Why Does BA Have An Attitude Problem?

[G-Foxtrot Oscar 69]

I have recently had dealings with BA as a PAX.

Of all the airlines I have dealt with they must have the worst attitude and no concept of customer services.

I have spoken to many people who now avoid BA.

So can any one tell me where their bad attitude come from and why in the modern carrier market don't they change.

[Boss Raptor]

I too avoid BA going back to a terrible sequence of flights back in 2001, chaos at Gatwick North terminal etc.

I know one shouldn't address this problem with a broad brush and tar every one of BA's personnel, many do care about their company and their passengers. Bealine will probably answer your question as he is admirable in supporting his company. It has been said that BA's LGW staff are better but unfortunately you cant expect a traveller to say 'well if it is BA LGW I'll use BA and if not I wont'

However it is the public actions of a few that ruin the image of a company very quickly amongst the travelling public, which is then very hard to get back. Whether those 'few' be senior managers or the 'rogue' check-in and passenger handling agents (who seem more than a 'few' to me but still).

I have had very pleasant staff from another airline at Gatwick consistantly telling me of their woes when I travel, underpaid, too few staff etc. About 10 years ago I could have counted on 2 hands all those airlines in the UK that people enjoyed working for and said were a good friendly company, now I can count none...

Unfortunately this has become endemic in our industry and as was being discussed on the VS Sarcastic Remark thread, is not in keeping with a service industry. But the airlines get away with it and it appears that it is not just the staff but the passengers who suffer directly and also indirectly.

PS. Just going to add that the trend rightly or wrongly over the last 10-15 years has been consolidation. No more smaller airlines which are absorbed into the larger carriers. Certainly from experience I have found the general staff atmosphere and customer service in a smaller company is so much better for so many reasons and that they are easier as management to run, control, communicate and get get feedback from...

[G-Foxtrot Oscar 69]

Thats interesting Boss Raptor. It is the same response I have heard so much in regards to BA. It is a shame as it is the UK flag carrier. Great advert for UK business!

I am a captain on a small airline (no names) and I am very keen on the idea that the clients pay may wages! Perhaps thats becausen I owned my own business before I got into this game.

Goo customer services cost nothing. I have always found this from SAS. (Which I don't work for by the way, wish I did).

[AIRWAY]

I never had any problems with BA in the past while traveling with them...

Any airline has it's share of problems...

just my 2 cents.

[Jerricho]

I have found both ends of the spectrum with BA. IMHO, I have put it down to a crew thing. Sometimes you get a good crew who can't do enough for you, othertimes, for what ever reason the high standard their colleagues have set aren't met.

[answer=42]

I've only once had a problem with a BA ground staff. I have found most of Nigel's pals to be very helpful.

But I have noticed:
1. High staff turnover in small stations, where it is noticeable.
2. Once when there were serious multiple flight delays at LHR4, the check-in staff did all the right stuff for me. Then she stood up and leaned over the check-in desk to pat me on the back. No-one does this naturally to a stranger, especially when both are under an element of stress. This was unnatural, pure management rubbish. I felt sorry for her.

answer=42

[PAXboy]

Boss R.About 10 years ago I could have counted on 2 hands all those airlines in the UK that people enjoyed working for and said were a good friendly company, now I can count none...
Unfortunately this has become endemic in our industry ...

I agree that service is down but not that it is endemic to the airline industry alone! If this was the Professional Sea Captains Rumour Network, or the one for Desk Top Computing - the statement would be the same.

As a freelance Telecommunications Consultant, I have been inside many different organisations in the past 13 years. Ranging through retail, banking, oil, transport, agri-business and more.

There is not one where moral is high. There is not one where people feel that they want to give of their best. There is not one where you get some great staff who really turn in the goods that make up for those who are just trying to get through the day.

It is, I suggest, the way of life in the UK at the start of the 21st century.

On a pedantic note:
G-FO 69
It is the same response I have heard so much in regards to BA. It is a shame as it is the UK flag carrier.
They are not the flag carrier. The term (as I understand it) is used by state owned airlines. They are, of course, the largest British airline but they and other's carry the Union flag. Of course, don't ask the PR people of BA, as they are convinced that they are still the flag carrier!

Airlines have replaced the navy (Royal and Merchant) as the thing that politicians like to think of as 'theirs'. :=

[Pax Vobiscum]

Perhaps it's just me, but I've been flying with BA short-, medium- and long-haul for nearly 25 years and I haven't noticed any dramatic decline in service (although I'm sure they're subject to the same "do more with less" management morons that afflict the rest of the western world). Come to think of it, I've never had cause to complain about the service on any flight (not just BA, though I exclude Aeroflot and CAAC where complaining wouldn't have done me much good :p ). Sometimes the food is cr@p and sometimes I don't get a window seat :{, but apart from that I've never had surly service or any reasonable request refused (I try not to make unreasonable ones).

With my limited experience of VS, I like them too, they just don't happen to fly to many of the places I go.

What am I doing wrong? Please advise :D

[HZ123]

Thank you for the votes of confidence from some of the faithfull. Overall our standard is not bad at all and to prove that even the crews are happy to have a pre flight drink.

[newarksmells]

All;

Due to my job in the 1990's, I had over 1 million miles in my United Account at one time. That's how much I flew. Towards the end of the decade I moved to Phoenix for a new job assignment. I flew United of course.

Like many PAX, I had endured my share of delays, good flights and bad flights beforehand and believe or not...SH*T happens. The straw that broke the camel's back was when the United pilots decided they wouldn't fly overtime unless they got a new contract. In a short period of time, 3 years to be precise, United went into bankruptcy. Good !!

The reason I am telling you this is because i booked my15 year old son on a 13:30pm flight from Denver to Phoenix. He was checked in and given a boarding pass and went to the gate. There was no plane however due to lack of pilots.

He called me and I paid top dollar on about 1 hour's notice to fly him down on Frontier...different terminal, tough navigating for a 15 year old who doesn't know airports.

For that reason and that reason alone, I haven't flown United since. I don't want their miles. All I will ever remember is their worthless customer service. It was absolutely no surprise when they went belly-up; They deserved it for the way they treated their passengers. I'D fly BA anyday over United.

Newark

[bealine]

I've looked in on this thread a few times, but find it very hard to reply in defence of BA to a "generalised" topic.

If you advise me what specific areas of BA's Customer Service have let you down, G-FoxtrotOscar 69, I'll see if I can shed some light on the subject?

On general customer service issues, we probably have as many accolades on file as we have complaints. Unfortunately, things go wrong sometimes for a variety of reasons and I'll set out below some issues which can cloud the horizon:

1. We all have "off" days! Perhaps the person with whom you came into contact was suffering! No excuse I know, but humans is humans and our personal feelings have a bearing on how we interact with others, whatever industry you happen to be in and no matter how hard we try to exercise self-control!

2. BA, because of its Nationalised heritage, has rules and regulations to cover every eventuality - whether it be changing a "V" class ticket or delivering a baby by Caesarian section at 36000 feet during turbuence! Because BA management have very rigid interpretation of rules and treat the staff in an appalling way should they dare to use initiative, you will find almost no flexibility. On a positive note, the very rigidity of the staff in sticking to the "rules and regs" means that during an emergency situation, you're probably with the safest possible airline because the staff will carry out the correct procedures to the letter!!!

3. You arrive at the airport nice and relaxed after a morning meeting. You've had breakfast, a couple of coffee breaks and you feel all's well with the world. The check-in agent with whom you have first contact, will probably have been on duty since 5.30 am and have dealt with 2-300 people by lunch-time - probably 5% of these customers will have caused emotively-charged situations of potential conflict (eg excess baggage, overweight/oversized cabin baggage, attempts to change non-changeable tickets, carrying prohibited articles, not having correct visas etc etc)

You are a customer, paying the airline Good British Pounds and you deserve a fresh faced, polite greeting! Believe me, sometimes it's hard for us to deliver!!!

Let me leave you, for the moment, with a couple of recent anecdotes which may help you to understand some of our work attitudes:

1. How to (Almost) Destroy Anglo-American Relations and Give Bealine his UB40

A few weeks ago, I boarded our mid-morning Edinburgh service. A very smart, but obviously tired, American lady handed me her Boarding Card and US Diplomatic Service Passport. "Please can I have your flight ticket" Bealine asked. The Lady replied "It's an E-Ticket - at least it was when I left Houston last night!" Bealine allowed her to proceed on board and rang our ticket supervisor to "associate" the E-Ticket.

"You'll have to offload her and get her back to the ticket desk! She hasn't paid her US$20 change fee. She can't travel until it's been paid" (about £12) I'm sure all PPrune readers would agree it's absolutely bloody ridicuous to make the lady miss her flight for such a paltry amount - especially as she probably wasn't even aware it was owed!

Bealine just put the phone down and pretended he hadn't heard - after all, what's £12 against the £500 fares she'd already paid!

Anyway, a few hours later and Bealine was challenged by the management and informed he would probably be "on a disciplinary" - to which he drew a £20 note from his wallet and stuffed it into said manager's pocket before removing his ID card and throwing it on the desk.

Fortunately for all concerned, common-sense eventually prevailed and Bealine still has his job and hopefully might get to collect his pension!

2. How to (Under) Value Your Staff and Get the Most From Them!

A friend and colleague celebrated 25 years service with BA a few days ago. She had had a personal invitation from the General Manager (BA-LGW) in her handbag for over a week before the presentation. On the day, she asked to be released from check-in in order to attend......."Oh,I don't know," said the supervisor,
"We'll try and spare you later, but I can't guarantee it!"

Anyhow, she was released for half an hour and was taken into a small office, obviously laid out for a meeting later. The General Manager entered, trying vainly to hide his packed-lunch bag, and mumbled something about my colleague's working life - and it became very clear he wasn't talking about her at all, but about someone else. Two minutes later, he said "Well, we'll have a quick photoshoot and move on swiftly!"

Five minutes to mark 25 years service - no gold watch, just a couple of vouchers to spend in a catalogue suspiciously like Argos!

Somehow, I think Sir Tom Farmer of Kwik-Fit would have marked the occasion a tad better - but then, I've never heard complaints about Kwik-Fit's Customer Service either!!!

[radeng]

Back in the early 90's, I definitely found BA long haul pretty poor, with a very 'take it or leave it' attitude. These days, I find it very different, with a real bias towards good customer service, both long and short haul. LGW are especially good. Although the only time I flew BCal into there, it was two flights too many - for me, that was a real crap airline for service! (Also for a friend who flew them to Libya several times)

Of course, it may be that having a BA Gold card helps........

You see enough bullsh*t though, that you can tell there are far too many managers compared to the people up the sharp end - and the sharp end people who matter as far as customers are concerned.

I'm getting withdrawal symptoms - I haven't been on a 'plane this month, and probably won't go anywhere now until early December - and that's likely to be from LGW on BA!

[G-Foxtrot Oscar 69]

In response to the BA crew who have replied I do not beleive the problem lies with individuals. There is a corp. attitude problem.

I find the executive frequent flyers menbers club (I have a gold card by the way) customer relations line shocking. I was told I do not understand how the industry works once. I did point out that I hold an ATPL(A).

I have a strange feeling the problem is based on 2 direct problems:-

1). Used to be flag carrier!

2) Lord King:mad:

BA could realy do with being run by someone like ......... Richard Branson:E for a few years.

I feel sorry for the staff and even more son after hearing about the staff member with 25 yrs service.

I will never complain about BA again. I will complain about BA's bosses.

[zed3]

Having read all this I have to say I don't think it's just BA - All modernday 'management' seems to work this way . On my 25 years service (in ATC) I was called in to the boss who said - "Normally we have champagne on these occasions but I don't have any today , 25 years in the same job , some would say that is a lack of initiative"!!! It went on from there!
Bloody 'managers' no time for them.

[Boss Raptor]

You see Bealine cares and is very aware of the passenger/customer service issue :ok:

Shame about the penpushers in your system who seem intent on screwing up your company Bealine...lack of contact, communication and empathy with both staff and travelling public I think...

Promote Bealine to head the new 'Dept. For Ensuring Company Personnel, Communicate and Empathise With Other Staff and Our Customers'

:cool:

[bealine]

Thank you, Boss Raptor, and fellow PPruners for your support!

Privately, I often wonder if we have one or two people at senior level who are hell-bent on sabotaging our company - it often appears we are committing commercial suicide at times!!!

As one of our Engineers remarked, when questioned about the decision to ground Concorde....."The present BA Board know the cost of everything and the value of nothing!"

[Final 3 Greens]

You need to unsterstand that there are two BAs

#1 - the airline

#2 - the business

In my experience as a frequent traveller, BA are well above the average, on the ground and in the air, for service.
There's always the matter of chemistry between individuals, but generally I have a good experience.

I've never been treated like I was by Air France at CDG the other week, when flying to Rome - the very stroppy check in agent didn't want to be there and had a row with her supervisor about her break times in front of me .... very professional #1 - I suppose they assumed that I couldn't speak French - very professional #2 and then the agent checked my bags through to the final destination without telling me, despite it being self evident that I was nightstopping (arriving at 21:30 departing at 13:30 the next day) - very professional #3

On the other hand, there is the BA business which suffers from the Peter principle as much as anyone.

[MarkD]

bealine

keep up the good work, everything I hear about AC makes me keep flying BA.

Score so far:
BA Blue membership
10 UK-Canada sectors booked as Y/M
2 x W sector upgrade :D
1 x J sector upgrade :ok:

here's hoping for another on the 22nd! (greedy sod aren't I)

final 3 greens

did you greet the check in staff at CDG in French or just hand over the ticket? I prefer to "catch" check-in staff with honey rather than vinegar :D

[Final 3 Greens]

Mark D

Please explain the process for greeting two people who are having a heated argument when you arrive at the desk, are calling each other a series of unrepeatable words and who choose not to acknowledge your presence because their dispute is more important to them than your wish to check in?

BTW, I'm a Skyteam gold card holder, which is meant to mean enhanced service. Compare this to your good experiences with BA as a Blue level card holder (i.e. bottom tier.)

Although I can't always fly 'my' airline, when I do, they are consistent, professional and a good advertisement for the UK - keep it up Bealine and co :D

[PAXboy]

With regards to upgrades by FFM card holders ... we have discussed this before in here. Friends of mine that belong to BA Exec, but live overseas, land up with more upgrades than those of us that are based here.

One of my friends has his Exec card based overseas with a friend and often gets better redemption deals and so forth.

As to 'best airline' or BA's problem? A simple example, in this thread F3G was highly irritated by AF, whereas, in a thread the other week, someone was singing their praises on all fronts.

In a business that has hundreds of flights each day, each staffed by differnt people of different backgrounds and cultures and used by different people (of ditto), consensus is going to be difficult to find.

I know that BA offer very high quality service and am always delighted to board their aircraft. However, due to the attitude of the management and the Dirty Tricks brigade, they will remain my second choice of carrier.

[Final 3 Greens]

PAXboy

Just to make it clear, I fly Air France a lot and the experience is usually fine - so I have nothing against them, but I also fly BA a lot too and the point I was making is that I have never received treatment like that in several hundred flights with BA and would be extremely surprised if I ever did.

Of course, sometimes you will find a slightly grumpy check in agent or CC, but colleagues arguing (and using foul language) in front of a customer and then leaving that customer without luggage overnight is something else altogether :mad:

BA (the airline), is in my experience very consistently professional in service delivery, despite the best efforts of BA (the business.)

[Coconuts]

Well I flew United recently & in general found them okay. Being interested in aviation & chatty in disposition I've a habit of sometimes asking other people what airline they used & how they found them. I was surprised when a British couple told me they flew BA & one pax was allowed to destroy their whole flight for them without intervention or chastisement from the cabin crew. One, he stripped down to the waist, two, he was loud & using vulgar language, can't remember whether they said he was inebricated or not but giving the rest of behaviour it's not unlikely he was. I was surprised in this day & age post 9/11 that a pax could get away with such disruptive behaviour on an aircraft. I can guarantee you if I'd been on board, his ignorant behaviour would not have been let away with for long as one UAL pax found out very quickly.

[Final 3 Greens]

Oh gee, how awful.

it was sure lucky for that evil doer that you weren't on the flight.

[bealine]

........the Dirty Tricks brigade

Funny.....the mastermind behind that team, the "Helpliners" as they were known, was one Barbara Cassini, who I believe is now in a rather senior position at EasyJet !!!

Does Sir Richard realise that, I wonder?:oh:


Oh gee, how awful.

it was sure lucky for that evil doer that you weren't on the flight.


Do I detect the subtle hint of sarcasm?

Careful now, or Coconuts'll do you!

(That's how they used to castrate camels in the old days - two cocounts crashed against the poor animal's testimonials and....it was all over! Mind you, it didn't hurt - as long as you kept your thumbs out of the way!!!)

:p

[Aksai Oiler]

This thread seems to have jumped a lot since I wanted to stick my nose into it but, I would, like to say as a Gold Card Holder who lives abroad"

1] I'm still waiting for my upgrade - even after 65 flights with BA and it's franchise's this year alone - I have not had one, and quite frankly I don't really expect one.

2] I believe service has declined over the last 10 years. The catering has deterioated, but I guess that's just the way the business has gone (as it's the same with KLM, Lufthansa and don't even mention Iberia & Alitalia)

3] You can't blame the crew - most BA crews still have their sense of humour and are very professional.

4] As a full fare paying PAX, I'd like one day to see a Senior BA Manager sat on a flight and speak with all the PAX - instead of one of those anonymous survey's which are never given to Frequent Flying PAX (or appear to be never given to us). I'm reading Ms Cassani's book about Go at the mo, she states that she regularly went on Go's flights to gauge customer opinion - whether it's accurate or not I think it's a good idea.

5] My BA Gold Card is worthless as it appears to mean nothing these days.

I fly three diffrent airlines to get to work in Kazakhstan - Arkia:sad: BA :\ and Astreaus :ok: By far the better service provider is surprisingly Astreaus, although I still prefer my Club World seat.

[MarkD]

Final 3 - Yikes! Did you mention this to any other AF people?

Aksai - don't know about BA but a mate is an EI gold holder - when they lost his bags during the Glasgow snowstorm in 2001 no sign for a few days. He rang the gold reservations line and said "I know this isn't lost bags but I'm in deep sh!t" - sorted pdq, including a promise to refund expenses on emergency purchases.

All my TA flights involve an Aer Lingus run, so both of my WT+ upgrades were handed to me by EI staff at ORK, though maybe they were computer assigned. The J upgrade was during a blizzard at YYZ so they may have been packing them in to accommodate cancellations from previous flights. I do try to buy on ba.com and maybe that helps as they don't have to pay agent fees. I am still p!ssed about 25% miles - rather too deep a cut - but upgrades are a good way to keep me happy, and thus I tell my family to fly BA over EI or AC.

[PAXboy]

bealine: Funny.....the mastermind behind that team, the "Helpliners" as they were known, was one Barbara Cassini, who I believe is now in a rather senior position at EasyJet !!! Well, well, well, that is interesting. Although, I am fairly certain that she is not with EZY. When 3i took the money, she started the process and then ducked out. She took time out and wrote the book. She is now chair of the London bid to hold the Olympics at some point in the future. (Just to nudge this off-thread, I do hope they fail.)

When Cassani was running GOE, I got a free return trip MUC-STN at her instigation - and they had done nothing wrong to warrant it! I did not get to meet her and it's a story that I told in PPRuNe many moons ago.

I have not read the book Dirty Tricks, I think it would make me too angry. I have read enough to know that they were outside every law and any sense of decency.

I agree with F3G that the BA airline is fine, the BA mgmt are not.

[bealine]

Okay, I stand corrected. I didn't know Barbara had gone when Go was absorbed into easyJet . The term "masterminded" was a little strong actually, Lord Marshall of Knightsbridge (plain old Colin Marshall in those days) dangled the puppet-strings and Barbara Cassani danced to Colin's tune to Sir Richard Branson's (and other carriers as well) detriment!

It was often whispered in dark corridors when Barbara was given the job of heading up "Go" that it was her reward for "services rendered" !!!

PAXboy, let your blood cool down! "Dirty Tricks" does make an interesting read.

From a BA insider's point of view, I can't get to grips with who, or what, actually turns the airline into the arrogant corporate animal it is. The people I work with are great and the management appear to be lacking in commercial awareness and communication skills, but they're not nasty people (not all of 'em anyway!) - so who or what destroys the airline???

Answers on a 160Gb hard disk please to..........

[Globaliser]

I reckon that many observers would say that BA hasn't "turned into" an arrogant corporate animal - it has just never ceased being one even though it was privatised all those years ago. You get these comments every time there's a problem like the T1 walkouts - and otherwise inexplicable incidents like that make sense if you timewarp yourself back into the 1970s (management out of touch with the shop floor, staff feeling stitched up, etc. etc.)

[Aksai Oiler]

Bealine - The BA management are definitely arrogant, the staff may not be, but at the end of the day it's what your customer's think that counts and BA is service company.

BA has to consider whether it wants to keep it's loyal PAX, and many of regular PAX are very loyal - me included, or become an English version of Ryanair with some Frills.

When I lived in Nigeria I always wanted to fly BA simply because there was always a sense of relief about being in a civilised environment once again. The same today I always prefer to leave Tel Aviv with BA rather than El Al, Lufthansa, KLM or Air France, not for the same reasons though. I also realise that BA has to stay in business in what is becoming a cut throat environment - it's a fine balance.

MarkD - nice story, maybe one day my upgrade will come true !!

[Final 3 Greens]

Mark D

No, I didn't tell anyone at AF, since I didn't realise that she had checked my case through until I was at Rome and it did not appear at the carousel.

Then I filed a 'lost baggage' report with Alitalia (another skyteam member), who investigated and explained that it is an IATA rule that baggage can be checked through if the next sector leaves in 24 hours or less. (They did, however, suggest that it was not too clever to do this without asking the customer when it was obvious that a nightstop would be involved.)

The prob. was that it would have taken 1-2 hours to retrieve the case from the transit area (this being circa 0000z.)

So not worth making an issue of at the end of the day.

[bealine]

Just to update you, the internal Staff Forum has been focussing this week on "How British Airways can close the gap (ever-widening gulf actually!) between high passenger loads but falling revenue."

Strangely enough, I was reminded of this thread and have fed back a direct link (and if anyone who knows it reveals my true identity to BA management, I'm dead!!!) which I hope will help BA to return to the services that kept the likes of Aksai Oiler loyal to us!!!

I believe the falling revenues are a direct result of BA's (the company) attitudes and actions, which cause any company to tailspin:

1. Customers hacked off - go elsewhere.
2. Reduce prices, win customers back.
3. Cut costs, customers notice drop in service standards.
4. Go back to stage 1!

As suggestions to get 'em going, I've suggested BA should make its mind up whether it wants to take on easyJet and Ryanair head to head or totally divorce itself from them by giving far superior quality - on the promise that passengers will pay slightly higher fares if they can physically see the benefits the extra cost brings. (I'm thinking of Mr X who travels from Milford Haven at 02.00 hrs to LGW every other week for the early Frankfurt flight and Mr Y who travels from Truro weekly and have lost their traditional English breakfasts - but still pay the same fares as before!)

Aksai Oiler, perceptively, stated what I've suspected for some time - we're becoming a half-way house between no-frills and full-service which nobody really appreciates! (Low spending pax expect full BA service of yesterday and feel cheated when they don't get it, high spending pax aren't receiving the catering and service they got yesterday and feel cheated - lose/lose all round!)

We also need to get our Senior Management to go walkabout! Rod Eddington needs to sit in 33B or 34J and talk to "those what pays us our dosh!" I note on Continental's Flyer Talk pages that their CEO does just that on a regular basis at their Houston Hub!
Somehow, with the stuffed shirts on the BA Board, I think I'm breaking wind against thunder!!!

Thank you, Aksai Oiler, Globaliser et al who have remained loyal through thick and thin! May your God reward you with seats at the "sharp end"!

;)

[Behind the Curtain]

I understand PAXboy's comments about the dirty tricks era, but BA remains my favourite carrier for a number of reasons; the main one is their people, and I'd like to add a few words of support in this thread. I've never encountered anything less than good service, even when it is in a bag. Other reasons are the excellent on-line check-in and an incident last year where I was allowed to run to the gate although *very* late :O That sort of thing creates a lot of goodwill, and BA was lucky that they were handing out questionnaires on that flight.

Many companies succeed despite the management rather than because of it. Many of you will know better than I if that's true of BA.

Maybe I should add "Dirty Tricks" to my Christmas list...

[Final 3 Greens]

Hi Bealine

The only beef I have about BA is the Executive Club, which drives rational pax away from the airline.

I fly about 2 sectors a week on average, mostly around Europe.

As I work in the professional services sector, the usual convention is that the customers travel policy applies. Most of my customers are large companies (household names) and the policy is typically less than 5 hours economy, more than 5 business or enhanced economy.

With BA, this gets me airmiles (which I don't really want, since heaven is spending time at home), but no priority check in or lounge access.

With Skyteam, 30 sectors per year earns a gold card that gives both the above (although I have a Priority Pass for lounge access anyway.)

You may be surprised (or not) that the difference between using economy check in and business check in is a very powerful incentive to the frequent flyer :-)

I still rate BA as the most consistently professional airline I use (although LH are pretty good too), but get fed up of receiving emails from the Exec Club manager telling me how great it is, when in fact it's a sales prevention club :mad:

Because I travel heavily to France (where Priority Pass does not work too well) and the Czech Republic, Skyteam will get about 40 sectors this year from me, whereas BA could have had those.

I realise that I'm only one pax, but the compound effect of the policy across the exec club membership (and beyond) on the BA business must be significant.

If you think anyone in BA would be interested in this info, please PM their email address to me and I'll be pleased to point it out direct. Or PM me for my 'real' indentity and they can contact me...

[Globaliser]

Final 3 Greens: Have you had a look at the Qantas Frequent Flyer scheme? You will earn status credits as well as miles in economy. If you fly 40 short haul full fare economy tickets a year on BA you would easily earn enough credits to get priority check in and lounge access when flying BA (and all the other oneworld benefits from the middle tier). There's a technical requirement to fly 4 QF sectors a year to qualify for any status but that isn't in fact generally enforced.

bealine: I stick around because the service is generally good, and usually better than most others, but for me the service is in some respects good only because QF is (literally) infinitely more generous with status than BA on the fares that I pay. It happens that being a member of QF happens to work very well for me.

But in discount economy, the difference between flying BA without status and, say, *A with status would almost certainly have me switching over to them (like F3G's reasoning). Before the BA/QF/OW FF alliance thing started working for me, the balance wasn't always in BA's favour. Management really need to have a think about this part of the EC.

[Final 3 Greens]

Globaliser

Thanks for the tip, but I seldom pay full fare (or more strictly speaking) my clients' travel agents do not, as they have corporate deals.

This is not a barrier for Skyteam, but it is for BA.

[Globaliser]

Well, then, 40 discount economy BA short hauls a year would certainly get you the priority check in, and then the equivalent of £100 a year for Qantas Club membership would get you lounge access on top. It's how I did it for years - and how I was resigned to doing it forever - until I suddenly found myself popping over into the next tier one year.

It may not make sense for your travel patterns, but it certainly did for me as BA/QF covers almost everything that I want to do.

[Cliff]

BA is actually one of my favorite airlines. I have never had any problem with BA. Staff and crew are always very polite and helpful!

[HZ123]

As a staff member thank you for the last vote of confidence. BA is one of the finest airlines that you can fly on. Despite many problems from exterior sources beyond our control and too many generated from within, BA has continued to give a consistent product at a good price.

BA has the best trained Flight and Cabin Crew and continues to invest in its ground services. Our engineering is second to none.

Presently BA at times appears to lack direction but be assured once we undergo the next round of cuts we will be back on course in the next coiuple of years.

[PAXboy]

bealineRod Eddington needs to sit in 33B or 34J and talk to "those what pays us our dosh!" I note on Continental's Flyer Talk pages that their CEO does just that on a regular basis at their Houston Hub! One of the snippets a few years ago that maintained my confidence in Virgin Atlantic: A VS pax found himself sitting next to RB and his wife in 'Y', whilst LHR to HKG.

RB is quoted: "We decided at the last minute to witness the handover of Hongkong. Whilst we were able to get an hotel room, we were too late to book seats on the flight."

How easy would it be for the top boss to pre-empt check in for Upper or P.E.?? I suspect 'all too easy' would be the case.

Once again - I love flying BA, the service is always good and the maintenance programme fills me with confidence. Pity about the management but then, you can say that about almost any major company/organisation. The larger they get, generally, the worse they get.

[BEagle]

ba has some of the finest and most loyal flight crews, cabin crews and maintenance in the business. Of that I am sure.

But I will NEVER fly with them whilst King and Marshall are still paid a single brass farthing by the company and its shareholders. The spectre of the Dirty Tricks era will continue to hang over ba whilst those 2 - and others - are still part of it.


And I darn well hope that someone in ba management does get to read this. You've lost around 30 flights to another airline since April from me alone.....

[bealine]

[...But I will NEVER fly with them whilst King and Marshall are still paid a single brass farthing by the company and its shareholders

King's gone, now Marshall's announced news of his retirement. Presumably, you would view the Pension Fund as a separate entity to BA and it's shareholders?

I quite understand your views on Dirty Tricks - absolutely despicable - but it does make you wonder what other large corporations have done, and got away with, in the past!!!

[HZ123]

Lord King cannot go if he is president for life or has LM assumed this role. These petty offences ocurred a long time ago I do not think they will be to worried.

[BEagle]

'President for life' sounds like something more appropriate to the dictator of a banana republic......

'Dirty Tricks' was most certainly NOT a series of 'petty offences'. It reflected ba's corporate attitude and an urge for total dominance which would stop at nothing in trying to destroy Virgin Atlantic. Hence while King and Marshall have any executive status in the company, how can one have any confidence that the cancer of the 'Dirty Tricks' mentality has been fully removed?

Other than receiving a pension, the 'Dirty Tricks' practitioners should hold no status within ba nor enjoy any other benefits when they finally retire.

[Send Clowns]

I have flown several times with BA, from trips across the pond 11 years ago to a shuttle to Glasgow. Always felt they were good - prefered the old food, but apparently the new-style sarnies and wraps are popular, so I have to accept that they cannot specially treat me. My girlfriend was on the last trip, to Prague, and she dislikes flying and has rarely done so but was very impressed with the flight and the staff.

On the other hand I have no complaints about any of the other airlines I have flown with either. I don't think it is that I am easy to please, I just cannot think of anything that has happened that the personnel could reasonably be expected to have handled better. The only exception was TAP not keeping my luggage with me or getting it to me in one piece quickly, but they had been good earlier in the day when I had missed the flight to balance that out.

I have flown a few non-UK airlines, and they were not bad but only Air New Zealand could reasonably argue a case for being better than BA by my experience.

[Boss Raptor]

BA Comparisons...recent experience

BA - LON-MAD Apex return, good bucket shop pricing, £10 cheaper than everyone else including their One World partner Iberia, Iberia better seat pitch, real food (full meals...good too) not 'in a bag' junk, better attitude from staff...I fly IB or Air Europa

BA - LON-MOW Apex return much more expensive than Aeroflot, crap attitude from 767 crews who think they should night stop and therefore have the hump, fly Aeroflot better price better service real food, better deal...Aeroflot £180, BA £350.

BA are not in my opinion providing the service and tariff combination that the 'regular traveller' requires :ok:

All to Bealine for suggesting that his management do a few trips and sample what their customers think/want :)

[Aksai Oiler]

Boss Raptor

I was under the impression IBE were supposed to have switched to PAX paying for meals in Economy as of the Winter Season - I read this in El Pais in September. Can you advise me whether this is true, my last flight in Spain was with BA(GB) from TFN back to LGW.

I also found Iberia crew aloof and in many cases rude, particularly on Domestic. I remember asking for a cup of coffee, when I got it was stone cold and I complained - the remark from the Stewardess - "You think this is a coffee shop !"

Can't say much for Air Europa, but I also found Spanair pretty awful too. Used to fly them to Malabo.......

However, I fully agree with your statement that BA are not providing what "Regular Travellers" require. I know if I ever sat next Mr E. on the plane he would know about it.

Anyway, have to go, it's been snowing for the last 10 hours and I'd better leave the office before I get stuck here.

Oiler

[Boss Raptor]

I believe that IB were introducing reduced catering on domestic flights but understood this did not apply on the international services (but never saw an exact definition European, Longhaul etc.), however have not been on IB for some 6 months as mainly using Air Europa out of LGW, the MAD-BCN 'Shuttle' is pretty sparse.

Using IB as an example same as for SU, neither are perfect but in my opinion (stressed 'my') are overall a better picture for the regular traveller

On my own experience with friends and colleagues comments the likes of Emirates are so popular with 'regular travelers' (meaning everyone from weekend breakers, holiday travellers to businessmen who travel regularly but not necessarily in Business class) because they have that extra plus on the service/quality/product and people remember the flight as good...and so the likes of Emirates get repeat bookings across a wide demographic scope of passengers.

It's not all about pricing and for the sake of a £30-50 saving on European services people will not go LCC and do choose to pay that extra to travel on a good Full Service carrier - as Bealine states the problem appears to be those carriers who sit in the middle, by keep their prices up at a premium above LCC (however small) and reducing the level/standard/quality of service/product to that of an LCC, as BA have done on European routes.

Just to bring this into perspective my annual air travel expenditure is approx. £18k split between long haul and european flights, across my colleagues and our staff transport etc. we as a group/company spend approx. £150k per year. Small fry corporate account it may well be but all us 'Small Fry' add up to a significant figure which can any operator afford to lose :confused:

Once you have upset and/or driven a customer to seek alternative carriers it's very very difficult to get them back, regardless of how many improvements you can promise them you've made...once the damage is done it lasts a long long time and is very difficult to undo :*

[HZ123]

BA will continue to address many of the issues stated. One problem we have had like many others relates to lack of fiscal resources to continually provide customer service and product improvment training.

Long term though the going is getting tougher particularly when Emirates et al introduce the A380 with a complete upper deck of 150 Club pax at prices that I doubt others can match, especially if you are operating 744/77.

It would not suprise me or many others of us at BA to see us place an order for the A380 in the near future if fiscal improvment occurs. It may well turn out that you cannot operate without the A380.

[bealine]

It would not suprise me or many others of us at BA to see us place an order for the A380 in the near future if fiscal improvment occurs. It may well turn out that you cannot operate without the A380.


I sincerely hope BA management will address these issues before it's too late!!! I suspect, HZ123 that you're in BA management somewhere - if so, good on you for taking these issues back with you!

....Shame you view "Dirty Tricks" as petty - There are quite a number of ex-Dan-Air chappies and chappesses, ex-Laker guys and gals, ex-BCal lads and lassies (all of whom were done to death by BA!) who would vehemently disagree that "Dirty Tricks" was a minor matter!!!

The Plucky Virgin was the one who tackled the mighty BA dinosaur and lived to tell the tale!

[spiney]

For more than a dozen years I've been travelling business class on a variety of carriers long-haul between UK and the Carribbean/Latin America, either direct or via the US - I've tried 'em all, doing about 10 or 12 round trips a year. My criteria for selection is:

1. Reliability of service and connections.
2. Decent Carry-On Baggage allowance.
3. Type of Aircraft / Seat.
4. Cabin Service.
5. Frequent Flyer Programme.

I travel BA more than all the rest put together - stunning reliability in spacious, comfortable cabins with professional service from people who put up with far more tantrums from some passengers than I'd ever put up with.

Well done BA - does exactly what it sez on the tin...

[Final 3 Greens]

Well said Spiney.

Even though I hold Gold Card status with Skyteam, I believe that BA are the most consistently professional airline of all the ones i use.

Such a shame that the 'sales prevention club' (aka Executive club) is so cr@p.

[DanAir1-11]

2 words - L O R D K I N G

Until the shackles are completely removed from his totalitarian days, the spectre of the man shalt haunt thee!

Some fantastic people with the org however, have many freinds with whom i am still in regular contact.

Beleive there was a previous post not so long ago that went into the specifics.

Regards

[slim_slag]

Lord King
Herb Kelleher
Michael O'Leary

If that isn't proof positive that attitude trickles down, I don't know what is!

[FMC]

For what it's worth, I have found BA staff a mixed bunch but on the whole, I can only praise them. I recently had a personal problem when I arrived in JFK from LHR (I was advised that my business partner was in a coma and dying). I explained the circumstances to BA staff and was immediately given a seat on the 6pm flight BA212 to LHR. The staff at JFK couldn’t have been more understanding and compassionate.

I was escorted to the lounge where Kevin? the manager went beyond the call of duty to help me. He suggested that I take a shower to freshen up and arranged for me to dine pre-flight offered drinks and fussed over. I was then again escorted to the A/C and once on board the seat in Club world beside me was 'blocked' so that I would not be disturbed. The crew all were aware of my problem and all showed maximum respect and sensitivity. Back in LHR the agent suggested that I visit the arrivals lounge to shower and have my clothes pressed and grab some breakfast prior facing the M4 with my driver.

Sadly, my partner died but maximum respect to those at BA that helped and showed why they still lead the field in seamless customer care. I won't forget!

:ok: :ok:

[Sunshine Express]

To Boss Raptor

Quote : About 10 years ago I could have counted on 2 hands all those airlines in the UK that people enjoyed working for and said were a good friendly company, now I can count none...

So which none UK airline are you a director for, or have you contributed personally to the above ?

Very interested in your reply............

[Boss Raptor]

10 years ago I was like many others a staff 'mushroom' (not BA) caught up in the new era of commercialism and executive management that did/does not appear to care for staff quality of work or quality of life, customer service and loyalty of both staff and customer...and thoroughly hated it.

I would like to think I learn't valuable lessons from that and (like to think) I act accordingly now. Although not a magical panacea for every commercial environment/business plan and not the choice of some boards/shareholders. This era (problems) and these ideals are not and never have been just limited to the airline industry...as others have said.

[Morrissey]

You know how it is as you grow up - somehow BA is seen as the airline to fly with, don't want to trust those foreigners with your life.

Had a few trips to the states and Oz by the time I was 22 - all with BA. Then it canme to the meal.

Chewing through the usual lump of chicken I almost chocked on a cube of glass, about a cetimetre square, that had somewhow got into the meal. Now I'm aware BA are not directly preparing the food but I do expect them to take responsibility for what they serve up. On calling an attendant over I was told it was not possible that this could have been in my food - effectively I was being accused of planting it.

This was a real shock to the system and since then (thirteen years ago) I have never flown with them again. During that time my job has required monthly travel - unfortunately every time I specify no BA.

Then to cap it all they killed Concorde.

Contrast that with Lufthansa. Delayed flight out of LHR resulted in a missed connection at Frankfurt on to Tokyo. Flown striaght down to Paris and put on the next AF flight. On return upgraded to Business without even asking. They get repeat business.