go To Sea. So, unless you happen to be married to a shipmate, 'twould seem pretty bleedin' obvious that naval chums will spend rather more time away from their other half than the lateral-ambulatory folk will.

But don't you chaps have a "Girl in every port"?????

[Nozzles]

Don,
I am obliged to concur with all the posts I have seen here. The only thing I can add is this: If you don't try it, you'll spend the rest of your life wondering what it would have been like.......

[Oggin Aviator]

My first tour was 40 months. Looking through my logbook confirms that I spent 30 of those 40 months away at sea on the CVS. Good mates on board, a great time, all with a fiancee then wife at home.
2nd tour as an instructor at home - spent a lot of time away on detachment etc - had great fun with a lot of good mates with a wife and ankle biter at home.
3rd tour - on the ship again for quite a lot however less time away due to programming and the new "harmony" rules (dont ask me to quote them) with a wife and 2 ankle biters at home.
4th tour - all the family together (aarh, lovely)

There is no denying there is a lot of seperation. You get used to it, you make the best of it. The wife gets used to it, she makes the best of it and if you have a strong marriage/relationship all will be fine.

Dont give up the opportunity to fly some great aircraft and have some great times. Be honest with the missus and work it out with her.

Good luck.

Oggin

[Feck]

wessex19, I think Don was making a balanced call given the position he's in.

Don, talk to the guys at Yeov / Culdrose, get a feeling for whether you'd fit in. Especially in the long term. It will probably be exciting flying (although pinging / bagging might not float your boat), but sometimes there's just more to life.

I joined thinking "I'd hate to go through life knowing I could have and didn't". I've loved most of it. The flying's fantastic. At some inevitable point though, the ball-ache outweighs the good times. If you think this will be far enough down the line for joining to be worth it, go for it. Whatever your decision, don't have any regrets.

:ok:

[Triple Matched TQ]

Give it a go.

Time away varies with a/c type and the latest crisis in the RN this week. The flying is exciting even as a pinger (maybe not a bagger). Even on longer deployments of 6-7 months around the world, you usually get a stand down period where your wife can come out to visit you.

When you visit Yeovilton just see how long they are currently away.

[snafu]

Don

Time away from home - yep, there is some, but I think that a couple of the previous posters may have exaggerated a touch! OK, my memory of BRNC is probably a bit out of date, but I certainly remember the opportunity to get away for more than a couple of weekends during the year that I spent there. Equally, on holdovers, the weekends were generally your own, so go where you want and do what you want with whoever you want (within reason, obviously).

Once you're frontline, it's pretty much the luck of the draw and depends on a thousand variables - which specialisation you end up in (Junglie, Pinger, Bagger, Lynx or Stovie), which Squadron, what's happening in the world and where El Presidente decides UK troops should be saving democracy this week to name just a few. In my most recent 5 years (mostly frontline), I've spent 8 months in Bosnia (4 trips), 2 months in Iraq, 2 months in the Caribbean, 2 months in Northern Ireland and 4 months in the Mediterranean as block deployments away. If you include trips that lasted a week here and a few weeks there for smaller exercises, detachments and courses, I've probably spent a total of about 6 months or so away from home in each year. Obviously, there are people who have done more than this, but there will also be some that have done less, it all varies.

At the end of the day, your other half has to understand that the job will make demands on your time that are not normally found in a 'normal' 9-5 job outside. (Officer of the Day at an air station on New Year's Eve springs to mind!) If she can accept this simple fact, the social life can offer some compensation and the cameraderie between the boys and girls on the Squadrons transfers itself fairly readily to the wives, girlfriends and partners outside, who can be there for each other while we're away. At the end of the day, I've been here for 13 years and I still get a buzz from both the job and the people I'm lucky enough to work with - I just wonder how many people outside can say the same thing?:ok:

[scroggs]

The crux of whether your marriage survives the inevitable separations is how self-reliant your missus is. If she can stand on her own two feet, join in with Squadron and families life while you're away, and not feel that you've left her to rot while you enjoy yourself, you'll both manage.

The long detachments (whether at sea or in some bloody desert - or even in basic training) are less of a problem than the readjustment to life together when you return. If you both can recognise and cope with that, life is so much easier! Remember that your wife is - and very much has to be - an individual in her own right. Don't get jealous of the fact that she will inevitably develop her own life. Support her in exactly the way that you'd like her to support you. It's not rocket science - but it's not easy.

The rewards are huge if you make it work. The Services are one of the few places left where a strong marriage is valued and encouraged, and where real support is available when times are tough.

Explain this to her; if she's half the woman you hope she is, she'll relish the challenge.

[Arkroyal]

So, Don. What's your New Year's resolution?

Go on, you'll kick yourself for years if you turn down the chance to Fly Navy.

If the missus really can't live with that, then she ain't the right Mrs Gilhorst.

My 16 years proved that Mrs R07 1st was not the right one either. So, in a way, the Junglies helped me find Mrs Arky 2nd. Cheers mates!

Great thing about bangin yer 'ead on a wall, is when it stops. Sign up!

Having left ten years ago on Saturday, I can look back on it with detachment, and say that joining the RN was a bloody good move.

[The Ferret]

Don G - there is some good advice here but the final decision rests only with you and your partner.

I am now in my 26th year in the RN and only got divorced once! Probably due to separation but my first wife was set in her ways and a job and did not want to follow me around the UK whilst I changed jobs. I am now very happily married with 2 young rugrats and still serving. This year I spent 5 months away in the Gulf and my family learned to cope without me - sometimes its tough but if I had the choice again I would follow the same path - even with the divorce! The variety of flying and comradeship that you will experience in the Service is second to none and you will not find it elswhere in civilian life.

To give you an indication of possible time away I have calculated that over my 26 years I have spent nearly 7 of them away at sea - and each peacetime trip away involved seeing my wife at least once during each deployment when she flew out to see me - just think of all those holidays to exotic places - and you only have to pay for one air fare!:ok: :ok:

To reiterate some advice already given - if you do not try it you will never know how good it really can be! You will regret it if you don't give it a go!

Good luck!:) :) :)

[Starboard Flip Flop]

Hey Don ...

I'm a WAFU down at Yeovilton and i live on board because i'm single so probably not the best person to comment on married life and the 'beak' you'll get from Dragon Ops when you tell her you have to go away again!

The deal is this mate ... you're looking to become a navy pilot, which unfortunatly from your point of view means, by definition, that you go away ... like on boats and things ... boats don't go very fast and take a LONG time to go places ... You will be away from the start of training and post you becoming qualified for AT LEAST 50% of the year ... oh and did i mention that includes Xmas, New Year, the wife's birthday and any other special occasion your wife deems important!

However ... this is not bad ... this is all very very good ... you'll have more fun around the world than you thought possible ... you'll have your own personal cruise ship to take you to the next party ... and when you get there, you will be the guy that all the rest of the ship's company wants to be!

My advice ... fly navy ... tell your lovely lady you'll bring her lots of presents when you come back and that you won't be around the whole time to annoy her once you join up ... oh and get an account with INTERFLORA

Cheers mate ... see you in the wardroom bar ... i'll be the pissed bloke on the pool table :ok: