CitiExpress to axe IOM flights? (Merged)

[mcdonnellluke]

Hello
Heared a rumour somewhere that BA CitiExpress are to axe the flights from IOM-LPL, BHX and GLA before the end of the year and the ATP fleet is to be withdrawn. Has this been officially confirmed? Has anyone got more info on this?
Luke

[Findo]

An co-incidence that Manx are supposed to be starting ION - GLA on 1st December ?

No smoke without kerosene ;)

[ecj]

My guess is that the beancounters will neatly tie up the loose ends by the end of March 2004, or perhaps some other budget quarter. Just look at the 10 November 2003 BA news release "Good progress made in difficult quarter" Future shape and size objectives etc.

Before the official Concorde announcement was made to cease flying, the printers had already been told about what was required aircraft mag wise in the future. Good source again?

[Yog-Sothoth]

Company meeting tomorrow night on the Rock to confirm the last person to leave the IOM to remember to switch off the lights.
The latest masterplan from de la Fosse and his minions involves closing the IOM as a base, making around thirty pilots - if not redundant (all fairly senior) - then at least facing mainland relocation. The real joke comes with the service continuity.
The Manchester routes will still be operated, albeit from Manchester WITH NIGHTSTOPPING CREWS!!! Lots of cost savings there then!
The London route to LGW will be operated in reverse by an EOG 737, again with nightstopping crews. Meanwhile the 146 boys have to move across as well.

Tragedy, shameful. These fly by night management types, no commitment to the Company, here today gone (back to mainline) tomorrow, no responsibility, just a desire to make their hard man management marks prior to their next little niche :yuk:

[Capt.Slog]

I've got little niche for them. Wish they'd use it!

Best of luck to all the good guys on the rock.

[HZ123]

I have just been told that the BACX ATP's and the Dash 8's will finish by the end of the year and are unlikely to be replaced. Either EDI or GLA or both may be outsourced to reflect the loss of a number of routes. Seems to become more and more clearer that BACX lifeline is running out.

[hoey5o]

and precisely who told you ?

[Mr Angry]

Yeh, me too! Love to know where you got that from HZ123.

[boynefly]

What is known is that wef April 2004 BACX will only operate IOM-LGW-IOM and IOM-LUT-IOM with one BA46 and IOM-MAN-IOM with a Dash 8.

The BA46 will be IOM based and the Dash 8 will be based at MAN but will nightstop at IOM daily.

What isn't known is if the fleet of company high-spec Mercs and BMWs will remain on IOM?

[dwlpl]

If HZ123 is right re the Dash 8 being dumped by BACX, where does that leave boynefly post stating that the IOM/MAN route is to be flown with the Dash8?

Plus what routes are the passenger ATP's of Emerald going to be utilised on?

Could there be a possible amalgam of the above?;)

[Mark Lewis]

The Dash 8s are being retired at the end of next year, the ATPs nearer the start. Therefore they can operate the route for a few more months while deciding whether it will be viable with an ERJ or a 146 i would have thought.

[hoey5o]

HZ123 is not right especially with regard to the dash.

[HZ123]

Yesterdays source was one of the BA DMs at EDI who was instrumental in pointing out the revised training budgets for the rest of this financial year and was far from a happy bunny with the lack of prospects. Let us hope that they are wrong as the way in which BACX has been handled from the outset is not a lesson in competant business management.

[Cattle Class]

And a certain junior and inexperienced turboprop manager who should be surely be sorting out the demise of half his fleet, is instead about to start a Base Trainers course. Talk about having your cheese and eating it!!!

[MR777]

So who is buying the ATP's ???

Apparantly the DASH 8 sale is no conspiracy, as the company have stated that they will be out of TP's by 2005. The only thing new is that they want to accelerate that Plan ASAP!

[145qrh]

The Grand Fromage turbo prop must have been a Capt now for at least 18 months,maybe even slightly longer, about 200 hrs P1 commercial,if ATP average hours are anything to go by, so I don't know how you can say he lacks experience.

He is a nice guy, but his promotion, must be one of the biggest reasons to close BACX down, it was bad enough with CP ,our man of many titles,was enough to make me leave.

As Billy Connolly once said, wanting a management job should be reason enough to ban you from getting it, his thoughts were about politicians though. Another group who speak for a long time without actually saying anything, and also not to be trusted.

