FC, MT, TC and TUI

[FD Standby]

Here we are AGAIN!

Someone (webmaster), please tell me why this site has such a continual preference of TC, over (British) MyTravel.

We discuss Mytravel to extreems, and as soon as a TC thread of a similar nature arises, it is moved.

Then, to make matters look better, the Mytravel thread is moved. Only Mytravel gets "Aircrew Notices", and TC is hidden away in the less often read area "Other Forums" - "Airlines".

Why?

[dada]

why indeed? it's as if the industry is out to talk mytravel out of business to make it easier for themselves. i believe everything myt mgmt are doing represents a company fighting for survival yes, but detemined to do their all to make it worthwhile. selling off non-core businesses seen by some as a fire sale not a sensible thing to do under current conditions. TC watch out, the
MYT staff are not going to let the company slip away without one hell of a fight.

[tailscrape]

Oh my god, conspiracy theories now....... unbelievable!!

[dada]

opinions tailscrape - get lost

[tailscrape]

dada

Grow up. Your theories are way off the mark. MYT are in big trouble. TC are in trouble too admittedly, but there is no conspiracy here. You just sound desperate to most of us.

Have you not learnt how to say mama yet, or is dada your only word so far?????:{

[SLT]

I wouldn't waste your breath dada!!!!! If you have a gander at our good friend tailscrape's profile, everything you need to know about him is there - self-confessed!!! And I quote (just in case he changes it!!) - Occupation - incompetenet monkey troublemaker!

He can't even spell! He's a stirrer who reckons he knows it all - ignore him and he'll go away. (Hopefully)

[FD Standby]

"Conspiracy Theory"?
"Conspiracy" - When I went to school, the wood conspiracy meant something altogether different to bias or preference !

"Theory" - I am not theorising here, I am stating fact!!! The last time Mytravel was a talking point, the same thing happened (to a worser extent if I remember correctly). The TC threads get treated very differently, and I want to know why?

This website loses all credibility if it's not run in a fair and balanced manner, and used by sensible, educated professionals!! Is it tailscrape?

[PPRuNe Towers]

Excellent:uhoh: :uhoh:

Seems like ages since someone's had a good go at us here on R+N.

While this is undoubtedly a very important and sensitive topic to many of you we would like to suggest stepping back and reviewing the thread.

7 pages - impressive and therefore the complaint must surely be valid? Perhaps not though. From the bottom of page three right the way through TC is raised and the posts through to page 7 are in fact an alternating cycle of 'your airline is more mismanaged than mine.' between My Travel and TC protagonists.

There's a marvelous precis of the style in the post above to save you changing forums. In the absence of any actual news the thread lost its place in here.

As to the TC thread if you care to look at it again it was entirely initiated as an scathing satire on the situation. This forum is intended for Rumours and News - our opinion on where, editorially, threads are best suited varies on which of us is looking after the forum.

Regards
Rob

[FD Standby]

I write to continue my last posting about the above subject, because in the true spirit of an open discussion, that post has been closed off.

PPRuNe Towers - I agree with you that the MyTravel topic became a bit tit-for-tat, and I'm sure that is why someone started a new (TC) one. The TC thread was a reasonable debate, but the so was the MYT one when that started. Looking at the facts, the difference is very clear!!!

The facts:

Firstly, as stated above, I ask the question, and the subject is closed off within a few hours!!!

Secondly, the TC thread was moved to a harldy read forum, after just one day of debate. One day? MYT were moved after nine!!! And why the difference in destinations?? Aircrew Misc is a busy thread, while the other one gives much less exposure!!

Interestingly, the TC thread was moved the day before the MYT one!!!

I comment because so far 13,736 people have read that MYT is going bust etc etc. That cannot help - and most is written by people who know nothing about the situation!!!

I'm sure that because of a convenient and timely move, the TC thread was only been seen by 1570.

This happened last year, and is happening now!!!

WHY?

[McD]

Firstly, as stated above, I ask the question, and the subject is closed off within a few hours!!! FO Standby, perhaps you're having a bit of trouble with the concept. Let me try to help you understand, by repeating what PPRuNe Towers said prior to closing your original thread.

