NOW Aircraft...anyone know where they are?

[The Southend King]

I was up at my namesake airport today, thought I might get a sneaky preview of the NOW 737's. ( Camera in hand !)

Unfortunately, they were not be seen. 1 Astraeus aircraft in for camera fitting, 1 Air MAlta 737 after major check, 1 ex Astraeus aircraft (G-BZZA) and a american BBJ.

I thought from an earlier thread that they were in SEN being painted. Have they moved on?

[FLYMATE]

Yes, one has been painted and gone back to STN painted white until it is released to NOW to use.

[Caslance]

Whereabouts are they parked at Stansted, FLYMATE?

I'll be down that way soon and I wouldn't mind a piccy myself.

[SPFlyer]

anybody who wants 'ZA', you are more than welcome.....

.....i bid you good luck.:ok:

[25minutes]

FLYMATE where do you get all this information regarding dialogue between the leasing co and EZY regarding the condition of these aircraft? or do you just spout what your new "employers" are telling you, do you realise how long these frames were on the road before EZY inherited them?

[The Southend King]

Thanks Flymate, although that doesn't make sense. I have a mate in the ATC LASHAM hangar in SEN ( Used to be heavylift) who I asked about the NOW aircraft. He said they were expecting them soon. Which would infer he hadn't seen them yet.

Surprised no-one photographed them leaving , or arriving in STN.

Any chance anyone in STN can check their whereabouts and post some piccies.

[CPT4C]

Or is FLYMATE telling porkies again?

[saltrock surfer]

Think the first one has been and gone through the paint shop and is back at Stansted in plain white. Second NOW aircraft is still in the hangar with the previous operator trying to get it into shape to hand back to the leasing Company.

[Nice Touch]

CAPT4C and 25min don't start, just leave it.

If anyone at NOW gets the justified arse with you, or your silly mates, the thread will get closed with some negative halfwit getting the last word.

Keep it fair-please.

Is that enough?

[Dirty Harry]

Heard from a friend they are at STN, one in white the other in Go colours. Both aeroplanes have been through checks before returning to the lease co. Same friend tells me that NOW are the new customer.

[The Southend King]

Thanks DH, solves the mystery. Is there a website with an aircraft in NOW colours anywhere? Just wondering what they're going to look like. I presume if they are painting them white that they'll use decals......seems to be all the rage these days.

[Frankfurt_Cowboy]

They'll be easier for the lease co. to remove I suppose.

[Ttree Ttrimmer]

I think you'll find that the white and GO colour schemes go some way to confirming Flymate's post about troubles with previous customer. It is usual that an aircraft on lease is returned to the leasing company in white unless otherwise agreed. So not only did easy not do this (the white one has already been painted white since it's return), they did it late and with major maintenance outstanding. Missed slots in the paint shop and more work than expected and a delay in start up ensues.

A shame, but to be expected from easy or was this the mis-management for which they are becoming famous showing itself in the public domain?

NOW will be in the air and it will treat it's customers and employees in a manner which they deserve. I, for one, can't wait!

[skeptik]

Located at Southend Nov 5th..

http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=453706&WxsIERv=Qm9laW5nIDczNy0zUTg%3D&WdsYXMg=VW50aXRsZWQgKE9hc2lzIExlYXNpbmcp&QtODMg=U291dGhlbmQgLSBSb2NoZm9yZCAoU0VOIC8gRUdNQyk%3D&ERDLTkt=VUsgLSBFbmdsYW5k&ktODMp=Tm92ZW1iZXIgNSwgMjAwMw%3D%3D&BP=1&WNEb25u=VFogQXZpYXRpb24%3D&xsIERvdWdsY=Ry1JR09G&MgTUQtODMgKE=Rmlyc3QgcGljdHVyZSBpbiBoZXIgc2hpbnkgbmV3IGFsbC1 3aGl0ZSBwYWludCBzY2hlbWUuIEFmdGVyIGEgZml2ZS15ZWFyIGNhcmVlciB 3aXRoIEdvIEZseSBhcyAiZ28gbm93IC8gYWxsIGdvIiwgaGVyIHByZXR0eSB jb2xvdXJzIGhhdmUgZmluYWxseSBkaXNhcHBlYXJlZC4gU2hlIGlzIGJlaW5 nIHJldHVybmVkIHRvIGhlciBVbml0ZWQgQXJhYiBFbWlyYXRlcyBsZWFzaW5 nIGNvbXBhbnksIGFuZCBpcyBjdXJyZW50bHkgbGlzdGVkIG9uIHRoZWlyIHd lYnNpdGUgZm9yIHNhbGUvbGVhc2Uu&YXMgTUQtODMgKERD=MTcx&NEb25uZWxs=MjAwMy0xMS0wOA%3D%3D&static=yes

[Frankfurt_Cowboy]

Well that proves it then!!!! A white 737!!

[FLYMATE]

Well, the picture was taken 05 Nov, so I think they are a little bit further along with the paint job into NOW colours...

[Caslance]

But on the 12th Flymate told us that the 737 was painted white at Southend and then parked at Stansted!:confused:

Why do that? I would have thought it would make more sense to apply the NOW scheme in the paint-shop at Southend.

Does NOW even have a colour scheme, or is it perhaps all-white with white titles?;)

[bacardi walla]

Part of the leasing deal is to have the a/c painted white. It was then returned to STN for the remaining work to be completed. NOW's colour scheme is all over white with large NOW across the forward fuselage and a ! on the tail, letter colouring is green - allegedly :mad:

[Whippersnapper]

Bacardi is thinking of one of the schemes considered, but not the one finally chosen. The white-over is the return condition requirement for EZY. It will make NOW's respray a little easier, but the scheme will be revealed with the rest of the company's public launch soon. I understand that we'll be recieving the first ac VERY soon.

[jmc-man]

Well, that clears that up then. It all sounds very "together", doesn't it.

[LTNman]

Just wonder how much debt this company has acquired by still being non operational after all this time, as there are wages and bills to pay and so far income is nil. The airline must be in great danger with all this debt sitting over it particularly as a first operating profit must be a few years away. The question is can they last that long before someone gets cold feet?

[Whippersnapper]

Oh dear, here we go again.

JMC-man would appear to feel threatened by NOW, suggesting he may be in a similar sector to us. He also always appears to get the last word (and most acidic) before a thread is closed, but not removed. Other people's comments may be edited by mods, but not JMC-man's. We know of a certain 737 management pilot who is a mod on this site... see where I'm going with this?

The simple point is that we have suffered a delay caused by EZY's late and poor ac return. Original speculation was that this may have been an attempt at commercial sabotage, but incompetence is more likely. This is playing into NOW's hands though, as EZY are having to spend a ot more on tha ac to return them, and are paying compensation for the hold up. Furthermore, NOW has delayed its'schedule launch to a time where sales pick up, with reduced time pressure to complete training and advertising.

I, and the other first batch pilots, have seen the full commercial website, including the booking system and routes. It's all there, ready to go. The first ac will be ready imminently, with the second not too long away.

Ezy have just rented several rooms on the same floor in Halcyon House. I'm sure they are listening and watching closely. If EZY appear concerned about NOW, then how can we lack credibility?

Answers on a postcard to JMC-man.

[kriskross]

Interesting that the same guy responsible for the flying side of the hand back is also likely to be the same guy responsible for the flying side of the acceptance. So the highest standards are likely to be expected from EZY.

[Tenminutes]

so when will seats actually go on sale then ????

[PPRuNe Towers]

I do indeed see where you're going with your logic Whippersnapper and I'm a little puzzled.

As far as I know I've been the person deleting or editing posts on the subject of Now. I don't work for any airline and if you scroll back in this saga you'll find a post by me extolling one aspect of the setup in, unnaturally for me, positive terms.

The posts I've worked on this and other threads were repeated gushing advertorials from individuals in the UK and Spain. When barred they reregistered to post them again repeatedly. I think you'll understand that this is something we'd far rather the founders of the company paid for - just like your wages. I even suggested some simple and very effective copy:E :E

Additionally, I think you'll find said 737 management pilot fully supported my little notion in writing. How the hell is that knocking a startup? In a time when zero quality of life is the foremost subject for shorthaul pilots it's the most effective free ad you've ever had!!

Incidently I barred 3 registrations from easyLand computers last month while they were trying to plug their latest recruitment for free. Their posts were deleted. There's equality and consistency in my jackbooting..........

If anyone contributing to this thread or any other concerning NOW has had any substantive point, rather than an ad, contact url or beer goggled outburst, edited or deleted please speak up now and reiterate what you wanted to say.

Regards
Rob Lloyd

[LGS6753]

Although I am disappointed that Now isn't flying yet, I do see the logic of holding back at this stage.
If they get aircraft etc in place ready to sell lots of seats over Christmas, their original launch date of 11th December would have been sensible.
Having missed that, mid-Feb looks sensible. The half-term week is always busy, and then there's only 6-8 weeks until Easter and the summer schedules - enough time to iron out any wrinkles and get everything together.
The cost of paying crew for these few weeks pales into insignificance compared to the losses that could be incurred by flying real planes with no punters. (leases, fuel, maintenance, higher payroll costs, fees and charges, all creating debtors).
I'm looking forward to seeing a few green-lettered 737s at Luton in '04.

