Flying to Basra (Iraq)

[chicfly1]

I can't believe that any airline would send you there! What is the general feeling amongst those that you work with? I would be very unhappy to fly to Iraq, even President Bush is working quickly to pull US troops out of Iraq because of the ever increasing security threat there. You certainly do deserve danger money. If I was you I would have a lot of questions and concerns to raise with your employer before agreeing to these flights!

quote from Daily Mail Sat 15th Nov

"Suicide bombers in Iraq are planning to attack targets in the heart of the British-controlled city of Basra, intelligence has warned.

Security has been stepped up dramatically, with roadblocks and vehicle searches increased, after the warning that bombers are believed to be in Iraq's second city already."


Hope I've not scared you but think you are very right to be concerned.

chic x

[pinni]

:confused:

What can I say, glad i am out!!!!!! Pinni

[flyhalf]

I should have guessed that this would appear here after yesterday's little e-mail spat. I thought enough linen had been washed in public yesterday?

In case it had escaped your notice, the contract to Basra is to carry armed forces personnel. If you get shot down then so do 100+ UK soldiers. I hardly think the MoD would be asking an unarmed civilian airline to fly there if it thought there was any risk of that happening - it is in their interest to avoid it as much as it is in yours.

I don't mind the sound of a three-day trip to Cyprus to do this flight. It's got to be better than sitting on your backside at home doing nothing or one or two other flights that I could name!

[Say again s l o w l y]

Flyhalf, are you serious! The MoD class squaddies as freight, I would certainly be asking for at least 1000% pay to take freight into any hot areas.

By the way, how are the anti missile defences on your a/c? Since all the RAF chaps on C130's aren't exactly keen to go there, why on earth is it acceptable to go there in an unprotected civvy machine?

[Trol E Doll]

By the looks of things, Sweety, none of the respondents so far have been helpful, nor are likely to have operated.

I've been 7 times over the last three months with my company. Like you I was a little apprehensive to start, but I had reassurance from people I trust within the company. I suppose thats what makes the difference, fo me anyway.

Anyway back to the charters. They were very straightforward, and a better lot of passengers than I am used to. We tech-stopped in Akrotiri with a very starightforward turnaround. On two of my trips I had the minimum rest in Cyprus, on the others I had a three day layover with the Cyprus which was very pleasant and much welcomed in the middle of winter.

The Basra turnarounds were about 3 hours, and you don't leave the aircraft.

I did feel for the young troops going out on duty, as it's a big unknown for them, so I did my best to make the trip enjoyable for them. My contribution I suppose.

There was no talk of "danger money".

On some of the days we were there I saw a number of other charter carriers.

Now if you want to talk dangerous, try BAKU nightstops , which I did earlier in the year when we couldn't go to Bahrein.

[jmc-man]

As a driver I've been there a couple of times recently, the missus a few more than me.

In this day and age I found it actually reassuring that there was someone watching your back in places like Basra. I had a colleague down in Mombasa ( heard no complaints about going there) on the day someone tried to take out the Tel Aviv flight with an anti-aircraft missile. And just how reassured were the passengers on September 11th about their safety?

I tell you what, Sweety, why not ask the troops on board if they are getting " danger money" for doing their job? I would suggest that these flights would be some of the safest you can do at the moment, in terms of security, with the might of two professional armed forces keeping you safe, as opposed to a team of poorly paid and inadequately trained airport security people.

[JB007]

Have to agree with jmc-man, the BSR operations have been incredibly successful....working with the RAF is great and we've had no trouble of any kind since the start, which was back in June. We've been going twice a week through AKT...

[GrantT]

I would be very unhappy to fly to Iraq, even President Bush is working quickly to pull US troops out of Iraq because of the ever increasing security threat there.

Do you even know what your talking about? The US will hand over power to the Iraqis next June, there will still be a US troop presence in the country after that time. Most of Iraq is relatively safe compared to Baghdad and the "sunni triangle" so i wouldn't relly worry sweety.

[Spitfire PRXIX]

Having flown into basrah 3 times in the past 3 weeks I have no problems flying there and i can say it is far safer then flying into any U.K or U.S airport. The tallest building for 25 miles is the control tower and with a 10 mile secure area around the airfield patrolled with coalition troops all equipped with NVG's (Night Vision goggles) and a sweep by the RAF before we land and departed i would say it is safer than most places at the moment. I for one have no problems with the place!!

Sweety do we know each other??????

[BASRAH BABE]

I am de ''BASRAH BABE'' and I rule!!

I love all aircrew both civil and military and allways go out of my way to make them feel special and welcome in my port.

Please keep me and my friends happy by bringing me milk, tea, coffee, minerals, newspapers, beers and anything else from home.

