Life Vest / Survival Gear Discussion...

[RDRickster]

Looks like I'll be spending more time over bay areas and intercoastal waterways. So, I'm putting together a life vest / survival gear package (just in case). Now, I won't be doing any long distance flights like you GOM and North Sea pilots; nevertheless, I'm trying to put something together for the long term that works. Below, I've listed the items that I've recently purchased (so far). What I'd really like to know is what you folks use for your lifevest and on-person suvival gear?

By the way, I have NO affiliation with any of these companies. Names have been removed...

http://www.concordeaerosales.com/images/floatation/specialop_small.jpg
HV-35C Spec-Ops Vest
(Improved Version of Helicopter Crew Vest)

http://www.concordeaerosales.com/images/breathing/heed_small1.jpg
HEED III
(Helicopter Emergency Egress Device w/ Refill Adapter. This particular model fits in the holster of the Crew Vest shown above).

http://www.concordeaerosales.com/images/signaling/gypsi_small.jpg
GyPSI EPIRB
(406 Mhz Satellite, 121.5 Homing, Data Cables to Upload GPS Data)

http://www.concordeaerosales.com/images/signaling/fireflyw_small.jpg
Firefly 2

http://www.concordeaerosales.com/images/signaling/lasermagnum_small.jpg
Rescue Laser Flare Magnum
(Provides a beacon that is easily seen at night or in limited visibility).

http://www.concordeaerosales.com/images/signaling/seerescue_small.jpg
See-Rescue Streamer
(I'm getting the Mil-Spec version w/ Retro Reflective Material. These small units come in many sizes, but I'm getting the 6" x 40' version. They float on water and stay unrolled.)

I'll probably use Lithium batteries instead of alkaline, and I have yet to put together a small waterproof survival kit (mirror, whistle, knife, fire, etc). On the vest itself, I plan to put a seat belt cutter attached with a retractable cord (just in case). I'm still researching small flashlights and pyrotechnics. In fact, I'm not so sure pyrotechnics are a good idea in the vest - but I've been told otherwise.

Comments? Any advice from the SAR side of PPRuNe?

[Lowlevldevl]

Hi RDR,
That looks pretty comprehensive!
A package like that would sure inspire some confidence on some of those long overwater flights. Could you give us some idea of the total cost?
The only other thing I'd like to see included is 'Shark Repellant".
;)
Cheers.

[Arctic Tern]

RD
Have you had a look at Doug Ritter's 'Equipped to Survive' site? Loads of good info on survival equipment there and some good evaluations of new kit. Follow this link and if you contact him tell him the www.SARworld.com team sent you.
http://www.equipped.com/home.htm
:ok:

[LMCCOY]

Is your aircaft going to have a raft and survival gear for passengers aboard? Are you going to have a float equiped aircraft? What are you going to carry in your vest that may be redundant? The equipment you carry may be in the aircraft survival kit. You might want some redundant items, maybe not.

[Gomer Pylot]

Sometimes simpler is better. You might be surprised how useful a garbage bag can be. Get a big yellow one, so it can be seen, & it can be used for signaling, flotation, warmth, shark protection, holds more vomit than your pax can put out, and the possibilities are endless. A garbage bag, a mirror, and maybe an LED flashlight, and you probably have enough to survive in the bay until you're found. The rest is nice if you already have it, but think about how you'll carry it - it gets hot in the summer, and it's always heavy, and hot and heavy can translate into "won't wear it", & what you don't have strapped to your body likely won't be with you in the water.

[RDRickster]

Lowlevldevl,

Hopefully this equipment will increase chances of survival in a ditching situation; however, safety equipment is meaningless if you don't actually train for that emergency. For example, I've never used a HEEDs device before. So, I got the refill adapter so I can practice taking it out the vest and using it under water.

To answer your question, here is the MSRP cost (in U.S. dollars):

HV-35 SPEC-OPS with HEEDS Holster pocket - $475
GYPSI 406 PLB With GPS Interface - $589
HEED III with Dial Gauge - $327
Scuba Refill Adapter for HEED III - $78
Firefly 2 - $99
Rescue Laser Flare Magnum - $108
See-Rescue Streamer (Mil-Spec Version) - $96

Total - $1772 (ouch!)

It's definately expensive! Still, better safe than sorry. I'm still putting the "survival" portion of the package down. My goal is to get everything into this vest without making it too bulky or heavy. I haven't decided on flashlights, pyrotechnics, or other items. However, I've added the following as of today:

http://www.malcolmmurray.com/graphics/mirror3.jpg
3" x 5" Signal Mirror - $23
(This unit is plastic and floats. More importantly, it rates 70-80% of the reflection that a glass mirror has. The U.S. Air Force standard issue unit is less than 40 percent!)

http://www.kriana.com/images/p-ir.jpg
Extreme Krill Lamp - $25
(Provides up to 50 hours of illumination compared to a 12-hour cylume stick - which may have already expired. It uses batteries, so you can turn it on and off to save your batteries for nightime use - unlike chemical sticks. It's water proof up to 150 feet.)

Funny about the Shark Repellant! There's no such thing as a fool-proof shark repellant, and I really don't have the room for those items. Now, if I was near Panama or some other infested place, I'd reconsider. I guess this is one of those choices you have to make. (Sound of me knocking on wood here).

Arctic Tern,

Yup, I've been to the Equipped To Survive (http://www.equipped.org) website. I just sent Doug Ritter an e-mail (& website contribution), so I'll be sure to pass your message along when he replies. Great information, but each situation is slightly different.

LMCCOY,

The aircraft has floats, but no life raft. We don't really go out that far, and the vest I'm putting together is probably over-kill for my application. However, I figured if I was going to put something together that I should do it right and be done with it. That way when one of you kind soles offer's a seat on one of your sorties, I'll be prepared! :ok:

Gomer Pylot,

Good advice about the garbage bag. Ya, I'm trying to keep things simple and light. The picture doesn't show it, but there is actually quite a bit of room in the vest. That said, I want to make certain that I don't fill it up completely.

What recommendations do you folks have about Flashlights, Folding Knives, and Pyrotechnics (if any)?

[Squirrel]

You'll never have time to grab anything unless you're wearing it, so the vest is the way to go.

LED flashlight that is waterproof, lots to choose from, last forever.

Knife must be instantly accessible and in the same spot always - ie: on your flightsuit or belt - I like the spyderco folding half serrated with blunt nose to cut seat belts - their belt clip is the best I have seen, tight, easy to replace and doesn't come loose.

Sky Blazer twin star flare 4" long, hand launch - a couple

I keep the flare, matches, candle, some first aid, survival blanket in a Coghlan brand 4 1/2 x 5" waterproof pouch, 1 1/4" thick, that fits in a pocket (or vest), which I keep with me ALL the time so I will always have it wherever I end up. It's cheap insurance.

You didn't mention it, but the life vest cannot be self-inflating - most heli ones are not - if they are and inflate prior to exiting, you're stuck.

If you wear a helmet, get an extension to the cord as the 90 degree pull on the helmet cord at the plug in point, when you are getting out underwater will keep your helmet & head & body from exiting. The short extension will keep the helmet cord and extension in a straight line and will unplug easily.

Best insurance is HUET training, underwater egress - got to take that over some of the other equipment - if you can't get out, you can't use the goodies.

Good luck

[Hedski]

I'm in a fix to find a comfortable life-jacket. Anybody know where I can find one similar to MOD issue or French Aeronavale as I'm told they're not bad at all.
I seem to fly over water more than land these days! :cool:

[heedm]

One other thing to consider. You're equipped to be found from when you crash until 50 hours (2 days) later. If the water temperature is 10C (50F) then you won't be alive after 50 hours. If this is so, then maybe some of the money should be spent on a survival suit. Mustang is a good place to start, I'm sure there are many others.

[Squirrel]

Mustang Survival also makes the "Air Force" inflatable vest - very comfortable Model MD3012.

Mustang has a wide variety of survival suits, including a Nomex suit. They have to have sufficient bouyancy to keep a person afloat but not too much to prevent egress - there is a formula they use for that. The standard floater suits are no good, just like an inflated life jacket. All the survival suits get very warm.