[Hamrah]

Whippersnapper,

Just where exactly are you going with this.

I have a number of former colleagues in NOW and want them to succeed in their venture. I've made no secret of that fact.

Looking through both threads that have been running, there appears to be as many NOW enthusiasts as there are sceptics. Thats life, and particularly in these forums.

I will endorse Rob's theme that NOW have one of, if not the best crew Rosterer in the business, which should be a huge draw for anyone who has the pleasure of working with him.

Can I suggest that your efforts would be better directed and concentrated in getting the Airline up and running successfully rather than trying to descredit the sceptics on this site.


Hamrah

[Frankfurt_Cowboy]

Whippersnapper said of jmc-man "suggesting he may be in a similar sector to us". What sector is that? The airline with no aircraft or customers sector???

[FLYMATE]

Well said, Hamrah, I do despair at the cynics. I cannot understand the negativity of some of these people who wish NOW to fail. They should by now realise that we are not going to go away, and that NOW will not launch until they are ready. If only they could be at some of the meetings the CEO attends. The most difficult one must have been where he had to stand infront of over 50 people to say we were once again delayed.

He stood proud with conviction and we saw his disappointment but also his realism. I have entrusted my future career in Lars Wellinder, and in return he has my confidence. I don't know the whole picture and I am within the company. Those outside are hardly in the position to dictate what happens, so I wish they would concede that NOW has not in effect turned into Mama Air, or any of those to which they are compared. NOW once airborne will be a force to be reckoned with up to 20 aircraft by 2006 and bases all over Europe as we are a European company not just a domestic player.So I invite the cynics to at least concede that NOW will fly, and NOW will be successful.

[Fifty Above]

FLYMATE

You say "NOW will not go away". They haven't actually arrived yet, have they!?

Maybe you should re-read PPT's and Hamrah's posts. Enough of the eulogies, ortherwise this thread will also be terminated.

[Fatter Cat]

Returning towards the orginal thread, this NOW lark, seems to have turned into a bit of a soap opera.

Will it?, Won't it?, Has any one seen one yet?.............the list goes on

Come on guys, I think most people here would love to see it suceed, but this is turning into a bit of a farce!
It is now time for some credibility, I know many good guys that have joined up, and have heard their estimates of being on line etc, but I would hate to see them shafted.

Stay tuned!!!

[PPRuNe Towers]

Please tread carefully Flymate. Your posts may well have an effect diametrically opposed to your intentions.

Aviation pros end up a pretty cynical bunch - they can be inspired but it's generally from above. A Babs, a Hamrah and, I would venture to suggest, Uncle Frank in your flight ops team with someone like Nick Watts backing up promises of a real life.

However, when the message comes from lower down the food chain and carries no substantive point or news of progress it can smack of self delusion or justification. This may seem uncharitable or unfair but I'd like you to think it through.

The threads have been closed each time NOW has acheived a milestone along the way - they had become fixated on such things. We will be happy to clear the air with a new thread on receipt of AOC.

Best Wishes to you all,

Rob Lloyd

[FLYMATE]

A fair point made by you. Please excuse my enthusiasm for NOW, we have been waiting for a long time. I did actually start another thread called NOW- A great beginning-maybe a little premature. So as to what you wish to do with those threads is of course up to you as a moderator. Pehaps start one off in a few weeks when a launch date is announced. Anyway, I always enjoy reading the comments, sometimes to be amused by the comments from people not involved in the venture. I hope the threads can continue, but as I said, it is up to you.

[Tenminutes]

Maybe Mr Moderator would (or should) close the thread and open a poll "will NOW start or will NOW not". I for one think it's high time that EZY/RYR had some more competition so I'm all for NOW getting going. I also do understand the reasons behind an ongoing delayed launch. Question is, how long will the backers keep backing with no revenue coming in. Lets hope they keep it going and give EZY/RYR and others a run for their so-called low fares ! RYR are paying their passengers a £1 each to entice them to buy seats. Are RYR seat sales beginning to drop off? What with CRL possibly closing, surely now is the time for NOW to get on the band wagon :ok:

[Whippersnapper]

Flymate - I'm no cynic, I'm on your side!

PPT & Hamra:

I'm not trying to annoy anyone, just to defend one side of the arguement. I appologise if I appeared aggressive, but what I was getting at was the fact that there a few people who ignore the facts and are spreading malicious rhumour, not just general scuttlebutt, that would suggest they have a vested interest in NOW's failure, and are trying to bring that on by creating a confidence vacuum amongst prospective emplyees, pax and investors. JMC-man is one of the more obvious, but there are others too.

What concerns me is not that these posters make their negative remarks (after all we are all entitled to an opinion and this forum is designed for us to express those opinions and try to change those of others), but the fact that threads seem to be closed down if a NOW employee makes too many positve posts (what would you expect?), as in the threat to FLYMATE, and they get closed down with the final word going to the cynics. That sort of moderating does not seem very "moderate" to me - surely the mods should only close/edit threads for foul or abusive language, or overly defamatory remarks, not for someone's stance on the very subject under debate?

[PPRuNe Towers]

Welcome back Whippersnapper,

Firstly, 30 hours on and no-one has come back with a single instance of us altering, editing or deleting a word.

Next on the agenda - the closing of threads. The basic psychology is this: the threads evolve into circular arguments regarding the progression of Now to active business. Through 8 years of running the site we've discovered the hard way that getting through a particular milestone is effectively discarded because a long running thread develops a life and baggage of its own between protagonists.

Thus you will see that the last thread was shut down immediately after the proving flight with these words from hamrah:

After 7 weeks and ten pages, it would appear it's time to move on with this thread.

Best Wishes and well done to my friends in NOW.

Time for a new thread ( if required)

H


This was to effectively draw a line under a vast amount of the discussion and move on. Loads of you reading this - so here's the question. Can you draw any other inference towards our actions or congratulations on the proving flight??? The test must surely be not that you agree with us but that what we are doing is reasonable and unbiased.

Our mods are very careful and without exception have been exposed to the frail realities of our business. Some of you may have seen my note on R+N last night to another group of upset and worried crew where I mentioned the 5 airline failures in my home alone.

We bend over backwards to keep it fair yet still give you a voice and we constantly compare notes in a private forum that you can't see.

Finally, I must apologise - my three interventions have disrupted the flow of this thread and, in some ways, it would be the correct moment to allow it to again start refreshed. However, for consistency's sake, the granting of the AOC remains the right time to throw away all the foregoing discussion and move on.

Regards
Rob Lloyd

[Powerjet1]

Question. If, as rumour has it, that commercial flights may well start mid-february, what would be the usual lead time prior to this, for the commercial launch to the travel industry, joe public, marketing, and of course ticket sales, without which there would be no airline. Four, eight, twelve, sixteen weeks or more ?. In order to maximise bookings, one would think the longer lead time the better, but in these days of intense competion and commercially sensitive information, not wanting to give anything to your competitors until the last minute, lest they jump on the route bandwagon, a short lead time might be more appropriate. So, is it likely that bookings and a marketing campaign etc will start this side of Chistmas, i.e. within the next 4/5 weeks, so everyone will know what Now is about, route destinations, prices etc, or will we move into January 2004 before anything is made public. Or later .................

[bacardi walla]

Powerjet1 I wouldn't hold your breath..... my money is still on April 04 launch - if at all.

[jmc-man]

Depending on the choice of routes, April would be the most sensible start time. I presume this is why April 2003 was the initial target start date. Easter is a good time to get people travelling and it gives a good jump off platform for the summer.

However, NOW would have to manage the salary situation with the people who had already started.

I'm not sure the lease companies would wait that long either, but that would depend on whether NOW had moved past the LOI stage and paid the deposit. A bit of hard negotiation might get them to defer the lease start date.

The only other problem with waiting until April would be that Summer slots would have to be confirmed. I think the slot conference was last week, so hopefully yhey have secured any slots they need. Having said that, is Luton slot controlled??

[LTNman]

No slots for LTN. open 24/7 London's best kept secret shhhh

[Buster the Bear]

Most folk have forgotten the Now press release from last year announcing their intentions to operate fixed fares to Jersey etc.

It will be like a new airline again when eventually the web site goes live for booking. Well assuming it ever does?

I hope their live press release is backed up by massive and months long publicity. If you don't know about em, you cannot book with em!

Ryanair and easyJet are PR masters. Minnows need to face the fact that it will cost millions to publicise themselves, unless they come up with a cool media stunt and pursue it? TED the low cost arm of UniTED! Crap name, but so was Go, and what did they achieve, probably TED will do well if marketed massively?

Having an airline flying to brilliant destinations will fail.

Having an airline flying to brilliant destinations and telling all and sundry about it, just might work? The all and sundry part cost £££milons!

[Tenminutes]

The first launch was this year, around March I believe.

On a seperate matter, and for what it's worth, a mate of mine in LATCC has been told that Eurocontrol are not too happy about the callsign and have asked NOW to come up with another one without the word "NOW" in it ! Keep the replies serious if you can, but does anyone have a suggestion as to what they could use? (jmc-man) I'm waiting !!!

I suggest "FLYAWAY" :confused:

[bigredbin]

I believe their is some truth in this rumour. The authorities have given approval for “NOW FLY” henc it was used on the proving flight however NOW airlines have themselves had second thoughts and are applying for a new callsighn. After doing a search on this they have appear to have two approved callsighns but I cant find out what it is… All the same good to see that the company is ironing out problems before it’s to late.. Good look NOW I can’t wait to see a new operator in town. :O

[HZ123]

How many more of these fledgling LCs' can continue to sart up particularly in what appears to be a shrinking or over supscribed market.

Are the rates of leasing really that cheap that a/c are readily avaible. My other concern is how are these companies finding the sources to bankroll them in the first place.

Will the release of UK registered Easy 737s' encourage more start ups.

The mention of LTN , STN both are well served by any number of LCs therefore I would have thought that new starters can only flourish at the less used airports hence the emergence of EMA, Coventry and maybe Gloucester.

What are your views on this ?

[tailscrape]

Gloucester?

Are you having a laugh? I would not want to fly in and out of there as crew on a daily NDB!!!

[Whippersnapper]

PPT,

Thanks for the reply. I'm sorry if I seem tetchy, but as we all know, it is very easy to misinterpret others' posts, or to be misinterpreted by others. This can quickly end up in a bad spiral. It is also very easy to view some of the anti remarks as a slight on you personally, as none of us would have joined any company if we thought they had no future. The negative posts thus can be read as an insult to the intelligence and judgement of those who have joined new companies, especially when these remarks are made in the tone that some of the posters have used.

While the debate over whether NOW will start or not has been very circular (and most other start-ups have had similar trends in their threads), it's good to see that most posters are now accepting the information before them, rather than just pooh-poohing it. Even JMC-man and Tailscrape seem to accept that it will launch. I hope we can put the cynicism and bluster behind us, and debate issues based on facts rather than speculation.

[LGS6753]

HZ123 -

The reason for the popularity of the London area airports is simple. That's where most people live, it's where foreigners want to visit, and it's where the money is.

Look at the population living within 40 miles of Luton. Compare that with a similar radius around Gloucester, Bristol, Cardiff, Southampton, East Midlands, Newcastle and even Manchester. Foreign visitors want to go to London, they don't know much about the other cities, even though we know they are wonderful.

The LCC destinations from the provinces are predominantly leisure-orientated, and are therefore stealing seat-only business from charter airlines. From London, other routes are busy enough to support a choice of airlines (eg I think FR fly 7 times a day from STN to Rome, and that's in competition with EZY, BA and AZ). There is also a large enough and wealthy enough market for FR to fly to Rodez, Valladolid, Brescia etc and fill their aircraft. How well would (say) Jet2 do if flying LBA-Carcassonne?!?

[Tenminutes]

....and I wonder if NOW will be targeting those destinations that ex-pats want to fly to/from i.e. LEI, BOD and maybe the Canaries :mad:

[HZ123]

LSG
Working at LHR the arse---- of the aviation world I am aware of your thread, the point I was making refers to new entrants into the LC market.

Surely with so much competition in addition to the established carriers chasing the cheap fares, newer outfits will have to look to the more remote airports to be able to compete.

Daily we read of yet another start up or proposed start up I say that such growth cannot continue for much longer.

[Whippersnapper]

HZ123:

You're right that there is only so much demand or capacity, and there are a lot of apparent start ups. However, some of these new names are just re-brands, and the market still shows more demand. While the 2 dominant LCAs do take the majority of this trade, others like Jet2 appear to be doing well. Don't forget that EZY and Ryan are their own big problems at the moment, and both may end up having to drop significant numbers of routes. This will give some headway for niche providers.

[bacardi walla]

With RYR possibly closing it's CRL operation, maybe NOW's choice of BRU is not such a bad idea. Maybe they will switch to CRL :mad:

[Tenminutes]

Any further news from the land of NOW and whether their plans to start flying soon will be dashed (again) ?:rolleyes:

[FLYMATE]

All quiet on that front, although, apparently, those who have selected to be on wages are being paid, and those who decided to join at a later date have gone elsewhere. As always, waiting for the 737-300 to be handed over...

[APG]

G-IGOC is now at Lasham, may even get painted ;)

Paul

[jmc-man]

Whippersnapper

Don't forget that EZY and Ryan are their own big problems at the moment, and both may end up having to drop significant numbers of routes. This will give some headway for niche providers.

I'm not sure I follow your logic. Ryanairs "problems " are that they may have to start paying more money to use some of the airports where they have enjoyed "artificial" subsidies (allegedly :)). Easyjets "problems" is difficulty in raising average yield over a 12 month period, resulting in a drop in profits as costs have increased.

It doesn't follow that either of these operators will drop routes ( especially profitable ones) for any reason. If they drop routes at all, it will because they can't get the economics to work...and surely that would be a good reason for any else attempting to run a low cost operation to avoid them.

The Low Cost Model relies on 2 things , Volume and Cash. Lot and Lots of people paying small amounts of money up front. It's a simple formula. If want an insight, read Barabara Cassani's book, and see how much GO lost before they bounced back...because they got the volume up. Somewhere between 15 to 20 aircraft is about right as a starting point.

Of the so called "Start-ups" out there all of them ( bar 1- the title of this thread) are bolt-on operations to an already existing operation, so the true costs and profits will be lost in the Group detail. It will be impossible to determine if any of them are making money in their own right. Only NOW will ( assuming it gets up an running) will be a truly independent operation, and will have one serious challenge in the existing marketplace to gain a strong enough foothold to grow to the level required to show sustained profits.

[bacardi walla]

so still no sign of an aircraft being put into some sort of service then? :confused:

[Tarek Nor]

APG

'OC is still at STN :*

[Powerjet1]

Anyone know how many 'bods' are actually gainfully employed at Now at present. Presumably all at Halycon House.

Whilst, from past posts, it would seem a new website is in the offing, the old website still lists many finance/admin jobs available plus flight/cabin crew. Surely these have been filled or is it just a case of the website never being updated. Either way, if journos from the trade/travel press look it up, it hardly instills any positive reaction. If they can't be bothered to update, it perhaps they should shut it down until such time if and when a launch is announced. New website to go with it at that time.

[Whippersnapper]

JMC-Man:

The problems that I was referring to at Ryan Air and the possible reductions in routes is already observable - Strasburg, Charleroi and threats to withdraw from Kerry to name but a few. I believe that they also have to start paying for their 800s next year and that their load factor has dropped hence the acceleration of the 200 retirements.

As for easyJet, their main problem is a massive lack of crew, both pilots and cabin crew, and increasing difficulty in attracting suitable new candidates (hence the Berlin base). Rostering is unable to cope with the existing network resulting in crews having fatigue issues and a soaring sickness rate. They simply don't have the people to fly the aeroplanes. The yields at easyJet remain extremely good, but this is no low-cost airline; it's haemorraging money on pointless projects, sub-chartering and management bonuses.

[Tenminutes]

Powerjet1 I know 3 people who are actually employed and within Halcyon House, and being paid ! I think the website is just not being updated as the new one will no doubt go into full swing soon (hopefully).

[tailscrape]

whippersnapper

What? "Even jmc man and Tailscrape admit it may start" or some such stuff...

May I remind you that I wa soffered a place on the first 737 conversion course. However I declined the offer as I did not feel that NOW had enough of a plan to keep me in work...

That was last MAY!!! We are in December nearly now...and still no aircraft, routes or passengers.

Not knocking them, but the people at NOW in my opinion desreve both my and jmc man's scepticism.

We all live in a real world, and NOW would have had me giving my house back to the bank already had I accepted methinks.

Be real. :(

[isis]

Just read through this long thread and some very good comments from JMC Man but I am left wondering why Flymate is so in love with NOW. And what gives HIM the right to answer back to people the way he does, when they are only giving their opinions on the matter.

To be told one week after joining "we are delayed again until February" and "you can take shares for payment or be on a basic salary", and wait to be called to do office work, wouldn't fill me with confidence, so you deserve all the comments you receive Flymate.

Yes the new cabin crew have just had their first wage paid in today, but when are you going to start flying? By the time they get the first aircraft and its finished off, it will be too late to do the AD HOC charters they have promised you all over DEC. Maybe you should take off your rose coloured glasses flymate and listen to some constructive critiscim.....

[eagerbeaver]

from the outside it may not look too good, but would you all not agree that a lot of people have chosen to join and leave good jobs in other companies therefore they must all know something others don't? - at least thats what i think.
The management team have being extremely sensible in their decisions, it aint easy what they are doing.Its gonna happen.

hello tailscrape hows the lug'oles? Got lots to tell ya.

[FLYMATE]

isis, as you claim to have read ALL the previous threads, you will have got a good idea of what people "think" is happening at NOW. It is clearly obvious I have a vested interest in NOW.