B B

[spaniel eyes]

I have also flown to BSR recently, and do share your concern. I have never had any problems, but still, did not expect to be flying to a war zone. There has been a recent security alert, at the airport, while a crew was there, although I don't know the details... The companies that are operating to BSR are hardly going to tell their staff it is unsafe to fly here, but at the end of the day it would be nice if, instead of jumping down our throats every time anyone mentions individual fears, we were given some support and kept updated of any incidents that occur that may affect operating crews.. I have experienced concern from friends and family about operating to Iraq, which is entirely justified, because I can't go back to them and tell them anyhthing other than "our company says it wouldn't send us there if it wasn't safe"
So sweety, I to am not entirely happy about it either, but feel that my company finds it irritating if crew keep harping on about it. :uhoh:

[flapsforty]

sweety, looks like you have totally mastered "The Art of PPRuNing".
Separate the stuff spouted by the less than helpful/knowledgeable from the genuine info supplied by colleagues who have real time experience and are wiling to share it.
Invaluable information that you wouldn't be able to obtain any other way.
The beauty of PPRuNing. :ok:

Let us know what is was like after you've done your first Basra?

[flapsforty]

Thought of this thread and the colleagues rostered by their companies to operate into Basra when I read this (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=109823) .

[chicfly1]

I think it's very sad that it will take an incident such as the missile hit in Baghdad this morning or another future incident to make people admit that it is very dangerous to fly to Iraq at the moment.
I hope that the commercial airlines come to their senses quickly before sending crews out there. It's all about making money, the welfare of personnel comes second. Glad I don't have to do any of these flights.:ooh:

[L8MED]

Have a little faith in your company security!!!! believe me they would not send you to a place where they are not 110 % happy with the operation, do you really think they will send their million pounds aircraft and its crew and more imprtantly its REPUTATION on the line...

Try working for a carrier that goes to Iran, Syria, Jordan. Baku, beirut, on a regular basis, we have complete faith in our system and as safe as they may be things can change at little notice and the company keeps us advised and if in doubt will pull the route if need be untill things have resolved..

And for the person that mentioned BAKU when bahrain was not a option, believe me this is one of our SAFER places so you were VERY SAFE there trust me!!!

[Say again s l o w l y]

I cannot belive people still think it is acceptable to fly into ANY war zone in a unprotected civvy a/c. If Basra is safe then why are the military still using combat procedures with the Hercs?
Iran, Syria etc. are not war zones, they may be slightly risky, but no where near going to Iraq in the current climate.

Whilst I haven't been to Basra, I do know quite a few C130 jockeys who are definately not happy when they go out there.

Have faith in the companies procedures! :confused: Bean counters know a lot about missile defence do they? Ask to have a look at most company emergency plans and see how many of the people mentioned are still with the company or in some cases even still alive. This is not a joke unfortunately. :oh:

[chicfly1]

"Have a little faith in your company security!!!! believe me they would not send you to a place where they are not 110 % happy with the operation, do you really think they will send their million pounds aircraft and its crew and more imprtantly its REPUTATION on the line..."


I bet the DHL guys had faith in their company.........................

[flapsforty]

L8MED, good to read that security of your company is such that it deserves your faith.

Me, I've been shot at, held hostage in the crew bus, seen Mumbay burn from the hotel's rooftop, had drunk & heavily armed soldiers board the AC and play at firing at us, seen fireworks explode all around the AC while we made a mad dash to get out of Jemen, got caught up in a spot of "let's just overthrow the president & kill all his guards", just to name a few of the highlights.
And if I made a true list, it'd be much longer!

All to destinations that had already been on the news but that the company security department had vouched for as absolutely no problem...... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

L8MED I guess it all depends on the quality of the company security department eh? ;)

[pinni]

Put it this way, the airline sweety works for do not have million pound aircraft!!?. All this company cares about is making money:mad:

They do not give a dam about crew,:( I should know I used to work for them. If I still did I would certainly refuse to do these flights at the mo:ugh:

[TightSlot]

I always think that the pity of these situations is that in many cases, the concerns of operating crew could be reduced if the airlines involved were to make even the most basic attempt at managing the issue. In my experience, you get rostered for a flight to a "dodgy" destination, and there is either no communication at all, or a photocopy self brief sheet which says, in essence, "Don't worry, trust us" - most Crew have spent their professional working lives being taught by their employer why they should trust them as far as they can throw them.

I remember turning up for a hot-spot flight and meeting 2 of my crew who were on the point of refusing to operate: TV and radio news reports the night before and on the drive-in were relaying terrible stories & images. Those Cabin Crew with partners and children had been asked difficult to answer questions and inevitably, this had all combined to erode confidence. Eventually, they decided to operate, after some reassurance from the Flight Crew: My point is that this was all entirely avoidable. Intelligent and pro-active management would have identified and managed the problem in advance, but then how often do you see the words "pro-active", "intelligent" and "management" used in the same sentence? (except by managers themselves)

My view now? Those who take the decisions as to where it is safe to fly are not those whose remains will be spread over some third-world hell-hole slum suburb when it all goes wrong: I take all the advice available, read up and , only then if I am satisfied will I operate: If not, then I go sick. I don't feel guily about this, as in my view, if the airline had correctly communicated and managed the issue in the first place, the information available to me would have meant that my decision would have been to operate.