[RDRickster]

Unless there are any objections, I'll keep this thread going with updates from time to time concerning the evolution of the life vest above. After more research and comparisons, Doug Ritter's article is spot on in several ways. Specifically, I'm going to follow the same recommendations and attach the following LED to the zipper with a gear keeper (shown below)...

http://www.pocketlights.com/images/cmg_04_blk.jpg
Keychain Light - $10
(Waterproof LED light w/ changeable batteries).

http://www.gearkeeper.com/photos/Water_Whistle_2.JPG
Gear Keeper - $25
(Attaches to vest and holds items, like LED light, on retractable cable. I'm also going to put one of these on the right hand side to keep a Seat Belt Cutter in easy reach).

http://www.surefire.com/surefire/content/e2e_sg_full.jpg
E2E Flashlight - $95
(6 volt lithium system - very bright).

Now, I'm down to deciding on a folding knife, pyrotechniques, and mini-survival kit. I'll look into the thermal suit. Thanks for the feedback... keep those recommendations coming!

[[email protected]]

RD, definitely do as squirrel suggests and get on a HUET course -if possible get them to allow you to use your HEED bottle as well. I have just completed my 2 yearly Huet/STASS (same as HEEDS) training in the dunker and it is still valuable even after doing it for the last 20 years. As someone pointed out (squirrel again I think) if you can't get out then all the survival kit in the world is useless. Being underwater in a helicopter is very disorientating and it is easy to get stuck - the latest statistics suggest that 65% of people die needlessly in a helicopter ditching, it's not the impact that kills them just lack of training!
As for the rest of your kit - very nice indeed, if only the military thought the way you do!

[High Nr]

Yes a good selection of gear will certainly increase your survival chances once in the water.

For those that have undertaken HUET training will testify that if its not on you once you hit the water, then it won't be going with you.
Yes I agree it may be "heavy", but you don't have to run around the track with it, usually just sitting in a control seat....or if in the water its normally close to neutral bouyancy.

My last HUET refresher in Aberdeen, involved HABD training, which in my view was extremely worthwhile. Despite having an extensive diving background, this experience was enlightning, particularly with no face mask to stop those bubbles going straight up your nostrils....great fun not!!!

[RDRickster]

It's funny that you mentioned the GPS/PLB scenario... I was just thinking about that. I have a Garmin 196 Aviation GPS that I usually take with me, and can upload information to the PLB from that. However, I also came to the conclusion that it is unlikely that I would have time to disconnet the GPS from the top of the instrument panel and take it with me if I had to ditch. So, I'm thinking about putting a small, waterproof GPS in my vest so that I can upload coordinate information to the PLB. I'm still thinking about that one.

Concerning the choice of PLB, I selected the GyPSI because of submersion ratings, power output, and battery life. I could have purchased a PLB with an integrated GPS (like Fastfind Plus), but I like to keep systems separate in the event of a single component failure. Besides, the GyPSI is a pretty rugged PLB and happens to fit perfectly in the left pocket of my vest (behind HEEDs III).

I've had a few people tell me that I should also carry a radio, but I think that is over doing it. I've got a hand-held radio/VOR, but it's too big and too heavy to put in my vest. That said, I wish they made a small hand-held GPS with integrated radio. Garmin has two models, but they use the family radio fequencies only (useless for aviation needs).

So, I'm considering adding a small, hand-held, submersible GPS to the vest to upload coordinate information to the PLB. It would be nice to see where the currents are drifting me and I'd have an idea of my own location over time. That may or may not be useful... it may be useless. I haven't really decided.

Please, toss in your 2 cents (anyone)...

[Nigel Osborn]

Don't forget your seasick pills! I found Kwells to be the best!:O

[RDRickster]

Well, after looking at several Seat Belt Cutters, I decided they probably couldn't adequately handle aircraft webbing. Specifically, the $5 pieces of plastic I found had a small razor embedded in them that would probably work great for thin automobile seat belts, but not aircraft seat belts. So, I decided to take the advice posted earlier about folding knives and went with the following:

http://www.spyderco.com/assets/product_images/medium/C45OR.jpg
Rescue Junior Folding Knife - $49

To answer some of the recent PM's concerning "where" I purchased the components listed above, please see the following websites:

Concorde Aerosales (http://www.concordeaerosales.com/products.html)
Malcolm Murray (http://www.malcolmmurray.com/rescue/index.html)
Kriana (http://www.kriana.com/individual/index.html)
Pocket Lights (http://www.pocketlights.com/keychainlights.asp)
Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=sporting-index&field-keywords=gear%20keeper&dispatch=search&results-process=bin&bq=1&bc=none/ref=xs_ap_l_xgl200/102-2354711-7873701)
Sure Fire (http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main/co_disp/displ/prrfnbr/888/sesent/00)
Spyderco (http://www.spyderco.com)

By the way, Malcolm Murray is an older gentleman and kind of a technology neophite (doesn't take credit cards). However, he was very pleasant to talk to and will offer more advice on signal mirrors than you probably wanted to know! You should shop around, I bought the Spyderco from Amazon because they had a pretty good sale.

Concerning GPS compatibility with PLB's (using the NMEA 0183 optical standard), I couldn't find a list of Garmin Submersible GPS units that reflect their most recent product line. The E-trex is compatible (and cheap), but it isn't submersible - only waterproof. I just sent a request to Garmin for an updated list, and will post their reply when I get one. For compatibility, you must have an NMEA 0183 output ready GPS unit and a GPS interface cable. The NMEA 0183 optical interface connector supplied with your PLB must be connected to the GPS interface cable. Some GPS units require you to program "header" or "message" information to meet the proper format (codes).


(edited to update URL)

[Squirrel]

That's the right knife - you will like it - keep it handy.

[Lowlevldevl]

RDRickster'
If you're THAT paranoid about surviving a ditching, maybe you should get a job in the desert.
All those gadgets are great, BUT, get out, stay afloat, set off your beacon. I don't really mean any offence but I think you're making it more complex than it needs to be. I'll bet you a million bucks now that you never get to be in a situation where being able to upload GPS data to a PLB is going to make the difference to saving your life.
The vest is essential, the strobe is essential, the PLB is essential, ........the rest is just toys.
Less is more. If you were spending the majority of your flying way out over the North Sea, then I would understand but that isn't how it reads. Keep it simple.
You DID ask!

[Thomas coupling]

Agree with Lowleveldevil. You could always start a chandlers when you retire with all that, though :D :D

[RDRickster]

Lowlevldevl, you are right (to a point)...

Yes, I would agree with you that this equipment is more than what is required for the intended application... today. Nevertheless, I'm planning on a worst-case scenario so that I will already be prepared for other missions... tomorrow.

I wouldn't say that I'm "paranoid" about ditching or flying at all. I would say that I have a healthy dose of respect for the aircraft and the environment in which I fly (and may fly in the future). Hopefully, I've demonstrated the proper attention to detail... not paranoia. With development, that will make me a better pilot, no?

Finally, there are ONLY two pockets on this vest (and a HEEDs holster). The equipment I've listed is very light weight and small in size. So, we aren't really talking about a lot of gear here... it just looks that way on the forum. Your point about over-thinking the situation is well-received, but anything worth doing is worth doing correctly. Which is why I'm taking the time to research options and discuss it with the professionals on this forum. I've gotten several e-mails from PPRuNer's about the configuration of the vest and other recommendations, so it seems to be a topic of interest.

For Those Who Are Interested,

I'm leaning more against pyrotechnics at all. To be effective, you have to carry a lot of flares. Pocket rockets are okay, but they are not submersible and they have limited range and burn time. The XLT Marine rockets seem to be the best choice for a vest, but they take up valuable space and you can't carry that many. I think with the rescue streamer, lights, and PLB that I will be in good shape. I'd rather use the rest of the available space for survival gear (water, fire, etc) and maybe a small GPS.

So, I'm temporarily going to "table" pyrotechniques until I get the more important gear in place. Concerning training, I've been looking at some HUET courses. They aren't that expensive for an entire day of training - less than $200 or so. However, there doesn't seem to be anything close to my location. Any recommendations for HUET training in the Mid-Atlantic region?

[B Sousa]

All good posts above as to equipment. I dont think you ever have enough if your stuck in the Big bathtub. Some things I was taught in selection that make sense, is that you may only have whats hanging on your body when the Aircraft meets the water. Raft and all that other stuff may go down to the bottom.....I always hang a bare minimum around my neck while flying (besides the vest) That is Mirror, Serrated Knife(Spyderco) and strobe. All the other stuff is great, but if your in a bind those are best for the first 24 hours. After that your in major trouble anyway....
Personally I would love to have a company supply me with a huge raft, all the other goodies such as Sat Phone w/GPS, Encoded EPRIB etc.... So I can yell come get my ass. In the Helicopter world I have worked most Companies dont have enough in the bank for the next spare parts.....
Plan your flight like your goin swimin and it will help. Good Luck out there.

Also forgot to mention. A couple bottles of drinkable water would be nice....

[heedm]

RDRickster,

Survival Systems in Halifax, NS has an excellent HUET/EBS course. Really good equipment, experienced instructors. Also, Halifax is a good road trip.

[RDRickster]

I spoke with the folks at Garmin, and the following is an update concerning GPS compatibility with PLB's (using the NMEA 0183 optical standard). Also, charlie s charlie was correct about their waterproof standards. ALL Garmin products meet the same standards (including the eTrex).

Most Garmin GPS units are waterproof in accordance with IEC 529 IPX7. IEC 529 is a European system of test specification standards for classifying the degrees of protection provided by the enclosures of electrical equipment. An IPX7 designation means the GPS case can withstand accidental immersion in one meter of water for up to 30 minutes. An IPX8 designation is for continuous underwater use.

That said, the technical representative from Garmin indicated that if there is an active current, running water, or if you are moving a GPS through water yourself (i.e. swimming across lake or stream), then water WILL get into the GPS and damage the unit in short order. So precautions must be taken.

Concerning the ability to upload coordinate information to a PLB (or other electronic device), ALL of their current products follow the NMEA 0183 optical standard. The older products that are discontinued do not have this feature; however, their newer products (including the eTrex) are capable of this data exchange.

If I decide to put a small GPS unit in the vest, I'll probably put it in the following waterproof bag...

http://a1072.g.akamai.net/f/1072/2062/1d/gallery.rei.com/regularimages/668387.jpg

It's called the "Voyageur Squawk-About Two-Way Radio Case" and was designed for cell phones. The neat thing about this submersible bag is that it has a cable connector built in, which keeps this a closed system. Therefore, all I would need to do is solder a male plug onto the PLB optical cable (the ends of the wires are bare and requires soldering anyway) and connect that to the plug on the exterior of this case. For the inside of the case, I would solder a Garmin data cable (shown below) with the appropriate connector.

http://www.garmin.com/graphics/etrexPIC.jpghttp://shop.garmin.com/graphics/010-10205-00.jpg

It'll be a while before I receive all the basic components. Then, I can make a few more decisions on the final configuration of the vest (including wether or not to add GPS or pyrotechniques). When I finished, I'll upload some pictures of the final product.

[MightyGem]

A graph of likely survival times in the water. Temperatures are in degrees Celsius.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_avsafety/documents/downloadable/dft_avsafety_501796.jpg

[charlie s charlie]

Any updates? It was shaping up to be a good bit of kit

Charlie

[Gomer Pylot]

That Garmin cable is way too big and bulky. You can get a better cable, or just a connector, from Pfranc. (http://www.pfranc.com)

I bought the connectors, and made my own cable for use with my Garmin in my car, connected to my Palm running Mapopolis mapping software. With that I can get voice directions to any address. There are also European maps.

For use in this situation, a very thin cable with 3 conductors a couple of inches long is all you need, and is easily made. I would be worried about the connection on the outside of the bag, though - how do you keep water out of that? A little salt water, and your data is shorted out.

[SASless]

Rickster...if you are flying over the Chesapeake....skip all that gear....get a flower shirt, carry an extra set of flip flops, pack your Visa card....and stick a Sailing mag in your hip pocket.....for added insurance...get an inflatable girl friend and hide a pint bottle of Tequila somewhere.....then you got it made in the shade.;)

[RDRickster]

I haven't been flying over water much lately (except once last week), so nothing new added. Funny, Sasless... funny! Nevertheless, I'll take flying over the yatchs coming out of Annapolis anytime... those scantily clad young'ins like to get the maximum sun exposure while on deck over the open water, if you know what I mean. Ooops, they didn't expect a helicopter to pop overhead! :O

[Phoinix]

Hey guys


I'm trying to get more information on best life vests on the market. I need the info as i am trying to get our unit equiped with the best helicopter vest there is for our unit's future operations.

The only criteria about this vest is practical, safe, not in the way during work (border patrol, hoist work) and a life span of 3 years or more. I'm fresh in this kind of equipment, so i hope i didn't make a fool of myself with this "3 years of usage".

I heard that bristow helicopters use one of the best. Which one would that be? What type? Googling didn't help, so i am here, again, turning to you good men and women of helicopter world.

I have already tryed contacting Switlik, but I got no answer in more than a month.


Thank you all!

[EN48]

See Equipped to Survive for reviews of aviation life vests. (www.equipped.org (http://www.equipped.org)) I use the Switlik helicopter crew vest.

[pitchlink]

Phoinix, Check your PMs

[BigMike]

This is an Australian made vest I wore last year on the fires (life vests are mandatory for Helitak pilots dropping water)

Very comfortable to wear and plenty of pockets for food, chocolate, flares, chocolate, knife, chocolate, etc... ;)

http://www.safetymarineaust.com.au/saver.html

http://www.safetymarineaust.com.au/pic/image1484.gif

[pitchlink]

phoinix,

Check your PMs. Thanks

[mortennb]

What I am looking for..

Have to say though.. (www.equipped.org (http://www.equipped.org/))
looks really messy.. Hard to find what you are looking for..

[SASless]

One thing Bristow always did right.....was to place a Rescue Sarbe radio in each Flight Crew Vest....and install homers on each helicopter. At least you felt like some one had a means to come find you while you were a bobbin' in the oggin!

Now days....I would pack a Strobe Light, Day/Night Flare, an Epirb, and a handheld VHF with GPS and DSC capability along with a very good signal mirror. Add in a decent knife, LED Flashlight, and a crossword and I would call it good.

For Offshore....

STANDARD HORIZON HX850S Floating 6W Handheld VHF with integral GPS


The older I get....the more I am in touch with my mortality and appreciate hi-tech devices for getting found prior to my sell by date.

[MikeNYC]

Bumping an 11 year old thread here, apologies. Will be doing HUET in the next few months with my team, and we are going to pick up constant wear vests shortly. This thread has great info, but has much changed in the past decade? Considering the options from Switlik and Mustang.

[aa777888]

I have an older Switlik. If I was buying a new one I'd still probably go with Switlik, probably one of their Molle capable models. It's all about the pockets, you know ;)

[ExGrunt]

Bumping an 11 year old thread here, apologies. Will be doing HUET in the next few months with my team, and we are going to pick up constant wear vests shortly. This thread has great info, but has much changed in the past decade? Considering the options from Switlik and Mustang.
One change I suppose is the availability of relatively cheap rugged satphones like the Iridium extreme.

Something to consider carrying these days.

EG

[MikeNYC]

One change I suppose is the availability of relatively cheap rugged satphones like the Iridium extreme.

Something to consider carrying these days.

EG
yes, in remote areas the Garmin InReach is always with me.

[RVDT]

Mustang gear - pay attention to the approval / certification in your particular country.

And on another point don't wear a "Float Coat" in an aircraft. Ask the Canadians.

[Self loading bear]

Perhaps the change from re breather to CA-EBS / STASS?
Discussef in thread (https://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/524215-review-into-north-sea-offshore-helicopter-operations-announced-caa.html)

[malabo]

Depends on the mission: how far out, water temp, kind of helicopter, mission. I wear a light, comfortable, horse-collar inflatable these days, offshore we were burdened with every idiotic gewgaw pressed on us by corporate-climbing safety managers. I trained HUEBA, but didn’t fly the water temps or mission profile to justify carrying it.