"This forum is intended for Rumours and News"

Get it? It's not for threads on how things are moderated. So, just in case it's not perfectly clear, your thread was closed because R&N is not the appropriate place for it.

So what do you do if you have a problem or question regarding the moderation of a thread?

e-mail the admin staff and/or moderators (as applicable to the specific forum).

Hope that's clear enough, and as such, I'm sure you'll now understand fully why this thread is closed as well.

Get started on your e-mail(s) if you still have concerns.

[NACUD]

Let no one be in any doubt as to the hidden agenda’s that are involved by some who post on Pprune. It has happened before and no doubt will happen again.

This is not the first occasion that derogatory threads about MYT have been allowed to remain on the main forum for some considerable time after the initial post. It appears to me, to be a bit more than a coincidence that it is only when another thread is started, in this case on TC, that the MYT tread is moved.

The results of the big three European travel groups, TUI, TC and MT, are due to be announced soon and I suspect that their results will be similar. It is likely that all will be in the region of a 300 million Euro loss with write downs of assets further affecting the balance sheets. In all the groups there will be profitable companies, as well as those making large losses. MT has attracted more media comment in the UK than the other two because it is a UK based company. I seem to recall that Thomson’s took an awful lot of stick and its share price crashed before it was rescued by the Germans. Today it would appear that TUI has debts of 12.5 billion Euros made up of net debts, off-balance sheet liabilities, a loan which was due for repayment earlier this year and may have been repaid, as well as a convertible bond due for refinancing next year. TC is expected to announce losses of 296 million Euros and write downs of 1 billion Euros, although the UK division is expected to be profitable.

The only large tour operator that seems to have got it right after 11 September is First Choice. They have also had a huge slice of luck, in that their aircraft leases came up for renewal shortly after the tragic events in New York and they were able to renegotiate exceptional rates. They have also managed their capacity and the holiday products they sell extremely well.

As far as MT is concerned the battle for survival is well and truly on and I do not think any employee is under any illusions as far as the future is concerned. On the plus side it must be remembered that the company has reached agreement with its banks on a refinancing package, as well as a deal with its bondholders. Both the bond holders and the banks could have put the group into administration. Part of the recovery plan and the deal with the banks is to sell assets to help the group back to financial health. To date MT has sold off assets worth over £180 million and along with other cost savings to come, which will unfortunately involve redundancies, a slow and painful recovery is under way. The revival is not going to happen overnight and there will be major obstacles to overcome before the employees in the airline and the group can feel secure.

I suspect that both TC and TUI will need recovery plans and that they may well be forced down the MT route of selling off parts of their groups to repay debt or fund cash flow.

For those of you on final salary pension schemes it may be worth ensuring that your company has no “black hole” in its accounts and your scheme is fully funded.

[spy]

Good points well made!

[McD]

This is not the first occasion that derogatory threads about MYT have been allowed to remain on the main forum for some considerable time after the initial post. It appears to me, to be a bit more than a coincidence that it is only when another thread is started, in this case on TC, that the MYT tread is moved. NACUD, if you haven't read it yet, I'll refer you to PPRuNe Towers' post, discussing the actions taken on the previous MYT thread. Here's the link: http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=109215
(PPRuNe Towers' post is the last post in the thread.)
If anyone still has any concerns regarding this subject, please e-mail the admins/mods, rather than continuing the discussion on R&N.

Otherwise, very interesting post. All the best to those employed by these companies.

[LIMA OR ALPHA JUNK]

Ah, I wondered where the debate had moved to !

[kinsman]

See if we can keep the lid on this one!

[CaptainFillosan]

Well, if you don't it will go the way of the others.

[PPRuNe Towers]

In the absence of any substantive news the thread over on Aircrew notices remains open for your opinions.

I understand feeling are high but for the conspiracists out there I suspect the Towers household actually understands far better than many of you.

Between Mrs Towers and myself 5 airline failures since 1990.