[gcayman]

Is IOM-LGW likely to remain longterm and what about INV-LGW which looks like being the only 146/RJ route that doesnt touch MAN/BHX/LCY? I seem to remember when DanAir operated this route it was one of their most successful?
Thanks

[glynn-kayes]

Gla/Edi to Bhd also up for the chop shortly,with an average load factor of 12percent.Apprarently EZY have 85 percent of the market on Scotland to Northern Ireland routes as recorded on the BELFAST TELEGRAPHS recent report (and i quote)EASYJET RULES THE SKYS OVER ULSTER.
You can read it for yourselves at [url]WWW.BELFASTTELEGRAPH.CO.UK/BUSINESS

[This is a crisis]

Just curious to know where my post went.....it was before the one that ended in...'talk about having your cheese and eating it'!! Do the management of BaCx moderate this forum?:confused:

[boynefly]

Yea I noticed that had gone too!

Guess the BA46 driver in question didn't like it?

[Hogg]

Well I didnt delete it, wot was it about???

[This is a crisis]

It basically said......

A rumour for someone to confirm or deny.....that, allegedly, a certain person who has been known to fly ATP and E145....has allocated himself a place on a BA46 course/refresher in order that he can remain 'based' in the Isle of Man for tax purposes.

I do hope it is untrue because at least he has a job and to have himself put on the IOM establishment just for tax purposes when the jobs of people based here are so uncertain at the moment is about as low as BaCx management could get.

Dont narrow it down so much. Cheers Hogg

[PPRuNe Pop]

As I was trying to solve a question for one of my mod colleagues as to where a post went. I thought I would just explain where the This is a Crisis post did go. Apparently about a BAe 146 driver whose name was given - with some abuse!

The short answer is that it was being removed to the Admin sin bin! Because we do not allow the naming of names, and we especially do not like abuse.

(Just as I was about to post I noted that TIAC re-posted). Well no names and no abuse. Maybe he read my mind;)

[This is a crisis]

I wish to point out I did not name any names in my original post as those who saw it will testify!!!! and I take great exception to the allegation I did. Furthermore there was nothing abusive in my post... I was merely relaying something I had learnt from a source close to the company. If it is true i think the IOM based crews have a right to know about it.

I still maintain that as I did not name any names or say anything abusive my post must have been removed for other, more sinister reasons.

[ALLMCC]

With regard to GLA/EDI - BHD, have it on good authority that these may well be taken over by Loganair when BACX ditch them - Loganair already operate a few NI routes and, of course, operated from BHD until BRAL/BACX took the routes over - good luck to Loganair if this is true (don't celebrate just yet Glynn - Kayes)

[HZ123]

Can you tell me is Loganair a BA franchaisse, is it still an independant company or does BA have a share holding within it. It certainly operated as a franchaisse someyears ago.

[gcayman]

It is certainly a BA franchise though believe its independantly owned. Wonder what aircraft type they would operate on GLA/EDI - BHD. The other ATP routes in Scotland are ABZ-LSI and GLA-ABZ/BEB/SYY. I think its a total of 5 ATPs based in Scotland.

[ALLMCC]

Loganair was part of BRAL from Oct 96 to Mar 97 when it became independent again following a management buyout led by Scott Grier OBE - this is still the current position as far as I am aware. They are still a BA franchisee operating in BA livery.

I assume the a/c type to be used would be Saab 340s as presumably the Islanders & Twin Otters are mostly used on inter island & air ambulance services & the single 360 on cargo/freight duties.

[Mark Lewis]

The Shorts 360 (G-BPFN) went to Aurigny a few months ago, and interestingly, at BAs request, Loganair are having to repaint the entire Islander fleet into their own colours, whilst still allowing BA to market the flights they operate on. Image problems I gather!

[billyg]

The Loganair rumour is now confirmed. They are to operate 7 routes previously operated by CitiExpress including GLA-IOM in direct competition with Euromanx!

[ALLMCC]

Will this involve taking over any of the BACX ATPs? If not, will they not require additional a/c to operate these routes or will they use the existing Saab340s?

[FlyboyUK]

BACX announcement at lunchtime stated that Loganair will wet-lease 4 ATP's from BACX (including flight & cabin crew)

[skidmarksIOM]

Hi from the Rock,

BACX is grounding all it's ATP's by 31 March 2004. The Dash 8's are due for return in 2005 unless a buyer can be found before then.