[flyblue]

Ohhh sweety ! :ooh:
After following all your struggle to be re-employed last year, that comes as a big new!
Well we wish you all the best for the future!

[flyblue]

Following a Mod meeting we decided that for security reasons the names of any airline flying to Basra should not be named. Thanks to you all for your cooperation.

[flyblue]

sweety,

I remembered more your morale then than the difficulty of getting another job. Anyway if I misunderstood, my fault only!

good luck for your next wings:ok:

[Fly_JEMS]

Sweety

Shame you have decided to leave your company but I am sure you will get back into life in the air.. But I am sure that other charter airlines fly to far worse places and probably end up going to Basra..

Good Luck..I am sure you will be missed
:ok:

[2daddies]

Well done on a tough decision, Sweety. At the end of the day NO job or amount of money is worth your life. And believe me, Iraq is nowhere near as safe as some say.

It's funny. Resigning over an issue such as operating as a civilian into a warzone seems like such a simple decision to make but when it comes time to lay your job on the line it can be a tough call.

I chose to resign this week if my company resumed services into Iraq (suspended after DHL) but after discussions with management it was agreed to make operating there strictly voluntary (and I didn't volunteer!). So I stayed. But it is bloody hard to leave any job in such a stuffed industry.

Best of luck for the future. :ok:

[opsjockey]

Im off to Kabul tomorrow! Not quite the same as Basrah (Although we do have a few flights there this week!) Rather looking forward to it! A fact finding mission to broaden ones horizons!!

[sweety]

2daddies - you are working for a good company! This is the way to do it - seeking volunteers, surely they will find some for those flights (there are enough crazy people out there! (joke!!)..)

Take care all of you - crazy and not so crazy! :cool:

[spaniel eyes]

I am pleased to see such a response regarding the safety of crew, sweety, i think you will have a better christmas this year, unfortunately, I will be visiting Basra around the festive season.... I am still unhappy and have received no support from my company, and am dreading going...(not only the cargo incident, but also the charter incident is enough to raise eyebrows)
I can't afford to resign, although I am looking for another job, I feel that the company has put me in a position where I have been backed into a corner and its "do it, or leave".
Why do all airlines make you feel so easily replaceable?
:confused:

[flyblue]

Let's be very careful! If it's only "rumors", it might be just another urban legend! I believe the press wouldn't have missed one more occasion to waste ink! Has someone witnessed something firsthand?

And some food for thought: in countries where a CC licence exist, it's not that easy to replace them!

[spaniel eyes]

I have it on good authority there was an incident where there was a security alert in Basra, as the A/C landed. The crew, on opening the doors were greeted by special forces, and were told to stay away from the doors and to sit on the floor as there was a security issue at the airport. I believe some explosives were found on the airport perimeter.
The crew were understandably shaken and upset.
Before anyone says it, the military were doing their job to ensure the safety of the a/c and crew, I am not doubting that these are proffessionals, but at the same time, surely civil airlines should not be subjecting their crew to such distressing situations.... when we do not undergo military training?:sad:

[starbag]

Well, to shed some light on the flying to Basrah, I've just got back from doing my first trip, and am busy proudly showing off my Basrah stamp in my passport. No insurance company is ever going to let an airline fly in unless they are 100% happy with the arrangements, insurance companies are the experts in judging risks. Having chatted to the RAF team at Basrah airport, there has never been any incident with a civilian aircraft flying into Basrah, the stories about bullet holes are just stories I'm afraid. Yes, it's different landing with all the lights out, but to be honest, it was all a bit of an anticlimax. Basrah airport is efficient, the RAF crews are really friendly, and grateful for any spare papers, milk, chocolate etc and the passengers are about as well behaved as it's possible to get. The flights to Akrotiri are short and trouble free. Regards the DHL freighter, remember that was Baghdad bound. Comparing Baghdad and Basra is like comparing Belfast at the height of the troubles to Cork, same bit of land, but a world apart. The soldiers we were chatting to were saying that the area is pretty trouble free.

It's a pity that some of the people who have made the most noise about this topic hadn't actually spoken to people within their company who had actually done the flight and could answer their questions. It's certainly one of the easiest three day trips I've ever done.

[Moose 9]

Have to agree,Baghdad and Basra although still both in Iraq are worlds apart,we operate to both of these airports and much prefer flying to Basra than Baghdad,never seen any hint of trouble in Basra,Baghdad always seems to be a hive of activity and tension,almost get the feeling that something is going to happen any second.As for the troops in Basra,wow what great people and always very friendly,even under the circumstances,they are wonderful representatives for their country!!

[TightSlot]

It's certainly one of the easiest three day trips I've ever done.
They're all easy, until they aren't, and then suddenly they're not fun at all! Maybe worth bearing in mind?

Haven't been, so can't comment otherwise.;)