I simply get very tired of reading things from people, such as jmc-man, who come on to this thread and although they know the aviation world pretty well, they write absolute drivel when it comes to the subject of NOW. Outsiders may well see indecision and strange undertakings by the management, however if they were "in the know" and present at the briefings, their overview of what is going on would be so different.

An opinion is one thing, but to put across a view as if they know all the facts is WRONG when they cannot back up their opinion with TRUE facts of what is going on.

Also the tone in the negative comments is almost wishing that NOW goes down the pan making 100's of people unemployed. A strange sentiment by our fellow "colleagues". It will be curious when NOW is up there and flying, just how many of these cynics will be knocking at NOW's door asking for jobs. Personally, I wish they would stay put elsewhere as NOW can do without the destructive types.

[Buster the Bear]

Sept 19th was the last media release, so when is the next due?

I just want to be on their first flight.

The info relating to leasing planes that need huge work since the end of thier last lease must be incorrect, unless the lessor is footing the delay bill for Now staff salaries?

So much rumour and gossip, but that is the enjoyment of this web site.

Good luck to all @ Now.

[LTNman]

NOW Airlines have confirmed to LLA an amended start date of February 2004 operating 5+ European routes utilising B737-300 aircraft. Seat sales are expected from early December 2003.

[Thunor]

Forgive my ignorance but who are LLA? As always just curious!

[bacardi walla]

LLA = London Luton Airport, and I dare say that if NOW get their a/c problems sorted out soon, then seat sales and operations will commence as they mention, in February. We await even more developments to ...... develop !

[isis]

:uhoh: All this talk of dates, planes and routes!

And no finance in place yet! all my friends at Now are NOW looking for other jobs........any better news to tell Flymate?

[bacardi walla]

isis and with no finance in place, how do explain why the CAA allowed a proving flight to happen? They wouldn't waste their time if there was no money around. Prove me wrong.

[Powerjet1]

Understand that the CAA have approved the safety checks for operations but some of the route economics to certain destinations is taking longer than expected. And of course, one small problem, no aircraft.

[Thunor]

bacardi walla - thank you for kindly answering my question; however in response to your comment to isis as
I understand it:

NO aircraft = NO AOC
NO AOC = NO financial backing
NO financial backing = ...............?

Amongst other things it means as isis has already stated NOW "employees" looking for alternative employment - ALLEGEDLY with the blessing (not to say encouragement!?) of NOW's "management"!????

Prove me (or isis ) wrong!

Interesting to note that FLYMATE who until now has always been extremely vociferous and quick to "preach the gospel according to NOW..." (with all the zeal and fervour of a religous convert!) has gone strangely and most uncharacteristically silent!

Has he finally removed his rose-tinted spectacles?

Before I get shot down in flames by the NOW zealots let me once again stress I am NOT "anti-NOW" and I genuinely wish every one involved all the success in the world but I prefer to deal in facts rather than fantasy and wishful thinking!

Let's face it this is a company that boldly proclaimed its intentions back in......was it March? I forget it seems so long ago NOW!

Good Luck to all!

[Tenminutes]

At last, I have it on good authority that NOW will not be starting this side of Christmas, that's this Christmas. Seems also that they could be looking elsewhere for airframes as the leasing company/EZY are still playing up. If someone can prove any of this wrong, like FLYMATE, maybe you'd be kind enough to post something :rolleyes:

[FLYMATE]

Thunor, I have been away that's all. There's not much to add except the launch will be this side of Christmas and Ten Minutes, it is clear that EZY have been dragging their heels with the airframes so the management have gone in search of other suppliers and if the EZY airframes do not become available soon, then they will take delivery of alternative airframes and so penalising EZY.

[LTNman]

I say again that Luton Airport have published a report that I have seen that Now have told them they will not fly until Feb 2004.

[Buster the Bear]

LTN man could well be correct.

[jmc-man]

The two ex GO aircraft listed as being acquired by NOW are available "immediately" from the lease company, according to the latest AIRFAX report, which might suggest that NOW have already started to look elsewhere.

Either that or the Lease company is hedging it's bets, which might also suggest that they are not holding a deposit.

[Buster the Bear]

Someone, somewhere said that G-IGOC was destined for Now following its lease to easyJet?

Well it has just overflown me and is on finals for Luton.

Come on Mr 1 Bravo you will know the answer?

http://www.gifs.net/animate/bear3p.gif

[bacardi walla]

Well, there's no way it's heading for NOW, not today anyway.

[Buster the Bear]

Well it is now at Luton, my Big Bear palace is directly underneath final approach so i have no idea of its colour scheme, but it could be back for easyJet to operate thier enhanced Luton timetable over Christmas. The pilot doing the R/T did actually say "easy....er Golf Oscar Charlie".

So if this was bound for Now!, what now?

http://www.gifs.net/animate/bear3p.gif

[bacardi walla]

the phrase back to the drawing board springs to mind.... I suspect NOW have lost those 2 a/c and are now looking elsewhere. Still, bit short sighted to look at ex EZY a/c in the first place.....:confused:

[Tarek Nor]

bacardi walla

You are mistaken. Both aircraft are still for NOW.

IF 'OC was at LTN last night then it was a weather
diversion from elsewhere.

[Powerjet1]

Flymate

On 3 December. you commented about ' a launch this side of Christmas'. I assume you mean the commercial launch to the Travel industry, press etc. With Christmas only two weeks away and the on-going saga re aircraft etc, isn't this somewhat unlikely now?.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

LTN was heading south of 200m last night. I would have expected diversions from LTN rather than to it. What time did it arrive?

Seems like a rubbish time to launch a new airline - the run up to Christmas. Advertising rates are at their highest in the year. Most people are spending on presents - not airline tickets.

Something like mid January makes more sense to me. Advertising drops to its knees, everybody is miserable with the weather and people start thinking about holidays again.

But then I know absolutely nothing about launching an airline.

Cheers

WWW

[OLNEY 1 BRAVO]

It arrived at Luton at around 19.20 well before the visibility dropped. I'm told it is still at Luton in a wonderful all white scheme.

Sorry for the delay in posting Buster!

[bacardi walla]

Tarek Nor thanks, but if OC was at LTN and on diversion from somewhere else, who is flying it? Thought EZY had handed it back to the lease company, or about to !

[Tarek Nor]

bacardi walla

You are correct 'OC is at LTN, however it was NOT flightplanned
to LTN.

It was flown by an EZY crew, this was supposed to be the
return to lessor flight......

[Buster the Bear]

My mates confirm that it was not in Now! livery (Pity).

Is it still at Luton?

I knew Mr 1 B would know.

http://www.gifs.net/animate/bear3p.gif

[FLYMATE]

Someone should pop over to wherever it is parked and take a picture of it. I don't know if it is THE one or not. As for the launch, if it IS indeed the aircraft being taken on by NOW then that means the AOC has been granted and the tickets can go on sale for a launch this side of Christmas as was envisaged. More than that I do not know.

[Tenminutes]

The a/c wasn't planned to LTN as per TAREK NOR's input earlier which means it is supposed to be somewhere else which means that the AOC is still yet to be issued which means seat sales cannot start which means no launch which in turn means............more waiting :rolleyes:

[Lord Fulmer]

OC is in the process of being ferried to Bournmouth to go into storage to await its next posting. Fact.

[Tarek Nor]

Lord Fulmer

You seem to be mixing fact and fiction. Ferried to BOH yes.
Storage NO! Its still for NOW.

[one truevoice]

If indeed we do see this long awaited launce, which I hope we do, is there any word on chosen handling agents in MAN and LTN?

Have they been waiting sinch March for an arrival or has an agent not been appointed yet?

[Tenminutes]

A little birdy tells me that bad news is possibly around the corner and unless they seriously get their act together VERY soon, the name NOW will become NEVER. The first a/c is at BOH awaiting it's fate in terms of next lease which at this rate will not be with NOW.

With NOW seemingly suffering with a lack of finance, it makes you wonder how MYT's backers remain loyal. Surely these backers would be better off backing something new rather than a business that is going knowhere fast. Let's face it MYT's losses are huge and can only get worse.

Any pilots or cabin crew, ground staff (if there are any) care to make comment. Lets face it, your livelyhoods are at stake here and with constant promises which turns into bull***t I'd guess you must all be losing faith. Tarek Nor, you appear to be in the know, tell us something we haven't already heard !

[jmc-man]

Tenminutes
With NOW seemingly suffering with a lack of finance, it makes you wonder how MYT's backers remain loyal. Surely these backers would be better off backing something new rather than a business that is going knowhere fast.

There is an old saying that goes " If you owe the Bank £10,000 , it's your problem. If you owe the bank £10M it's their problem", and this sums up the MYT situation. Most of the backers of MYT are in so deep, they might as well hang on ( provided their exposure doesn't increase) on the basis that the first one to pull out will bring down the whole house of cards.

W.r.t. backing for Now, my view remains that they cannot make a strong business case for what is effectively another Low Cost operator in a heavily subscribed market without an obvious niche. All the talk about it being " different" will not reassure an investor, as the existing formula is seen to be " successful" by virtue of the current profit levels of both RYR and EZY.

The second quietest month of the Flying year (after November) is February. NOW would be better waiting for an April or May launch at this stage, assuming they can get all the pieces together.

[OLNEY 1 BRAVO]

I can confirm that G-IGOC did infact ferry Luton to Bournemouth yesterday as "easyJet oscar charlie" and it also undertook a brief training sortie before heading to the coast using the same callsign.

[bacardi walla]

jmc-man so, a year since original launch then ? Might as well give up.....:rolleyes: Just how do other airlines around the world spring up, launch and get going all within short time scales :confused:

For an airline that "launched" in March last year, it certainly is generating interest on Pprune. 3 major threads, 2 closed down, and a 3rd about to be no doubt, and yet it hasn't started flying. What will happen when it starts flying, then shuts down? How many pages on here will that generate :confused:

[FLYMATE]

I think you'll find that the original launch of NOW was in March 2003, that's not a year. Also other start ups normally start piggy backing on someone else's AOC like easyJet did with Air Foyle, NOW want to get their own and not rely on piggy backing.

[Say again s l o w l y]

Why not go on somebody else's AOC for a while? If it means you get flying, get some income and get your name known to the public why not? It may not be as profitable as having your own, but something is always better than nothing.

Hopefully NOW will get going, but I can't see it being successful at the moment, they obviously haven't got the cash and as we all know, at the end of the day that's all that matters.

[jmc-man]

Yarpy/ Flymate,

Both Flyjet and Astraeus are examples of recent start-ups that achieved an AOC in 6-7 weeks from application.

I don't believe this is the problem with NOW. As I understand it, they have completed the AOC side of things. The underlying issue is more likely funding, in particular the funding required by the CAA CPG for a scheduled airline selling seats directly to the public, something neither Flyjet nor Astraeus needed to do.

The CPG's requirements of sufficient funding to operate for 3 months after startup with NO income will, at the moment be a moving feast for NOW, especially if they have a group of people on salary already.

[bacardi walla]

FLYMATE yes, you are correct, it was March this year, my mistake (just seems like last year). However, by the time NOW actually get off the ground (if), I dare say a full year would have passed if not more. My original question still stands though. How do other start ups around Europe do it quicker than NOW? Big mistakes being made already by the looks of it (by that I mean approaching a leasing company who is current with NOW's main competitor)....:uhoh:

[Powerjet1]

Tend to agree with jmc-man that funding is the main problem that Now have, both short & longer term. Route economics are still being looked at by the CAA and if the full requisite funding was in place this would have been agreed weeks ago. Also, it would seem that at least one of the aircraft Now were sourcing (O C ) is available for their useage. Question is WILL, or CAN they do anything about it. Time is a luxury that seems to be on an ever decreasing and expensive curve for Now.

[Waggon rut]

jmc-man

Just to correct you a little, any holder of an AOC with aircraft above 19 seats needs to have 3 months cash ready when they first start (ie no income for 3 months). Does not matter if they sell to the public or not. If someone else sells their seats then that company needs an ATOL.

[jmc-man]

Waggon rut,

You are quite correct, my post wasn't clear. For NOW, as opposed to the other charter start-ups they have BOTH requirements ( Start up capital AND an ATOL).

I'm really not sure why NOW did not look at the option of operating on someone else's AOC to start with. It would significantly reduce the initial funding requirement, got the name in front of the Public, and given them some income. It would also have been a lower risk method of determining the validity of the business model.

Iceland Express is a good example at the moment. They have succeeded in securing a sizeable chunk of their market, have increased the overall traffic on the routes they cover, and will be adding a second aircraft in April ( According to industry newspapers).

I understand NOW have been ringing around trying to place their pilots elsewhere.

[tailscrape]

So, I hear that the meeting at NOW on Friday in Luton was not that hopeful.

Especially as they laid off staff..... with no warning.

So, FLYMATE and BACRDI WALLA.... is the situation still looking good?

Why lay off staff members who haven't drawn ANY wages yet? Possibly because in January they were about to?

And because NOW has no cash I suggest.

Be warned, this shower of sh?t is not going to get flying and even if it does, it will be bust soon afterwards.

I would suggest you leave before the "management" embarrass you even more than they have already,by you defending them so vigourously.

JMC MAN. You have been right all along.

[Little Friend]

Tailcrap,

You are such a tosser

[jmc-man]

Tailscrape,
I understand your message, but I might have worded it differently.

I also have heard the message on Friday was very depressing, with some talk of a "last Minute" american investor coming to the table.

Irrespective of the outcome, the Flight Ops Team can be proud of an incredible achievement of getting through the AOC process successfully without money, resources or even an aircraft

I just hope, if the project is terminated, too many people's lives won't have been destroyed along the way......my concern about this project from day one.

[isis]

It is a great shame when an airline doesnt get off the ground but NOW have treated their employees like crap, as i posted some time ago they have no backing anymore and I got shot down immediately.............they told their new cabin crew after they had finished their course, after they had re-located and spent a huge amount of money investing in these tossers, that the company will not happen if they do not find a new investor.

The employees have been messed around from start to finish, I hear they have one more day to advise the employees if the company will happen or not.

Dont hold your breath everyone!

What a saga and yes what a shame that good people who wanted to believe in a new company have been used and abused in a such a way......:uhoh:

[ghost-rider]

I can confirm that G-IGOC did infact ferry Luton to Bournemouth yesterday as "easyJet oscar charlie" and it also undertook a brief training sortie before heading to the coast using the same callsign.

Just to correct a technicality, the 'training sortie' was actually a pressurisation check at FL350.

It flew under the regn c/s, not EZY, as it ain't ours anymore. The crew were EZY though.

[bacardi walla]

tailscrape I have nothing to do with NOW and like most people on here now, am seriously thinking that this bunch of amateurs won't get off the ground. By amateurs I mean the man at the top who, if you cast your mind back to the very first thread about this company, got a slating for being the wrong person for the job. Seems he has proved them all right. Being at the top means he has failed all those he promised.

As for laying off people who have yet to draw wages, that part is not true. They have drawn wages and are being laid off. If I were involved with this company, I think I'd be getting out under my own steam rather than wait to be pushed.

Wednesday 17th December is crunch day apparently but why wait to tell all the staff and would-be staff that this project ain't going anywhere. Reason? It's what the so-called top man does well. Lie and make people think he's doing them a favour by trying.

Oh and Ten Minutes Having inside information from FLS gives you the advantage doesn't it ???

[Waggon rut]

jmc-man

Just another small point to make clear, one of the great things about an airline is thay do not need an atol if they sell the seats direct. There is no protection at all for the customer apart from credit card (Not switch or Delta). It is the tour operator has to cop the insurance. So with the likes of BA now selling to the direct public they can take money upto nearly one year ahead as use it as they see fit.
I know have have gone off the point a bit, but most people have no idea this can happen.
Now where are the aircraft?

[Tenminutes]

bacardi walla all I will say is that NOW will NOT be getting the 2 a/c in question. They've lost them.:cool:

[jumpseater]

So if they've gone to blue rince city, does that mean channex have got them for Jet2?

[FLYMATE]

All this talk of layoffs and the company folding, I haven't heard anything like that yet. Shall we wait for an official announcement one way or another rather than worry all the employees with speculation...

[MaxMet]

I have heard that people have been layed off last week as there specialist services are no longer required.

And that was straight from the horses mouth.

Bad luck to those people involved I hope that something arises soon.

Time for a career change yet?

Maximillian Von Metternich

[Thunor]

FLYMATE ,

I thought that you had finally removed your "rose-coloured glasses" but clearly you have not removed the cotton wool from (between?) your ears!!!

Good Luck to all those affected who now have to re-build their shattered dreams, careers and lives!

[FLYMATE]

When I get an official statementt to ME from the managers I will then speak, unlike the cynical and nasty comments posted here.

[bacardi walla]

Come on FLYMATE wake up, it ain't happening. Lets face it, a launch in March this year and still absolutely no further down the road apart from having done a proving flight, which means nothing actually. What are you going to do, wait for the postman on Wednesday to tell you it's game over? Oh yeh, NOW don't do letters do they :confused:

It's very sad though as I think maybe, just maybe, they could have succeeded. However, wrong team at the very top.

[tailscrape]

little friend

Maybe I am a tosser as your eloquent quote says. However I am not as big a tosser as this shower.

jmc man

Yeah, maybe you would have said it differently. However I will speak the truth. this lot have messed people around and will NEVER get flying.

bacardi walla

Apologies if I tarred you with a sh?tty NOW brush. However, the guy I know in question who got laid off by the training manager had actually deferred wages and stayed at home in exchange for some "lord lucan" shares in this shambles. To show faith like that and then be laid off is quite frankly unspeakably awful. And just before xmas too....

So, in essence we may as well stop talking about this lot, because they are NOT an airline and NEVER will be. They should be on fantasy bullsh?t ideas.org, not PPRUNE.

Yours,

Walter Mitty.

[saltrock surfer]

Well I do wish you'd stop talking about it 'tailcrap' because you come across as one of the most obnoxious and inexperienced contributors to any forum in this site and that includes all your past comments about other airlines you've tried to get a job with and somehow or other deemed that they were beneath you - whether NOW flies or not, I'm just glad that I won't have to sit next to you

[Whippersnapper]

Jmc-mans remarks are moderate and reasonably accurate. Thanks for the concern.

Isis is full of it - none of us have been treated like crap; all have been kept upto date with all the developments, and all have access to the top man. How many companies share their bad news with their employees so directly?

Tailscrapre's gloating and personal insults are just an indication of his/hers immaturity. What makes us a "shower of s88t"? The fact that we had the balls to stand up for ourselves and get out of a bad employer, and try to get a new and froward thinking outfit going? You have shown a similar attitude to MYT - what has made you so bitter as to gloat on others misfortune?

At the end of the day, the plan is good, the mgmt excellent and the finance is likely to come through, just too late for the planned season. It should still fly, and I am still glad I gave them my best.

[Frankfurt_Cowboy]

Errrr, does this mean that beatings around the back of the LTN flying club are now off the agenda????? Some people may like to feel just a little bit sheepish about their "threats". Bestest regards

F_C

[Thunor]

Whippersnapper ,

I suspect that isis was referring to the intended Cabin Crew for this supposed "non-existent" airline who have indeed been "treated like crap"!

No doubt in your elevated status as a B737 pilot you will have been treated a little better!?

It was ever thus!

[tailscrape]

saltrock surfer

Enjoy that feeling. It is mutual.

whippersnapper

Right, so you left a bad employer. One that presumably paid it's people every month? One that kept it's promises to job applicants. I presume.

The plan is sound. Right oh then.?? Offer jobs in May, leave people sitting around for months, then lay them off without paying them a penny. Just before Xmas. Nice. And, I reiterate that this gentleman has not received ONE PENNY in wages since his "start date".

A new and froward(sic) thinking company? What? You are just grateful that the axe hasn't swung on you yet really. The facts are that others have been treated abominably by your froward thinking management. I hope they lose the axe quickly.

I am not gloating. I am pointing out the FACTS here. NOW have been full of hot air since the LAUNCH back in early 2003.

You may hate me for my views, but really I bet you are hoping to hell that you get another job. And personally, I hope you do because you have been shafted even though you do not realise it yet .

NOW are not going to get going because they have NO MONEY. And with NO MONEY, they will get NO AIRCRAFT. And with NO AIRCRAFT, you will have NO PASSENGERS. So, with NO PASSENGERS NOW will have NO BUSINESS. End of story.

I don't think I will be proved wrong on this.

I hope that my immaturity has not offended you. Immaturity could be realism as well. It depends on which side of the story you prefer.:(

[isis]

Give that man a gold star, tailscrape I couldnt have put it better myself..maybe Whippersnapper can read and learn, or are you too tied up in the "neverland" mentality.

Everybody loves management that are approachable and open especially when they tell you the crap you want to hear!
Open your eyes Whippersnapper you may be asking that bad company for your job back in a few days....you remember the one Easyjet, the company who does have planes and pays monthly!

[Tenminutes]

Whippersnapper a friend of mine has been offered a job with NOW, and that was back in June/July and to date he has only ever had one phone call to update him. That, I'm afarid, is not what I would call looking after potential staff. I suspect though that when (if) he gets another phone call to say "come on down" he will be long gone and so another highly motivated and experienced person on type, is lost.

I'd say this company is getting a bad reputation even before it starts flying. Lets hope then that the potential new money man won't back down because without him, NOW will never be. With such a good team of people on board, those from GO I mean, it deserves to succeed. As for the ex VEX man, well.......:{

[saltrock surfer]

Okay so the situation at NOW doesn't look great but........

tailcrap - in reply to someone else you said-

Right, so you left a bad employer. One that presumably paid it's people every month? One that kept it's promises to job applicants. I presume.

Are you seriously talking about easyjet?

Changed your tune since they were the nastiest people you'd ever come across - oh let me see that was when you couldn't get a job with them wasn't it

Isis - it seems that the only person/people complaining about crap treatment of staff by NOW management are people that are not actually NOW staff so ??????????????????????????? - where are all the staff letting off their steam then or perhaps you're talking a load of old rubbish

[Tenminutes]

I suspect the staff are doing something more valuable with their time - like looking for another job. This is all very sad really, on the assumption that NOW won't get airborne. Here we are another 9 page plus thread and no airline......:mad:

[bacardi walla]

Ten Minutes I think they are doing just that and I bet FLYMATE won't be posting any more positive threads. He/she has just been laid off !

[Powerjet1]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't the East of England Development Agency shell out £300,000 to assist in getting this project 'off the ground' so to speak.

[eagerbeaver]

thats true but i dont think £300'000 lasts very long in this business. I have no idea about intial startup costs but i heard $25'000'000 touted is this reasonable? If so where on earth do you find enough nutters to stump up this sort of cash?

FLYMATE do you still think NOW will fly? honestly? I hope they do, i really do but its going to be tough.

JMCMAN i seem to remember offering you a hat to eat but i think i might hold onto it a little longer, (i like my hat roasted)

[FLYMATE]

Reading all the speculations and opinions above, I am amazed at the "told you so" comments. Doesn't anyone have any idea of business? Start ups go through ups and downs, this is a down. There is in now way that the company will fold. It is a matter of time for funds to become available.

I read the comments, and some of them quite frankly hurt my feelings. The sceptics make comments and have no feeling for the people who have invested their time in NOW. What a nasty lot those sceptics are. Stay away from NOW when we are successful, we don't want nasty people like jmc-man,isis,tailscrape and the like.

[VIKING9]

Hello there FLYMATE would I be right in saying that the cabin staff have all been laid off recently? I've been watching these threads from a distance and have seen the whole thing slide slowly downwards. Good to see that you still have faith in something that potentially has huge potential, but does the management team still think they can get this off the ground? Finance is the main stumbling block in any business if you can't get it. Let's hope all the negative vibes being posted will turn to positive ones very soon.

NOW then......or.......NOW now ? http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/sulkoff.gif

[Dirty Harry]

Some nasty comments about NOW. I have a friend who has just been laid off by NOW, but despite this he is still hugely complimentary about the management team and the way in which they have handled everything. They have been honest and very upfront with all the employees it would seem.

[Buster the Bear]

Big Bad Buster did some market research today, and if you phone the Now! switchboard and get transferred to those that know about their future operations, the understanding is that Now! will be launching at the end of Jan/early Feb!

http://www.gifs.net/animate/bear3p.gif

[iain8867]

Well I have just sat here and read all 9 pages on this thread, the complimentary ones and the not so.

I have just been laid off, by NOW. I have to say that I have never worked with a bunch of people that have worked so hard to keep us all. Lars gives feed back good and bad. We have all had the facts placed in front of us at every briefing.

It is a shame that we have had to go and I will admit I will find it difficult being laid off just before Christmas. But that is the only bad thing I have to say about the company.

If I get a call from them, I WILL GO BACK. If I don't, I will go on.

It will be a shame if this Company folds and I hope very much so that it will not, not just as I WANT to work for them, but I think in the airline business competition is good for everyone and I think it is time for new independant competition to emerge

That is all I can say on the matter,at this time, but would it not be better for people in the business to help and support each other instead of back biting and bitchy comments?

There are people on here, me included, that are unemployed, so even if you feel that NOW has tarred people with a sh***y brush, do you really think we want to hear it at the moment?!?!?!?

MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL:) :O :D

[jmc-man]

Dirty Harry,

I havn't been involved in "Nasty" comments......but I find it extremely difficult to match up......... I have a friend who has just been laid off by NOW with They have been honest and very upfront with all the employees it would seem. .

How can offering someone a job in an airline that has not been financed properly only to have to lay them off again within 6 weeks be termed as "honest and upfront".

Being honest, they should have said," We'd love you to come and work for us, but we havn't got the finance yet, and we don't want you to leave your existing job until we have the money required to start the business"

Now that would be "upfront" as you put it.

The greatest shame of what's happening here is that most of the strong Pro-NOW comments here have been from enthusiastic and well intentioned employees, who have obviously bought into the dream presented to them by the Senior Management team. Everyone believed the blind enthusiasm of the top leadership, and wouldn't countenance any suggestion that maybe the top guys might not have got it right.

So now the enthusiastic employees are finding themselves out of work, while the reputation of the Dream -seller is intact. I wonder how much this has cost the Chief Operating Officer, or the Interim Chairman.

Something not quite right about that.

Buster
Whatever credibility the team might have had up to now will evaporate as quickly as the employee parking spaces.

[FEBA]

Tailscrape
I am curious as to the motive for your invective. You appear to gloat at the unfortunate which is odious. I doubt whether you are privy to the facts so pretending that you are is mischievous, please desist.
Redundancy is a dreadful experience at any time of year, particularly heightened at Christmas time. I hope it never happens to you, although there may be some contributors to this forum that will disagree with me on this point.
JMC-Man
When I did meteorology, evaporating car park spaces was not a part of the curiculum. Has something changed, a new phenomenon perhaps ? :confused:

FEBA

[FLYMATE]

I for one remain very poitive, we are in a state of being on hold, whilst the finances arrive. The company has not folded. It is merely being held suspended whilst investors look over the company and go ahead with investing. Until then I will keep the faith and keep my nerve. The rewards will come to those who believe in this venture. Others will fall by the weigh side, that is their choice. I for one will be there when we go for launch.

[Buster the Bear]

Now Airlines update

Now Airlines, the new low-cost airline first revealed in March, has confirmed that it will announce its launch plan early in the New Year.


The airline is nearing completion in the process for gaining its full licenses from the CAA.

Chief executive, Lars Welinder said: “Unfortunately it hasn’t been possible to start operating in time for the Christmas season as we had hoped. The CAA process is nearing completion and we will announce our launch plans in the New Year”.

[isis]

I feel very sorry for the ops department who have been laid off at NOW and also very sorry for the cabin crew who at this moment are in limbo, they havent got a clue if they have a job or not, all they have been told is that NOW are waiting for finance and NOW only have enough money left to pay them till DEC. Should they wait some more believing the rubbish delivered up to them?

And as JMC man has said an upfront company would have told their wonderful supportive staff they were in difficulties before they left their jobs, which may have been depressing but at least paid the bills.

No NOW were not being upfront because they wanted staff in place just in case the company got the finance, thats called not giving a toss about peoples lives! or is that a great management team?
:ok:

[jmc-man]

Oh Dear,

Another " We 're just finishing off the paperwork" announcement. I make that 4 such announcements.

The £300,000 they were given as a grant obviously runs out at the end of the year.

In the meantime, an experienced group of crew, operations and various other staff have been laid off without pay as a Christmas Present.

I'm really sorry guys. Back at the beginning of the FIRST thread, I warned against start-ups which could not demonstrate a cohesive and fully funded plan.

I doubt if Lars and company will have any problems putting Christmas Dinner on the table, unlike many of the people they have just laid off.

[Cyrano]

Buster:

I take my hat off to your well-informedness - Whipsnade must have excellent links to the seats of power. The updated statement is on the Now website now.

[ghost-rider]

Now I'm really confused !! ( no pun intended ! ) :confused:

If the Ops Dept, flight-deck & cabin-crew members plus presumably HQ staff have all been laid-off ... then how come they're still able to start early next year ?

Are they going to offer all redundant staff they're jobs back or begin a re-recruitment drive ? :uhoh:

If it is true staff have been laid-off ... then sincere condolences to all involved.

[Powerjet1]

Heard from an informed source that Now are giving it one month for the alleged finance proposals to be completed in its entirety. If this does not happen, Now will shut down completely.

[Chillwinston]

Reading previous threads and this current one on Now it seems to me that, like always in life there will be the people that always see the bad in good.

NOW for instance, whether they make it or not, at least they have tried with all the best intentions to make a go of creating not only an airline but an airline that is independednt, unique and employ alot of people, for the customer, at least there could/would be a choice, choice = lower fares.

So for all the "Told You So's" & "It Will Never Work Because...." ask yourself this question what have you created and ran recently and before you snipe, ask yourself "could you of done any better?"

My feelings go out to the many staff whom have an unsure future and to all at NOW, hope the backing appears and for once something good can be reported on PPrune

Chillwinston

[FLYMATE]

Powerjet, there is no intention of closing NOW down at all. NOW is simply in a state of "held on ice" whist the finances are received. All staff will return once the nod is given.

[PAXboy]

When observing company startups - across the range of commercial endeavour - the ones that really move forward, are the ones that keep moving forward. If the Idea phase moves directly to the Start phase and then onto the Trading phase, then everyone sees progress and it develops (to continue the metaphor) a momentum that draws everyone in and they all gather speed together.

If that process is broken, all momentum is lost and the problem of starting again is not just the same as before but redoubled. As a potential passenger of NOW, I hope that they prove to be the exception.

[CPT4C]

FLYMATE did you or did you not blame easyjet for NOW not starting before christmas? how could they have ever intended to start when the finance was NEVER in place.

[Honiley]

FLYMATE
Reading your posts I take it you are very young???!!!!

I find it amazing you can be so blinkered...your obviously new to the airline world!! Get over it, grow up and move on..!

Best of luck and wishes to all looking for new jobs...

[VIKING9]

CPT4C think you will find that easyJet played a VERY big part in the latest events at NOW, in as much as the original investors got cold feet when they saw that no aircraft were being delivered as planned. That was indeed caused by our friends in Tangoland. What needs to happen now is that alternative aircraft need to be obtained from a reliable source and any potential new investor will hopefully not get the same "cold feet feeling".;)

[FLYMATE]

Honiley, yes that's it, I am actually 12! Silly Honely not to notice just how much I know about aviation, obviously not reading my previous posts. It's called enthusiasm and belief Honiley. I suggest you wait and see what happens in the new year. So easyJet got their way, well we will just see how strongly NOW fight back and get their rightful place at Luton.

[jmc-man]

Flymate,
you get all this stuff thrown at you because of your naive postings.

The suggestion that NOW will launch "sometime in the New Year"is based on a statement from the NOW management. This is the same management team who announced they would start in March/August/October/December 2003. So they have an evident track record of getting it wrong.

I accept there has been lots of excuses, many of them pointed back at Orangeland, but for anyone to think they could start a Low Cost Operration at the home base of the Biggest in Europe, and for Easy to "facilitate" the newcomer borders on criminal naivety and business suicide. NOW have no "right" to get up and running. They need to have a strong enough business case to entice investors into believeing that it can be a success. They need to demonstrate that there is a profitable niche that they can fill. They need to show that there is sufficient room in the sector to carve out their own niche and develop and grow organically.

Sadly they failed to do any of that. If the project was sufficiently funded, the matter of the return of aircraft to easyjet would not have arisen. If they were sufficiently funded, they would have had a break clause in their LOI with the lease company to enable them to switch quickly to another option if their first option was delayed. If they were sufficiently funded, they could have launched their Ticket sales and routes and leased in aircraft if theirs was delayed ( paid for by the lease company assuming the put an agreed delivery date in their contract).

However, none of this happened...and nothing has materially changed. There is no money. And now there is even less credibility.

Your loyalty and enthusiasm is admirable if a little misguided. How long can you survive without an income on the promises of NOW's management team that it'll all come good in the end?

Show's over, people. There's nothing to see here. Move on.


Chillwinston

Noble sentiments. But you have to ask , did NOW REALLY try to do something good. There are many examples of start-ups over the past number of years, particularly since 9/11/01. These start-ups have shown a modest level of success in their particular market. They announced their plans, and followed them through to completion and now offer employment to many people. In other words, they delivered on their promises.

NOW have doen the opposite. They made a big entrance with a lot of promises, and have delivered nothing except a lot of people on the dole for Christmas. So I'm afraid they deserve no credit for "trying" as you put it. If they had been a bit more honest with the people they were employing, I might think differently. Instead they took people out of jobs , and then left them high and dry.

I have heard ( second hand) that the various "Interim " executives were getting paid up front, and all have other things they do anyway.

To answer your question " Could I have done better?" I would answer "YES". On the basis that they did NOTHING...that wouldn't be too hard, would it?

[Honiley]

FLYMATE
I acknowledge your belief and loyalty to your employer. And you should be rewarded for it. But with every posting you make I consider you an incredibly young, naive and even foolish person - I wish you the very best of luck. I hope you find what your looking for elsewhere in your career.

Silly Honely not to notice just how much I know about aviation

I think you are on your own my friend.

The bottom line FLYMATE is, for those of us who have worked for more than 10-15 years within the Uk Airline business, (and i'm sorry but your general grammer and attitude leads me to believe you haven't!) I would have thought 1 in 5 of us around at the moment have all been made redundant. Our main loyalty lies with our families, mortgage payments, car insurance, household bills etc etc - It's very sad if this project has indeed died and disrupted the lives and careers of some very good people....Many of us saw the flaws in the project and jmc-man, for all the abuse he has taken, I believe, has spoken alot of sense.

But FLYMATE - let it go, move on, just like everyone else will....

A very brave effort on the part of NOW management, good on'ya for having a go! Best wishes once again to all those searching for jobs.

[Chillwinston]

"To answer your question " Could I have done better?" I would answer "YES". On the basis that they did NOTHING...that wouldn't be too hard, would it?"

Then I sugest you save your pennies, knock up a business plan and tout your start up idea around the financial markets and lets see jmc-man airways take to the skies.......!

There is a difference between talking a load of S**te and actually have the goujons to do what the people at NOW! have tried to do and as for me, yep, I took the risk and started my own much smaller business and everyday I still have nightmares (for both me and my staff) of it still folding, 13 years since I had the goujons to take a risk

[jmc-man]

Chillwinston, you need to chill.

Now have achieved NOTHING. ZIP. DIDDLY SQUAT. NADA.

What "Goujons" was required to get £300,000 from the South East Develoment Fund....make a lot of promises...and deliver nothing. I don't believe these guys risked anything.

Now, if you were to tell me that the Directors of NOW mortgaged their houses, took all their savings and investments and put them into an airline, got it up and running against all the odds, demonstrated that they were an airline that people WANTED to travel on...and became a respected player in the industry...then they might have achieved something.

Why not ask the senior guys how much of their own money they've put on the table?

I hope you're not too disappointed by the answer.

[Chillwinston]

jmc-man - I am chilling (but do i need to be told that!) maybe you should read the post again, the point im making is AT LEAST THEY TRIED!

I await the inaugural flight of jmc-man airways whom no doubt will be perfect as you obviously have the balls to create something but there again maybe you'll be too busy

[VIKING9]

Now now boys (no pun intended) lets not throw toys at each other. Getting back to the topic in question, maybe the new investors need to look into "why" things didn't pan out as planned. I'd say the first question to be asked would be "do we change the structure of the management team and get into place people who do actually know a thing or 2 about running an airline rather than someone who thinks he does". The plan was flawed right from the start under this leadership. I have to agree with some others on here, jmc-man included, and say that most of the staff and would-be staff have been fed nothing but "wishful thinking".

Let the ex GO people take it over and let them start again. It will work then, rest assured.

[jmc-man]

Chillwinston

If you are subscribing to the notion that it is better to have tried and lost , then never to have tried at all, then I will agree with you. However if you feel that NOW directors deserve some credit for trying and failing, when the only people to have suffered are the staff they encouraged to join a project that was not fully funded, then you and I will plainly disagree. They were wrong...and they deserve condemnation for mistreating people in this manner. They are not the first, nor for that matter is it the first time at least one of the directors did this to others.

Viking 9

I don't think any of the major players in GO would be interested in NOW as a project, except maybe to offer professional advice for a fee. If you get a chance, read Barbara's book. It gives a great insight into what it takes to set up and make a success of a low cost operation. Much of the NOW business proposal flies in the face of the very essence of a low cost operation, and was flawed at conception.

[VIKING9]

jmc-man what I meant was, the current ex GO people who are with NOW now ! Professionals through and through so surely with a change of structure, new heads doing the thinking and acting, it may, just may, work......:confused:

[FEBA]

JMC-Man
I watched this thread from a distance and can therefore offer an abstract view on the nature of it and the obvious trends.

Firstly your inputs and your willingness to take to task, the clearly un-informed is boardering on the obsessional. Or is it, maybe there is a more sinister motive for the negative pictures you so eagerly paint of NOW?
I note that 12800 people have viewed this topic and 160 people have replied (alot of it somewhat inane). That's not too bad an audience if your objective is the elimination of what might be considered to be a business threat.

Low cost is a high risk sector of the market and casualties have already been taken, Buzz, Go. A sure way to survive in this sector is monopoly and paradoxically this is anathema as far as the ethos of low cost travel is concerned. EZY and Ryan have all been dusting off their cheque books in order to create one, will it all end in tears, MYT lite, Baby??? Ummm.

Now as for your good self, and irrespective of your motives, be very careful in what you publish regarding the senior management of Now. Accusing them of being criminally naive and of committing business suicide may be construed as being libellous. Don't tread into the bad lands of the litigeous or you may be joing the rest of us Big Issue sellers , resting between jobs.

I guarantee that the various "Interim " executives were getting paid up front, and all have other things they do anyway.

How can you possibly make such a statement :confused:
Would you kindly furnish us with the evidence to support such a claim. As you are clearly very well informed as to the start up affairs of Now, will you please publish their business plan, cash flow analysis projections, bank guarantees, investment strategy, investor names and financial gearing.

We'd all like to see this in order to convince us that you have been right all along.
Many thanks
FEBA

[jmc-man]

FEBA,

Interesting post.

I don't have to prove or supply evidence for anything I say. It's the joy of an anonymous forum. People can believe or disbelieve, it doesn't bother me, really.

However, the proof of the pudding, as they say, is in the eating. My views on the viability of NOW were clear from last July or thereabouts. But they were, at the end of the day, just my views.

Recent events suggest I have not been too far away from the truth, but only time will really tell.

However, I am happy to edit my post, as it appears to concern you, on the basis that I can't openly supply my sources.

[FEBA]

JMC-Man
I'm sorry but I can't accept this

I don't have to prove or supply evidence for anything I say. It's the joy of an anonymous forum. People can believe or disbelieve, it doesn't bother me, really.

Actually you do. If you don't and hide behind a cloak of anonymity then your intent will be constured as being malicious or perhaps you are just maladroit?

Since your are unable to support your claims and accusations with any evidence, then I must conclude that all of your posts are merely 'smoke and mirrors' and should not be taken seriously by any of your readers.

;)
Merry Christmas
Regards

FEBA

[jmc-man]

FEBA

Since your are unable to support your claims and accusations with any evidence, then I must conclude that all of your posts are merely 'smoke and mirrors' and should not be taken seriously by any of your readers.


Exactly that. Unless of course things I suggest come to pass, in which case my "readers" as you put it can decide whether what I was saying was really "smoke and mirrors".

Strangely enough the same could be said of NOW, as they are unable to support their "Claims" and provide little "evidence" .

Yes, I like the term "smoke and mirrors". Very apt.

[mad_dog]

FEBA

I'm sorry but I can't accept this

Sorry buddy you are just going to have to.

This is a rumours network to be taken with a pinch of salt. You are the one making a big deal out of this issue. If you stand to be prosecuted for be libellous does that not take away your freedom of being anonymous and having your say. Making statements like that then invalidates pprune.

We all have our own minds and can make judgements and decisions for ourselves. As JMC-MAN says 'Proof of the pudding is in the eating'. He is not the one to prove whether NOW are legitimate or not, NOW are! And not just to the industry but to there staff who they have just laid off before Christmas.

So maybe think twice on what your posting, and try not be so anal.

[FEBA]

Mad Dog
You must be familiar with proctology. Thanks for the anal advice, although I haven't a clue what it means.
Rumours, upon which this site owes its creation, are based on the premise that 'there's no smoke without fire', whereas you seem to support those that would 'dabble or play with fire'.
In this case statements have to be backed with evidence, otherwise you cannot complain if I and others wish to treat them with the same contempt as something we accidently trod in.
The scatological connection was not intentional by the way.
Cheers
FEBA

[Zulu]

...and thus this thread, along with so many others, ends up (literally it would seem) in the poo....

[isis]

Seems we have another annoying person FEBA to join FLYMATE. Jmc-man has written some excellent posts, which have made good reading and he has been spot on as far as I am concerned, his main concern is for the staff who have been drawn into the charade known as NOW airlines and who are now looking for other jobs a week away from christmas

Why dont you and Flymate get together and go for a drink instead of posting because you both bore me senseless...the facts are there for all to see.............

[Hawk]

PPRuNe is an anonymous rumours site. However, care must be taken that comments are not construed as libelous. The site is widely read by the aviation industry, members are responsible for what they contribute. Any comment that is considered libelous and that includes deletions, will be removed to our Legal Forum for review by PPRuNe legal experts. This may mean a thread is locked and offenders risk sanctions. Its been a good spirited discussion that has generated a large amount of interest, we ask that posters take a few deep breaths before they post and use a bit of common sense.

Thanks Hawk.

[FEBA]

Isis
If the comments bore you, perhaps you ought not to read them.
Take 10 out of 10 for completely missing the point.
FEBA

[FLYMATE]

On a conciliatry note, I've enjoyed the debate and still hold true to my belief that NOW will get airborne. It has been intriguing to read all the comments, some of which have been quite funny to read.

So we wait and see what 2004 holds for us. Wishing everyone a Merry Christmas and a prosperous New Year to one and all.

[Thunor]

FEBA ,

It is not only isis you bore with your comments!

Perhaps you ought not to post on a topic that is of no interest/concern/relevance to you!(?)

Maybe it would be better if you restricted your pontificating and ramblings to your Mess Hall!(?)

Many good people, pilots, crew, operators...friends and families have been affected by this farce that was NOW - or indeed NEVER!

Like many others before you your attacks on

jmc-man are totally unjustified - throughout this unhappy long ongoing saga he has remained the most eloquent AND knowledgeable poster on this thread - and indeed everything he has said has come to pass!

Not sure who you think you are impressing with your use of long and unfamiliar (to most) words - "proctology" and "scatological" but if anybody needs proctology...........

Take 10 out 10 for completely missing the point of mad-dog 's post - I think (note: nothing libellous about thinking ) he was (politely) trying to say, "XXXXXXXXXX
I doubt he is alone in holding that view!(?)

Of course I could be wrong. ;)


Get a grip Lads. Thunor please keep comments like that off this board. Hogg

[FEBA]

Thunor

Of course I could be wrong

You are and extremely rude too. What do you know of my interest in NOW. :}

Make your judgements by the facts as supported by evidence. I haven't seen any on this thread.

Thank you for your comments
FEBA

[Hogg]

Closing this thread due to the recent off topic remarks and slagging.

Take it somewhere else.

Hogg