Eastern are taking over ground handling of all BACX flights (LGW, LTN & MAN) wef 1 April 2004 (Quite an apt date!)

They will also handle Loganair and whoever else is stupid enough to want them to.

63 staff are being made redundant and they will then have to apply to Eastern to get their old job back - on a reduced pay scale and less benefits no doubt!

BACX's Mr Evans sees this as "A neccessary step in ensuring the survival of the comapny" ie getting rid of the dross they didn't really want when they went after the Heathrow slots.

We predicted this 3 years ago, and so far its all coming true. He says Engineering is going to expand, but if you believe anything they say now, then you are living in cloud cuckoo land.

[gcayman]

Please clarify your comment "Eastern are taking over ground handling at MAN"?
Do you mean all BACX flights at MAN. Thats a huge number?

[skidmarksIOM]

Sorry, I didn't make that very clear. Eastern are taking over the ground handling of all BA flights on the Isle of man, not at MAN.

Hopefully they will employ the people BA are dumping, but we wait to see.

[Captain Rodders]

Skid

According to the Loganair Press Release, BACX will continue to operate the routes on behalf of them until March 2005 with ATPs

Five additional aircraft (but not specified as all ATPs) and due to be replaced within the year.




The agreement means that Loganair will now operate all of the internal Scottish routes currently served by BA CitiExpress. Loganair, which currently operates on 33 routes with a fleet of 15 aircraft, operates a franchise partnership with British Airways. That agreement was renewed for a 5-year period earlier this year. The company is headquartered at Glasgow Airport and has a payroll of 210.

Today's agreement - which will see the company lease five additional aircraft - also extends the Scottish external network, which already includes Derry, Cork and Manchester, to include Belfast and the Isle of Man.

The seven routes acquired today from British Airways CitiExpress are Glasgow - Stornoway; Glasgow - Benbecula; Glasgow - Belfast; Glasgow - Isle of Man; Glasgow - Aberdeen; Aberdeen - Shetland and Edinburgh-Belfast.

Loganair will take over the new routes from March 1 next year and, for a 12-month period so as to maintain continuity, will operate with BA aircraft and crews. Meanwhile, Loganair is evaluating various aircraft types to select a replacement for the BAe ATP aircraft currently in use.



CR

[robbo]

If anyone watched BBC North West Tonght news programme tonight they would have wondered what all the fuss was about with BACitiExpress. How could anyone suggest that they were pulling out of the IOM? Quite the contrary, according to the report, they are safeguarding 300 engieering jobs on the Island. Do the power that be suffer from short term memory loss? No mention of the numerous redundancies!!!!!!

[Mark Lewis]

Isn't the main Citiexpress engineering base at GLA? If so why are they keeping the IOM engineering base open for just 2 or 3 flights? Is the GLA one closing, or are they just going to be making better use of the IOM facility?

[Yog-Sothoth]

So to clarify - we have one Chief Pilot conveniently switching types to ensure his basing on the IOM remains unchanged, whilst 20 odd line pilots are uprooted. Of course, we had another Chief Pilot who relocated to the mainland recently, but unwisely admitted off the record he had 'negotiated' a large salary increment to make up for his tax loss. Of course, when asked officially he decided (not to deny it, but...) to decline to comment. We have a third Chief Pilot already talking about his triple 7 course back with "Platinum BA" as opposed to we 'plastic' types. :uhoh: Apart from the surprise that an outfit our size NEEDS three Chief Pilots, you begin to appreciate why we have cost overruns. Oh, and then there is the Fleet Manager, ex Flight Engineer, good type but no P1 experience to speak of doing a TRE course, in spite of the fact his fleet is marked for disposal this year. There's also the Training Manager type, currently on the ATP who has managed to jump many places on the RJ allocation list in spite of mysteriously having no bid for the same. Funnily enough, he has produced a letter pre-dated from a previous Ops Manager 'promising' him such a job. The rats are swarming up the mast of the sinking ship!!!
The company's route structure is being carved up and disposed of piecemeal. Those of us who have been here a while are in despair. No-one believes ANYTHING they are told, unless it originates in the Highlife magazine, or comes from the refuellers.

Watch Eastern Airlines very carefully chaps!:ok: